New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

me89

eagle eye wrote: »

Funny when people starting trashing the OC who was in charge when we went 16-0.

What is going on here? We have the best head coach in the NFL, we haven't had a losing season since 2000. We are 2-1 and its all out panic right here.

I read your post TO and I understand what you are saying but this is the New England Patriots and Bill Belichick we are talking about.

Anyways just came on to say that this panic stations stuff is just ridiculous imo. I'm sure everything will work out as per normal and we will go into the playoffs as one of the favourites to win the Superbowl. And if we don't, well maybe just maybe they have a two year plan or something.

Is it ok to panic now?

me89

empacher

Good to see le fell be used properly

dobman88

Yayyyyyy!!

eagle eye

me89 wrote: »

Is it ok to panic now?

Meh, I still wouldn't panic too much. Lots of work to be done but imo the personnel are there, just get them doing their job.

And that includes a certain Mr Tom Brady too, he hasn't looked that good this season. I hate saying that but it has to be said.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

Meh, I still wouldn't panic too much. Lots of work to be done but imo the personnel are there, just get them doing their job.

Honest question. What is your expectations this season?

And do you feel that if we make the Post season but fail to make the bowl do you see it as a successful season?

Vandango

eagle eye wrote: »

Meh, I still wouldn't panic too much. Lots of work to be done but imo the personnel are there, just get them doing their job.

And that includes a certain Mr Tom Brady too, he hasn't looked that good this season. I hate saying that but it has to be said.

Brady might be able to play like Brady, when he gets a proper O line in front of him. Impossible for any QB to play well behind those muppets.

TO.

Vandango wrote: »

Brady might be able to play like Brady, when he gets a proper O line in front of him. Impossible for any QB to play well behind those muppets.

There was times tonight he had time and made bad decisions. It is starting to look like it is just not his oline that are causing him to play like garbage. He has made some bad decisions over the last few games and not all of them down to the lack of protection. He is is playing without confidence and not that any of us know the real reason for it but lets face we could all guess why:

- Lack of Protection
- Lack of targets
- WR/RB running sh1t routes
- Bad playcalling.

Take your pick.

Vandango

TO. wrote: »

There was times tonight he had time and made bad decisions. It is starting to look like it is just not his oline that are causing him to play like garbage. He has made some bad decisions over the last few games and not all of them down to the lack of protection. He is is playing without confidence and not that any of us know the real reason for it but lets face we could all guess why:

- Lack of Protection
- Lack of targets
- WR/RB running sh1t routes
- Bad playcalling.

Take your pick.

A lot of reasons alright but the bottom line for me is the crap protection week in week out, is bound to rub off on any QB. Lack of confidence & trust will result in them playing badly. If they don't sort it out it's almost inevitable Brady's play will increasingly suffer.

BKWDR

Just watched condensed. Thank God I didn't stay up.
Really hard to watch... kc ran riot. Brady had a shocker though kc did a great job of covering targets. Grop had a nice spark when he came on.
Lafell pulled in some good receptions

bruschi

Dont anyone try tell me that this team, after one quarter of the season played, is a superbowl contender. Saying we are panicking when its as clear as day how bad this team has been through the first 4 games. Destroyed by Miami, beat up a really bad Vikings team without their MVP, struggled to beat probably the worst team in the league whose head coach has just been sacked, and got totally and utterly humiliated on prime time Monday night.

In other years, its usually been one or 2 small areas that have been letting us down, and little kinks that could be ironed out. But the problems this year are massive, and critical.

QB - Brady is bad. I know some are saying its the O line and bad receivers that are making him bad, but O line and receivers dont cause him to overthrow by 15 yards. O line and receivers dont cause him to regularly miss open targets when he has time. I dont know why he is so poor, but he is, and I genuinely think we are beyond the twilight of his career, and into the fade out.

O Line - is sh1t. there is no doubt about it. I'd nearly write off scraping through to the playoffs and let Stork and Fleming get as many reps as they can and build them up. Solder needs a kick up the hole. He is one of the highest paid in the league in his position, yet he looks like he couldnt give a crap. I do think they miss the leadership of Mankins, which rubs off on others, but he would not fix the huge problems there.

Receivers - Take out Edelman, he cannot be faulted for his effort and workrate so far. The rest. forget about it. Gronk isnt ready, and he is being accomodated to get back fit, which I would have no issue with if there was others to take up the slack. LaFell. No thanks. Amendola. Bust. Thompkins and Dobson. Who knows, they cant get games. Will Tyms come in now? Probably not.

Running backs - a symptom of the bad O line, but they have potential IMO. Ridley seems a bit surer (cue fumble in next game now) and Vereen is a good option. But still, our running game as a whole is crap.

D line - average. Tommy Kelly is a loss, and Wilfork cant do it all on his own. Vellano tries hard, but doesnt have the same presence.

Line backers - so so. They show some good plays, but where does Chandler Jones go. I havent seen enough of the game last night, and only flicked in and out of the Raiders game to definitively call where he is, but he really only works on a 4-3 on the edge. He is lost in a 3-4 set on the line, or in a 3-4 if he is in coverage.

Secondary - Revis is a pain in the hole. We brought in a specialist corner on a massive deal, to be one of the best in the league, definitely top 5. And what is he? Average. The signs were there on him though. All through camp it was commented on that he gave up on plays. If he thought it was over, he'd stop playing. Others compared that to Moss, but at least with a receiver, he wont cost you. It was said he was a tough trainer and so competitive in training, yet he didnt show that at all in his camp play. And so it proves to pass in the season that he is only so so. The unsettling of the second safety spot is a disaster too. Browner is to come in now too, but he doesnt sound like he will be any better, and if his play in pre season is anything to go by, he'll be lucky to make the 53.

If the above sounds like panicking, then so be it. I'm not going to sit here and say oh it'll come good, we're the Patriots and we have Belichick and Brady to lead us, it'll all be fine. It wont, and its arrogance to think that just because we've had success before and things worked out despite poor results. At least when we had poro results we had some sort of performance to give some hope. The run of winning the AFC East is coming to an end, and after the first 4 games, I think it will end this year.

If that is too negative, then so be it. I'm just being realistic. At the moment, we are an 8-8 team, not crap, but not good.

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

Maybe missing out on the playoffs wouldnt be the worst thing for the organisation?

I will repeat this as maybe it would force people in the organisation to really look at how things are being done and see if maybe it could be improved upon, everything from player recruitment to coaching and especially feckin play calling on the offence!

I like Josh, I really do, but he is testing me this season. If its the same type of thing next week, with the same players actived and de activated (bar maybe LaFell who has earned himself a start in fairness) I will really start to lose faith I think.

I hope they left Amendola in Kansas.

bruschi

what gets me is that BB always says it is a simple game, and to do the basics right. But we complicate so many things. We arent doing the simple things right, we are doing complicated things wrong. Instead of over thinking and trying all these mad things, just do the basics and let the team skills win. And then once some confidence and ability comes through, try the change ups and the odd things to surprise the opposition.

kryogen

Agreed, you could see it when the Jimmy came in, the play book was simplified and I know the Chiefs were in cruising mode and not as intense but you could see it made a positive difference, just making good runs, running quick routes and releasing the ball quickly. The running back just going forward instead of bouncing around.

What is the story with Ridley? Comes in, gains 5 yards or so, comes straight out next play. Boggles the mind how regularly that happened

Putin

bruschi wrote: »

QB - Brady is bad. I know some are saying its the O line and bad receivers that are making him bad, but O line and receivers dont cause him to overthrow by 15 yards. O line and receivers dont cause him to regularly miss open targets when he has time.

I couldn't disagree more. Yes there have been overthrown passes and some bad decisions. But Christ yer O line is a complete joke. Put any QB playing behind those fools and their play is going to deteriorate. I watched Rodgers play diabolical two/three games back and why? Because he had no protection. I've seen my team in the same boat, when Brees played some terrible games behind a dire O line. And because of this I've seen Brees throw to phantom WR's & make some terrible plays. But it's not QB's who I blame, it's playing behind **** O lines. When a QB has no faith in an O line, then brace yourselves because crazy plays are bound to follow.

If I was a Pats fan, the first step I would take is to get rid of Josh McDaniel's. The guy is just useless. Any time I've seen ye play, even when you had a decent O line. McDaniels will always pull out some ridiculous, stuff. Why does he always overcomplicate things? And what's with his fixation with running the ball on Third downs? No better way to insult a defense than by running on Third down. McDaniels seems to like smart ass plays, when often the simple approach would be more effective. Hard to believe yer once great offense has been reduced to this. And there seems to have been a steady decline since McDaniel's came back.

Amazing that ye invested so much in defense and they play so poorly. I think ye have enough talent but something's not working and I think it's down to schemes and coaching. Even non-Pats know it's Bill Belichick's defense, not Matt Particia's defense. So the buck has to stop at Belichick. One of you guys made a great comparison awhile back. When he compared the Pats to Man United. Ye have reached a point where a stubborn HC that has control over everything, is now probably doing more damage to the team. Ferguson was overlord at United, yet look at the problems they've had since he left. Great coaches often have a stubborn streak and in time, it usually catches up with them. Maybe it's time Belichick was just HC and nothing else, maybe it's time to devolve some powers at Gillette.

BizzyC

Unlike many of the guys who were out there, I have confidence that Brady can do better under different circumstances.

The O-line is woefully poor, Solder is looking worse as time goes on.
The D-line is unstable, I thought the 3-4 would work but then they got rid of Kelly and we became too soft in the front 3 to pull it off.
Revis is looking poor, he's giving.
With the exception of Edelman, the receivers are not on Brady's page.
Gronk is far from 100%.

We need a new OC who can make better use of our players.
Josh did a great job with a great offense, but he's struggled with mediocre players, as he is now.

O-line needs a complete rebuild.
D-line needs beefing up to ease the strain on the backers.
I actually think we could succeed with the receivers we have if we had a running game to speak of plus a healthy gronk.

Realalemadrid

As a Patriots Fan for years - I'm a long time listener / first time caller to this thread.

Could someone tell me how I'm supposed to be feeling this afternoon? The Patriots didn't lose a regular season game by more than 1 score for the bones of 4 years but in the space of a month we've gotten owned by the Fins and now absolutely torn asunder by the Chiefs - neither of whom are winning the superbowl any time soon.

Someone tell me the Hoodie has a plan and instead of fluking our way to the 12-4 type record we are going to sneak into the Playoffs off the back of a rollercoaster 9-7 / 10-6 season and by the time we get there everything will be ok.

Thank you.

BKWDR

Realalemadrid wrote: »

Someone tell me the Hoodie....

waits in the shadows for Corv

kryogen

The Hoodie has a plan, but it certainly isn't working thus far....I still have faith he will adjust and the team will improve, but I am basing that on his and Bradys record more then anything else because this season has been getting worse and worse.

Realalemadrid wrote: »

As a Patriots Fan for years - I'm a long time listener / first time caller to this thread.

Could someone tell me how I'm supposed to be feeling this afternoon? The Patriots didn't lose a regular season game by more than 1 score for the bones of 4 years but in the space of a month we've gotten owned by the Fins and now absolutely torn asunder by the Chiefs - neither of whom are winning the superbowl any time soon.

Someone tell me the Hoodie has a plan and instead of fluking our way to the 12-4 type record we are going to sneak into the Playoffs off the back of a rollercoaster 9-7 / 10-6 season and by the time we get there everything will be ok.

Thank you.

JaMarcusHustle

Realalemadrid wrote: »

Someone tell me the Hoodie has a plan and instead of fluking our way to the 12-4 type record we are going to sneak into the Playoffs off the back of a rollercoaster 9-7 / 10-6 season and by the time we get there everything will be ok.

I'd like to tell you that, but you know that defence you saw last night? The one that had given up over 300 yards in the first half alone?

Yeah, they have to play Broncos this year. And the Packers. And the Bears. And the Chargers, Lions, Bengals and Colts. Based on what we've seen so far this season, we neither have the talent on defence to stop them, nor the talent on offence to keep up with them.

It's going to be a long season. I will be surprised if we get double digit wins this year.

Bateman

https://vine.co/v/OmzjIi1EgtF

paulie21

Time for the organisation to make serious changes. A general manager has to be hired to handle player evaluation and contracts. Too many good guys are been let walk out the door over the sake of a couple of million (Welker, Blount and Talib etc)

Belichick likes players who have smarts but what's the point of having smart players with no talent.

Charlie Weis recently fired as head coach of Kansas should come back as offensive co-ordinator. We won 3 superbowls with him at the helm with a worse offense than we have now and made Matt Cassel a pro bowl Qb at the Chiefs

TO.

Putin wrote: »

I couldn't disagree more. Yes there have been overthrown passes and some bad decisions. But Christ yer O line is a complete joke. Put any QB playing behind those fools and their play is going to deteriorate. I watched Rodgers play diabolical two/three games back and why? Because he had no protection. I've seen my team in the same boat, when Brees played some terrible games behind a dire O line. And because of this I've seen Brees throw to phantom WR's & make some terrible plays. But it's not QB's who I blame, it's playing behind **** O lines. When a QB has no faith in an O line, then brace yourselves because crazy plays are bound to follow.

Yes his oline is awful but both of those interceptions last night were Bradys fault. Of course if his Oline were better he would be more confident and killing it like he always does but lets not give full blame to the Oline. Brady is making bad decision after bad decision if with good protection. Both of those ints he had 3-4 seconds and protection he is used to and both he made awful decisions:

If I was a Pats fan, the first step I would take is to get rid of Josh McDaniel's. The guy is just useless. Any time I've seen ye play, even when you had a decent O line. McDaniels will always pull out some ridiculous, stuff. Why does he always overcomplicate things? And what's with his fixation with running the ball on Third downs? No better way to insult a defense than by running on Third down. McDaniels seems to like smart ass plays, when often the simple approach would be more effective. Hard to believe yer once great offense has been reduced to this. And there seems to have been a steady decline since McDaniel's came back.

I am not Josh biggest fan right now but I wonder if it is actually all him with the play calling or is there influence from Bill still. Him and Bill have the same mentality when it comes to play calling.

Amazing that ye invested so much in defense and they play so poorly.

Have we though? Signing 1 top player in Revis and another suspended guy and some other rookies and releasing 1 top player and some others isnt really investing. Just rinse and wash. Revis is not playing anywhere near the standard any of us expected.

I think ye have enough talent but something's not working and I think it's down to schemes and coaching. Even non-Pats know it's Bill Belichick's defense, not Matt Particia's defense. So the buck has to stop at Belichick. One of you guys made a great comparison awhile back. When he compared the Pats to Man United. Ye have reached a point where a stubborn HC that has control over everything, is now probably doing more damage to the team. Ferguson was overlord at United, yet look at the problems they've had since he left. Great coaches often have a stubborn streak and in time, it usually catches up with them. Maybe it's time Belichick was just HC and nothing else, maybe it's time to devolve some powers at Gillette.

I agree and I disagree but that is another days debate and I have to head to work. I have made my feeling known on here before about how i see Bill's running of the team.

AbusesToilets

About the only positives I saw last night were some improved production out of LaFell and the special teams effort on punts were top notch.

kryogen

Slater has been the only bright point of the season so far.

LaFell did well last night I thought, for the first time.

me89

That was horrible last night, worst performance I can remember since the Saints match a few years ago. This week could make or break our season, it will be interesting to see how the players react.

We have Browner and Tyms back this week I wonder what kind of impact they will have???

vetinari

The thing about the defence is that the offence effectively gave up 17 of the points.
Take those out and Kansas scored 24.
Not amazing by any stretch but certainly winnable.
Indeed when you consider the offense started with what 5 punts, fumble, interception it looks even better!

kryogen

We were awful on both sides of the ball. Just awful.

DarByrne1980

is it just me or does Tom Brady just look a little lost against the Chiefs obviously but before that against the Raiders. probably could do with more protection from the offensive line but it looks like hes just tossing the ball into the air. maybe he just does not have the same swagger he had over the years

kryogen

Tom looks like a guy who is getting hit a **** load of times each game and who 9 times out of 10 has about .6 seconds to make a decision.

Give him a strong O line and some real passing options and I think he gets back to good form, he is playing like a man with no confidence in his O line, because most likely he is a guy with no confidence in his O line. I would also wager he isn't totally happy with a lot of the play calling, Rodgers looked like a **** qb too when he was getting zero protection but we all know he isn't.

Brady still has a year or two left in him at a high level imo, but his 30's have been wasted for the most part with him being handicapped by his weapons most years. The focus should have been on getting him as many serious pass catching threats as possible so he can have the best chance of taking the team to a superbowl. This didnt happen sadly.