New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

SantryRed

eagle eye wrote: »

Funny when people starting trashing the OC who was in charge when we went 16-0.

What is going on here? We have the best head coach in the NFL, we haven't had a losing season since 2000. We are 2-1 and its all out panic right here.

I read your post TO and I understand what you are saying but this is the New England Patriots and Bill Belichick we are talking about.

Anyways just came on to say that this panic stations stuff is just ridiculous imo. I'm sure everything will work out as per normal and we will go into the playoffs as one of the favourites to win the Superbowl. And if we don't, well maybe just maybe they have a two year plan or something.

The best head coach who hasn't won a superbowl in 9 years now?

Hazys

SantryRed wrote: »

The best head coach who hasn't won a superbowl in 9 years now?

Yes.

Tom Coughlin has won 2 in the last 9 years...who would you rather have him coaching your team?

Is Super Bowl wins your only barometer for coaching success?

Hazys

I'm shocked that the offense is so bad. Its basically the same team as last year with the same OC. 10 of 11 starters are back and we are healthier. Shocking really.

Only difference really is Scar is gone, that can't be the entire reason the offense is fcuked.

Vandango

Hazys wrote: »

Yes.

Tom Coughlin has won 2 in the last 9 years...who would you rather have him coaching your team?

Is Super Bowl wins your only barometer for coaching success?

You shouldn't have bothered gracing that with a response.

Vandango

eagle eye wrote: »

Funny when people starting trashing the OC who was in charge when we went 16-0.

What is going on here? We have the best head coach in the NFL, we haven't had a losing season since 2000. We are 2-1 and its all out panic right here.

I read your post TO and I understand what you are saying but this is the New England Patriots and Bill Belichick we are talking about.

Anyways just came on to say that this panic stations stuff is just ridiculous imo. I'm sure everything will work out as per normal and we will go into the playoffs as one of the favourites to win the Superbowl. And if we don't, well maybe just maybe they have a two year plan or something.

What has 2007 got to do with today? And I wouldn't be putting the success of that year solely on McDaniel's shoulders. In fact, out offensive stats have been deteriorating since he came back. I couldn't care less if he walked tomorrow, like a lot of Pats fans, I'm just sick of his frequently stupid play calling. Always trying to be too clever, always trying too hard imo. We passed up Saunders during FA and landed that clown La Fell instead. And why shouldn't Pats be pissed off. Have you not seen some of the beatings Brady has been taking with the invisible O line protection? We should be 3-0 against poor opponents, but instead we have struggled.

To be honest, maybe it was unintentional, but I thought this comment came across as incredibly arrogant - "This is the new England Patriots we are talking about." Well when you see them let me know, because I haven't seen them turn up on the field yet. Our feared offense was wiped out in the 2013 offseason and we still haven't seen anything close to it since then and probably never will. Criticising our incompetent O line and waster OC, has nothing to do with panic stations. Thank Christ people are getting seriously annoyed with things, better that, than have a pack of Homers living in denial imo.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

Funny when people starting trashing the OC who was in charge when we went 16-0.

Thrashing? So having an opinion on the way we are playing right now and his decisions is thrashing him? Fair enough.

What is going on here? We have the best head coach in the NFL, we haven't had a losing season since 2000. We are 2-1 and its all out panic right here.

So what. We haven't won the big prize since 2005 and that doesn't look like its going to change this year.

I read your post TO and I understand what you are saying but this is the New England Patriots and Bill Belichick we are talking about.

So Bill is exempt from any coaching decision discussions or opinions? Again Fair enough

Anyways just came on to say that this panic stations stuff is just ridiculous imo. I'm sure everything will work out as per normal and we will go into the playoffs as one of the favourites to win the Superbowl. And if we don't, well maybe just maybe they have a two year plan or something.

No one is panicing. You are putting words in our mouths and making this out to be something it isnt. Two year plan? Yeah no.

eagle eye

Vandango wrote: »

What has 2007 got to do with today? And I wouldn't be putting the success of that year solely on McDaniel's shoulders. In fact, out offensive stats have been deteriorating since he came back. I couldn't care less if he walked tomorrow, like a lot of Pats fans, I'm just sick of his frequently stupid play calling. Always trying to be too clever, always trying too hard imo. We passed up Saunders during FA and landed that clown La Fell instead. And why shouldn't Pats be pissed off. Have you not seen some of the beatings Brady has been taking with the invisible O line protection? We should be 3-0 against poor opponents, but instead we have struggled.

To be honest, maybe it was unintentional, but I thought this comment came across as incredibly arrogant - "This is the new England Patriots we are talking about." Well when you see them let me know, because I haven't seen them turn up on the field yet. Our feared offense was wiped out in the 2013 offseason and we still haven't seen anything close to it since then and probably never will. Criticising our incompetent O line and waster OC, has nothing to do with panic stations. Thank Christ people are getting seriously annoyed with things, better that, than have a pack of Homers living in denial imo.

So you couldn't care less if he walked tomorrow and you are probably one of the majority of fans who wanted Bill O'Brien gone after one season as OC.

Its just unbelievable how people think they know better than an OC or think that the OC is not doing a good job. We really haven't a clue about how good they are doing, all we have to go on is statistics. Now go read my sig and what Bill Belichick has said about them.

So you can take stats from this season and maybe last season too if you want and state that McDaniels is not doing a good job. Then I'll go and show you win and loss records with McDaniels as OC and that will show that he is doing a superb job.

As for criticism, if we were 0-3 then its all fine to start giving out but here we are 2-1 and apparently our D and O both suck.

Where is the positivity? Where is the trust in our coaches? We are always there come the postseason and have a chance of winning it all. What the hell do you want?

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

So you couldn't care less if he walked tomorrow and you are probably one of the majority of fans who wanted Bill O'Brien gone after one season as OC.

Its just unbelievable how people think they know better than an OC or think that the OC is not doing a good job. We really haven't a clue about how good they are doing, all we have to go on is statistics. Now go read my sig and what Bill Belichick has said about them.

So you can take stats from this season and maybe last season too if you want and state that McDaniels is not doing a good job. Then I'll go and show you win and loss records with McDaniels as OC and that will show that he is doing a superb job.

As for criticism, if we were 0-3 then its all fine to start giving out but here we are 2-1 and apparently our D and O both suck.

Where is the positivity? Where is the trust in our coaches? We are always there come the postseason and have a chance of winning it all. What the hell do you want?

So basically we are not allowed have an opinion on it and Bill and co are not open to criticism in the debating world? Got you loud a clear. End of debate.

eagle eye

TO. wrote: »

So basically we are not allowed have an opinion on it and Bill and co are not open to criticism in the debating world? Got you loud a clear. End of debate.

I'm not talking about you TO, its these people going on about McDaniels for instance. I don't think you have been at that stuff.

Maybe in my world right now things are just too rosy and I'm not seeing why there is so much criticism.

I'm personally just of the opinion that they will get things right and we will be serious contenders as per usual.

Its fine to have opinions, just this stuff suggesting that coaching isn't up to standard for the most part is ridiculous imo. Its that type of stuff that I think it ridiculous.

BKWDR

Watching Blount steam roll like he did last season. Why oh why didn't we keep him..

Vandango

eagle eye wrote: »

So you couldn't care less if he walked tomorrow and you are probably one of the majority of fans who wanted Bill O'Brien gone after one season as OC.

No, I couldn't careless if he walked. Brady would be better off without him. And I don't know where the O'Brien part is coming from.

eagle eye wrote: »

We really haven't a clue about how good they are doing, all we have to go on is statistics. Now go read my sig and what Bill Belichick has said about them.

I had to turn on signatures to see your sig. But you're kinda contradicting yourself. Your sig quotes Bill on stats and earlier on, you go on about stats mentioning the 16-0 and crediting McD for that. The offensive success we had in 2007, was more to do with the Brady-Moss chemistry and to a lesser extent Welker, than McD imo.

eagle eye wrote: »

So you can take stats from this season and maybe last season too if you want and state that McDaniels is not doing a good job. Then I'll go and show you win and loss records with McDaniels as OC and that will show that he is doing a superb job.

Brady and Belichick is the most successful/winningest Coach/QB combo in NFL history. They've won before McD and they won when he left. And they'll keep winning if he fecks off again.

eagle eye wrote: »

Where is the positivity? Where is the trust in our coaches? We are always there come the postseason and have a chance of winning it all. What the hell do you want?

I'm not a homer and I don't believe in blind faith. And what do I want? Well maybe an O line that will prevent Brady's early retirement and maybe cut La Fell. As Corvus highlighted earlier, he's 4/14 with a 28.5% catch rate. Some might discount stats but when a guy who's paid to catch a ball, can't catch a ball. Then that's a wasted roster spot.

Son Of A Vidic

BKWDR wrote: »

Watching Blount steam roll like he did last season. Why oh why didn't we keep him..

We kept Bolden instead of Blount. We kept Bolden instead of Blount. Sorry for repeating myself, but it's hard to believe. Blount had a great game last night. That said, up until last night he was 7 carries for 14 yards in two games. But he's the kind of RB that will do damage when given the chance. And that's something Bolden has failed to do in three years. I do miss his bulldozing style running.

eagle eye

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

We kept Bolden instead of Blount. We kept Bolden instead of Blount. Sorry for repeating myself, but it's hard to believe. Blount had a great game last night. That said, up until last night he was 7 carries for 14 yards in two games. But he's the kind of RB that will do damage when given the chance. And that's something Bolden has failed to do in three years. I do miss his bulldozing style running.

The Cap plays a big part in why we kept Bolden and let Blount go. And you now that, why are you saying this stuff?

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

The Cap plays a big part in why we kept Bolden and let Blount go. And you now that, why are you saying this stuff?

Dafcuq is this I'm reading. I was addressing another poster and now apparently you have an issue with 'stuff' I'm posting. Should I forward my posts to you in advance for your pre-approval?

Cap plays a big part in what? Sorry, I've already outlined in this thread that keeping Blount wouldn't have cost us much. Blount signed a 2 year contract with the Steelers. This year his base salary is $900,000 with an additional signing bonus of $475,000 - total for 2014 = $1,375 million. In 2013, he took a $1 million pay cut to leave the Buccs and join us. Last year we paid him $680,000. Now when you look as his salary for this year, it would have just cost us an additional $695,000 to keep him and match his Steelers pay. Paying the guy an extra $695,000 would have been damn good value imo. This time last year we were about $4 million under the cap, today we are about $9.7 million under the cap. We didn't let Blount go because of cap space, we let him go because we are cheap bastárds.

AbusesToilets

http://www.csnne.com/blog/patriots-talk/belichick-multiple-factors-went-dobson-deactivation

Just can't buy into the reasoning behind this decision re: LaFell and Dobson/ Thompkins.

Vandango

AbusesToilets wrote: »

http://www.csnne.com/blog/patriots-talk/belichick-multiple-factors-went-dobson-deactivation

Just can't buy into the reasoning behind this decision re: LaFell and Dobson/ Thompkins.

No factor could possible explain not picking the talented Dobson, over the likes of La Fell.

eagle eye

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Dafcuq is this I'm reading. I was addressing another poster and now apparently you have an issue with 'stuff' I'm posting. Should I forward my posts to you in advance for your pre-approval?

Cap plays a big part in what? Sorry, I've already outlined in this thread that keeping Blount wouldn't have cost us much. Blount signed a 2 year contract with the Steelers. This year his base salary is $900,000 with an additional signing bonus of $475,000 - total for 2014 = $1,375 million. In 2013, he took a $1 million pay cut to leave the Buccs and join us. Last year we paid him $680,000. Now when you look as his salary for this year, it would have just cost us an additional $695,000 to keep him and match his Steelers pay. Paying the guy an extra $695,000 would have been damn good value imo. This time last year we were about $4 million under the cap, today we are about $9.7 million under the cap. We didn't let Blount go because of cap space, we let him go because we are cheap bastárds.

So we are cheap now? And foresight doesn't come into your thinking at all?

How many contracts have we to sort out in the near future? Do you not think that cap room is being saved to get this sorted with some of them.

I'm talking here about McCourty, Connolly, Cannon, Ridley, Vereen and Ghost. There are others too.

eagle eye

Vandango wrote: »

No factor could possible explain not picking the talented Dobson, over the likes of La Fell.

What has he shown to this point that makes you believe that he is actually better than those being picked ahead of him?

I've seen talent but not consistency, I've also seen injuries and lots of them.

JaMarcusHustle

I liked this, mainly because I can totally see Bill as a grumpy old guy who doesn't like technology.

Belichick got into a lengthy and interesting discussion about technology and how it has impacted the NFL during his decades of coaching.

When he began his career, Belichick wrote out plays by hand. Today, NFL players use iPads and coaches use Surface tablets on the sideline.

“When we were with the Colts [in 1975], what I did was I wrote every play on a card,” Belichick said. “I drew the play and then every category that the play fit into, I checked it off along the outside edge of the card.

“If it was first-and-10, plus-territory, gain of over 4 yards, screen pass, halfback was the receiver, the defense ran a blitz, whatever categories it fell into, then I would check those off. I would take the hole punchers, so there were like 200 holes around the edge of the card and I would punch out the holes I had checked off.

“Then you have a whole stack of cards here, slide the ice pick in there for third down, and all the third down cards drop out. Then you take all those cards and look at them and put them all back together, stick the ice pick back in there, and all the screens fall out, or whatever you’re looking at.”

As for today’s technology, Belichick admitted he’s “totally overwhelmed” and couldn’t understand much of it without some hand-holding. He credited the team’s IT specialist, Dan Famosi, and the work he’s done.

But, as Belichick noted, the ice-pick method worked.

eagle eye

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

I liked this, mainly because I can totally see Bill as a grumpy old guy who doesn't like technology.

Well I think you would be wrong to imagine him like that. He has been an innovator in football and he was clearly seen with an ipad the other day on the sideline. I couldn't ever imagine him being a guy who would want to fall behind in anything that might help him in his profession.

JaMarcusHustle

Jesus Christ eagle eye, you'd argue with your own shadow, you know that?

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

So we are cheap now?

Isn't that what I said? And shouldn't that be well known by now. I would have thought that having a GOAT QB, spending most of his career without elite WR talent sums up how cheap we are. Oh ya, you'll hear the roster spin but our FA history is littered with busts and wasted money.

eagle eye wrote: »

And foresight doesn't come into your thinking at all?

Speaking of foresight, if they had any. They should have cut Bolden and kept Blount. Looking at the figures I gave last night and subtracting Boldins 2014 contract - $575,000, from the extra to keep Blount - $695,000 means we would have only spent an extra $120,000 to keep Blount this season. So please, don't talk to me about foresight.

eagle eye wrote: »

How many contracts have we to sort out in the near future? Do you not think that cap room is being saved to get this sorted with some of them.

Contracts come up every year, that's nothing new. It's the management of money and the spending of it that's been questionable a times. Amendola has double the contract that Edelman has and he came here with average production and questionable durability. So you have to ask why did we overpay him? Edelman had a great season last year. A better season than Amendola ever had before he became a Pat. Yet we do good business with Julian and overpay Amendola. It's business bolloxology imo.

eagle eye

The only worry anybody had about Amendola when he signed was durability. He hasn't missed many games but he hasn't turned out to be the Welker clone that people thought he would be if he stayed fit.

Mistakes are made in every franchise but it's the overall picture that shows just how well the franchise is run. Consistent winning seasons and giving your team the chance to win it all season after season shows just what a great organization the Patriots are.

Let's get real here, you could pay huge money to have go at winning it all but you run the risk of failure and putting your team at risk of falling into the lower reaches of the league and not recovering for a long time. The Patriots will never do that.
The Broncos have tried and failed once already and then pumped more money at it this year but look at the precarious situation they are facing next year. This is their last shot to do it.
The Patriots will be in the hunt this year and next and the year after that. We've been to five Superbowl in the last thirteen years and won three of them. Can you name another team who has that many wins in that time or that many appearances?

If it ain't broke, why fix it?!

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

The only worry anybody had about Amendola when he signed was durability.He hasn't missed many games but he hasn't turned out to be the Welker clone that people thought he would be if he stayed fit.

Well I never wanted him signed and I said this many times in this thread during the 2013 offseason. And he then confirmed everyone's worst fears by getting injured in his first game against the Bills last year. I also said if Edelman could stay healthy, we had a player who could be as good as Welker. Edelman has stayed healthy and nobody missed Welker. Meanwhile, money continues to be wasted on an overpaid Amendola. As Fred Kirsch from PFW put it so well - "I think we're paying Amendola $5 million per catch."

eagle eye wrote: »

Mistakes are made in every franchise but it's the overall picture that shows just how well the franchise is run. Consistent winning seasons and giving your team the chance to win it all season after season shows just what a great organization the Patriots are.

Yet the one consistent and totally unforgivable mistake is, why has Brady spent most of his 15 year career without the kind of elite WR's he deserves? Why have the Pats been so cheap and taking him for granted for so long? He's a once in a lifetime player and sadly, they'll probably only really realise when he's gone.

I don't care about how great we are at our cap management. Because the one thing I can't get past, is the persistent neglect of Brady. I have a very strong feeling I'll never see his like again in a Pats jersey, or in any jersey for that matter. We'll manage the cap well, yet we'll regular piss away millions of wasters.

You'll frequently hear us saying - "Putting the team in the best position to win." And I'm sure Brady must be tired of hearing that insulting bullshít. Oh we have winning seasons, but you could also call them - Oh so nearly seasons." Yet a bit of strategic investment could have had us winning the ultimate prize a few more times.

eagle eye wrote: »

Let's get real here, you could pay huge money to have go at winning it all but you run the risk of failure and putting your team at risk of falling into the lower reaches of the league and not recovering for a long time. The Patriots will never do that.

The only 'getting real' that needs to be done, is for those who might have their heads in the sand to realise, that no, we aren't perfect, we have and we do fúck up. And who said anything about going over the cap? I thought the example I gave of the Blount finances, is a good example of how you can spend well and do good business for a minimum outlay.

In 2012, we signed DE Johnathan Fanene and we ended up having to release him over 'failure to disclose'. This is another pretty shocking example of bad Pats transactions. As a medical person, I am absolutely gobsmacked as to how a guy can be signed and manages to hide his injury status right up to before the start of the 2013 season. After final settlement, we ended up losing $2.5 million dollars over this whole debacle. Just more buffoonery if you ask me.

eagle eye wrote: »

The Broncos have tried and failed once already and then pumped more money at it this year but look at the precarious situation they are facing next year. This is their last shot to do it.

But everyone knew when they signed Manning they would be going all out to win. And why? Because they've yearned for a QB like him. That's an example of what Franchises tend to do, when they have a great QB's. They give him what he wants and put him in the best position to win.

We on the other hand, will give Brady Brandon Lloyd. Have you any idea how many passes Brady had to force feed him in 2012? It was an awful lot. He was another bright spark idea from McDaniel's, who brought him over from Denver. And what does he do? He cuts him last year and you just have to laugh at it.

Brady wasted an entire season trying to force a chemistry with another meh WR and then we end up cutting him. Meanwhile, Manning has 5 WR's who had over 60 receptions each last year. We had 1 WR with over 60 receptions last year. Says it all really.

eagle eye wrote: »

The Patriots will be in the hunt this year and next and the year after that. We've been to five Superbowl in the last thirteen years and won three of them. Can you name another team who has that many wins in that time or that many appearances?

The past and living in the past, is always a bad thing to do. And the best example I can give is as a Man United fan, I saw a lot of fans say, We're Man United, we've dominated for two decades, we're not going anywhere." Well we've had that cockiness knocked out of us last year. And I've no doubt some Pats fans think the same way. And now you're telling me that we're going to be in the SB hunt this, the next year, the year after? Yet right now, we can't even protect Brady and give him a chance. We lose Brady, and our SB chances can be flushed down the toilet.

It might be early in the season, but Brady has never been so pressured or harried so much in the pocket. Do you want to know what my aspirations are? Praying to God that we can keep Brady safe and healthy and sorting out the O line. I'm even looking to next years FA and draft, hoping we'll pump more quality into the O line. And maybe giving Brady some quality protection in his final years. It makes me sick to see all the time in the world Manning has in the pocket. If our O line hasn't seriously stepped up by week 6-7, then I'd suggest forgetting about AFC title games and SB appearance ambitions.

eagle eye

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Jesus Christ eagle eye, you'd argue with your own shadow, you know that?

No, I just gave you my thoughts on it. Do you fell like you got owned that you had to make a comment like that afterwards?

BKWDR

'owned'!?

Good lord I think i'll unfollow this thread for a while.

AbusesToilets

Watching Bears v Jets game last night put the Pats O-Line issues into stark relief. I think I saw Cutler painting his nails at one point, he had so much time.

eagle eye

@Corvus
This thing about elite receivers, where is this coming from?

We had Moss and Welker, then we had Welker, Gronk and another TE who will remain unnamed. You cannot predict the future and injuries have taken a toll too.

Brady threw for over 4000 yards every season since 2007 with the exception of the year he got injured and 2010(when he was MVP). The two years we lost in the Superbowl he threw for 4800 and 5300 yards.



If Gronk gets fully healthy we have two elite receivers in him and Edelman. If Gronk gets fully fit you will see other receivers looking good.

I'm not living in the past either, I told you that we will be serious contenders this year, next year and the year after that. I'm confident that we are going to be one of the favourites to win it all come postseason every single year as long as we have Belichick and Brady.

bruschi

I think we're fooked this year to be honest. I had really high hopes coming into it, but its all just falling away slowly. What seemed to be rustiness starting off, hasnt changed. It doesnt look like changing, and if we were to play a top team right now, we'd be destroyed. Brady is going to be broken up something awful this year. He isnt playing to his standards, whether thats to age, O line, whatever, but its not right there. There are a few players holding roster spots they dont deserve. And there are other players commanding a serious wedge of cash that they most certainly do not deserve by the way they are playing right now. Yeah, its only 3 games in, there is time to turn it around, but I can see us scraping into the playoffs and getting knocked out at the first or second go.

JaMarcusHustle

I wouldn't say we're fúcked or anything like that. We have a track record of getting better as seasons progress so as long as we're winning sloppy now, I expect things to improve as usual later on year. As long as we don't have to go to Mile High in the playoffs, I'll be content.