New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

bruschi

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

I wouldn't say we're fúcked or anything like that. We have a track record of getting better as seasons progress so as long as we're winning sloppy now, I expect things to improve as usual later on year. As long as we don't have to go to Mile High in the playoffs, I'll be content.

I meant in terms of being proper superbowl contenders. I cant see the playoffs going through Foxboro so someone will have to take the Broncos out. I cant see us doing it anyway.

eagle eye

Well I just don't get how people think we are going nowhere based on a couple of games at the start of the season.

We have often started poorly and suddenly started looking like Superbowl contenders before. In 2001 we were 1-4 and looked awful after five games but won the big one, same again in 2003 when we were 3-2 after five games. Only two years ago we were 1-2 after our first three games with the horrible loss to the Cards and losing at the Ravens and we didn't look good in either of those games. Even last year we were 4-1 but struggled to a couple of wins over the Jets and Bills but again we ended up in the AFC championship game where we bowed out to the Broncos, we had no Gronk that day and Talib went down early in the game. These are things you can do nothing about, I think we would have won that day with a healthy Gronk and with Talib staying fit, we might have won if we had one of those players for the whole game.

This year we are off to a slow start and its not the first time but we are 2-1 and its very possible that this is the worst you will see this team all year. I remember last year we were a different proposition the week after the loss to the Jets, we'll see how this one works out.

I'm not a homer, I've just seen these sluggish starts too many times with the Patriots and we still have a great season. In the postseason its all about having your best players for every game. If that happens and we lose then you have a fair reason to complain.

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

@Corvus
This thing about elite receivers, where is this coming from?

We had Moss and Welker, then we had Welker, Gronk and another TE who will remain unnamed. You cannot predict the future and injuries have taken a toll too.

Brady threw for over 4000 yards every season since 2007 with the exception of the year he got injured and 2010(when he was MVP). The two years we lost in the Superbowl he threw for 4800 and 5300 yards.


If Gronk gets fully healthy we have two elite receivers in him and Edelman. If Gronk gets fully fit you will see other receivers looking good.

I'm not living in the past either, I told you that we will be serious contenders this year, next year and the year after that. I'm confident that we are going to be one of the favourites to win it all come postseason every single year as long as we have Belichick and Brady.

Moss was a great talent before he ever came to us. Playing with Brady elevated him to superstar level. Their 2007 Brady- Moss TD record might never be beaten. The tragedy was losing Brady in 2008 with the ACL injury. Because I think he would have taken it to an even higher level. Now theirs was a truly elite connection.

The only connection I've seen come close to that elite level, is the Gronk-Brady connection before Gronk's plague of injuries started. In fact I believe if we hadn't of lost Gronk, then his connection with Brady might have even surpassed Moss. But this is 2014 and Gronk is a long way off from being the Gronk of the 2010/11 season. And until he does, I won't view him as an elite option for Brady. But all going well and maybe with some luck on the injury front, they will get back there.

Welker as we know was an UDFA and he had done absolutely nothing before he came to us. Brady like he has with many WR's, raised Welker to a whole new level. Welker goes and then Brady brings the best out of our 7th rnd pick Edelman. Edelman is now so good, people have more or less forgotten about Welker. But I don't view these same guys on the same level as Moss or Gronk, yes they are excellent. But for me Moss and Gronk were truly elite and unstoppable with Brady.

So when you ask me where is my claim coming from? To be honest, I shouldn't even need to be explaining the lack of elite WR talent Brady has had during most of his 15 year career. Because it should be pretty self evident. Apart from Branch in 2002 (2 Rnd pick) and Dobson who was also a 2 Rnd pick in 2013. Bill hasn't bothered his backside trying to draft or pick up top quality WR's for Brady. Meanwhile the defensive side of the ball is littered with 1st Rnd picks.

When I've discussed this with opposing fans, I nearly always hear the same thing "Ah you know Brady, he'd make anyone a star." Ironically, maybe Brady has been a victim of his own success. Turning unknown and passed over players into stars. Bill knows Brady always finds a way to get it done. Once I viewed this as a compliment, now I view it as a curse that has probably led to Belichick taking him for granted. Yes let's load up the defense with high picks and signings. Because good old Tom will always get by with less.

As regarding us being serious contenders? Well I think we might need to sort out a proper O line first for Brady. Last Sunday against the Raiders, we even struggled against 3 rushers. Pretty dire stuff from a team with ambitions. Now give Brady some time, allow him his reads and yes, then he'll deliver like he always has. But until that happens, I'm expecting nothing from this season.

TO.

To put it simply if the coaching staff can't improve Tom's time in the pocket we wont get anywhere near the Bowl. 2-2.30 seconds in the pocket is all he is getting right now. And due to this lack of time the only WR he sees are the ones he trusts. Which in itself is not helping.

Our O-line is sh1t and not just the rookies our experienced vets are playing like sh1t also. Brandon fooking Bolden instead of James White, Brandon Fooking LaFell who can't run routes so will never gain Brady's trust over Thompkins and Dobson who looked liked they were growing on Brady. A Rusty Gronk. Enough said.

Our defense has its issues also and they also need to get their sh1t together.

As for living in the past and saying everything will be alright because hey we have come back from behind before to win bowl. Newsflash that means jack sh1t.

EE 2001 The Tom Brady era was born so you can't compare that to now. The 3-2 start in 2003 isnt really a bad start as lets face it, it is a winning record after 5 games. But all of that means nothing anyways.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs beat us Monday. The thing about all of this is the team on whole is playing badly and before anyone mentions the Vikings game just don't as the Vikes were sh1t.

I am not writing us off but I am not going to go out and make bold statements like we are going to win it all this year either. As for being favorites what difference does that actually mean unless you are betting man? I never got why people lean on the Being Favorites thing. It means fook all really other than its just a prediction and the fact people believe you could do it or should do it or will do it.

JaMarcusHustle

eagle eye wrote: »

No, I just gave you my thoughts on it. Do you fell like you got owned that you had to make a comment like that afterwards?

Your problem is you don't realise when people are clearly taking taking the piss. It was a light hearted stab at Bill. But heck, if that's the road you want to go down then I'll post a quote from Bill himself admitting he doesn't get technology despite your revelation that you saw him holding an iPad.

New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick—who is famous for being on the cutting edge tactically—admitted that he hasn't figured it out.

"I'm totally overwhelmed by it," Belichick said. "There's no way I could without somebody holding my hand and helping me through it."

http://online.wsj.com/articles/tablets-too-complex-for-nfls-old-folks-1411500610?mod=e2tw

Hazys

Interesting article on comparing our first 3 games of last year against the first 3 games of this year (hint: we are doing slightly better than last year): http://boston.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/is-there-any-hope-for-the-patriots-offense/

So lets not panic yet.

TO.

Why do people keep using the word panic? No one on here has gone that far yet.

See that article is not telling the whole story though.

Last year we had rookies as our starting WR corp Gronk and Edelman. This year we have 2nd year guys a guy with plenty of experience Gronk and Edelman. So logic dictates that we should be doing better than last year so lets not hide behind numbers.

This year we lost to a team we should have beaten, beaten a team that made us look Bowl ready and beat a team we should have danced on.

See for me stats never show the whole story. Sure we could pull it back and make the bowl but the main point people are making is that things look worse than they did last year and in fact a long time.

Our WR corp is Gronk + Edelman. Our O-line including the experienced guys are just garbage right now and Tom Brady between having no time in the pocket is not looking confident anymore. Our coaching staff are all over the place with their playcalling.

As I said no one is panicing but if us debating what is wrong with Pats right now is considered panicing to some well then the problem is really with you not those of us who want to discuss the issues we see in our own opinions.

Really tired of being told to stop panicing or we could turn it around or trust this person trust that person etc etc I am here to debate and discuss the Patriots and football if you don't agree fair enough but spare me your panic nonsense and what ifs and what could be. All we can do is discuss game by game and the now.

eagle eye

TO, if you read back through the thread and not your own posts then I think you will have the opinion that there is or was widespread panic in this thread. That is how it has come across to me anyways.

Maybe in most cases its not meant to come across that way but it does.

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

TO, if you read back through the thread and not your own posts then I think you will have the opinion that there is or was widespread panic in this thread.

I'd love to know who these panicking posters are?

Is 'Panic' a new all encompassing term for anybody who might negatively review or critically analyse the current state/play of the team?

eagle eye

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I'd love to know who these panicking posters are?

Is 'Panic' a new all encompassing term for anybody who might negatively review or critically analyse the current state/play of the team?

No its for people whose posts come across like we are going nowhere and have no chance of winning the Superbowl based on the first three regular season games.

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

No its for people whose posts come across like we are going nowhere and have no chance of winning the Superbowl based on the first three regular season games.

Still don't know who those people are tbh.

bruschi

The stats about comparisons to when we lost to the Cards and Ravens too dont add any weight for me, as the Cards game was lost on firstly a dodgy call on Gronk for a TD called back, and then a gimme missed field goal to win by Gostkowski. And the Ravens game was one of the temporary refs highlights of why they were temporary. But even despite that, I thought we were more competitive in those games, and at least showed positive signs.

I also must be one of these panicking people who is saying we are going no where too. Despite saying that I think we will still get to the playoffs. I still stand by saying I dont think we will win the superbowl, I think the first 3 games have shown issues that I dont see being resolved fully in comparison to opposing teams right now. The O line is still a committee and full of rotations. Its not at all settled, and that is a huge issue.

If it can settle down, and if they can get some stability, then maybe Brady gets more time, and maybe the other WRs get more involved. However all those points are unknown, you can only base it on facts, and the facts right now would not have us near a superbowl.

I dont think we arent going no where, thats just exaggerating my position. Just because I dont think we win a superbowl, doesnt mean I think we have a crap team. There is still enough talent there to be a playoff team, but we are still a shade off a top tier side who will be in superbowl reckoning, which is disappointing as I thought with another year under the WRs belts, Gronk back, Revis in, that we would be a step up on last year. At the moment, I dont see us as a better side than last year, as all the above improvements I expected have been worse. The WRs are being healthy scratches, Gronk needs more time, and Revis has not been what I expected, at all.

empacher

Anybody see stork being the starting Center this week? We need someone to hold up dontari Poe.

Storks got a bit of weight on wendell, might be able to Anchor himself better.

Could wendell shift to LG?

TO.

empacher wrote: »

Anybody see stork being the starting Center this week? We need someone to hold up dontari Poe.

Storks got a bit of weight on wendell, might be able to Anchor himself better.

Could wendell shift to LG?

Stork finished out against the Raiders. This is how we finished out.

LT Solder
LG Cannon
C Stork
RG Connolly
RT Vollmer

For me that should be our strongest O-line. But as we have seen we are struggling with all of them.

I think at this point pick your 5 starters and keep them in for the whole game and stop shuffling them about. We need consistency and we wont get it rotating.

empacher

On paper it doesn't seem like a bad o line if people played to their abilities.
I'd really hope that maybe Connolly takes it on his shoulders, to really give it anyone that gets beaten or misses there assignment.

Get people into an aggressive mentality, to be looking to knock the rushers to the ground.

One thing that struck me recently was after bakers hit on foles, Jason peters said after the game. That he was there to protect his QB and he wasn't going to let anyone hit him.

Seems like a good mentality to have. Doesn't matter when the play occurred he was there to protect his QB.

Arnold Tanzarian

With the dolphins winning so easily (without moreno who caused wreck against us) tonight against an admittley bad raiders outfit without their first choice qb, maybe our first week loss to them does not look so bad now.

bruschi

Arnold Tanzarian wrote: »

With the dolphins winning so easily (without moreno who caused wreck against us) tonight against an admittley bad raiders outfit without their first choice qb, maybe our first week loss to them does not look so bad now.

Considering we struggled to beat that same Raiders team, I think it puts a lot into perspective. Dont forget the Dolphins lost by 19 to the Bills, and 29 to Kansas.

Vandango

bruschi wrote: »

Considering we struggled to beat that same Raiders team, I think it puts a lot into perspective. Dont forget the Dolphins lost by 19 to the Bills, and 29 to Kansas.

Was thinking the same thing. Dolphins easily beat the Raiders, while last week we made this Raiders team look good.

BKWDR

Don't think a late night is on the cards. Means a long day of avoiding the internet / results

JaMarcusHustle

Day booked off tomorrow

And the day after every Pats late game this year

Hazys

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-sound-efx/0ap3000000401169/Sound-FX-Inside-the-mind-of-Belichick

The complete lack of emotion when Vince intercepts the ball is kinda hilarious. Instead of celebrating and jumping around BB is doing math in his head, trying to figure out how much time they need to kill out the game.

TO.

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Day booked off tomorrow

And the day after every Pats late game this year

Im stuck in work tonight going to miss the first half. Well when I say miss I mean trying to watch while working.

kryogen

I bit the bullet and backed the guys, I have been banging the KC drum most of the week but I have convinced myself tonight the running game will get going well against them and that will open up some play action and with the Chiefs still not being that healthy, it will be enough to see us through.

All depends on the O line really

Son Of A Vidic

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Day booked off tomorrow

And the day after every Pats late game this year

Ya see that's what I'm talking about.:cool:


Like yourself, once the schedule is out, work gets planned around it.

Son Of A Vidic

A lot of chatter on twitter ect that Stork will start at Center, Fleming will be put in at RG and Connolly will be at LG. If true, that's two rookies starting and a nosiy Arrowhead will make it a baptism of fire. Last week the O line were apparently turning up very early for work ahead of the rest of the team. A numbers of reporters also commented, that Brady spent all last week stretching and jogging with the O line. Normally he does it with the receiving corp. Looks like they're banging heads together to get over the hump. Hopefully tonight we'll see them turn the corner and get the offense firing.

me89

Patriots inactives: WR Thompkins, WR Dobson, OL Kline, OL Devey, DE Moore; CB Dennard, DL Walker.

I don't even know what to say.

Son Of A Vidic

me89 wrote: »

Patriots inactives: WR Thompkins, WR Dobson..

I don't even know what to say.

me89

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

At least White is active

Deco99

me89 wrote: »

At least White is active

Where does edelman rank among the pats WRs when everyone fit?

kryogen

me89 wrote: »

Patriots inactives: WR Thompkins, WR Dobson, OL Kline, OL Devey, DE Moore; CB Dennard, DL Walker.

I don't even know what to say.

I would like to cancel my bet again