New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

Paully D

Hey lads,

Just want to saw unlucky today. It was a great game, a real chess match and decided by one turnover.

Good luck for the offseason and draft and I look forward to the regular season game next season at M&T.

Paully.

Gweedling

I fell asleep just after the Ravens scored their Second TD to go up 14-13, and woke up at the two minute warning. Bollocks anyway.

Son Of A Vidic

Still have to see the game, a total power failure cut off me off during the 49'ers game. Then everything came a back on around 4am and wakes me up, so then I check out the score and .

j8wk2feszrnpao

Didn't deserve to win.
Had a bad feeling at half time.

We had multiple chances to take a decisive lead into the break, but settled for two field goals, and punted twice when in Ravens territory.

It reminded me of a few times this season when the offense struggled to take their opportunities and asking too much of the defense.

The defense isn't good enough to dominate for 60mins, and are always going to give up points against the better teams. So we need the offense to click and help out the defense by converting chances.

The turnovers didn't help, but they just summed up the game and the play of the offense.
Gronk is a huge loss in these games. He's our main weapon and is unplayable when fully fit, as well as been a huge benefit to the running game with his blocking.

We're still one of the better teams in the NFL, and there's no reason not to be optimistic for next season, but a few things will need to improve:
1. Hopefully Jones can produce over a full season. After a positive start, due to injuries his pass rush was non-existent.
2. Dennard and Talib (with McCourty at safety) gave us a much better secondary. With an off season together this can only get stronger.
3. Sign up Welker to a deal. Had a few drops this year, but is still a huge reason for us getting to the AFC Champ game.
4. A successful draft/trade. Can we get a wide receiver that can go up and give us 40/50yrd passing plays. Llyod has done well for us, but too many catches are for short yards.
5. Brady keeps going (36 next Aug). Not really an improvement, but if Brady was to suffer a drop in performance from this year, then obviously the team will struggle.

BizzyC

I don't see Talib staying next season.
He's going to want a big contract, BB wont give him one.

Offensively I'm sure they'll manage to hold onto Welker.
Outside of him, I'm not too concerned about other receivers. We seem to do fine with whoever is in the other slots. Especially when Gronk and Hernandez are healthy.

We really need to address the pass rush and our secondary.

j8wk2feszrnpao

BizzyC wrote: »

I don't see Talib staying next season.
He's going to want a big contract, BB wont give him one.......................
We really need to address the pass rush and our secondary.

Not sure we can help resolve the secondary without keeping Talib.
I agree that we may not be able to afford him if he wants big money, but I'm not sure how we improve as we haven't drafted very well in the past for the secondary position.

I'd expect Chung to be left go. Injures and poor form means he won't be there next season. That may positive for Talib, plus he has spoken of how much he feels at home with the Pats.

Utopia Parkway

BizzyC wrote: »

We really need to address the pass rush and our secondary.

Pats picked up some injuries in vital areas that really hurt them when you think about it.

Gronk injured - Not only the Pats best TE but arguably also their best receiver
Talib injured - By far the best player in their secondary
Jones injured - Was their best pass rusher when he was healthy earlier in the season
Ridley injured - Best RB gets KO'd during the game

These were all areas that the Pats suffered in last night especially the lack of a pass rush and their best cover guy gone.

Belichick doesn't like handing out big contracts but sometimes you just have to overpay to get the right personnel in to make your team better. I mean the Pats hoarded draft picks for years like gold dust when maybe one of those years they should have given up a bunch of those picks to move up and grab a Julio Jones, AJ Green or a Dez Bryant.

As for the secondary the Pats have never drafted players for their secondary well. They've drafted loads of guys and very few of them have worked out. Dennard has been a rare exception. At this stage they are better off fixing their secondary through free agency.

eagle eye

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I mean the Pats hoarded draft picks for years like gold dust when maybe one of those years they should have given up a bunch of those picks to move up and grab a Julio Jones, AJ Green or a Dez Bryant.

As for the secondary the Pats have never drafted players for their secondary well. They've drafted loads of guys and very few of them have worked out. Dennard has been a rare exception. At this stage they are better off fixing their secondary through free agency.

You were going along fine until the first paragraph I quoted above. The Patriots had the no.1 offense in football in 2012. They have consistently been one of the top offenses every season. Welker goes over 1000 yards every season. Suggesting we should have spent big in the draft on a wide receiver is ridiculous.

Simply the problem last night was the pass rush. As I've said time and again, if you give a QB all day in the pocket he is going to find somebody to throw the ball to, you just cannot blame the secondary on its own. There is nothing wrong with the secondary that cannot be fixed by a good pass rush.

The offense was pretty bad last night and a lot of it is on Brady's shoulders because of the amount of tipped balls.

bruschi

another season of lost potential. Getting quite used to this now unfortunately. These kind of teams dont come around that often, so to still not have won a SB since 05 is, in my opinion, a big under achievement considering what has been on the field in that time. I know that probably smacks of the arrogance or bandwagoning and the other crap that routinely gets thrown at any Patriots fan these days, but its reality. There is no expectation to be winning superbowls, but not to have won one in a period where we have had ample opportunities is underachieving.

Last nights game nothing went right. Ravens were just more up for it and played lots better. Their defence was excellent, hiding their coverages and blitzes really well, despite never really putting Brady under that much pressure. Injuries didnt help, and I hated all those stats coming out about us having the same 22 as start of the year, it was just primed for being thrown back in our face, and it did.

I think the things I wished for last year are still what I would wish for this year. A better secondary, better pass rush, and a better WR option, pretty much in that order again. We improved on bits of it during the year (Talib/Dennard, Jones, Lloyd) but need to go another step again. It'll be hard to get another chance of a home championship game, so hopefully the off season sees another level of improvement and we can first of all win the division again.

ReacherCreature

The offense didn't produce, the defense had no pass rush and the secondary played like they did during the season and stretching back two years. I'm immune to how bad we were by now. Credit to Flacco (he is playing brilliantly well), the offense, and their defense, but they were helped due to our ineptitude.

Still a very hard loss to absorb. I'm bitter still (:pac:) but everyone thinks it's so easy being a Patriots fan. We have great reg. seasons (first world nfl fan problems I know, should be glad) but when the playoffs come around, I really worry. Seven years without a Superbowl. Like Tom Brady said "We went undefeated in 2007 and we still lost", the big ones count and when you lose on the grand stage it's difficult to take on board.

eagle eye

The one thing that really disappointed me last night was how little time Shane Vereen saw. I was sure after his epic performance the week before than they would had had loads of plays for him.

bruschi

eagle eye wrote: »

The one thing that really disappointed me last night was how little time Shane Vereen saw. I was sure after his epic performance the week before than they would had had loads of plays for him.

I was going to say some, but a lot of offensive play options called this year by McDaniels have often left me scratching my head wondering WTF was he thinking calling that. It was like tinkering with something for the sale of it, instead of pounding down a team when something was working, whether it be hurry up, all passing, all rushing etc. Almost Madden like perfection type plays to show how all rounded the offence can show itself to be, when I'd have preferred they had kept going on a drive with what was beating down a defence.

SK1979

I said it the other day as well, but I really wish we had some big WR that we could sometimes just throw the ball up to and let him compete to win it. Hell, he doesn't even have to be that big (like Boldin), but some physical guy that will compete with any corner or safety would of helped last night. Maybe Gronk is our guy for that but if he's going to be out again (or not fully fit), having another option would be good.

Apart from that, I'm not too worried about the defence / secondary. We probably put Flacco under more pressure than Brady got, plus if Talib had been in the secondary, it would of coped better.

What about Jennings? Would he come? What would he cost? (not really a big physical guy though...)

Is there many options coming up in the Draft at WR?

eagle eye

SK1979 wrote: »

I said it the other day as well, but I really wish we had some big WR that we could sometimes just throw the ball up to and let him compete to win it. Hell, he doesn't even have to be that big (like Boldin), but some physical guy that will compete with any corner or safety would of helped last night. Maybe Gronk is our guy for that but if he's going to be out again (or not fully fit), having another option would be good.

Apart from that, I'm not too worried about the defence / secondary. We probably put Flacco under more pressure than Brady got, plus if Talib had been in the secondary, it would of coped better.

What about Jennings? Would he come? What would he cost? (not really a big physical guy though...)

Is there many options coming up in the Draft at WR?

Well you said it there, our big physical guy is Gronk. There is cap space to be concerned about when you are talking about bringing in somebody else.

We have Welker, Lloyd, Hernandez and Gronk. I don't think there is any team in the league with a receiving corp to match that. After those there is Edelman and the Patriots will always pick up a veteran and we'll have a new guy from the draft to compete at TC too.

The playoffs were ruined by key injuries this year. We had Gronk and Jones out and they were two huge losses. Talib going down last night left Boldin to dominate the game. You just cannot afford to lose that many key players and expect to win in the playoffs.

SK1979

eagle eye wrote: »

Well you said it there, our big physical guy is Gronk. There is cap space to be concerned about when you are talking about bringing in somebody else.

We have Welker, Lloyd, Hernandez and Gronk. I don't think there is any team in the league with a receiving corp to match that. After those there is Edelman and the Patriots will always pick up a veteran and we'll have a new guy from the draft to compete at TC too.

The playoffs were ruined by key injuries this year. We had Gronk and Jones out and they were two huge losses. Talib going down last night left Boldin to dominate the game. You just cannot afford to lose that many key players and expect to win in the playoffs.

You are right EE, this is really first world problems we're complaining about. I guess for the off-season pay Talib, pay Welker and Franchise Mankins? How would that leave the organisation cap-wise?

Then draft a WR project and some more pass-rushers?

There's a lot to be said for going "all-in" for the next couple of seasons before Brady starts to wain / retire?

davyjose

eagle eye wrote: »

Well you said it there, our big physical guy is Gronk. There is cap space to be concerned about when you are talking about bringing in somebody else.

We have Welker, Lloyd, Hernandez and Gronk. I don't think there is any team in the league with a receiving corp to match that. After those there is Edelman and the Patriots will always pick up a veteran and we'll have a new guy from the draft to compete at TC too.

The playoffs were ruined by key injuries this year. We had Gronk and Jones out and they were two huge losses. Talib going down last night left Boldin to dominate the game. You just cannot afford to lose that many key players and expect to win in the playoffs.

You guys still need someone who can stretch the field. That guy could be Lloyd, but as some of us discussed last night, Brady doesn't seem to trust him 100%

Cap space is an issue too. I'm not sure what you guys have got, but someone like Jennings would be out of range IMO.

What's the chances of letting Welker go? Will you guys sign him to a contract, hit him with the franchise tag, or let him go. Not gonna lie, I have my eye on him. And he'd fit in perfectly with the system the Colts new OC will be running.

me89

SK1979 wrote: »

You are right EE, this is really first world problems we're complaining about. I guess for the off-season pay Talib, pay Welker and Franchise Mankins? How would that leave the organisation cap-wise?

Think Mankins is signed till 2016 its Vollmer thats a FA.

The Guardian

Pats need to freshen things up bigtime.
Sure they'll be competitive again next season but bill and tom aint gonna add to their ring collection without some proper spring cleaning.

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

The one thing that really disappointed me last night was how little time Shane Vereen saw. I was sure after his epic performance the week before than they would had had loads of plays for him.

I was totally, totally baffled by that. Vereen literally exploded against the Texans, he is top form right now and full of confidence. Any other team in the league would have seriously used that weapon after his Texans display. But oh no, not us.

Son Of A Vidic

me89 wrote: »

Think Mankins is signed till 2016 its Vollmer thats a FA.

Correct, Vollmer is the issue, Mankins was sorted out in 2011.

Son Of A Vidic

BizzyC wrote: »

I don't see Talib staying next season.
He's going to want a big contract, BB wont give him one.

Well Bill will have to give him one, because losing Talib would be a very big step in the wrong direction. keeping him is a no-brainer.

eagle eye

BizzyC wrote: »

I don't see Talib staying next season.
He's going to want a big contract, BB wont give him one.



We really need to address the pass rush and our secondary.

Have a read of this and see what you think then.;)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82668010&postcount=1155

davyjose

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Well Bill will have to give him one, because losing Talib would be a very big step in the wrong direction. keeping him is a no-brainer.

Total no brainer. Talib will get a contract for sure.

Brady has already been vocal about Welker staying for 2013, so I think he'll get tagged for one more year. http://tracking.si.com/2013/01/21/patriots-wes-welker-future-uncertain/?sct=hp_t2_a12&eref=sihp

Son Of A Vidic

davyjose wrote: »

Brady has already been vocal about Welker staying for 2013, so I think he'll get tagged for one more year. http://tracking.si.com/2013/01/21/patriots-wes-welker-future-uncertain/?sct=hp_t2_a12&eref=sihp

Amongst other things, Welker kept us going when a lot of our receiving corp were crocked during this season. He's also another no-brainer and it's highly amusing to read some muppet posts about him in other threads.

BizzyC

I never agree when people use the term "no-brainer" when BB is involved...

It makes sense to us, doesn't mean it's going to happen.

BizzyC

eagle eye wrote: »

Have a read of this and see what you think then.;)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82668010&postcount=1155

We see too many occasions where "business" gets in the way of sentiment like this though.

Son Of A Vidic

BizzyC wrote: »

I never agree when people use the term "no-brainer" when BB is involved...

It makes sense to us, doesn't mean it's going to happen.

I don't think any of us would disagree with you there.

Red Crow

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Amongst other things, Welker kept us going when a lot of our receiving corp were crocked during this season. He's also another no-brainer and it's highly amusing to read some muppet posts about him in other threads.

It's not the fact that its a no brainer because NE are a much better team with those two guys its whether or not its affordable.

It's not just other threads though. Other Pats fans don't rate Welker. Just look at the Pats forums. I think that's stupid personally but it's not just something that's on here.

It's all about money anyway. If Welker wants top 5 WR money then can you really afford to keep him?

I think he'll stay. Him and Brady work too well together. It'd be stupid to break that up. I don't think he'll be paid as a top 5 WR.

eagle eye

Eli Manning wrote: »

It's not the fact that its a no brainer because NE are a much better team with those two guys its whether or not its affordable.

It's not just other threads though. Other Pats fans don't rate Welker. Just look at the Pats forums. I think that's stupid personally but it's not just something that's on here.

It's all about money anyway. If Welker wants top 5 WR money then can you really afford to keep him?

I think he'll stay. Him and Brady work too well together. It'd be stupid to break that up. I don't think he'll be paid as a top 5 WR.

Of course the Patriots can afford to keep him. They always manage the cap well to make sure they have room for new contracts. They were trying to sign up Wes last year but he wasn't happy with the contract so he ended up being franchise tagged and earned huge money. I think its about the length of the contract for him, he was believed to be happy with the money being offered but wanted more years.

Red Crow

eagle eye wrote: »

Of course the Patriots can afford to keep him. They always manage the cap well to make sure they have room for new contracts. They were trying to sign up Wes last year but he wasn't happy with the contract so he ended up being franchise tagged and earned huge money. I think its about the length of the contract for him, he was believed to be happy with the money being offered but wanted more years.

According to some sources they were about 4M off. So it's hard to know.