New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

BizzyC

Not surprised that Mankins isn't ending his career a Patriot, but surprised it would come at a time when our O-Line is so suspect.

bruschi

BizzyC wrote: »

Not surprised that Mankins isn't ending his career a Patriot, but surprised it would come at a time when our O-Line is so suspect.

yeah I think thats where I am too. I never thought of Mankins as the most loyal player, he'll be tough and strong on the field, but at the end of the day its a job for him and he needs to get paid, and his hold out soured me a bit to him. Not that I dont blame him, just lost that bit of faith in him I suppose. Not surprised to see him go, but hope he does well and comes back to retire as a Pat or get his HOF jacket as a Pat. Hopefully it was some way mutual too. Wouldnt like to see him depart on bad ground.

He will be a loss though. The O line isnt great, and was one of my concerns from the pre season. He was the leader of that line, so its up to Vollmer and the rest to take up that mantle. It does free up money, so I can only imagine that a play will be made to keep Revis next year.

Moat_Cailin

Hard not love his attitude and play on the field, he will be missed. I think this could be a good trade in the long run, obviously I share the concerns over the O-Line. Time for people to stand up and be counted.

BizzyC

All for cap...
Pats wanted to reduce his salary, he didn't agree.

TBH, I don't think we'll miss him that badly.
The line as a whole is not playing well right now, one player can't fix that.
No point paying all that money for a pro bowl lineman when the defence is still getting plenty of penetration into the backfield.

bruschi

The guys on PFW made a valid point when you look at it from a different point of view. If we had picked up Mankins from say Oakland and gave them a second year tight end, everyone would be going on about how great a deal it was and that the Patriots fleeced them. But it seems no one is saying how well the Bucs are doing out of this one. I think its probably more a case of the trust everyone has in BB and Kraft making the right moves.

I'm shocked, and a bit worried, but at the same time I do think the team is far better in other areas anyway, so its not like this was the only good point on the team. It was a weak point, so I just hope it doesnt further weaken it. We did last what, 8 games without him when he had his holdout too and it didnt shake things up too much from recollection.

Son Of A Vidic

As FA approached back in March, Mankins like Wilfork, was one of the players I expected to be approached for an extension to free up some money. He refused to restructure after the Pro Bowl and now it has emerged, that he also refused again just prior to the trade. Whereas Wilfork swallowed his pride and took one for the team, Mankins was always going to be trickier. Looking back at his previous contract talks, we shouldn't be surprised to see what happened.

My biggest concern right now is who becomes the O line leader? Mankins was a tough SOB who took no shít from opposing D lines. At this moment, I'm not seeing who will step up into this role. The interior line did give us problems in some games last season. So losing Mankins throws down a serious challenges to them for the 2014 season. I'm expecting Connolly to start at centre until Stork is ready to go. And I wouldn't be surprised if Wendell doesn't make the team.

vetinari

I don't like the Mankins trade at all.
It's purely a financial decision and leaves the team weaker for this season.
Brady has just turned 37, in all likelihood we have what 2 maybe at a stretch 3 seasons left with a genuine chance of a Superbowl.

This year is a great shot for us to at least get to the AFC championship.
Denver will be weaker as well, no Decker, Welker suffering from concussions and Manning a year older.
We should maximize each season that Brady has left.
Mankins would still be a top level player for this season.

And this ignores the effect that it must have on team morale.
Cutting / trading a starter just before the season starts is a ****ty message to send to the team.
Presumably they had Mankins help with coaching up his replacements.
Then they made a call at the end of training camp that they could do without him so traded him.
Not exactly a good way to encourage veterans to help younger players.

For the sake of a few million they decided not to pay Mankins for this season.
I think Belichick jumped the gun by a season on this one.

JaMarcusHustle

vetinari wrote: »

I don't like the Mankins trade at all.
It's purely a financial decision and leaves the team weaker for this season.
Brady has just turned 37, in all likelihood we have what 2 maybe at a stretch 3 seasons left with a genuine chance of a Superbowl.

This year is a great shot for us to at least get to the AFC championship.
Denver will be weaker as well, no Decker, Welker suffering from concussions and Manning a year older.
We should maximize each season that Brady has left.
Mankins would still be a top level player for this season.

And this ignores the effect that it must have on team morale.
Cutting / trading a starter just before the season starts is a ****ty message to send to the team.
Presumably they had Mankins help with coaching up his replacements.
Then they made a call at the end of training camp that they could do without him so traded him.
Not exactly a good way to encourage veterans to help younger players.

For the sake of a few million they decided not to pay Mankins for this season.
I think Belichick jumped the gun by a season on this one.

That doesn't even rhyme.

me89

Good to see Dobson is playing tonight.

Son Of A Vidic

Good to see Brian Stork will also be making his first start for us tonight.

CJC86

Nate Ebner's really showing up on Defense tonight. I'd love to see him have a bigger role this year, he's been a great ST player the last couple of years.

BizzyC

Very much liking the look of Garropollo.

He's showing a lot more confidence and patience in the pocket than backups of recent years.

BKWDR

Garropollo looked good last night, a bit of a spark about him. Commentators saying they could still hold on to Ryan though for the experience if anything were to happen.

Speaking of 'were to happen' , i said it last year as well but what the heck is TB doing holding place kicks!?!?! After all the guff (that wasn't) with his hand last season, you think they wouldn't put his throwing hand out near a swinging boot in preseason!

JaMarcusHustle

Boyce and Halapio cut

CJC86

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Boyce and Halapio cut

No surprise about Boyce really. He has great physical ability but never managed to get on the same page as the QBs. I could see a WR-needy team picking him up; maybe Carolina, where he could fill the role Ted Ginn had last year.

TO.

TO. wrote: »

This is where my 53 Man Roster is at right now:

Coming down to the wire now and here is how I see the final one.

QB
Brady
Mallett
Garropolo

RB
Ridley
Vereen
White
Develin(FB)

WR
Dobson
LaFell
Thompkins
Edelmen
Amendola
Slater(ST)

**** Tyms doesn't count until week 4 so we will see if a spot opens

TE
Rob Gronkowski
Michael Hoomanawanui
Tim Wright

OL
Nate Solder
Josh Kline
Bryan Stork
Dan Connolly
Sebastian Vollmer
Marcus Cannon,
Cameron Fleming
Jordan Devey
Ryan Wendell

The OL is a mad one now as its anyones guess. Looking at the list its basically those left who did anything in preseason or seem to be hanging on to their spot i.e Kline.


Defensive Line
Vince Wilfork
Dominique Easley
Sealver Siliga
Chris Jones
Joe Vellano
Jerel Worthy


Defensive End:
Rob Ninkovich
Chandler Jones
Michael Buchanan
Zach Moore
Darius Fleming

Linebacker:
Jerod Mayo
Steve Beauharnais
Dont'a Hightower
Jamie Collins
Ja'Gared Davis

DB's
Darrelle Revis
Logan Ryan
Alfonzo Dennard
Malcom Butler
Kyle Arrington
Duron Harmon
Devin McCourty
Nate Ebner
Pat Chung

Brandon Browner dont think he has done enough but he has 2 weeks where he wont count so who knows if he sticks around. Who he is replaces though is the next question


Kickers
Stephen Gostowski
Ryan Allen

LS
Danny Aiken

The Oline is a sketchy one as I said above. Browner will be another interesting one and every where else seems to be the obvious choices at this point but who knows with the Pats and Bill.

Son Of A Vidic

That's pretty much how I see the final roster also TO.

Edit: Forgot to mention Wendell, I'm not convinced he's a cert to make the roster.

I think Browner gets a guaranteed 1 million and while he hasn't impressed, they mightn't be so willing to let him go. When they went through the committee trying out a partner for McCourty at Safety, I think they missed out by not trying Browner there. He's been burned two often at CB covering average WR's and I think his dominant physicality could be more effective in the middle of the field.

The Boyce cut was coming, in the last game he had similar miscommunication with Garropollo, that I've seen with Brady and Mallett. He made too many frequent errors on his routes. Our last possession being a prime example. Late in the 4th, we went for it on 4th Down. He ran a crossing route with Finch, not only does he run too shallow and pull up too soon, but he hadn't the cop on to get past the down marker . Unforgivable stuff, meanwhile Jimmy had put the ball where he should have been. He's had his chances and did not take them.

Looking back at the O line performance against the Giants. Once again our run game was woeful and one particular play disturbed me. Late in the 4th quarter, Kline gave up another sack when he was beaten at the line. Our QB was grabbed, spun and slammed to the turf onto his throwing shoulder. Precisely the kind of sack that can cause a nasty injury to a QB's arm/shoulder. But it wasn't the sack, that was the problem, it was Kline's reaction.

He gave up the sack and what did I see? Garropollo was picking himself up and there was Kline turning and walking away. I was f****d livid when I saw that. No concern for his teammate/the QB he is supposed to protect. Now if Mankins had of saw his QB being slammed into the turf onto his throwing arm. He would have ripped the perpetrator a new ass hole. I hope our new O line coach & Bill spot that when they reviewed the tape and sort it out. Because if that's the way certain lineman are going to allow their QB to be treated? Then I'm very worried for Brady and the season.

me89

Aiken was cut so we now have no long snapper, wonder who will do it now?

Not surprised with Boyce just to many errors unfortunately

kryogen

Semi surprised to see Aiken cut

TO.

Im at a loss with my 53 man roster now as some what I thought would be kept earlier were cut a mere couple of hours later:

With Devey gone we are thin at guard depending on who we actually keep. Although we do have versatile guys on that line. Thought we would keep Worthy to be honest.

Beauharnais is gone and we kept White so our linebacker are now thin. We do have Fleming though and depending on formation can play both end and LB.

I also made a mistake I thought we would keep Davis but he was released before I made my 53 man. So if Im right between DE and LB we have 8 guys.

Danny Aiken is an odd one.

TO. wrote: »

Coming down to the wire now and here is how I see the final one.

QB
Brady
Mallett
Garropolo

RB
Ridley
Vereen
White
Develin(FB)

WR
Dobson
LaFell
Thompkins
Edelmen
Amendola
Slater(ST)

**** Tyms doesn't count until week 4 so we will see if a spot opens

TE
Rob Gronkowski
Michael Hoomanawanui
Tim Wright

OL
Nate Solder
Josh Kline
Bryan Stork
Dan Connolly
Sebastian Vollmer
Marcus Cannon,
Cameron Fleming
Jordan Devey
Ryan Wendell

The OL is a mad one now as its anyones guess. Looking at the list its basically those left who did anything in preseason or seem to be hanging on to their spot i.e Kline.


Defensive Line
Vince Wilfork
Dominique Easley
Sealver Siliga
Chris Jones
Joe Vellano
Jerel Worthy


Defensive End:
Rob Ninkovich
Chandler Jones
Michael Buchanan
Zach Moore
Darius Fleming

Linebacker:
Jerod Mayo
Steve Beauharnais
Dont'a Hightower
Jamie Collins
Ja'Gared Davis

DB's
Darrelle Revis
Logan Ryan
Alfonzo Dennard
Malcom Butler
Kyle Arrington
Duron Harmon
Devin McCourty
Nate Ebner
Pat Chung

Brandon Browner dont think he has done enough but he has 2 weeks where he wont count so who knows if he sticks around. Who he is replaces though is the next question


Kickers
Stephen Gostowski
Ryan Allen

LS
Danny Aiken

The Oline is a sketchy one as I said above. Browner will be another interesting one and every where else seems to be the obvious choices at this point but who knows with the Pats and Bill.

TO.

Turns out Rob Ninkovich could end up being our LS. He was a LS with the Saints and took a couple of snaps against the Panthers in the Preseason.

TO.

Here is the Actual Finalised 53 man Roster:

QUARTERBACK (3)

Tom Brady
Jimmy Garoppolo
Ryan Mallett

RUNNING BACK (4)

Shane Vereen
James White
Stevan Ridley
Brandon Bolden

FULLBACK (1)

James Develin

TIGHT END (3)

Rob Gronkowski
Michael Hoomanawanui
Tim Wright

WIDE RECEIVER (5)

Julian Edelman
Aaron Dobson
Danny Amendola
Brandon LaFell
Kenbrell Thompkins
Brian Tyms*

* Player doesn't count against the 53-man roster because of NFL suspension.

OFFENSIVE LINEMEN (10)

LT Nate Solder
LG Josh Kline
C Ryan Wendell
RG Dan Connolly
RT Sebastian Vollmer
OT/G Marcus Cannon
C Bryan Stork
OT/G Jordan Devey
OT Cameron Fleming
G/LT Chris Barker

DEFENSIVE TACKLE (6)

Vince Wilfork
Dominique Easley
Sealver Siliga
Chris Jones
Joe Vellano
Zach Moore

DEFENSIVE END/OUTSIDE LINEBACKER (5)

Chandler Jones
Dont'a Hightower
Rob Ninkovich
Michael Buchanan
Darius Fleming

INSIDE LINEBACKER (3)

Jerod Mayo
Jamie Collins
Chris White

CORNERBACK (5)

Darrelle Revis
Malcolm Butler
Logan Ryan
Alfonzo Dennard
Kyle Arrington
Brandon Browner*

* Player doesn't count against the 53-man roster because of NFL suspension.

SAFETY (5)

Devin McCourty
Patrick Chung
Tavon Wilson
Duron Harmon
Nate Ebner

SPECIALISTS (3)

P Ryan Allen
K Stephen Gostkowski
Captain Matthew Slater

CJC86

Could the Aiken cut be simply to give some more time to sort out a trade for Mallett? Surely he'll still be around to re-sign.

Masked Man

Ninkovich as LS would worry me. This is what I found when I googled it.

Becoming a full-time long snapper was not on his checklist of goals either, but during New Orleans' OTAs (organized team activities) in 2009, coach Sean Payton informed Ninkovich his only future with the Saints would be handling that specific job.

"So what else could I do?" Ninkovich said. "I started long snapping every minute of every day. It was my only chance."

That opportunity was snuffed out when the Saints released him on the first day of training camp.

Then, on the second day, the Patriots called.

TO.

Masked Man wrote: »

Ninkovich as LS would worry me. This is what I found when I googled it.

Thing is now though he has his starting spot on defense so it means he might be happier to now play a role as a LS. From what I read he is actually a very decent LS. You can imagine being with the Saints and trying to break in as a ST or LB last thing you want is a LS role.

empacher

Seems like some of the safeties could be cut, especially when browner comes back. Although he wasn't that impressive in pre-season. He could be a good SS with his physicality. Maybe Malcolm, or Logan Ryan could play as the second safety on third and long. They both seem to have good ball hawking instincts, and have the speed to cover deep threats and go line to line.

Might be a good way to build them towards a starting CB role.

TO.

empacher wrote: »

Seems like some of the safeties could be cut, especially when browner comes back. Although he wasn't that impressive in pre-season. He could be a good SS with his physicality. Maybe Malcolm, or Logan Ryan could play as the second safety on third and long. They both seem to have good ball hawking instincts, and have the speed to cover deep threats and go line to line.

Might be a good way to build them towards a starting CB role.

Thats if we have any ambition of putting Browner as a safety which I doubt the Pats will do. I cant see Butler or Ryan being put as safeties either. All 3 are CB and will only play inside on Nickel or Dime packages. Its also not a straight swap to put a CB in as a safety especially SS as they would then have to be hybrid safety linebacker types. Butler has proved himself to the Pats as a CB as has Ryan although not the greatest at times. Browner if we take him back will be given a last chance to prove himself at CB.

Having said all that if we went down that road what safeties would you sacrifice for them.

Hazys

Aiken will be back or at least they'll sign a designated LS...a lot more moves to be made in the coming days

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

Thats if we have any ambition of putting Browner as a safety which I doubt the Pats will do. I cant see Butler or Ryan being put as safeties either. All 3 are CB and will only play inside on Nickel or Dime packages. Its also not a straight swap to put a CB in as a safety especially SS as they would then have to be hybrid safety linebacker types. Butler has proved himself to the Pats as a CB as has Ryan although not the greatest at times. Browner if we take him back will be given a last chance to prove himself at CB.

Having said all that if we went down that road what safeties would you sacrifice for them.

I agree with you, Butler and Ryan will not be moved to safety. Butler has had a fantastic preseason and from what I've seen so far. He's one of the most natural, ball hawking CB's on the roster. Ryan has been poor at times this preseason, but the closest I see him getting to Safety is playing slot corner on some snaps. Bronwer is the only back that could be considered for SS, but even he lacks the size and punch to be an Adrian Wilson type SS. But If Browner continues to unimpress at corner, Bill will eventually move him to the middle of the field. And I expect that move to be at the expense of Chung.

Hazys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWoVKJx7j5Y