New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think we are in bad shape at WR. We have proven talent in Edelman, La Fell and Amendola(even though he is injury prone). We have Dobson who looked better as the year went on and should improve again this year, then we have Thompkins who could be a surprise this year if he improves on his rookie year.

And then of course we have Gronk if he can stay healthy.

I think Brady has enough targets if they can stay healthy.

I agree, I don't think we are in bad shape at WR, but I don't want to see us get top heavy with slot WR's. My main concern stems from Dobson, I won't bore you with the medical detail. But there is particular type of foot fracture that has ruined many athletes careers. Regardless of how scans look and rehab goes, we won't know how successfully Dobson has healed until he can get back out and compete at 100% intensity. Take some high impact pressure from start off accelerations, jumps and landings ect.

La Fell was a good move and I thought it would be wise to look at draft options to cover Dobson. With Edelman, Boyce and Amendola I think we have more than enough WR's that can play slot. So drafting a 5'7" slot WR makes no sense to me. Unless we trade Amendola, a guy who still gets more money than a superior WR in Edelman. But I will be happy if we make the moves that JarMarcus thinks we might make for UDFA's.

Sorry to be cynical but barring a miracle, I can't see Gronk lasting a season. Three seasons in a row we lost him with an ankle - broken arm - ACL. Now if we use him sparingly, then with a bit of luck he might last. But I'm not holding my breath over it.

Son Of A Vidic

Our UDFA moves so far....

Tyler Beck TE Bowling Green
Roy Finch RB Oklahoma
James Morris LB Iowa
Travis Hawkins DB Delaware
Justin Jones TE East Carolina
Deylan Buntyn, DL North Carolina State
Asa Watson TE North Carolina State
Tyler Ott LS Harvard
Cameron Gordon LB Michigan

TE Justin Jones is pretty intriguing, he's a monster at 6'8" and 277Lbs. Has a huge vertical jump, A 400Lb Bench Press and a 340Lb Clean & Jerk. No significant straight line speed, but could we turn him into a red zone powerhouse?

kryogen

Of the UDFA's, I am interested in finch, Morris, Jones and Asa Watson, mainly because he is Ben Watsons brother

Could develop a couple of good players in that bunch I feel

Son Of A Vidic

Haven't really had a chance to have an in depth look at all our draftees and UDFA's, so I'll comment on that another time. But what I was thinking about was Dobson, Boyce and KT. Firstly I hope Dobson can make a 100% recovery from his foot injury. But I'm excited about this three kids for the 2014 season. Dobson and KT in particular were thrown into the deep end last year and I think they did really well.

People are aware of Dobson's foot injury but quite a few fans seem to forget about KT's nasty landing on his hip/hip abductor he had around week 11 (I think). Prior to these injuries, both lads seemed to be finding a nice groove in the offense and you could see Brady was beginning to trust them. So it was predictable to see their production drop after the injuries.

So all things considered and if they are healthy, I think they could have a big year two jump in 2014. They really had a baptism of fire last year and the real positive thing was, you could see them get comfortable with the offense. Now looking ahead to the training camps, these kids will be matched up the master himself - Revis and that other tough sob in Browner. So I've no doubt they will learn a lot from these tough match ups and it will make them much better WR's going into the 2014 season.

Hazys

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Our UDFA moves so far....

Tyler Beck TE Bowling Green
Roy Finch RB Oklahoma
James Morris LB Iowa
Travis Hawkins DB Delaware
Justin Jones TE East Carolina
Deylan Buntyn, DL North Carolina State
Asa Watson TE North Carolina State
Tyler Ott LS Harvard
Cameron Gordon LB Michigan

TE Justin Jones is pretty intriguing, he's a monster at 6'8" and 277Lbs. Has a huge vertical jump, A 400Lb Bench Press and a 340Lb Clean & Jerk. No significant straight line speed, but could we turn him into a red zone powerhouse?

Add Deontae Skinner LB Mississippi State.


So thats 3 LBs and 3 TEs. Two areas not addressed in the draft and the thinnest on the roster. Looks like a great opportunity for UDFAs to make the team.

Hazys

FYI Asa Watson's older brother is Benjamin

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

Of the UDFA's, I am interested in finch, Morris, Jones and Asa Watson, mainly because he is Ben Watsons brother

Could develop a couple of good players in that bunch I feel

Hazys wrote: »

FYI Asa Watson's older brother is Benjamin

Do I not exist here?

Son Of A Vidic

kryogen wrote: »

Do I not exist here?

And here was me thanking Hazys for Watson his post and not you, so my bad. In my defense, I was half way through your post, started having visions of Van Gaal and went into United mode.

JaMarcusHustle

Here's what Bill had to say about each of our draft picks. As usual, the common denominator seems to be versatility.

DT Dominique Easley (1st round, 29th overall) -- "He's a versatile guy who has played different positions along the defensive line. He's a very disruptive player and he showed up against good competition; a very explosive player. In college, I would say his stats might have been a little bit deceiving because a lot of times he was the disruptive person on the play, but he wasn't the guy who ended up making the tackle, or it wouldn't be on the stat sheet. I think he has a good knack for that. He's smart, very instinctive, and definitely into football; an 'all-in' guy. There's not much to not like about him."

QB Jimmy Garoppolo (2nd round, 62nd overall) -- "He's got a lot of qualities that we admire in a quarterback. He's been a very productive player -- little different level of competition, but hopefully he can make that adjustment. The general qualities a quarterback needs to have are being able to manage the game, being able to do what the team needs to win, be accurate, be smart and be productive. He's done those things."

C Bryan Stork (4th round, 105th overall) -- "Most of the experience is at center, but I think he has some position flexibility. Physically, he has a pretty good skill set. He's strong, he can run. You can see him get out in front on screens and perimeter plays, that kind of thing."

RB James White (4th round, 130th overall) -- "Versatile guy, both running and receiving, a good player in the kicking game. I'd say there are a lot of similarities to [Shane] Vereen -- size-wise [5-foot-9 1/8, 204 pounds], skills-wise, production. I'd say he's a guy who has shown he has four-down value."

OT Cameron Fleming (4th round, 140th overall) -- "Right tackle. Big kid who played against a lot of good competition. They run the ball a lot and they run a very conventional offense compares to what some of the offenses are in college football, so you can kind of see him do a lot of the things that we see in the National Football League."

RG Jon Halapio (6th round, 179th overall) -- "Has been pretty much exclusively a guard. Big, physical, very strong guy. Powerful player."

DE Zach Moore (6th round, 198th overall) -- "He's got a lot of football in front of him. Lower level of competition there [in Division II] but he stood out and has a real good future if he can come in and develop some of the skills he has. I think he has a real interesting skill set -- he's long, has good quickness, good burst/get off the ball. But he needs a lot of work. It's probably going to take a little bit of time, but we'll see."

DB Jemea Thomas (6th round, 206th overall) -- "Played in a number of different spots -- in the kicking game, a little safety, a little nickel, some corner. It looks like he's got the ability to compete at all those spots. Versatile guy, smart guy. Really a four-down type player. He's an interesting guy."

WR Jeremy Gallon (7th round, 244th overall) -- "Small guy but compact and explosive. He's had a lot of big plays. Real top traits, hard-working kid, very competitive player. He's good with the ball in his hands, good after the catch. He can make people miss. I wouldn't say this is a specialty player and you need specialty plays for him. I think he can go out there and play receiver."

Hazys

http://www.patriots.com/media-center/videos/Exclusive-Go-inside-the-draft-room/3de48f4e-8992-438b-9b01-b9648fa22ddd

Bill: You're a New England Patriot & you're fcuking welcome
Dominique: Oh my god! thank you for the opportunity..blah blah

In Bill's head: fcuk this noise, i've draft boards to be looking at


Bill couldn't hand the phone off quicker to Bob Kraft lol

Bill has no time for unproven rookies emotions.

Son Of A Vidic

Hazys wrote: »

http://www.patriots.com/media-center/videos/Exclusive-Go-inside-the-draft-room/3de48f4e-8992-438b-9b01-b9648fa22ddd

Bill: You're a New England Patriot & you're fcuking welcome
Dominique: Oh my god! thank you for the opportunity..blah blah

In Bill's head: fcuk this noise, i've draft boards to be looking at


Bill couldn't hand the phone off quicker to Bob Kraft lol

Bill has no time for unproven rookies emotions.

Saw that on the Pats site alright when I was checking out the draft war room. I thought Bill was funny, he might as well have said ...

"Welcome to the Patriots, now get here and do you job."

The Big Easy

Andre Johnson is looking for a trade, would seem a good fit for you especially with the Texans supposed interest in Mallet.

My favourite season was the Patriots 16-0 with Moss and Brady lighting it up. While Johnson is not as quick as Moss it would be the first time since then that Brady has had an elite target at WR.

Would love him at the Rams, he would be just the type of big bodied receiver we are lacking but he's looking for an immediate contender and although we're on the up, I don't think we could convince him of that.

He would however at the age of 33 give Brady a legitimate shot at one more ring if you could pull it off. I for one hope it happens.

Son Of A Vidic

I'd gladly take him and in terms of quality, ability and threat, he would be the best WR we've had since Moss. And dear God doesn't Brady deserve it. Make the trade and I'd gladly send them Amendola also.

BizzyC

I doubt they'd want Amendola, but yeah I'd trade them Mallet and throw in Amendola for free...

AJ would add so much to our offense, hopefully BB is taking a good look at the options.

JaMarcusHustle

He's a $10 million cap hit. Trading Amendola wouldn't clear any cap room for us, and Mallett would be a minimal figure cleared. There's no way we pick up Johnson without clearing a lot of room or getting him to restructure.

BizzyC

Based on what he's saying, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd be willing to restructure to gain the chance at a ring.

I have a feeling though that he'll end up at another contender though who have some more space to play with.

Tristram

I think he will still be a Texan.

Son Of A Vidic

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

He's a $10 million cap hit. Trading Amendola wouldn't clear any cap room for us, and Mallett would be a minimal figure cleared. There's no way we pick up Johnson without clearing a lot of room or getting him to restructure.

The biggest issue is not his salary which can be restructured and renegotiated. But the $11.9 million in dead money Houston would have to deal with now. That’s what makes any trade very unlikely. However in the longer term, the dead money for Houston could be recouped by ending a contract that would have run until the end of 2016. So it’s not impossible and it depends on whether they take a short term or long term view of any transaction.

For us, after we sign and pay our rookies, we should have around $6.18 million left in cap space left. We would also have to also deal with $6.8 million in dead money if Amendola was traded. But any move for Johnson would obviously involve a restructure, otherwise it wouldn't happen. Aside from the fair bit of financial juggling that would be required. The biggest question here is, does Johnson want to win things and join an elite franchise? And is he willing to sacrifice some cash to do so? And if he does, then it could be done.

But right now, I think Bill is happy enough with his receiving corp. I think he is happy to let this group fight it out during training camp. And settle for the survival of the fittest. Unlike other franchises, we also don’t tend to make life easier for our QB by picking up top quality toys for him. So I expect nothing to happen on the Johnson front. And if he does go anywhere, it could possibly be Denver, because Elway just can't do enough to spoil his QB with gifts.

kryogen

I will actually be incredibly pissed if Brady retires without winning at least, at least 1 more ring. Running out of time for BB to give him serious weapons though

I know BB obviously wants to succeed himself, but I have spoken before about being too ingrained in a particular system, which is what I think he might be

Hazys

kryogen wrote: »

I will actually be incredibly pissed if Brady retires without winning at least, at least 1 more ring. Running out of time for BB to give him serious weapons though

I know BB obviously wants to succeed himself, but I have spoken before about being too ingrained in a particular system, which is what I think he might be

As much as i want Brady to win another ring before he retires and he deserves it more than any other player in the NFL...but i can't fault BB for picking up a QB in the 2nd as opposed to a player that can help us win now.

BB is all about the system and always will be. No player is bigger than the team and that includes Brady. I don't want Brady or BB to retire and i certainly don't want both of them to retire at the same time (half of New England will be on suicide watch if that happens) but this signals to me that BB is looking at the future of the Pats without Brady which probably means he's think of staying for another 5+ years which would be unbelievable unfortunately Brady's career as a player cant last that long.

I think this will bring the best out of Brady. TBH imo Brady was below his best last season, i know we had a lot of issues with rookie WRs and Gronk missed most of the season, but Brady missed a lot of open receivers and his play was not Brady-like. Tom loves to compete and he hasn't had a serious fight for his job in a long time and each season going forward the threat of Garoppolo will be stronger so Brady will have to work harder. For the majority of his career Brady trained in Foxboro and won the parking spot for hardest working player. The past couple of seasons, he's been understandingly spending his off-season in LA with his family and he hasnt won the parking spot in a couple of seasons...this offseason he's moved back to Boston, so I think he too knows hes on the tail end of his career and hes not going down without a fight.

As for sticking to the system, in years past we would have left Talib go and replace him with some run of the mill CB like losing Asante Samuel and replacing him with Deltha O'Neal or Leigh Bodden but this off-season Bill went out and made his biggest FA signing ever Darrelle Revis!!

So before the off-season started and i asked you what would you have preferred? The Pats to draft a QB in round two (possibly setting up the franchise for another 10 years) and sign Revis OR the Pats didn't sign Revis but drafted some unproven rookie CB in the 2nd...which would it be?*

*I know we could have done both but this off-season has been one of the most exciting as a Pats fan so we shouldnt be too upset about our 2nd round pick

Hazys

Just looking back at our rosters from previous seasons...how shocking were our secondarys in comparison to this year's secondary?

(Wikipedia has a mix between final rosters and training camp rosters through the years)

2008 Defensive Backs
25 Fernando Bryant CB
30 Mark Dillard SS UR
31 Brandon Meriweather SS
35 Mike Richardson CB
36 James Sanders FS
29 Lewis Sanders CB
28 Antwain Spann FS/CB
21 Jason Webster CB
22 Terrence Wheatley CB R
24 Jonathan Wilhite CB R
26 Tank Williams SS/ILB

2009 Defensive Backs
23 Leigh Bodden CB
28 Darius Butler CB R
25 Pat Chung SS R
27 Herana-Daze Jones FS
30 Brandon McGowan FS
31 Brandon Meriweather SS
35 Mike Richardson CB
36 James Sanders FS
22 Terrence Wheatley CB
24 Jonathan Wilhite CB
26 Tank Williams SS

2010 Defensive Backs
27 Kyle Arrington CB
23 Leigh Bodden CB
38 Sergio Brown SS UR
28 Darius Butler CB
25 Patrick Chung SS
43 Terrence Johnson CB UR
26 Bret Lockett FS
32 Devin McCourty CB R
30 Brandon McGowan FS
31 Brandon Meriweather FS
36 James Sanders SS
41 Ross Ventrone FS UR
22 Terrence Wheatley CB
24 Jonathan Wilhite CB

2011 Defensive Backs
24 Kyle Arrington CB
31 Sergio Brown FS
25 Patrick Chung FS/SS
44 James Ihedigbo SS
23 Nate Jones CB/FS
32 Devin McCourty CB/FS
27 Antwaun Molden CB
29 Sterling Moore CB/FS
41 Malcolm Williams CB

2012 Defensive Backs
24 Kyle Arrington CB
25 Patrick Chung SS
23 Marquice Cole CB
37 Alfonzo Dennard CB
43 Nate Ebner SS
28 Steve Gregory SS/FS
26 Derrick Martin CB
32 Devin McCourty FS/CB/KR
31 Aqib Talib CB
41 Malcolm Williams CB
27 Tavon Wilson FS

2013 Defensive Backs
25 Kyle Arrington CB
36 Kanorris Davis SS
37 Alfonzo Dennard CB
43 Nate Ebner SS
41 Justin Green CB
28 Steve Gregory SS
30 Duron Harmon FS/SS
32 Devin McCourty FS
26 Logan Ryan CB
31 Aqib Talib CB
27 Tavon Wilson SS/FS

2014 Defensive Backs
25 Kyle Arrington CB
39 Brandon Browner CB
23 Patrick Chung SS
36 Kanorris Davis SS
37 Alfonzo Dennard CB
43 Nate Ebner SS
31 Shamiel Gary SS
41 Justin Green CB
30 Duron Harmon FS/SS
42 Travis Hawkins CB
32 Devin McCourty FS
24 Darrelle Revis CB
26 Logan Ryan CB
21 Jemea Thomas CB/SS
27 Tavon Wilson SS/FS



Revis and McCourty are studs. Browner can possibly be a stud. Dennard can be an above average starter at least potential wise. Arrington can be the best slot CB in the league. Ryan has so much potential. The only weak spot is our second safety buy i'm not too worried about that because the we have unknown potential in Harmon or BB will find a way.

Compare that to starting the 2011 season with Arrington, Chung, McCourty, Ras-I Dowling :rolleyes:

Perhaps I'm being pedantic with this but the idea that Brady "deserves" another ring is crazy I think the idea that anyone who has 3 rings deserves more is nonsense. I would be as big a critic of yere current recieveig corp as anyone but he's been on some great teams while he wa winning superbowls it would be nice to see him put in a better situation to finish his career but I wouldn't be feeling sorry for him and I'd never say he deserves a 4th

Hazys

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

Perhaps I'm being pedantic with this but the idea that Brady "deserves" another ring is crazy I think the idea that anyone who has 3 rings deserves more is nonsense. I would be as big a critic of yere current recieveig corp as anyone but he's been on some great teams while he wa winning superbowls it would be nice to see him put in a better situation to finish his career but I wouldn't be feeling sorry for him and I'd never say he deserves a 4th

GTFO*

Its been 10 years since Brady won a ring. He's agruablely the most deserving QB in the last 10 years not to win a ring.


*Thou shall not take Brady's name in vain, say 4 Hail Marys and 2 Our Fathers.

Utopia Parkway

Hernandez to stand trial for 2 other murders bringing the total to 3.

CJC86

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Hernandez to stand trial for 2 other murders bringing the total to 3.

The important thing about this double murder being that it was before he signed his contract, so he'd forfeit his signing bonus if found guilty. That would give us back $7.5M in cap space. Let's speed this trial up already!

JaMarcusHustle

Also the fact that there's a grand indictment means that there's a lower burden of proof, i.e. rather than having concrete evidence he did it, the jury only need probable cause - i.e. it's more likely he did do it than it is he didn't do it.

Good news for us as it means a conviction is more likely. Still won't be holding my breath for that money any time soon.

Hazys

Hazys wrote: »

GTFO*

Its been 10 years since Brady won a ring. He's agruablely the most deserving QB in the last 10 years not to win a ring.


*Thou shall not take Brady's name in vain, say 4 Hail Marys and 2 Our Fathers.

In fairness though its been 10 years bit he still has 3 you basically said he deserves a 4th more than the likes of champ baily or megatron or larry fitz or ed reed(if he lads with a team) deserve 1 that's madness

Son Of A Vidic

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

In fairness though its been 10 years bit he still has 3 you basically said he deserves a 4th more than the likes of champ baily or megatron or larry fitz or ed reed(if he lads with a team) deserve 1 that's madness

There are some players I would love to see get a ring, but I don't think anyone deserves a ring. Yes I would love to see Brady win another because he was very unlucky in the last two SB's. In the 2011 season, the Gronk-Brady combo was unstoppable, so Gronk's nasty ankle injury before the SB and a crap defense cost cost him a ring imo. In 2007, Asante Samuel makes a two handed catch, brings the ball securely to his stomach and then inexplicably losses it and the Int that would have won the game. So ya, Brady probably should have at least one more ring on his finger and that's the reason I hope he gets one more.

Son Of A Vidic

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Hernandez to stand trial for 2 other murders bringing the total to 3.

Good new and I was hoping for that to happen when I posted this a few months ago..

However, when he was arrested last summer, nobody knew about the other double homicide he was suspected of being involved in. If he is charged with the murder of Abreu and Furtado - and since this occurred before he signed his new contract - then the Pats can recoup the signing bonus because Paragraph 35 of Hernandez’s contract contains a clause where he represents and warrants that there weren't any existing circumstances when he signed his deal that would prevent his continuing availability throughout the contract.

Since this murder occurred before he signed his new contract then he would be in breach of the contract, because he mislead the Pats and misrepresented himself. So if he is charged with this other double murder, then the Pats could recoup lost money.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88932081&postcount=4688

So these latest charges are very good news in terms of getting money back. But on the downside, any financial grievance case and eventual increase in our cap won't happen over night. And it could take several more years before we get our money back.

Hazys

Man, i miss football

http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/0ap2000000262036/Patriots-game-winning-drive

How tight was that spiral by Brady on the game winning pass?