New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

JCTO

Vandango wrote: »

I've been member of that site long before I ever joined Boards.ie and from what I've seen, posters supporting Kraft are a small minority there.

It really makes no difference as that forum is an extremely small minority of Pats fans overall. I live and work in MA and spend time on a daily basis talking to football mad Pats fans whether at work or in the pub or wherever really and those who hate Kraft are in the minority.

Forums like Boards and Patsfans really don't represent the overall majority view and never will. So I stand by my stance of saying bollocks to you saying most Pats fans hate Kraft.

While not a pats fan myself any of my mates that are couldn't give a toss about kraft rolling over very much a mentality of how many superbowls did we win before him vs since. Kraft has been a fantastic owner any pats fan who says they hate him is foolish I can understand disliking what he did and perhaps loseing a bit of respect but he's been the best owner in the league for a long time hateing him is idiotic

Vandango

JCTO wrote: »

So I stand by my stance of saying bollocks to you saying most Pats fans hate Kraft.

While others may have said it eleswhere, I have never said I personally hate kraft. Yes I think he's spineless wimp after what he did and if you don't like my opinion, then tough s**t.

JCTO

Vandango wrote: »

While others may have said it eleswhere, I have never said I personally hate kraft. Yes I think he's spineless wimp after what he did and if you don't like my opinion, then tough s**t.

Wow relax there chief no one said anything about your opinion specifically. You said most fans I told you that was bollocks simple as. Every Pats fan is entitled to their opinion on Robert Kraft and to each their own but to say the majority based on that of an online forum is just mad. You wont find anyone on here telling you that your opinion is wrong but you will find people that disagree with your opinion and there is a big difference between the two.

JCTO

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Gonna be in Boston for the week of the Jags game and was looking at tickets on Stubhub - any of ye guys know do tickets be cheaper around the day of the game or do they stay as high as they are? Up on 200 dollars at the min for the cheapest seats.

Draw for the Pre-sale. If you are picked you will get first dibs at the general sale.

http://www.patriots.com/2015-individual-game-ticket-presale-opportunity

eagle eye

JCTO wrote: »

Wow relax there chief no one said anything about your opinion specifically. You said most fans I told you that was bollocks simple as. Every Pats fan is entitled to their opinion on Robert Kraft and to each their own but to say the majority based on that of an online forum is just mad. You wont find anyone on here telling you that your opinion is wrong but you will find people that disagree with your opinion and there is a big difference between the two.

We'll see on opening night what the fans think of him. If there is a big booing session for him then it's clear the majority are not happy with him.

JCTO

eagle eye wrote: »

We'll see on opening night what the fans think of him. If there is a big booing session for him then it's clear the majority are not happy with him.

Oh so you will be able to tell how many in the stadium are booing him? Besides at what point will people Boo Kraft? The owner only really walks around at the start of the game when the stadium is still practically empty. So unless they show a video of him on the big screen mid game it will be very hard to tell the majority.

You can argue with me on this all you want. I will be at that game with 15 other die hard Pats fans and none of them feel the same way as you guys about Kraft. Also I do know plenty of other season ticket holders and fans a like and do talk football on a daily basis. So I can tell you from the amount of people I talk to on a daily basis the Kraft haters are not the majority. So from my experience it is easy for me to form my opinion on this.

Not only that you will get many like myself that lost respect for him and think from a football standpoint he made the wrong decision but from a business standpoint he did what he did. And we don't "Hate" him for it.

But hey if you need a crowd on opening night to prove your point so be it. Such a childish way of preparing to say "I told you so" without real proof.

JCTO

eagle eye wrote: »

We'll see on opening night what the fans think of him. If there is a big booing session for him then it's clear the majority are not happy with him.

Just noticed though this is a bit ambiguous. So are you just saying people are just unhappy with him and Hate him like you and others do OR people in general are unhappy with his football decision but dont hate him. Seems like you are leaving that open to interpretation just in case.

BizzyC

As a Pats fan, I still have a lot of support for Kraft.

If you don't like his latest move, look back over everything else he's done for the team since he took over. TBH guys who are attacking him now are very ungrateful IMO.

The reason you think you're in the majority is because, like a lot of "issues" like this, it's only the people with a strong opinion who make an effort to voice it.
The majority, who don't care about what your saying, won't respond to it.

eagle eye

JCTO wrote: »

Just noticed though this is a bit ambiguous. So are you just saying people are just unhappy with him and Hate him like you and others do OR people in general are unhappy with his football decision but dont hate him. Seems like you are leaving that open to interpretation just in case.

How did hate come into this. I always said that Kraft was every bit as important as Belichick and Brady.

He has now made it clear that legacy means nothing and money is everything. I feel he has basically spit on the legacies of Belichick and Brady and let down the fans by promising to fight for an apology and then backing down and taking a punishment for something that clearly never happened.

I don't hate the man but I'm disgusted that somebody I held in such high regard has now shown that money is far more important to him than legacy.

I want him to be booed because I want him to see what happens when you let down Patriots Nation and the greatest HC and QB that we have ever known.

BizzyC wrote: »

As a Pats fan, I still have a lot of support for Kraft.

If you don't like his latest move, look back over everything else he's done for the team since he took over. TBH guys who are attacking him now are very ungrateful IMO.

The reason you think you're in the majority is because, like a lot of "issues" like this, it's only the people with a strong opinion who make an effort to voice it.
The majority, who don't care about what your saying, won't respond to it.

Tell me about these other issues like this.

bruschi

eagle eye wrote: »

How did hate come into this. I always said that Kraft was every bit as important as Belichick and Brady.

He has now made it clear that legacy means nothing and money is everything. I feel he has basically spit on the legacies of Belichick and Brady and let down the fans by promising to fight for an apology and then backing down and taking a punishment for something that clearly never happened.

I don't hate the man but I'm disgusted that somebody I held in such high regard has now shown that money is far more important to him than legacy.

I want him to be booed because I want him to see what happens when you let down Patriots Nation and the greatest HC and QB that we have ever known.


Tell me about these other issues like this.

absolutely and totally disagree with this. Might be just me, but I hate when fans boo their own team, or members of it. I know it happens, but its not for me. And whatever about booing a team or players etc for pathetic efforts and for wasting talent or whatever, but to boo the owner of the current superbowl champions? No way. I'd be disgusted to be honest if the Patriots fans on opening night boo Kraft.

Who knows what his agreement was with Goodell to take the punishment. He could have taken it on the chin so that Brady gets off, so like I said before, I am waiting until Bradys appeal results come through before I make an absolute conclusion on Krafts move. I was disappointed he backed down, but respect the decision he made despite disagreeing with it from a fans point of view.

Son Of A Vidic

I will be totally shocked if Brady gets his penalty completely lifted. I always expected this to go to court and I still think it will. And largely because I have no faith in the integrity of ratbag Goodell. Some fans, including myself, have lost respect for Kraft and bickering over it won't change anything. For me the focus should be on the field, our team, our coaching staff and the season ahead.

JaMarcusHustle

eagle eye wrote: »

Tell me about these other issues like this.

Oh I don't know, around the time we lost to the Chiefs last year and you went full-Dilfer and questioned whether or not Brady was good enough for us any more?

BizzyC

eagle eye wrote: »

Tell me about these other issues like this.

FFS, getting pedantic much?
What I mean is issues where one side feels very strongly and the other side isn't bothered with the discussion.

I'm not bothered with the discussion on it either, so I'll be leaving it up to you and JTCO to give out all ye like now.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I will be totally shocked if Brady gets his penalty completely lifted.

I just don't know what Brady could have presented at the hearing that would have convinced Goodell to change the ruling.
Goodell has been firm of his assessment of the the Wells report and doesn't seem to have wavered in that time.
It would take a Kraft type u-turn to get it fully lifted :P

eagle eye

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Oh I don't know, around the time we lost to the Chiefs last year and you went full-Dilfer and questioned whether or not Brady was good enough for us any more?

Oh you mean the time that I just pointed out that it wasn't just the OL that was playing badly?
I was just open to the possibility that age might be catching up on him. He had a few poor games and while the OL wasn't looking very good he wasn't either. In that Chiefs game he was awful and Garropolo look decent when he came in late on. I didn't go ott with it, I just pointed out that he wasn't playing well.

Iirc I was the one saying we would have a winning season even after that loss and fully believing in the team while a lot of others were calling this the end of road.

eagle eye

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I will be totally shocked if Brady gets his penalty completely lifted. I always expected this to go to court and I still think it will. And largely because I have no faith in the integrity of ratbag Goodell. Some fans, including myself, have lost respect for Kraft and bickering over it won't change anything. For me the focus should be on the field, our team, our coaching staff and the season ahead.

I am very worried about all of this. Brady might consider retiring if he doesn't get what he is looking for. The man doesn't like losing at all and a loss in this battle might just leave him thinking about walking away from the game.

I really hope that doesn't happen but I'd understand it. If he is banned for even one game it hurts his legacy and I'm not sure I'd be able to take that and continue on if it was me.

Son Of A Vidic

In defense of Eagle, he wasn't the only one who spoke about Brady - Garropolo when Brady went through the bad spell. There were some others also. But what does it matter anyway, emotions are up and down during the season, everyone has their periods of doubt and supreme confidence. Apart from me of course. You've all seen my new avatar, we all know Bray is GOD and yes he has never thrown a bad pass in his career, it's just not possible...:pac:

Adamcp898

I expect Brady's ban to be reduced to one or two games. Both sides get a win so to speak without actually definitively clearing up anything.

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

I am very worried about all of this. Brady might consider retiring if he doesn't get what he is looking for. The man doesn't like losing at all and a loss in this battle might just leave him thinking about walking away from the game.

I really hope that doesn't happen but I'd understand it. If he is banned for even one game it hurts his legacy and I'm not sure I'd be able to take that and continue on if it was me.

I know what you're saying but you know Brady, he might want to come back and punish the league for all the B.S. Look at last season when some trolls in the media said he was finished. He went on that amazing run of play during the toughest schedule in the league. He was merciless and I think the supreme competitor in him would want to do the same again.

Son Of A Vidic

Adamcp898 wrote: »

I expect Brady's ban to be reduced to one or two games. Both sides get a win so to speak without actually definitively clearing up anything.

I agree and that's why I think the initial punishment was ott. Goodell knew he'd could reduce it to 2 and try to look a bit impartial. But I don't think Brady will accept anything but complete exoneration.

Adamcp898

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I agree and that's why I think the initial punishment was ott. Goodell knew he'd could reduce it to 2 and try to look a bit impartial. But I don't think Brady will accept anything but complete exoneration.

I just think it's too easy for both sides to pass up.

Goodell gets to justify a reduction in the ban by commending Brady for being up front and transparent while Brady gets to come out and say "we actually got the most we expected we could and we consider this a win, but still fvck the man etc." only in much more respectable language.

It won't reach a court, and if it did I don't know how it'd be all done by September without Goodell and the league being a willing party, which I assume they wouldn't be.

Son Of A Vidic

Adamcp898 wrote: »

I just think it's too easy for both sides to pass up.

Goodell gets to justify a reduction in the ban by commending Brady for being up front and transparent while Brady gets to come out and say "we actually got the most we expected we could and we consider this a win, but still fvck the man etc." only in much more respectable language.

But we know Brady and the integrity of the man, it's hard to see him swallowing this.

That said, we also know how selfless he has always been for the team. So he might still take, I don't think he will, but I could be wrong.

Adamcp898 wrote: »

It won't reach a court, and if it did I don't know how it'd be all done by September without Goodell and the league being a willing party, which I assume they wouldn't be.

I think if Goodell rules before the end of July, Brady will be able to file an injunction and start the season. The risk is, if everything is done and dusted and Goodell's ruling is upheld. Brady could run the risk of missing games in the postseason or latter part of the season.

Now if Goodell was to cynically drag this out past training camp and into late August. Then I think Brady probably could miss the first game before an injunction is filed.

JCTO

eagle eye wrote: »

How did hate come into this. I always said that Kraft was every bit as important as Belichick and Brady.

He has now made it clear that legacy means nothing and money is everything. I feel he has basically spit on the legacies of Belichick and Brady and let down the fans by promising to fight for an apology and then backing down and taking a punishment for something that clearly never happened.

I don't hate the man but I'm disgusted that somebody I held in such high regard has now shown that money is far more important to him than legacy.

I want him to be booed because I want him to see what happens when you let down Patriots Nation and the greatest HC and QB that we have ever known.


Tell me about these other issues like this.

To sum up you don't like him anymore so I will class you with the guys who now hate him. But you answered my question indirectly I guess. The majority don't see it your way or Vandango's way or whoever else feels the same as you guys on here that is the fact I am making. As for the booing thing, Childish at best. Has life become a real life pantomime for people?

JCTO

Did I just read someone fears Brady will retire now? Where is this stuff coming from? Man some Pats fans are going overboard with all of this.

JCTO

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Now if Goodell was to cynically drag this out past training camp and into late August. Then I think Brady probably could miss the first game before an injunction is filed.

I did read if Goodell doesn't make his decision before Opening night that means the Suspension could end up later in this current season or in 2016 as Brady then will have to decide to take legal action or not. Can't for the life of me find the article on my phone or remember if I got the details correct, I could be completely off.

Adamcp898

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

But we know Brady and the integrity of the man, it's hard to see him swallowing this.

That said, we also know how selfless he has always been for the team. So he might still take, I don't think he will, but I could be wrong.



I think if Goodell rules before the end of July, Brady will be able to file an injunction and start the season. The risk is, if everything is done and dusted and Goodell's ruling is upheld. Brady could run the risk of missing games in the postseason or latter part of the season.

Now if Goodell was to cynically drag this out past training camp and into late August. Then I think Brady probably could miss the first game before an injunction is filed.

I don't ever see it getting this far but yeah I was thinking about this today actually, as in how does an actual court of law see all of this.

I mean, Brady was handed disciplinary action which he had the option of appealing. He chose to do so.
The last CBA re-negotiated how player appeals are handled and so despite Goodell clearly having a vested interest in this the NFL can still call the appeal "independent" whilst ruling on it themselves, and not breach any agreement with the players.
Brady being covered by the CBA means he technically agreed to these terms and so he can't call it unfair just because he didn't like the outcome.

Football is important to a lot of people but will a judge want the hassle of something which in the scope of wider society means next to nothing? and, further to this, surely courts are going to want to encourage the use of appeal panels, CBA's, and the like so that they don't have to waste time on inconsequential grievances like this and just rule in favour of the NFL anyway.

I could well have some of the specifics wrong because I don't have the time or the will to look it up as I just think the whole talk of taking it to court is a mixture of posturing and media hype and has nothing to it anyway.

eagle eye

JCTO wrote: »

To sum up you don't like him anymore so I will class you with the guys who now hate him. But you answered my question indirectly I guess. The majority don't see it your way or Vandango's way or whoever else feels the same as you guys on here that is the fact I am making. As for the booing thing, Childish at best. Has life become a real life pantomime for people?

I've never booed anybody in my life to this point but I really feel like it has to be done on opening night in Gillette.

I don't intend to do it again after that but he has to hear it because he let us all down.

Anybody who doesn't feel let down by all that has transpired since this thing first reared it's ugly head are immune to feeling let down imo. You have always come across as a very passionate fan so I'm very surprised you don't feel let down by Kraft.

eagle eye

Adamcp898 wrote: »

I don't ever see it getting this far but yeah I was thinking about this today actually, as in how does an actual court of law see all of this.

I mean, Brady was handed disciplinary action which he had the option of appealing. He chose to do so.
The last CBA re-negotiated how player appeals are handled and so despite Goodell clearly having a vested interest in this the NFL can still call the appeal "independent" whilst ruling on it themselves, and not breach any agreement with the players.
Brady being covered by the CBA means he technically agreed to these terms and so he can't call it unfair just because he didn't like the outcome.

Football is important to a lot of people but will a judge want the hassle of something which in the scope of wider society means next to nothing? and, further to this, surely courts are going to want to encourage the use of appeal panels, CBA's, and the like so that they don't have to waste time on inconsequential grievances like this and just rule in favour of the NFL anyway.

I could well have some of the specifics wrong because I don't have the time or the will to look it up as I just think the whole talk of taking it to court is a mixture of posturing and media hype and has nothing to it anyway.

There is a huge monetary side to this, Brady is suspended without pay so he has a perfectly legitimate legal case. All that has happened so far including the investigation and appeals all come up as part of that case.

JCTO

eagle eye wrote: »

Anybody who doesn't feel let down by all that has transpired since this thing first reared it's ugly head are immune to feeling let down imo. You have always come across as a very passionate fan so I'm very surprised you don't feel let down by Kraft.

Such fooking nonsense. Where do you get off with this tripe. So someone doesn't feel let down by this is immune to feeling let down? Stupid logic right there.

But that a side it shows you have paid no attention to any of my posts. From a football standpoint he let the team down. I don't respect that decision to not fight the NFL. But from a business standpoint I can see why he did it. Its all business to him and as the owner it is his right to protect his business and his job an owner whether we agree or not.

Booing him is stupid at best and no one cares that they get booed. If you honestly think he will care people are booing him you are naive.

Let me ask you this. Do you think Bill or Tom care as much as the fans or feel let down by Kraft? I bet you they will say yes and no and give similar reasons.

The whole Kraft not caring about Tom was also blown way out of proportion by those with their dislike kraft agenda. Anything to continue fighting their cause.