New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

Vandango

BizzyC wrote: »

Terrible O-Line play, Brady missing throws, run defence rolling over, Revis Island looking like more of a peninsula...
With Jets, Fins and Bills all making strong starts, I think we should be worried.

I don't get the Brady bit. The s**t O line play we had yesterday would effect any QB. Everyone knows Brady will over throw a pass when in doubt. And it's one of the reasons he usually has low Int rates. La Fell was totally useless yesterday, he couldn't even compete for the passes that went his way. Some of the calls McDaniels was dialling up were ridiculous. Brady was clearly trying to force feed La Fell and the guy didn't make one reception. I hope that's the end of him and young Tyms is drafted in. I don't know how we are going to sort out the O line because they were a complete disaster.

bruschi

what a horrible horrible opening game. I havent felt worse about an opening game since we played Kansas at home in 2008.

The O Line was muck. But it wasnt all down to Mankins being gone. Is the effect of Scarnacchia a bigger factor?

The D line was rubbish too. 3-4 with Chandler Jones on the end is not going to work. I thought it during pre season, and yesterday reinforced it. Go back to 4-3 and keep him on the end. But who plugs the gap with Wilfork?

Brady was rubbish too. Call a spade a spade. Yes pressure, yes injured calf, but he threw some awful ducks and missed open players horribly.

Revis? Meh. Butler looked better. Needs to get the finger out and realise he is not in for a free ride just because he is at a "playoff team". Inverted comments because we wont be if we lay like that again. Same for LaFell. And for Browner when he comes into selection.

Kick in the hole for a lot of players, and coaches, this week. No one expects to win every game, but you do expect to be prepared and to commit 100%. Bar a few players, there was not many there who can say they left it all on the field and gave their full commitment.

BaronVon

Brady was 29/56 for 249 and 1 Td, pretty poor for his high standards alright!

bruschi

infacteh wrote: »

Brady was 29/56 for 249 and 1 Td, pretty poor for his high standards alright!

249 yards and 1 TD is not great. It ranked 14th out of passers yesterday. Are we wanting to win a superbowl with a previous MVP, or just be average. 249 yards and 1 TD is average. We may have high expectations for Brady, but for good reason. He isnt a rookie, and I dont think he played well yesterday, nevermind by his own high standards.

BaronVon

bruschi wrote: »

249 yards and 1 TD is not great. It ranked 14th out of passers yesterday. Are we wanting to win a superbowl with a previous MVP, or just be average. 249 yards and 1 TD is average. We may have high expectations for Brady, but for good reason. He isnt a rookie, and I dont think he played well yesterday, nevermind by his own high standards.

No, I agree with you, he wasn't great. My biggest concern was his body language, he looked like he didn't expect his passes to be caught.

j8wk2feszrnpao

The question about Kelly 'kinda' gets answered.

Amerika

I thought it was a lovely Sunday... says the NY Jets fan.

BKWDR

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4767739/after-week-1-loss-brady-loses-the-beard

He's lost the beard. Sh1t got real.

eagle eye

bruschi wrote: »

what a horrible horrible opening game. I havent felt worse about an opening game since we played Kansas at home in 2008.

The O Line was muck. But it wasnt all down to Mankins being gone. Is the effect of Scarnacchia a bigger factor?

The D line was rubbish too. 3-4 with Chandler Jones on the end is not going to work. I thought it during pre season, and yesterday reinforced it. Go back to 4-3 and keep him on the end. But who plugs the gap with Wilfork?

Brady was rubbish too. Call a spade a spade. Yes pressure, yes injured calf, but he threw some awful ducks and missed open players horribly.

Revis? Meh. Butler looked better. Needs to get the finger out and realise he is not in for a free ride just because he is at a "playoff team". Inverted comments because we wont be if we lay like that again. Same for LaFell. And for Browner when he comes into selection.

Kick in the hole for a lot of players, and coaches, this week. No one expects to win every game, but you do expect to be prepared and to commit 100%. Bar a few players, there was not many there who can say they left it all on the field and gave their full commitment.

A lot of players didn't play well yesterday but I'm afraid I think that as far as the OL is concerned that the loss of Scar is a major issue.

Lets hope they can learn a lot from what happened yesterday and get back on track.

Son Of A Vidic

Brandon La Fell played 38 snaps, he was targeted 6 times and had 0 receptions. He looked completely incapable of getting open and couldn't even out compete the smaller CB's who were covering him. So apart from not being able to get open or catch a pass. He also gave up a stupid OPi call, right after some effective work by Amendola. He then goes and gets offside during a kick off. Thompkins was a much better threat and was much more competitive, yet it was clear Brady was trying to force the issue with La Fell. Usually when a WR has zero production, that's him finished with Brady. Yesterday La Fell demonstrated he was incapable of performing the Dobson role.

Brian Tyms showed exactly the kind of skill set that La Fell hasn't got. Tyms is an excellent route runner, tracks the ball brilliantly through the air, and has demonstrated the explosive athleticism to out compete backs in the air. He's done it all preseaon. And he won't cost us the 3 million that La Fell is costing us. We need to find a roster spot for him in 4 weeks time, not only can he give us the Dobson style option. But I think he could be even better than him. Of course Josh McDaniel's hadn't the brain cells, to give him some snaps with Brady during the preseason. Just to let them get a feel and start some chemistry with each other. I mean god forbid we have a bit of forward planning.

Amendola and La Fell are costing us $9 million this season and we are not getting value for money. I didn't realise that Amendola played 61 snaps yesterday he was that quiet. He was 3/5 for 15 yards yesterday and that from the highest paid WR on the team, just doesn't set my world on fire at all. Edelman was 6/8 for 95 yards and he also had two rushes for 21 yards. Edelman is the star of the WR corp and it is he who should be on Amendola's salary.

Tim Wright played 21 snaps was 3/3 for 15 yards. A rare positive from yesterday and we can't ask for much more than a 100% pass catching success rate. It would have been nice to see him get more snaps. But Hooman being a better blocker, got more snaps as the O line imploded. Not that a better blocking TE made a damn difference yesterday.

Gronk was very poor and was very ring rusty. But I couldn't help feel he was a bit nervous yesterday. He missed catches he would previously make with his eyes closed. And these catches were in areas that had oncoming traffic. So I think there was a bit of understandable nervousness, especially considering his recent injury jinx. A few games under his belt should sort that out though

I'm not even going waste my time worrying about Brady. He was pressured on a shocking 40% of drop backs yesterday and his O line protection was an utter disgrace. I'm just glad he got out of there in one piece. To avoid being killed by on oncoming opponent, he had to throw the ball away quite a few times. Mightn't help his stats, but I'm sure he doesn't give a crap and nor do I. Spending the entire second half with a rampaging defense stuck in his face, isn't where you want your QB to be. So I'm just grateful he made it off the field.

AbusesToilets

Corvus, how did you feel the run game went yesterday? I thought Ridley looked pretty quiet, although he got around the corner well once or twice.

Son Of A Vidic

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Corvus, how did you feel the run game went yesterday? I thought Ridley looked pretty quiet, although he got around the corner well once or twice.

I thought our run game wasn't great at times. There were a couple of decent plays, like Ridleys 11 yard run but that was it. But he averaged 1.4 yards for the next 7 carries. Vereen had some nice runs and he had a pretty good average of 5.1 yards per carry. The best run play for me, was when pulled out a surprising jet sweep style play with Edelman and he gained 16/17 yards I think. Edelman ended up with 2 runs for 21 yards. Looking at all combined runs we averaged 4.4 ypc, so that's not too bad I suppose.

I think overall we had a Pass Vs Run play option of 3:1. Tbh, I think we should have balanced the ratio out a bit. I'd much prefer to see Brady handing the ball of to a RB, rather than fight for his life in an imploding pocket. Also might have helped the O line to run some more run plays, rather that continue the struggles they had trying to protect Brady and the pocket.

We also need to settle on an established O line, there was too much O line substitutions going on yesterday and with a new unsettled line, communication and coordination is bound to suffer. For the next game, I hope to see a more balanced Pass Vs Run attack.

eagle eye

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Brandon La Fell played 38 snaps, he was targeted 6 times and had 0 receptions. He looked completely incapable of getting open and couldn't even out compete the smaller CB's who were covering him. So apart from not being able to get open or catch a pass. He also gave up a stupid OPi call, right after some effective work by Amendola. He then goes and gets offside during a kick off. Thompkins was a much better threat and was much more competitive, yet it was clear Brady was trying to force the issue with La Fell. Usually when a WR has zero production, that's him finished with Brady. Yesterday La Fell demonstrated he was incapable of performing the Dobson role.

You cannot blame La Fell for not catching all those targets. Brady overthrew him twice. He was double covered twice too. I'm not saying he is any good just being fair about it. I don't think there was any ball thrown his way that you would say he should have caught, at least none that I remember.

I'm not blaming Brady either for this, he was hurried all afternoon, thats when he wasn't being sacked or seriously pressured.

As I said in response to a post earlier on, I think the loss of Scar is a big concern. He could get any big fella to do a half decent blocking job.

CJC86

With the new drug policy being voted on today, and there being talk of applying the new rules to current suspensions, there's a chance we may have Tyms by next week. Browner will be another couple of weeks though.

While he looked poor enough in preseason, I think we could really have done with Browner on Sunday. His physical style may have helped knock Mike Wallace around a bit.

Anyway, no reason to panic, it was crap game, but all teams have them. The weather certainly wouldn't have helped.

bruschi

I'd prefer to lose now, with Brady slightly injured, Gronk only back, Browner out, O line adjusting to personnel, etc, rather than later on in the season when at full strength. It gives a chance now to correct problems, unlike when you win games easy and dont find your flaws and then dont correct them in time.

There were a lot of flaws, but I think the majority of them can be rectified. Some simple line adjustments on boths sides of the ball, Brady fully fit, Gronk back in his groove, Revis playing like he can and it should come good. Kick in the ar$e now is no harm.

Revis came in and played through camp relying on his reputation. Now he must realise he has to actually play, and QBs wont avoid him just because of his name anymore, he is going to have to justify them to keep the ball away. There were a lot of comparisons to Revis and Moss in their lazy camp training manners, giving up on plays and not going 100%. But Moss brought it. Revis didnt. If he continues like he did Sunday, then there would be no decision to make at the end of the year for an expensive extension.

BKWDR

CJC86 wrote: »

Anyway, no reason to panic, it was crap game, but all teams have them. The weather certainly wouldn't have helped.

Lets see if the Dolphins can swim in the snow in December, the business end of the season...

JaMarcusHustle

So it turns out that Tommy Kelly asked to be released due to the fact that his contract is heavily based on incentives, and he felt that constantly being subbed out was preventing him from reaching those incentive targets. Tbh, I can't say I blame him, though I can't blame us either given his injury history.

Son Of A Vidic

CJC86 wrote: »

With the new drug policy being voted on today, and there being talk of applying the new rules to current suspensions, there's a chance we may have Tyms by next week.

Oh please yes, I'll take Tyms right now over La Fell. I was just looking back over their preseason production...

Tyms - 11/18 for 188 Yards and 2 TD's. A catch rate of 61% and virtually all targets were deep passes. And there a reason he has reminded some of us of Moss. Tyms has a good friendship with Randy Moss and credits him for developing his down field, deep ball skills.

La Fell - 6/13 for 59 Yards and 1 TD. A catch rate of 46% and few if any targets were deep passes. His first NFL game brought nothing to the offense. We can't afford the luxury of zero production. Now I'd be willing to give him a chance, but if that chance is at the expense of Tyms making the roster? Then AFAIC, he can walk.

eagle eye

All this Tym's love is unreasonable imo. He has yet to prove he can do it in regular season play. I'm surprised at you Corvus using preseason on stats. We all know they don't matter a jot, the coaches will make the right decision anyways.

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

All this Tym's love is unreasonable imo. He has yet to prove he can do it in regular season play. I'm surprised at you Corvus using preseason on stats. We all know they don't matter a jot, the coaches will make the right decision anyways.

I haven't seen such an athletic field stretching WR in a Pats jersey since the days of Moss. He's already made a fair few Moss style receptions and I make no apologies for getting excited about that. This guy ain't no Zach Sudfield, the rookie TE that Pats fans were calling mini-Gronk and did nothing after preseaon last year. Tyms is no rookie, he's been unlucky in his NFL career. He dealt with lot of personal off field problems and family loss and he's come back ready to play.

And regarding the coaches making the right decisions? Sorry I don't share your confidence. We have stunk when it comes to assessing, signing and picking up WR talent. Last year we finally moved away from signing washed up JAGs and drafted Dobson and Thompkins. But that was certainly a break from our norm. Because when it comes to our ability for picking up and developing talented WR's, our track record has been very poor.

Dobson & Thompkins were the first decent looking WR's we've drafted since Deion Branch back in 2002. Right now, all we can do is compare the preseason stats of Tyms & La Fell. And Tyms wins that battle hands down. I didn't see La Fell make any eye catching catches in coverage. Tyms on the other hand, made quite a few. Of course there's no guarantees in football, but Tyms wins the roster spot for me all day.

The potential high reward to low risk would be crazy to pass up. But you know, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the guy never gets a chance.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

All this Tym's love is unreasonable imo. He has yet to prove he can do it in regular season play. I'm surprised at you Corvus using preseason on stats. We all know they don't matter a jot, the coaches will make the right decision anyways.

Little risk with Dumping LaFell and bringing in Tyms though. LaFell has shown nothing so far both off season and regular season. His route running wasn't great and Brady only targeted him on designed plays i.e those long bombs to him. I hoped LaFell would be good but it doesn't look like he wil.

eagle eye

TO. wrote: »

Little risk with Dumping LaFell and bringing in Tyms though. LaFell has shown nothing so far both off season and regular season. His route running wasn't great and Brady only targeted him on designed plays i.e those long bombs to him. I hoped LaFell would be good but it doesn't look like he wil.

I guess what I'm saying is that we really haven't a clue how good or bad Tyms really is. He has been around for two years and has done absolutely nothing in regular season football.

LaFell is a good backup to have imo and if he is starting ahead of Dobson then he must be doing something right.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

I guess what I'm saying is that we really haven't a clue how good or bad Tyms really is. He has been around for two years and has done absolutely nothing in regular season football.

LaFell is a good backup to have imo and if he is starting ahead of Dobson then he must be doing something right.

Does it matter if we know if he is good or bad in the regular season though? At this point I would give anyone a chance that excites us at WR even if it is pre-season for the main reason that LaFell has done nothing to impress and already has shown us he isn't the answer. So why not get some excitement about a guy who could add to our WR corp. It's no different to getting excited about potential draft picks.

As for starting ahead of Dobson. He is doing that because A: Dobosn is injury prone and B: Us and the coaching staff have yet to see Dobson put in a long solid body of work also. Add LaFells running blocking abilities to the mix he is an obvious starter over Dobson right now. It wont take long for Dobson to skip over LaFell on the depth if he stays healthy and performs also.

eagle eye

TO. wrote: »

Does it matter if we know if he is good or bad in the regular season though? At this point I would give anyone a chance that excites us at WR even if it is pre-season for the main reason that LaFell has done nothing to impress and already has shown us he isn't the answer. So why not get some excitement about a guy who could add to our WR corp. It's no different to getting excited about potential draft picks.

As for starting ahead of Dobson. He is doing that because A: Dobosn is injury prone and B: Us and the coaching staff have yet to see Dobson put in a long solid body of work also. Add LaFells running blocking abilities to the mix he is an obvious starter over Dobson right now. It wont take long for Dobson to skip over LaFell on the depth if he stays healthy and performs also.

That is all fair enough but why dump LaFell when he is ahead of somebody else right now?

I mean LaFell is only 27, Dobson is 23, Tyms is 25.

Of those three there is one with no regular season experience, one who is injury prone and one who has proven himself as an average receiver in the league. Why would you cut the one who has the best history?

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

That is all fair enough but why dump LaFell when he is ahead of somebody else right now?

I mean LaFell is only 27, Dobson is 23, Tyms is 25.

Of those three there is one with no regular season experience, one who is injury prone and one who has proven himself as an average receiver in the league. Why would you cut the one who has the best history?

I would dump him because he is one of these guys who we all though might live up to the potential he was supposed to have since 2010. Most of us though he migh break out at the Pats and come good and get away from being average but judging him right now I can't see it happening so why not take a punt on Tyms and dump LaFell. Either way if Tyms doesn't work out and is only average also then we gained nothing lost nothing.

All well and good having regular season experience but not really doing anything with that experience is pointless at best.

5 seasons in the league and this is LaFells numbers:

Receptions 167
Receiving Yards 2,385
Receiving TDs 13

I would gladly take a punt on Tyms at this point.

eagle eye

TO. wrote: »

I would dump him because he is one of these guys who we all though might live up to the potential he was supposed to have since 2010. Most of us though he migh break out at the Pats and come good and get away from being average but judging him right now I can't see it happening so why not take a punt on Tyms and dump LaFell. Either way if Tyms doesn't work out and is only average also then we gained nothing lost nothing.

All well and good having regular season experience but not really doing anything with that experience is pointless at best.

5 seasons in the league and this is LaFells numbers:

Receptions 167
Receiving Yards 2,385
Receiving TDs 13

I would gladly take a punt on Tyms at this point.

I just don't understand how you drop him and hold onto two big question marks.

LaFell will catch balls and even at this stage he could break out with us, sometimes it takes players a little bit longer to get with the playbook and get some chemistry with the QB. He can block as you said earlier too.

Then you have a guy who has spent most of the last year injured in Dobson and a guy who has never done anything in the regular season.

I had Dobson as one of my binkie's a year ago before the draft. I thought the Patriots has picked up a really good one when they selected him but when he is a healthy scratch then you have to wonder whats going on.

If Dobson is a healthy scratch again this week then you can be sure that he is one being cut to add Tyms if that happens.

CJC86

I can't see Dobson ending up as the odd one out. Sure, he had injury problems last year, but the whole point of the more invasive procedure he went for is that it's a more permanent fix.

I was guessing the healthy scratch was to give him a bit more time for fitness reasons, but I don't know. I just don't see any other WRs on our roster catching that TD he did against the Giants for example, because he used all his speed, size and strength.

Son Of A Vidic

Not a hope of Dobson being cut. He is the most promising young WR on our roster. The pure deep field threat we've been looking for. I've already talked about the procedure Dobson had a few weeks back and gave a brief insight into what was done and how it should work out here........

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91516599&postcount=5317

Dobson's performance against the Giants, reassured me that he's well on track to being 100%. He's only coming back from foot surgery and they were right not to rush him for the opener. For once, it was reassuring to see some come sense being used. Right now La Fell is his replacement and he's failing miserably. The arrival of Tyms gives us a very similar player to Dobson and they naturally complement other.

Here's another point to consider, Tyms was signed 10 days before preseason started. La Fell had nearly a 5 month head start on him to bed in and he still gets outshined by Tyms on the field. Every time he's had an opportunity, Tyms looked the more dangerous and dynamic WR on the field. If Dobson is on the field on Sunday. I won't be surprised if we see very little of La Fell come Sunday.

eagle eye

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Not a hope of Dobson being cut. He is the most promising young WR on our roster. The pure deep field threat we've been looking for. I've already talked about the procedure Dobson had a few weeks back and gave a brief insight into what was done and how it should work out here........

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91516599&postcount=5317

Dobson's performance against the Giants, reassured me that he's well on track to being 100%. He's only coming back from foot surgery and they were right not to rush him for the opener. For once, it was reassuring to see some come sense being used. Right now La Fell is his replacement and he's failing miserably. The arrival of Tyms gives us a very similar player to Dobson and they naturally complement other.

Here's another point to consider, Tyms was signed 10 days before preseason started. La Fell had nearly a 5 month head start on him to bed in and he still gets outshined by Tyms on the field. Every time he's had an opportunity, Tyms looked the more dangerous and dynamic WR on the field. If Dobson is on the field on Sunday. I won't be surprised if we see very little of La Fell come Sunday.

What if Dobson is a healthy scratch again?

Son Of A Vidic

I thought I already covered that here....

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

The arrival of Tyms gives us a very similar player to Dobson and they naturally complement other.

All going well, they alternate snaps or even line up on opposites sides of the field.