New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

I remember a couple of people giving out about Browner in preseason play, I think his performances so far in the regular season show just how irrelevant the preseason is. I suppose the same applied to LaFell too.

As for LaFell for me he is still hot and cold. Its fantastic that Brady likes him and he is making catches but more than enough his drops are ridiculous and his route running has let him down more than once over the last few games. If he fixes those issues he will be huge for us considering Brady likes him so much. Too many WR over the years for us have looked good at times but when it mattered let us down. Those drops could be costly in the playoffs.

paulie21

Bradys better chant in Foxborough

eagle eye

TO. wrote: »

As for LaFell for me he is still hot and cold. Its fantastic that Brady likes him and he is making catches but more than enough his drops are ridiculous and his route running has let him down more than once over the last few games. If he fixes those issues he will be huge for us considering Brady likes him so much. Too many WR over the years for us have looked good at times but when it mattered let us down. Those drops could be costly in the playoffs.

Ah come on man, his last four games he has done very well. He has over 500 yards and 5 tds on the season so far.

I don't know what you are looking for, players do drop balls, he isn't Randy Moss but he is a real good receiver.

As for Browner, despite the penalties he is playing great for us.

j8wk2feszrnpao

I don't think you can over look the penalties.
And you're being very generous with "great".

He's being far from rubbish though; and I'll give him some slack after missing the first games, and tonight he's up against some of the best receivers out there.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

Ah come on man, his last four games he has done very well. He has over 500 yards and 5 tds on the season so far.

I don't know what you are looking for, players do drop balls, he isn't Randy Moss but he is a real good receiver.

As for Browner, despite the penalties he is playing great for us.

Come on what? That is my opinion of him. I didn't say he was bad I just said he blows hot and cold and he is making far too many mistakes. For a guy who Brady loves throwing to he needs to make em count because we can't afford WR any of them dropping them when the playoffs come. Brady makes it easy for WR to catch footballs. As for his route running that is sh1t he needs to fix as twice tonight he was at fault for passes going by him.

As for Browner again I never said he wasn't great/good/effective. Don't confuse what I said about either player. I never said either of them are doing bad. I said they could be better and with Browner those penalties need to stop. As if he doesn't fix that it could be the difference in a playoff game that is close.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Let's keep a few starters out of the game for the last 2mins.
Don't want to pick an uneccessary injury!

kryogen

Wow

Not taking my jersey off tonight! That was impressive

j8wk2feszrnpao

Excellent win.
Got to give a pat on the back to the OL; tough oppenent and they did a great job.
TB did the rest with Gronk and Co.
TB now moves to 11:5 against Manning.

Defence had a good night overall. Far from perfect; but up against a quality attack, they did enough and 21pts is a target our offence can match.

Can now go to sleep a very happy Pats fan

bruschi

bruschi wrote: »

I don't want to over react like some supporters of other teams on here, but I'm slowly coming to the thought that not only will we miss playoffs this year, but we will be in free fall. Brady's time is coming sooner than I thought it would, and in Bill we trust is a load of crock now and I see his time coming soon too. All the years spent preparing for the future instead of loading a team and go all out to win was a waste. Nothing to show for it only division titles, and a waste of having one of the best QB in league history. So much lost potential.

I don't care if that is called panicking or if it sounds too defeatist, I genuinely think the ride is slowing down, and we'll be back to mid league obscurity soon. It had to come. The on field performances, and the really obscure off field ones really leaves me questioning where the team is heading.

And obviously I'll flip flop back to everything is great if we beat the Bengals!

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

what a dumb post.

seriously though, that was a superb performance last night. And the best thing about it, is I genuinely think there is more in the tank. Amendola is still on the fringes of the offence and can contribute more. There was a few drops by LaFell and Vereen in particular. The run game is still getting to grips with the loss of Ridley and Gray is an untested player so the more game time, the better he can be. Browner needs to cop onto the new interpretation of contact at the line and beyond it. Jones to come back in, and Ayers still getting used to the system is already making plays. There is another level left in this team, and last night was far from the finished article. Its now about ensuring we maintain a consistency in our play and pray to the football gods that we stay healthy, Brady and Gronk in particular. Everytime Gronk gets a hit I wince. Every single time.

Brady was excellent last night. He was under a lot of pressure and hurried a lot of times, hit numerous times on the throw, but he still managed to find space and passes. The long conversions made me very happy. No stupid draws, or no delayed plays, just straight up giving the ball in the hand of our best player who invariably found our second and third best players for long completions. 6-16 on third downs, but a few of them came late on when the clock was winding down, and we got a 4th conversion too.

The long touchdown drive through the end of the third into the 4th quarter was key. 14 plays taking nearly 7 minutes of the clock, and extending the drive and getting the score, it just cemented the score when there was a feint glint of hope to Denver.

It was also nice to see Brady over take Elway in yards last night too!

Onwards and upwards though. The next couple of games are going to be as tough. But we are finally seeing a team who can compete and contend for a superbowl, which I clearly didnt think would happen after 4 weeks of the season.

kryogen

Bradys footwork is actually the best I have ever seen it, incredible how he can still improve himself at this stage of his career

j8wk2feszrnpao

bruschi, I think we all had our worries in those first 4 weeks.
For me it was about the OL and the fear that the first 4 games would be reflected for the rest of the season.

Having seen Brady/Bill somehow get to 12:4 with the injuries/receivers we had last year, I felt that if the OL could improve, then the Pats would start winning.

But I did not see 21:43 coming.
I picked the Pats, but only just against a hugely talented Broncos team.

I'm not going to go overboard about the win. We've a long way to go, and a lot of regular season games, before we get to the challenge of the playoffs.
We've the bye next week and then it's @Colts, Lions, @Packers, @Chargers, and then home against Miami.
All winnable games, but those 3 away games will be further challenges (Chargers should have some injured players return by the time we play them).

All that said, we can sit back and enjoy the next two weeks.
Corvus, that gives you plenty of time to get another photoshop of Gronk done

bruschi

Yeah but I think I completely wrote off the team based on it, and couldnt se them turn it around to a deep playoff push. I just didnt see them turn it around as much as they have done. Without wanting to flip flop too much and go on about last night, but the most pleasing aspect of it to me is that I do think we are back as a legitimate candidate and have the potential to go deep, whereas I genuinely thought we'd only be making up the numbers in the playoff. So its good to see a team playing to its abilities and showing that it can and will compete at the business end of the year.

Son Of A Vidic

bruschi wrote: »

There is another level left in this team, and last night was far from the finished article. Its now about ensuring we maintain a consistency in our play and pray to the football gods that we stay healthy, Brady and Gronk in particular. Everytime Gronk gets a hit I wince. Every single time.

I agree, I think this team hasn't found top gear yet and that's the exciting part. keeping Brady & Gronk healthy really is pivotal for our success. Gronk 50 TDs in 59 games, joint fastest in NFL history with Randy Moss. The Brady - Gronk chemistry on the field is magical when in full flow.

Brady was still under a lot of pressure and hurried on quite a few plays last night. But overall, the O line really improved on the AFC title game and they are going in the right direction. But as Kyro said earlier, Brady's footwork has been impressive and it seems to be getting better. And this is what happens when you keep him healthy, protected and put weapons on the field. The last 5 games....18 TDs, 143 of 197 passes (72.6% completion rate), 1,601 Yards and the one Int came on a Amendola tipped ball.

I said it last season, if Brady stays healthy and the O line gets better. Then when you look at how well Brady looks after himself and his ongoing quest for perfection. It wouldn't surprise me if he breaks the oldest player playing records. The TD pass to Edelman was a vintage Brady laser. When I saw it live, I didn't even see where the ball went until I saw Edelman celebrating. Gruden was gushing (and rightly so) after Brady threw one 20 yards pass into the wind in the first half. Speaking of the wind, nesn put up this interesting stat before the game, for Brady & Manning playing in strong winds of + 20Mph....

Brady: 282 of 445, 63.4 completion percentage, 3,167 yards (243.6 per game), 27 touchdowns, four interceptions, 101.0 passer rating, 11-2 record

Manning: 179 of 307 passing, 58.3 completion percentage, 1,776 yards (222.0 per game), five touchdowns, nine interceptions, 68.0 passer rating, 3-5 record

http://nesn.com/2014/11/patriots-broncos-live-winds-could-hinder-peyton-mannings-performance/

I knew Brady was probably the best bad weather QB in the league through the years. But those stats playing in windy weather are phenomenal. Of course you won't see this stuff getting mentioned, when the NFL network talk stats and have their tongues shoved up certain players asses.

After the Broncos win last year, we threw away the top seed with a couple of silly losses. Hopefully we won't do that again. I want to see another Manning Vs Brady classic and it would be great to have home field advantage. Hopefully Tom will also add to his 11-5 record. But we have a pretty savage stretch of games coming up now and the Bye week couldn't have come at a better time. The most exciting thing is, there is a still a lot of room for improvement on both sides of the ball with this team. And if they continue to improve & stay healthy, then we'll be looking good come the postseason.

j8wk2feszrnpao

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Brady sprints to Edelman to celebrate!
Gotta love it.

The last 15secs of this is gold!
http://www.nfl.com/videos/mayocks-slant/0ap3000000422499/Mayock-s-Slant-Eye-In-The-Sky-Edelman
Really gotta love it.

Son Of A Vidic

munstermagic11 wrote: »

The last 15secs of this is gold!
http://www.nfl.com/videos/mayocks-slant/0ap3000000422499/Mayock-s-Slant-Eye-In-The-Sky-Edelman
Really gotta love it.

Love the Bromance commentary from Brady there at the end of that clip.

Hazys

Remaining schedule is tough, the bye is good for the team but hopefully it doesn't kill our momentum:

Bye
16-Nov @Indianapolis
23-Nov Detroit
30-Nov @Green Bay
7-Dec @San Diego
14-Dec Miami
21-Dec @N.Y. Jets
28-Dec Buffalo

But to be honest the only 2 fixtures that are somewhat scary are @San Diego and Vs Miami.

I don't rate the teams that don't have a decent defense. I think the Colts are good on offense but only average on defense. I think our D is strong enough to make enough stops and their D wont be able to stop us...same goes for the Lions and Packers.

Away @Chargers is never easy and the Dolphins have seemed to figure it out so even tho we are at home, i think as its a divisional game they will run us close.

All that I pray for is no major injuries and we'll be more than ok.

But unfortunately i still think we drop enough games to become the 2nd seed in the AFC as the Broncos have an easier remaining schedule...so road will probably go through Mile High again.

Son Of A Vidic

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Corvus, that gives you plenty of time to get another photoshop of Gronk done

Your wish is my command.....

Hazys

Everybody is gay for Tom Brady:

One night earlier this year, I ran into friends in New York who happened to be with Julian Edelman. After a breakout season, Edelman had been debating whether to re-sign or leave for a bigger offer … which meant he’d be leaving Tom Brady. And his friends were busting his balls about it. Go ahead, leave Brady — see what happens. It was actually pretty funny.

Edelman knew what I did for a living. He had a couple of drinks in him. He was feeling emotional about Brady — again, it was unclear whether they were done as teammates — and launched into an endearingly genuine monologue about Brady’s brilliance. What an unbelievable teammate Brady was. What an unbelievable quarterback he was. How he worked harder, day in and day out, than any teammate Edelman had ever had. How he owed everything to the guy. We joked that Edelman almost sounded like a religious fanatic discussing the Cult of Brady or something. But that’s how he felt.

I asked him how long Brady could keep playing, and without hesitation, Edelman said, “As long as he wants.”

“Like, 43?”

Edelman nodded. He described Brady as a “football machine,” adding, “He’s in bed by eight thirty every night!” He had never seen anything like Tom Brady. He couldn’t imagine Brady NOT playing football. Six more years, at least. That’s what he believed.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/tom-brady-peyton-manning-cheating/

bruschi

just to throw it out there:

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/no-debate-facts-show-tom-brady-better-than-peyton-manning/31873/

some snippets

Short version: Brady is Manning's statistical equal, despite playing his entire career outdoors with inferior talent, Brady puts up more points, wins more consistently than any QB in history, typically beats Manning head to head even with inferior teams, and doesn't **** the bed every year in the playoffs.

When we look instead at the two quarterbacks based upon averages, percentages and efficiency; in other words, when we look at them on an even playing field, their statistical careers are much, much closer than anyone realizes.

Brady: 63.5% completions, 7.4 YPA, 5.5% TDs, 2.0% INTs, 96.1 rating
Manning: 65.5% completions, 7.7 YPA, 5.9% TDs, 2.6% INTs, 97.7 rating

Brady has played 92% of his games outdoors (185 of 202)
Manning has played 49% of his games outdoors (122 of 248)

So there you have it, folks: Brady produces similar stats, more points and more victories. He's won more playoff games and more Super Bowls. And he doesn't **** the bed every year in the playoffs. Brady, in other words, is better by every meaningful empirical measure.

worth a read (it is long) even if it is totally biased and skewed. but there certainly are some valid points in it.

kryogen

Valid points, but they don't fit in well with a certain narrative.

Its only after both are long retired imo that Brady will be truly recognised as the GOAT. Manning is an unbelievable QB and I am so happy to have got to see both of them, but for me there is no question who is better.

Son Of A Vidic

bruschi wrote: »

just to throw it out there:

Brady has played 92% of his games outdoors (185 of 202)
Manning has played 49% of his games outdoors (122 of 248)

An older Brother of mine is a Lab rat, the Laws of Physics are his daily bread and butter. And he always goes off on one when talking about playing against the elements and playing in an artificial environment. And I think these stats show it up more than any......

Brady & Manning playing in strong winds of + 20Mph
Brady: 282 of 445, 63.4 completion percentage, 3,167 yards (243.6 per game), 27 touchdowns, four interceptions, 101.0 passer rating, 11-2 record.

Manning: 179 of 307 passing, 58.3 completion percentage, 1,776 yards (222.0 per game), five touchdowns, nine interceptions, 68.0 passer rating, 3-5 record.

http://nesn.com/2014/11/patriots-broncos-live-winds-could-hinder-peyton-mannings-performance/

These are the real stats that don't get noticed on NFL Total Access and they're just one of many that makes Brady the GOAT. But I love Peyton also and don't think it's right to point score when it comes to QB greatness. Brady Vs Manning - is the greatest NFL QB rivalry of all time. Not only for the consistent quality through the years. But also for the longevity of the rivalry. Both entered last Sunday's game, a 38 year old and a 37 year old and they were the best performing QB's in the league. Amazing when you think about it. I really don't think we'll ever see they're like again when they hang up their cleats.

Hazys

kryogen wrote: »

Valid points, but they don't fit in well with a certain narrative.

Its only after both are long retired imo that Brady will be truly recognised as the GOAT. Manning is an unbelievable QB and I am so happy to have got to see both of them, but for me there is no question who is better.

TBH I think it was decided a long time ago that Manning will be GOAT and Brady will just be in the conversation for a top 5 place in the best QBs. The narrative is already written, i had two conversations this week with a Bills fan and a Bears fan who thought i was so biased for even mentioning Brady in the same breath as Manning. The majority of NFL fans believe Manning is GOAT and its not even close. Its a losing battle, i think Brady needs to win 2 more Superbowls to be considered GOAT by the media while Manning may only need one, if even that.

Look I like Manning personally, seems like a nice genuine guy (a little too nice at time) who is a phenomenal QB but i hate all the ass kissing he gets.

Manning is GOAT of Chokers. He holds the record for most playoff losses while Brady holds the record for most playoff wins and that is so telling. Putting up big numbers twice a year against poor Jaguars, Texan and Titan teams for years means nothing when the pressure is on and your facing the cream of the crop in the playoffs and you poop your pants.

The funniest thing that the media doesn't mention when talking about the Super Bowl Manning won is that he beat Rex "Sex Cannon" Grossman in the Super Bowl and during those playoffs and Super Bowl...wait for it...wait for it...

He threw 3 TD passes and 7 Interceptions.

matthew8

Don't want to get into a debate here but if you're talking about cold weather or windy game stats there are two things you have to note that might make it closer than it looks:
1. It's a small sample size of games.
2. Brady would play a much higher proportion of his cold weather or windy games at home, and home quarterbacks generally have better stats anyway.

There's enough in those stats to suggest Brady's better in cold weather but given a proper sample size and an equal share of home games there's little doubt it'd be closer than 101-68 passer rating.

Son Of A Vidic

Hazys, I wouldn't even waste my time talking to Bills fans about Brady. He has put the beat down on their teams so many times during his career, the hate is strong with them . If you look at Manning & Brady's careers in terms of a movie script...

Manning - 1st in the draft - Golden boy from a privileged dynasty - team built around him - never short of top quality WR's throughout his career - winning a lot.

Brady - 199th in the draft & an afterthought - 4th of the QB depth chart and became the starter - spent most of his career without top quality WR's - known for doing so much with so little - Mr. Clutch who wins a lot when it really matters.

When you just do a comparative glance like that. It's Brady's career I can see Hollywood eventually making the movie about. His career has been a perfect fairy tale, the boy everybody forgot about and wrote off. Ends up spending his career ramming this down opponents throats. Ends up being the guy most players would want leading their team on a final drive to win a Superbowl. Ends up with the supermodel wife, who earned $47 millions dollars just last year alone and who has a net worth of $320 million. Yip, definitely a script in there somewhere.

Son Of A Vidic

matthew8 wrote: »

Don't want to get into a debate here but if you're talking about cold weather or windy game stats

Read it again, because those stats made no mention of snow. They only related to games where winds speed was + 20 Mph.

Per NFL Media research, in games with 20-plus mph winds there is a discrepancy between Brady and Manning's stats.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000421025/article/blizzardlike-conditions-in-foxborough

matthew8 wrote: »

There's enough in those stats to suggest Brady's better in cold weather but given a proper sample size and an equal share of home games there's little doubt it'd be closer than 101-68 passer rating.

Home games? These was no indication in those stats put up by the NFL, which winds were at home or not. The data only related to games with strong winds. And since the wind blows at quiet a few stadiums around the NFL. It's very likely the wind data came from games played in Gillette, Metlife, Soldier Field, Heinz Field or the Ralph Wilson Stadium ect, ect.

matthew8 wrote: »

there's little doubt it'd be closer than 101-68 passer rating.

I'd say there's a lot of doubt actually. There was no mention of snow in those windy games. So I contend if we factored in specific snow games, I'd say the gap would get even wider.

bruschi

The way I would look at it, is who do you want when your team badly needs you to perform. Manning or Brady. And for me, it would be Brady every time. Without question.

Now if someone wanted to argue the point that Manning is a better player, then I can certainly see that. He probably could be considered by some to be a better technical player, in that he throws brilliantly, reads the line excellently, and gets the most out of his players.

But, there is more to it than that. Having all the ability in the world makes no odds if you dont maximise the potential and the chances, and for me, Brady makes more of his opportunities than Manning does.

And its not as if Bradys stats or throwing etc is not as good. His stats show he is comparable, and especially given that he has most of his games in bad weather with average receivers, then that again would sway me to Brady.

I find it odd how much the media hop on the Manning bandwagon, and a couple of his MVPs, I think, were very generous. Maybe it is because he is the prototype QB. Son of an NFL QB, an SEC QB, the No.1 draft pick, from Football heartland.

As opposed to Brady, Californian, no football heritage, 7th round pick, Big ten college.

Its a never ending debate though and I'm sure it will go on for years and years after they have both retired.

But as Corvus says, its great to see them both continue this duel in the latter stages of their career. And I hope Brady gets another ring before he retires. He absolutely deserves one, and I really hope he does get a chance to get another one.

matthew8

Read it again, because those stats made no mention of snow. They only related to games where winds speed was + 20 Mph.

My post wasn't only about that post and the quoted statistic. People also frequently mention Brady's superiority in cold weather game and it's just a general comment.

Home games? These was no indication in those stats put up by the NFL, which winds were at home or not. The data only related to games with strong winds. And since the wind blows at quiet a few stadiums around the NFL. It's very likely the wind data came from games played in Gillette, Metlife, Soldier Field, Heinz Field or the Ralph Wilson Stadium ect, ect.

Right, so for Brady, there's a fair mix between home and away games with high winds, though given he plays outdoors in New England and some of his away games are indoors and/or in warmer weather he'd play a majority of wind games at home. But for Manning, he's played nearly all his career in Indianapolis. Unless someone's brought in a wind generator to the dome, during those years he's played 100% of his wind games away from home, which would give him a much higher percentage of wind games being away games.

Hazys

Allow me to interrupt this Brady Vs Manning debate for an important announcement:

https://vine.co/v/OeaH0Q0ttVp

Son Of A Vidic

matthew8 wrote: »

Right, so for Brady, there's a fair mix between home and away games with high winds, though given he plays outdoors in New England and some of his away games are indoors and/or in warmer weather he'd play a majority of wind games at home.

Not necessarily. For example, the Pats are playing only one dome game this season, so windy conditions are quite possibly at the other 7 venues. You're making an assumption about windy games, being predominantly played at home. But you can't make that assumption, because the data never specified it for Brady.

matthew8 wrote: »

But for Manning, he's played nearly all his career in Indianapolis. Unless someone's brought in a wind generator to the dome, during those years he's played 100% of his wind games away from home, which would give him a much higher percentage of wind games being away games.

I think everyone is aware that any windy games Manning played as a Colt, had to have been played away from home. But what has away games got to do with anything? If a player can't play in gusting wind, headwinds. crosswinds, tailwinds, snow or the biting cold. Playing at home won't make a damn difference. The weather doesn't give a crap about home field advantage. My point is, nobody can use the excuse "Ah, maybe Brady is used to playing outside." Because since most players in this league play outside, most players throughout the decades have played outside. Why haven't they also had the career Brady has had? Why aren't all these players in the GOAT discussion the way Brady is? Because talent, not acclimatisation is the answer.

Son Of A Vidic

Hazys wrote: »

Allow me to interrupt this Brady Vs Manning debate for an important announcement:

https://vine.co/v/OeaH0Q0ttVp

Post disappoints . Was expecting Tom to give Gronk the traditional headbutt followed by a barrage of slaps/punches.