New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

Son Of A Vidic

From the ESPN website......

BizzyC

Very disappointed to see Thompkins being picked off waivers by the Raiders.

I was shocked that we cut him in the first place, but hopefully he'll get a better chance at the Raiders to make a name for himself.

Tristram

Watched the Bengals game there yesterday. I can't get over how bad La Fell is. I knew he was hit and miss with the Panthers but I really believed he would improve significantly. It's not just his bad hands that annoy but his apparent lack of awareness of what's happening or could happen on any given play.

Amendola... yikes. When I saw him go down and hold his hamstring after that first (and only?) reception my only thought was that at least Dobson might get more snaps as a result.

Delighted to see Ridley being involved more. To my mind he has not been treated fairly by media and fans. Yes he is prone to fumbling but he is still an excellent RB and really gives an added and much needed dimension to the offense. I want to see him used like that in every game and I know he is going to fumble but I don't want to see him sat. Just keep sending him out there. Benching surely has been of no help to him.

Wright did well but the Bengals were poor in coverage. Also think that they left some scores on the field. Gio Bernard would have had a clear route to the endzone if he had managed to hold on to one thrown to him on the sideline in the first half. Brady really should have been picked early on. Few other plays that just fell the Pats way, but that's football.

Buffalo will be interesting. Pity that Orton is in now as I think he makes their offense significantly better.

edit: noone complaining about the draw on 3rd-long that Vereen magically converted to a first down

empacher

Tristram wrote: »

edit: noone complaining about the draw on 3rd-long that Vereen magically converted to a first down

I was waiting for someone to bring that up. I think it was around the 35? I think the reasoning behind it was, bringing into a more comfortable field goal range. While also draining another 40 secs off the clock. At that stage of the game with a leaf. 3 points and time wasted is better then. A really long fg attempt and the possibility of good field position if the kick is missed.

Vandango

Tristram wrote: »

Brady really should have been picked early on. Few other plays that just fell the Pats way, but that's football.

Brady had way too much zing on that ball for Bernard to catch it. And I think the Pats victory had more to do with them totally outplaying the Bengals in every facet of the game. Than it being a case of just some plays that fell their way.

AbusesToilets

Tristram wrote: »

Watched the Bengals game there yesterday. I can't get over how bad La Fell is. I knew he was hit and miss with the Panthers but I really believed he would improve significantly. It's not just his bad hands that annoy but his apparent lack of awareness of what's happening or could happen on any given play.

Amendola... yikes. When I saw him go down and hold his hamstring after that first (and only?) reception my only thought was that at least Dobson might get more snaps as a result.

Delighted to see Ridley being involved more. To my mind he has not been treated fairly by media and fans. Yes he is prone to fumbling but he is still an excellent RB and really gives an added and much needed dimension to the offense. I want to see him used like that in every game and I know he is going to fumble but I don't want to see him sat. Just keep sending him out there. Benching surely has been of no help to him.

Wright did well but the Bengals were poor in coverage. Also think that they left some scores on the field. Gio Bernard would have had a clear route to the endzone if he had managed to hold on to one thrown to him on the sideline in the first half. Brady really should have been picked early on. Few other plays that just fell the Pats way, but that's football.

Buffalo will be interesting. Pity that Orton is in now as I think he makes their offense significantly better.

edit: noone complaining about the draw on 3rd-long that Vereen magically converted to a first down

I'd agree with you re: Ridley. If you compare him to Murray, he has known fumbling issues but the Cowboys don't let that get in the way of making use of his exceptional talents. Players are going to drop the ball in a game with impacts as ballistic as Football. Seems silly and counter productive to hold RBs to a No Fumble policy.

Tristram

Vandango wrote: »

Brady had way too much zing on that ball for Bernard to catch it. And I think the Pats victory had more to do with them totally outplaying the Bengals in every facet of the game. Than it being a case of just some plays that fell their way.

I should have specified which play. I don't actually know what you are talking about. Just brought the game back up there. 4:15 in the first Brady tries to hit Edelman and throws behind him right into the hands of Emmanuel Lamur. Very bad throw but LB doesn't make the play. Next play Brady hits Gronk for a big gain. Next play Brady to Wright for the second TD.

Also, I hope my initial post didn't make it sound like the Pats were undeserving winners or didn't play well, I just think that it wasn't as "great" performance. Maybe the fact that they had been so poor beforehand just makes the Bengals performance stand out even more by comparison?

eagle eye

Tristram wrote: »

Watched the Bengals there yesterday. I can't get over how bad La Fell is. I knew he was hit and miss with the Panthers but I really believed he would improve significantly. It's not just his bad hands that annoy but his apparent lack of awareness of what's happening or could happen on any given play.

Ok, I'm not defending that badly run route on Sunday night but the week before he had 119 receiving yards and a td. The reason I'm picking on this is because of something you say later on.

Delighted to see Ridley being involved more. To my mind he has not been treated fairly by media and fans. Yes he is prone to fumbling but he is still an excellent RB and really gives an added and much needed dimension to the offense. I want to see him used like that in every game and I know he is going to fumble but I don't want to see him sat. Just keep sending him out there. Benching surely has been of no help to him.

Firstly you are picking on LaFell for his faults and now you are saying that if Ridley fumbles he should not be sat? Come on, can we have some consistency here. If Ridley fumbles the ball twice on our twenty yard line its more than likely two tds given to the opposition. Why give him the opportunity to do the second one?.
Like LaFell didn't have a great game Sunday night but he did the previous Monday. Ridley had a bad game the previous Monday but a great game Sunday night.
How about we give the same amount of opportunities to both of them to show what they can do? If they make a really bad play then bench them for a while. LaFell got it from Brady after he gave up on the route the other night. He came back in and was unlucky not to catch a td pass from Brady. I think he is going to turn into a really good receiver with the Patriots.

Wright did well but the Bengals were poor in coverage. Also think that they left some scores on the field. Gio Bernard would have had a clear route to the endzone if he had managed to hold on to one thrown to him on the sideline in the first half. Brady really should have been picked early on. Few other plays that just fell the Pats way, but that's football.

I think you are over-analysing things here. We were in total control of that game. Our Offense beat up the Bengals D and our D beat up the Bengals offense.

Buffalo will be interesting. Pity that Orton is in now as I think he makes their offense significantly better.

edit: noone complaining about the draw on 3rd-long that Vereen magically converted to a first down

Crucial game coming up, we need a win there to take the lead in the division.

Tristram

eagle eye wrote: »

How about we give the same amount of opportunities to both of them to show what they can do? ... I think he is going to turn into a really good receiver with the Patriots.

That's fair enough alright. I'm all for giving players the time and opportunity to improve and prove themselves. I thought La Fell would have contributed much more by now though but maybe that's unfair. He was very hit and miss with the Panthers and I think I mistakenly put that down to them misusing him or blamed Newton. He is getting a huge amount of snaps so the Pats obviously think he is doing or will do something right. I really do hope you're right about him turning into a really good receiver!

kryogen

eagle eye wrote: »

Like LaFell didn't have a great game Sunday night but he did the previous Monday. Ridley had a bad game the previous Monday but a great game Sunday night.

Crucial game coming up, we need a win there to take the lead in the division.

Just to comment on one point, Ridley was averaging about 5 yards a carry the Monday night, he was not having a bad game, he just wasn't used enough. He would come in on first down, gain 5 yards and be taken straight out the next play, was ridiculous. I think it is certainly no coincidence that the more touches he gets the better that offence plays also, establishing the run was crucial to what happened against the Bengals, and in every game you need to establish the run game anyway.

When LaFell gave up on that route you knew he wasn't going to see too many passes for the rest of the night but he had improved the week before and made a good catch very first play so I am happy he is at least progressing

Son Of A Vidic

kryogen wrote: »

When LaFell gave up on that route you knew he wasn't going to see too many passes for the rest of the night but he had improved the week before and made a good catch very first play so I am happy he is at least progressing

La Fell has 11 receptions from 28 targets. Or he's caught only 39% of passes. Pretty poor stuff by any standard. What worries me about him and we've already seen it, is what Panthers fans were saying about him. They've tended to say he was very inconsistent during his time with them. Will catch a nice pass and then miss two or three. Precisely what you don't want to be depend on. 1 for 4 against the Bengals is not good and he needs to start picking it up in the coming weeks or Brady will stop forcing the ball to him.

Right now I'm really excited about Wright. He looks like he's beginning to settle into the offense and showed us his talent against the Bengals. With Gronk beginning to look like Gronk again and Wright getting incorporated more into the offense. We could be on our way back to having the kind of elite TE tandem that once terrorised the league. If anything, this Wright kid looks better that the scumbag and has much better hands. He has 9 receptions from 10 targets. so he's caught 90% of all passes. Impressive stuff from the kids and I hoping he can go from strength to strength.

JaMarcusHustle

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

We could be on our way back to having the kind of elite TE tandem that once terrorised the league. If anything, this Wright kid looks better than the scumbag and has much better hands.

Ah here, that's madness!

Vandango

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Ah here, that's madness!

Write off another opinion and don't bother your arse to explain why. Isn't this the kind of posting the Mods want ended?

UnitedIrishman

Vandango wrote: »

Great post. :rolleyes:


Write off another opinion and don't bother your arse to explain why. Isn't this the kind of posting the Mods want ended?

To be fair, produce stats that says Wright can post better figures than Hernandez and then your retort will be warranted. And that's as another teams fan.

And Corvus that's not to say you're wrong but only time will tell I think. I definitely think New England function far better as a whole with a 2 TE plan that mixes things up and if Wright can be the other guy along with Gronk then Brady can suddenly have fun again against opposition defenses.

Vandango

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

To be fair, produce stats that says Wright can post better figures than Hernandez and then your retort will be warranted. And that's as another teams fan.

Can you tell me, where did I even mentioned Wright or give an opinion on him in my last post?

JaMarcusHustle

There is absolutely no need whatsoever for me to elaborate on why Tim Wright, with his 9 catches for 120 yards and 1 TD for the Patriots, is not better than Aaron Hernandez who was one of the best move TEs the NFL has ever seen.

bruschi

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

There is absolutely no need whatsoever for me to elaborate on why Tim Wright, with his 9 catches for 120 yards and 1 TD for the Patriots, is not better than Aaron Hernandez who was one of the best move TEs the NFL has ever seen.

absolutely. Wright had a nice game, but its far, far too early to be even considering him better than Hernandez. For all Hernandez's faults off the field, he was a superb player and very adaptable. In time, Wright may end up better, but there is no way you could call it so early.

I'm encouraged by him too mind, but as said, its too early now.

kryogen

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Right now I'm really excited about Wright. He looks like he's beginning to settle into the offense and showed us his talent against the Bengals. With Gronk beginning to look like Gronk again and Wright getting incorporated more into the offense. We could be on our way back to having the kind of elite TE tandem that once terrorised the league. If anything, this Wright kid looks better that the scumbag and has much better hands. He has 9 receptions from 10 targets. so he's caught 90% of all passes. Impressive stuff from the kids and I hoping he can go from strength to strength.

I wouldnt say he looks better then him, but he does look like he could be an adequate replacement and a genuine option for Brady, with himself and Gronk (fully fit) on the field it will cause chaos for any defence, there will have to be a mis match somewhere

Happy with the start he has made

kryogen

Vandango wrote: »

Great post. :rolleyes:


Write off another opinion and don't bother your arse to explain why. Isn't this the kind of posting the Mods want ended?

Just saw this, it is madness to say he looks better then Hernandez, he doesnt. Maybe JaMarcus could have been a bit more PC like me for example, but his post is pretty accurate

BaronVon

On a lighter note.......

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24742326/ex-patriots-lineman-tom-brady-can-chug-beer-faster-than-his-o-line

kryogen

Another article from that site, which touches on how a lot of people feel regarding the Patriots, particularly the comparisons to the Broncos and Manning

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24735847/bart-scott-patriot-way-mentality-helped-depleted-new-england-roster?tid=1412406507

"Right now the difference between Denver and New England is Denver's all in. They gave Peyton all he needed because they know he only has two or three years in him," Scott said. "Brady only has two or three years in him. Why aren't you trying to win a championship before this guy gets out of there?

eagle eye

The reason they are not all in is that they to continue having winning seasons and be in the playoffs every single season. Its something that has worked for 13 seasons and counting.

We have been to five Superbowls in 13 years doing it this way.

Also on Wright, he has 63 receptions for 691 yards and 6 tds. Thats through 8 starts and 21 games in total. An average of 11 yards per reception.

That other horrible creature had 175 receptions for 1956 yards and 18 tds. He averaged 11.2 yards per reception.

If you give Wright his average stats based on his career to date and that is a fair enough sample to go on, he would have 1920 yards and 17 tds with the same amount of receptions as that other thing.

So his overall stats have him faring minimally worse.

Wright has caught 90% of the balls thrown his way this season and caught 71.1% last season. The other thing averaged around 66% over his short career.

When you consider that he was with the Bucs and his averages since he came to New England are much higher then it bodes well and it is time to get excited I think.

Son Of A Vidic

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Ah here, that's madness!

Good man, dismiss an opinion and don't bother explaining why. Just what we don't need more of around here.

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

There is absolutely no need whatsoever for me to elaborate on why Tim Wright, with his 9 catches for 120 yards and 1 TD for the Patriots, is not better than Aaron Hernandez who was one of the best move TEs the NFL has ever seen.

Personally, I think it's only the decent thing to elaborate on the reasoning why you disagree with somebody. Just a pity it took another poster to get you to expand a little on your initial post.


First time since early 2012 that we had TE's score in a game. A time when nobody could handle our TE offense and we had the best offense in the league. Wright and scumbag are almost identical players, but Wright is several inches taller, has a wider catch radius and a bigger vertical jump and despite combine data, Wright looked faster to me somehow. His blocking needs improving, but it's not as bad as scumbag's. That guy couldn't even block a toilet never mind an opponent. He has caught an impressive 90% of passes and I compared his production to La Fells, just to highlight how efficient Wright has been when given the chance on the field. In his career so far, Wright has demonstrated better hands than scumbag because up to a comparative point in their careers, he has caught more balls.

He has one full season with the Buccs and yet while playing in an offense that was in turmoil and had some rubbish QB's throwing the ball to him. He put up these numbers - 54 receptions on 76 targets for 570 yards, 5 TD's and a 71% catch rate with 0 Fumbles. Very good numbers considering the JAG QB's he had to depend on. Now as he learns the offense more and gets more time on the field with Brady. There is a good chance their chemistry will only get better. Tim Wright came to the Pats with no preseason & no camp. Ochocinco a 3 time All Pro and 6 time Pro Bowler couldn't find Route 66, never mind run a right route for Brady. Trying to learn the most complex offensive playbook in the league is no mean feat. The fact that Wright hasn't put a for wrong on the field bodes well for the future. This team has really needed a ‘Joker’ TE and now we finally have one again and I think he could be better. The guy has been near perfect every time he’s been targeted. All going well, I think he will become a very valuable weapon for the offense.

And my bold prediction is, if he stays healthy and gets a similar number of snaps than his predecessor, then Wright will erase the stain off the No. 81 jersey.

Hazys

Guys this thread is becoming intolerable. Any time somebody posts something or has a minor throw away comment people jump on it (condescendingly at times) if they slightly disagree on it and causes a massive row that goes on for pages arguing over nothing really. Relax everybody its just the inter-webs.


I don't think its a crazy opinion to compare Hernandez and Wright and i dont think its crazy to disagree with the comparison as its early days in Wright's career and he has a lot to prove.


Hernandez and Wright have almost identical combine numbers:



Their first season stats are pretty close too (not to mention the caliber of offense each TE played with at the time):

Hernandez's first season stats:
Rec: 45 Tgts: 64 Yards: 563 TDs: 6 PMC: 3*

Wright's first season stats:
Rec: 54 Tgts: 74 Yards: 571 TDs: 5 PMC: 0*

*Potential Murders Committed

Vandango

Hazys wrote: »

Guys this thread is becoming intolerable. Any time somebody posts something or has a minor throw away comment people jump on it

Aren't provocative throw away comments precisely what the Mods don't want here. So why even make them in the first place? All they do is cause s**t.

Hazys

Vandango wrote: »

Aren't provocative throw away comments precisely what the Mods don't want here. So why even make them in the first place? All they do is cause s**t.

What i meant by throw away comments are for example:

A person writes a paragraph on analyzing the Patriots game. One comment in the paragraph says Tim Wright is better than Hernandez, people jump on a that minor point/throw away comment. I don't think in that instance people were being provocative.

Vandango

Hazys wrote: »

What i meant by throw away comments are for example:

A person writes a paragraph on analyzing the Patriots game. One comment in the paragraph says Tim Wright is better than Hernandez, people jump on a that minor point/throw away comment. I don't think in that instance people were being provocative.

The guy who said 'looks' better was giving his opinion. I can't see how anyone could view a well thought out opinion as being provocative. But my bad, we were talking about different things. I was talking about the rude 4 word response that rubbished an honest opinion without any explanation.

JaMarcusHustle

Fair enough, I'll hold my hands up and admit my response was condescending and provocative and was guilty of doing what I've complained about others doing. Corvus is a poster I respect and have a high opinion of, so hopefully he knows it was nothing personal and I apologise.

I do however strongly disagree that Tim Wright has looked better than Hernandez, so that's my take on this "argument". I know Corv, like the rest of us, is just relieved that we finally seem to be back to 2 TE sets with 2 capable TEs to boot so that's something we can agree on at the very least.

kryogen

I just don't see it personally, even to look at Hernandez was so much more of a handful to play against, he was more physically imposing and stronger, quicker through the routes etc

It is early days for White and I am delighted to see a genuine threat (and thats what I believe he is) for Brady to throw to with confidence, when we get himself and Gronk playing together and in a good rhythm with Brady I think they can have production levels similar to, maybe and hopefully even better then the production generated when Hernandez was there.

Comparing stats is all well and good but they are not conclusive, Gronk was the number 1 go to guy for Brady to throw at during Hernandez days, there was also Welker to be competing with for targets, as was said, the Tampa offence didn't have those kind of targets so the stats are not possible to really compare like for like.

I don't think there is a need for anyone to fall out over it of course We are all happy that Wright looks like he could be a big player for us this year, he is not a big TE but he is certainly capable in the position and just the sheer confidence it will give Brady to throw at him can only be good for the team.

Things certainly look alot better then they did this time last week anyway! If we can now integrate Dobson as a deep threat I would be a very, very happy man. I don't think it was any coincidence either that Ridley was given more touches and the offence looked much better for it. No fumble either which is great and of course a mention should go to Vereen who actually had a fantastic game

kryogen

The internet deleted my more detailed post about this, but can anyone tell me how to upload stuff from my pc to cloud, or onedrive or whatever the thing is people can download it from? A guy is looking for a copy of Superbowl XX (Bears v Pats) from me and Superbowl XXVI (Greatest Show on Turf v Pats including all pre game, post game stuff, interviews with Brady/Bledsoe/Warner etc, one of my prized possession! )

Anyone who wants them, among others I have is welcome to them too of course, just tell me how!