New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

bruschi

eagle eye wrote: »

I've never booed anybody in my life to this point but I really feel like it has to be done on opening night in Gillette.

I don't intend to do it again after that but he has to hear it because he let us all down.

Anybody who doesn't feel let down by all that has transpired since this thing first reared it's ugly head are immune to feeling let down imo. You have always come across as a very passionate fan so I'm very surprised you don't feel let down by Kraft.

We're probably just not as much as fans as you are so would be immune to feeling let down

JaMarcusHustle

eagle eye wrote: »

I've never booed anybody in my life to this point but I really feel like it has to be done on opening night in Gillette.

I don't intend to do it again after that but he has to hear it because he let us all down.

Hypocrite much? Did you not make these posts in here and on the soccer forum over the years?

eagle eye wrote:

Anyone who boos a guy who gave that length of service to a club is very disrespectful. I just despise people like that.

eagle eye wrote:

Love:
Blackburn Rovers and good games, good conversation about it.

Hate:
Cheating, diving, big four bias from refs, money destroying the game, any thread on liverpool or united on here due to the level of stupidity in them, biased former soccer player pundits, idiots 'fans' booing their own players, stewards turfing people out for standing up

eagle eye wrote:

You go to the game, if things are bad on the day you can boo them, nothing wrong with that, but you don't organise booing the team before the game has even started.

eagle eye wrote:

I don't for the life of me understand why people who attend a soccer match would boo Lucas. I stop short of calling them fans because they don't deserve to be described like proper fans of a club.

eagle eye

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Hypocrite much? Did you not make these posts in here and on the soccer forum over the years?

Lol, you put a lot of work in there searching my old posts.

And you just proved that what I've said is true. I have never booed anybody in my life before but this is different.

UnitedIrishman

JCTO wrote: »

Draw for the Pre-sale. If you are picked you will get first dibs at the general sale.

http://www.patriots.com/2015-individual-game-ticket-presale-opportunity

Cheers for that TO. Will give it a go anyways. We'll probably go regardless of price (unless its outrageous) as it's a once off but no point forking out 4-5 times over the odds if we can get them cheaper.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Lol, you put a lot of work in there searching my old posts.

And you just proved that what I've said is true. I have never booed anybody in my life before but this is different.

So you feel booing is ok now whereas it was outrageous before?

eagle eye

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

So you feel booing is ok now whereas it was outrageous before?

I feel he deserves it on opening night in Gillette Stadium. He let the fans down and imo spit on the legacy of Belichick and Brady in taking the punishment. He should have appealed it at the very least.

His statement last week where he said something like he wants all those who deserve to be there on opening night to be there but he never mentioned Brady as being one of them.

This is booing a man for a decision he made that is all about money. I would never boo a player or boo during a game.

Tbh I never thought a situation would ever have arisen where I'd have even contemplated it but unfortunately a situation like that has arisen and I'll be joining in on booing Bob Kraft in Gillette.

Son Of A Vidic

Adamcp898 wrote: »

I don't ever see it getting this far but yeah I was thinking about this today actually, as in how does an actual court of law see all of this.

I mean, Brady was handed disciplinary action which he had the option of appealing. He chose to do so.
The last CBA re-negotiated how player appeals are handled and so despite Goodell clearly having a vested interest in this the NFL can still call the appeal "independent" whilst ruling on it themselves, and not breach any agreement with the players.
Brady being covered by the CBA means he technically agreed to these terms and so he can't call it unfair just because he didn't like the outcome.

Football is important to a lot of people but will a judge want the hassle of something which in the scope of wider society means next to nothing? and, further to this, surely courts are going to want to encourage the use of appeal panels, CBA's, and the like so that they don't have to waste time on inconsequential grievances like this and just rule in favour of the NFL anyway.

I could well have some of the specifics wrong because I don't have the time or the will to look it up as I just think the whole talk of taking it to court is a mixture of posturing and media hype and has nothing to it anyway.

If this goes to court it's hard to know how it pans put. The CBA is an issue alright and Brady is obligated by it. However, I think every time a player Vs NFL has gone to court in recent years, the court has largely sided with the players.

Eagle also mentioned the money issue and I think Brady could make a case for an employer imposing a very excessive penalty. His legal team could also argue, that this has led to an employee suffering a loss of earnings & damage to his reputation beyond the penalty imposed.

We also have Brady's record. His disciplinary record has been impeccable throughout his career. Indeed, he's been an NFL poster boy for most of it. Then he gets raped by the league for something that nobody can prove. And nobody even knows what that something is.

We then have an issue of precedents in two respects. Firstly, the NFL rule book mentions a fine of $25,000 for tampering with a balls psi levels. So Brady's penalty was completely ridiculous in light of this.

The next precedent is the issue of handing over a phone. Brett Farve never handed over his phone to the NFL, as was his right. Yet he only received a fine of $50,000 dollars. Gostkowski also refused to hand his phone over and he received no sanction whatsoever. Brady has the resources to have the best fighting his case and it would be very intriguing to see how they attack the league in court.

One aspect from the clown Wells report, alone was the behaviour of the league. The blatant leaks and the misinformation they put out where not even addressed by Wells. Of course as someone who help reduced the leagues liability to head injuries, he was never an impartial investigator anyway. And I'm still stumped as to why Kraft even agreed to his involvement. In court, Brady's team could expose this lack of investigation of the leagues front office & their leaks. Leaks that could be viewed as deliberately damaging to Brady.

One thing that I think is pretty certain, the next CBA negotiations due in 2021 could be pretty nasty. The NFLPA will no doubt want the commissioner replaced and his disciplinary powers reduced by independent arbitration. Invariably, the owners and the league will not want this and I think we could be facing a lockout season in the 2021.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

I feel he deserves it on opening night in Gillette Stadium. He let the fans down and imo spit on the legacy of Belichick and Brady in taking the punishment. He should have appealed it at the very least.

His statement last week where he said something like he wants all those who deserve to be there on opening night to be there but he never mentioned Brady as being one of them.

This is booing a man for a decision he made that is all about money. I would never boo a player or boo during a game.

Tbh I never thought a situation would ever have arisen where I'd have even contemplated it but unfortunately a situation like that has arisen and I'll be joining in on booing Bob Kraft in Gillette.

Kraft has in no way shape or form has spit on there legacy
1.bb has been kept out of this from day one so he's not relevant in the conversation
2. He has maintained his stance on bradys innocence and by all accounts he was a massive part of bradys appeal

Not to mention the fact that he made the patriots I don't think ye have had a loseing record since he took over. He brought bb and brady into the organisation and gave them the freedom to do there thing and he got fox borough built. But sure he's the devil because he didn't appeal a poxy draft pick and fine on the back of his 5th Super Bowl. Cue a picture of Kraft with all the rings the same way brady has been posted constantly during this

Edit: it's also worth noteing Kraft is probably the only owner (Maby the rooneys) that I would swap Jeffrie lurie for I have the utmost respect for him as an owner and should you go ahead and boo him I wish an eternity of jerry Jones on you

eagle eye

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

Kraft has in no way shape or form has spit on there legacy
1.bb has been kept out of this from day one so he's not relevant in the conversation
2. He has maintained his stance on bradys innocence and by all accounts he was a massive part of bradys appeal

Not to mention the fact that he made the patriots I don't think ye have had a loseing record since he took over. He brought bb and brady into the organisation and gave them the freedom to do there thing and he got fox borough built. But sure he's the devil because he didn't appeal a poxy draft pick and fine on the back of his 5th Super Bowl. Cue a picture of Kraft with all the rings the same way brady has been posted constantly during this

You don't seem to understand that he has taken a punishment that is for cheating.

There is scientific evidence from an independent source, not hired by the NFL or the Patriots, which shows that there was no tampering.

He came out shouting about how he would be looking for an apology, he came out only a week before accepting the penalty saying that he was fighting all the way. Then he backtracks and then makes a careful statement about opening night by not mentioning any names.

As for the affidavit, nobody knows what was in it but apparently it was supporting Tom Brady. I don't think it makes up for the way he let down the fans.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

You don't seem to understand that he has taken a punishment that is for cheating.

There is scientific evidence from an independent source, not hired by the NFL or the Patriots, which shows that there was no tampering.

He came out shouting about how he would be looking for an apology, he came out only a week before accepting the penalty saying that he was fighting all the way. Then he backtracks and then makes a careful statement about opening night by not mentioning any names.

As for the affidavit, nobody knows what was in it but apparently it was supporting Tom Brady. I don't think it makes up for the way he let down the fans.

Tbh personally I think he was informed/realised that fighting it was going to backfire he does not come across as the type that just rolls over.

But even if he did your questioning his entire legacy for accepting one penalty I accept you are saying its the principle but if someone tried to apply the same logic to brady or bb you'd lose your mind

JCTO

This is getting stupid now. The whole Kraft not supporting Brady nonsense that is. Robert Kraft and the Patriots appealing has absolutely nothing to do with Tom Brady's case. We don't know if Kraft being in the US or sending support Tom would have done anything to help Tom out. That is nothing more than speculation. We also don't know how Tom feels about it all or if Tom and Bob actually discussed his case. All of this anger is nothing more than being angry at the unknown. We also don't know if Bob didn't already speak to his good friend Roger about Tom either which is possible.

As for Kraft not appealing. Yes it sucked but he had his reasons and whether we like it or not he really owes us nothing and he will do what he thinks is best for him and his asset which is the Patriots simple as.

Got to love those who are hell bent on calling out Kraft. No actual proof of how Brady and Bill feel about it but they are almost speaking on behalf of every fan and Tom and Bill.

To all those who want to boo Robert Kraft, Go for it I say but don't tell us the majority agree with you. Add to that I hope it makes you all warm and fuzzy inside knowing you wasted your breath. It is hilarious to think people feel booing him will make a difference. Kraft wont give two sh1ts if he gets booed as you know why? The stadium will be full and he will be making his money.

As for Tom Brady we would all love to see him on the field. We all feel he was punished harshly but don't connect dots where there isn't between his case and Kraft folding like a cheap suit. Tom Brady is a fighter and he and his team are smart and sure as hell know a lot more than we do when it comes to Bob and co. I would go out on a limb and say the whole Kraft folding doesn't bother him as much as it does the fans and if it did he most certainly understands why the owner did what he did.

JCTO

eagle eye wrote: »

He came out shouting about how he would be looking for an apology, he came out only a week before accepting the penalty saying that he was fighting all the way. Then he backtracks and then makes a careful statement about opening night by not mentioning any names.

This is how the business world works. Someone gets all hell bent on fighting something until someone reminds them of the ramifications of doing so and they back down and look stupid. How you can't see it was all business when it came to his decision is beyond me. If you honestly feel Kraft did it as a cowardly act or not growing a pair you are sadly naive.

Hazys

Hazys wrote: »

Bullet to brain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvDfkojKKSs

Try harder JJ Watt

https://twitter.com/JJWatt/status/615550499018928128

Adamcp898

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

If this goes to court it's hard to know how it pans put. The CBA is an issue alright and Brady is obligated by it. However, I think every time a player Vs NFL has gone to court in recent years, the court has largely sided with the players.

Eagle also mentioned the money issue and I think Brady could make a case for an employer imposing a very excessive penalty. His legal team could also argue, that this has led to an employee suffering a loss of earnings & damage to his reputation beyond the penalty imposed.

We also have Brady's record. His disciplinary record has been impeccable throughout his career. Indeed, he's been an NFL poster boy for most of it. Then he gets raped by the league for something that nobody can prove. And nobody even knows what that something is.

We then have an issue of precedents in two respects. Firstly, the NFL rule book mentions a fine of $25,000 for tampering with a balls psi levels. So Brady's penalty was completely ridiculous in light of this.

The next precedent is the issue of handing over a phone. Brett Farve never handed over his phone to the NFL, as was his right. Yet he only received a fine of $50,000 dollars. Gostkowski also refused to hand his phone over and he received no sanction whatsoever. Brady has the resources to have the best fighting his case and it would be very intriguing to see how they attack the league in court.

One aspect from the clown Wells report, alone was the behaviour of the league. The blatant leaks and the misinformation they put out where not even addressed by Wells. Of course as someone who help reduced the leagues liability to head injuries, he was never an impartial investigator anyway. And I'm still stumped as to why Kraft even agreed to his involvement. In court, Brady's team could expose this lack of investigation of the leagues front office & their leaks. Leaks that could be viewed as deliberately damaging to Brady.

One thing that I think is pretty certain, the next CBA negotiations due in 2021 could be pretty nasty. The NFLPA will no doubt want the commissioner replaced and his disciplinary powers reduced by independent arbitration. Invariably, the owners and the league will not want this and I think we could be facing a lockout season in the 2021.

Well you've clearly given it more thought than me!

I wonder though if the outcome of this appeal was to remove any monetary punishment but still leave the game suspension, or at least some of it, in place would the courts be as interested?

I mean once the argument of someone being allowed to take an excessive amount of money from another didn't exist would the court be bothered with having to decide on how many matches a football player should miss? especially since it had already went through an appeals process.

Given how judges are appointed in the states and the advantage it is for them to keep their name in circulation, then I guess they won't have any bother finding one to hear such a high profile case but I think in Europe they wouldn't even consider bringing this to a court other than CAS and there'd even be a chance they wouldn't take it.

Adamcp898

Hazys wrote: »

Try harder JJ Watt

https://twitter.com/JJWatt/status/615550499018928128

That is so cringe worthy I can barely watch it.

The way he stands over him, puts on his sunglasses, then poses and stares out over the crowd.........

Dare I say set up?

eagle eye

JCTO wrote: »

This is how the business world works. Someone gets all hell bent on fighting something until someone reminds them of the ramifications of doing so and they back down and look stupid. How you can't see it was all business when it came to his decision is beyond me. If you honestly feel Kraft did it as a cowardly act or not growing a pair you are sadly naive.

I said it was all about money, I never said he was a coward or anything close to it.

Also re your other post. I am not going to enjoy booing him, I just think it has to be done to show him that we are very disappointed.

And some people on here are saying how great Bob Kraft has been for the New England Patriots. I have always held the man in the same regard as Belichick and Brady. I've even said before that the owner is the most important man in a franchise.

I think he has undone a lot of great work by accepting a penalty for cheating.

Do you not understand that we are now officially cheaters in the season we won a Superbowl?

eagle eye

Just a little side story. A new tv show started which I liked the pilot of apart from one little piece where the star of the show is doing a monologue about how the world works and part of it is how our heroes are often deceivers and they show pictures of Lance Armstrong, Bill Cosby and Tom Brady.

This is one of the reasons that I believe that Brady wants his name cleared. To be associated with Armstrong and Cosby in any way, shape or form is just ridiculous but it's already happened in a tv show.

j8wk2feszrnpao

eagle eye wrote: »

Do you not understand that we are now officially cheaters in the season we won a Superbowl?

I don't know EE. I've seen a lot of non-NE fans claim Brady to be close to the GOAT after his MVP performance against a great D in the SB (and there's no issue about the balls in that game).

Son Of A Vidic

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Well you've clearly given it more thought than me!

I wonder though if the outcome of this appeal was to remove any monetary punishment but still leave the game suspension, or at least some of it, in place would the courts be as interested?

I mean once the argument of someone being allowed to take an excessive amount of money from another didn't exist would the court be bothered with having to decide on how many matches a football player should miss? especially since it had already went through an appeals process.

Given how judges are appointed in the states and the advantage it is for them to keep their name in circulation, then I guess they won't have any bother finding one to hear such a high profile case but I think in Europe they wouldn't even consider bringing this to a court other than CAS and there'd even be a chance they wouldn't take it.

Even if there was no financial penalty imposed, I think Brady's team can still argue what has been the financial loss to Brady's brand and commercial interests by a league that has proven nothing? That's what makes Brady's case particular interesting, there isn't a shred of hard evidence against him.

Brady's team will also undo the myth that Goodell was somehow independent when hearing Brady's appeal. Of course judge mightn't want to involved himself in the internal wranglings of the NFL, no matter how unjust or unfair they have treated Brady.

But Brady's has some of the top legal brains on his side. I read somewhere that the US constitution could be invoked RE: a breach of Brady's constitutional rights. And if Brady's team have that as a line of attack involving the constitution. Then no Judge in the land can brush the case aside as an internal sporting body matter. Because in the US, the individuals constitutional rights are sacrosanct.

Interestingly, I came across this nugget earlier. Apparently the corrupt clowns who produced the science in the Wells report - Exponent. Were once again exposed for what they really are. A company that produces scientifically questionable made-to-order reports for their clients.

On May 11, this Court granted Plaintiffs’ Motion to Compel Production of Documents contained on Exponent, Inc.’s Privilege Log … within seven (7) days of the Court’s Order. Exponent has failed to comply with this Order and had indicated that it will continue to disregard this Court’s May 11 order.”
“[T]he Court cannot allow Exponent to stand in violation of a valid Court Order compelling the production of documents.”
“Methodologically sound science has nothing to fear from full and open disclosure.”
“[T]he Court finds that Exponent’s refusal to comply with its May 11, 2015 Order is unreasonable and evidence of deliberate disregard for the court’s authority.”

http://thornography.weei.com/sports/boston/2015/06/29/wells-report-science-firm-exponent-gets-whacked-by-court-order/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

So in many ways I'm hoping Goodell doesn't exonerate Brady. Because if it does go to trial and a Judge wants to get to the bottom of it all. Then I believe the NFL and Goodell are in for a serious legal beating. Of course a judge could rule it's an internal labour relations matter and let the NFL off the hook, that's always a risk. But I'm guessing Brady's legal eagles are smart enough to get Brady his day in court.

JaMarcusHustle

Added this one to the collection today, very hard to get. Decided to go for the older ones now while they're somewhat not impossible to get. I have 12 more various 2001-2004 bobbleheads in the post

JCTO

eagle eye wrote: »

I said it was all about money, I never said he was a coward or anything close to it.

I didn't say you personally

Also re your other post. I am not going to enjoy booing him, I just think it has to be done to show him that we are very disappointed.

As I said waste of breath and silly

And some people on here are saying how great Bob Kraft has been for the New England Patriots. I have always held the man in the same regard as Belichick and Brady. I've even said before that the owner is the most important man in a franchise.

I think he has undone a lot of great work by accepting a penalty for cheating.

So one incident has brought him from great to nothing? Even though the it was a business decision by him that he believes was in the best interest of the team whether we agree or not.

He has undone great work how? A lot of the haters keep saying this without backing it up. How has he undone the great work? He may have not helped the teams reputation with the haters but that is it.

Do you not understand that we are now officially cheaters in the season we won a Superbowl?

So what. We dealt with the spygate easily and anyone with a brain knows the deflategate was nothing but nonsense. I really don't care what anybody thinks of the Pats. Others will forever call us cheats no matter what.

eagle eye

JCTO wrote: »

Even though the it was a business decision by him that he believes was in the best interest of the team whether we agree or not.

It was a decision that is best for his pocket, not for the team. How can you think this is good for the team. How can taking a penalty for cheating when you vehemently deny there was any wrongdoing be good for the team?

JCTO

eagle eye wrote: »

How can you think this is good for the team.

Where in any my posts did I say that I think this is good for the team? Stop with the putting words in my mouth. Not the first time you have done this.

It was a decision that is best for his pocket, not for the team.

It is all business to him. The team has more than the one entity of football. He is a fooking businessman and it baffles me how you can't see that. Of course it benefits his pocket. He wants to stay as an owner he wants the money to keep rolling in as an owner. Of course he is going to protect himself and his assets.

How can taking a penalty for cheating when you vehemently deny there was any wrongdoing be good for the team?

Oh for fook sake this is going around in circles at this point. Look everybody including Kraft knows the Pats did nothing wrong. Well except the haters and the blind fools. But sometimes when your hands are tied and the odds are stacked against you when it comes to business you got to do what you got to do.

All suggestions pointed at Kraft losing all confidence and backing by the other owners. If he felt that he was going to roll with them and not against them for business reasons and to keep his team.

What I don't get here is that none of us truly know how he feels about having to make that decision. For all we know it was the hardest decision he ever made but one he had to make.

I am done on this. You continue to cling to whatever it is you believe about Kraft and then boo him on opening night. Out of curiosity will you be actually at the game to boo him? Or sitting on couch booing him?

eagle eye

JCTO wrote: »

Out of curiosity will you be actually at the game to boo him? Or sitting on couch booing him?

I'll be at the game.

Well as long as Brady's ban is gone. I won't go if Brady is suspended. As I've said already I am considering walking away from the game completely if Brady doesn't get his name cleared. It's just gone too far now for me. This thing has just ripped the heart out of me.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

I'll be at the game.

Well as long as Brady's ban is gone. I won't go if Brady is suspended. As I've said already I am considering walking away from the game completely if Brady doesn't get his name cleared. It's just gone too far now for me. This thing has just ripped the heart out of me.

jesus christ its 4 games if you will leave for that you may as well leave now

JCTO

eagle eye wrote: »

I'll be at the game.

Well as long as Brady's ban is gone. I won't go if Brady is suspended. As I've said already I am considering walking away from the game completely if Brady doesn't get his name cleared. It's just gone too far now for me. This thing has just ripped the heart out of me.

So much for a die hard fan. Its funny to see guys react like this. Call themselves die hard criticise other fans for how die hard they are and then threaten to walk away from the game when something sh1t happens. As a die hard fan you should follow your team to the end of earth and then back and overcome any crap thrown our way.

Tom Brady if forced to do all 4 games will come back firing on all cylinders and I for one am excited to see how he responds to his ban on the field. You got to roll with the hand that life deals you and move on and Tom Brady will do exactly that as will the Pats with or without you.

On a side note I thought about doing it for a brief moment and felt the same way and then asked myself would I have the ability to stay away. Fook no I can't even walk away from this bloody forum nevermind the NFL and the Patriots. It is like Crack in my veins.

Vandango

eagle eye wrote: »

I'll be at the game.

Well as long as Brady's ban is gone. I won't go if Brady is suspended. As I've said already I am considering walking away from the game completely if Brady doesn't get his name cleared. It's just gone too far now for me. This thing has just ripped the heart out of me.

Eagle, I'm sure you were a fan before ever Kraft took over. So don't walk away ffs.

eagle eye

Vandango wrote: »

Eagle, I'm sure you were a fan before ever Kraft took over. So don't walk away ffs.

If I walk away it won't be over Kraft. It'll be goodell and the NFL hierarchy that will be responsible for that.

JaMarcusHustle

Beyond doubting that I have a problem now. New shipment today.

Son Of A Vidic

Jamie Collins just having some fun and not many guys of his size, or in the wider NFL could do this....

https://instagram.com/p/47MNSRgGFs/