New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

Son Of A Vidic

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Agent Gronk busy tapping up Brady's eventual successor. Good work Gronk, good work :cool:

I just hope agent Gronk didn't body slam him later on that night.

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd also like to see them get somebody at SS and in the second round if they could get Elam from Florida and we all know Bill likes Gators.

Elam's an interesting kid, good versatility and physicality, my only issue with him is he's a bit undersized.

eagle eye

I won a competition and where they told me I'd get a t-shirt of my favourite team. I picked the Patriots and was expecting a t-shirt or if I was lucky maybe a polo style one but just got it in the post now and its one of these:)

http://proshop.patriots.com/p/nike-elite-tom-brady-12-jerseynavy/pid/35182/sdid/106/pdid/106/

JaMarcus Hustle

Back of the net EE!

Son Of A Vidic

Any of you have a most disappointing player of the season? Mine was Hernandez, ya I know his injury certainly didn't help him, but overall I can't help but feel pretty disappointing with him this season. But fair play to him, apparently he has rented a house out in California near Brady's gaff and they'll be having private workouts together in the offseason. That can only bode really well for next season and what a great attitude from the kid. High time that Gronk took note and copped himself on.

Son Of A Vidic

macker20 wrote: »

Go Pats!!

Or do you mean Go Pack! Go Colts! Go Niners! Go Ravens ect, ect, like you've said in every other team thread? Maybe just GO and take your bullshít spam elsewhere.

counterlock

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Or do you mean Go Pack! Go Colts! Go Niners! Go Ravens ect, ect, like you've said in every other team thread? Maybe just GO and take your bullshít spam elsewhere.

Or just go report the post?

Son Of A Vidic

counterlock wrote: »

Or just go report the post?

No point, because when I posted that it was three o'clock in the morning.

Son Of A Vidic

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

I would love to see us pick up Jonathan Cyprien in the 2nd or 3rd (do we have a 3rd this year?)

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Four picks available in this years draft - 1st Round, 2nd Round, 3rd Round and the 7th Round.

Think I'm wrong there JaMarcus, I think we got a 7th round pick from the Buccs when we gave our 4th round pick for Talib. So I think we have two 7th round picks in this years draft.

BizzyC

I was a little disappointed in Hightower actually.

When he was drafted he was really sold as an incredible athlete who was going to have immediate impact.
He was good, but I dont think the team played all that better with him in then out.

Chandler Jones, now he was an impact rookie....

Son Of A Vidic

Hightower was good stopping the run, especially working with Mayo and Spikes on the field. His 43 tackles - 17 assists - and 4 sacks is a foundation to build on. He did miss two games and was limited for a couple with that hamstring injury he was carrying to. But look at Jones stats, 24 Tackles - 21 assists and 6 sacks. Not much difference between him and Hightower, Jones is a more eye catching, dramatic player on the filed. Hightower just does a quieter, less eye catching job position wise.

Defensively I was disappointing with Jake Bequette not getting much game time, ya he has competition in front of him but he showed some good pass rush skills in training camp. On a positive, he did win practice player of the week a couple of times, which shows he's going in the right direction. Jones and Hightower were always likely to fit right in as starters. Hopefully 2013 could be a break out year for Bequette.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Most disappointing for me was Lloyd.
I thought we were bringing in a guy that would stretch the field and open up the middle at least.
But reports from training camp suggested that he wasn't doing this and was dropping balls.
I don't think Lloyd was a disaster, I just don't think we needed another guy that was getting 5-10yrds, when we needed a deep threat that would get 40-50yrds.

BizzyC

The big difference for me between Jones and Hightower was impact.
When Jones was out there was a noticeable dip in D-Line pressure.

When Hightower was out, there wasn't really any noticeable impact.

Son Of A Vidic

Odin Brief Watchband wrote: »

Most disappointing for me was Lloyd.
I thought we were bringing in a guy that would stretch the field and open up the middle at least.

If that's what the Pats were expecting then yes it has been a disappointing. Lloyd just wasn't the specialist deep threat, but it's hard to know if that's on him, or Brady just not trusting him for the deep ball. Overall I think he had a good season -

Lyold:Targetted 130 times - 74 receptions - 911 Yards - 4TD's

compare that to...

Ochocinco: Targetted 32 times - 15 receptions - 276 Yards - 1TD

Is Lloyd good enough to stay with us? Yes I think so. A year under his belt, another camp, there's no reason why he can't build and improve on 2012. But if we want a fast, specialist deep threat? Then he's not the man. But boy he has made some fantastic catches this season. Interestingly enough, when we needed him the most, he played his best game in the almost a comeback game against the 49'ers. Personally I like him and I hope he stays.

Masked Man

I really don't see the point in us investing in a deep threat specialist. Brady's deep ball isn't that good.

bruschi

Masked Man wrote: »

I really don't see the point in us investing in a deep threat specialist. Brady's deep ball isn't that good.

Randy Moss?

Whilst there may be debate on his deep throwing qualities, it doesnt really matter how good he is at it to an extent. If your team will only run, or play short screens and passes, then the defence will defend for that. But if you have the ability to throw long and deep, then it means the defence will spread that bit more. Having the capability is, IMO, as important as being able to act on it.

Son Of A Vidic

Dennard goes on trial today, fingers crossed all goes well for him.

BizzyC

Brady has a deceptively strong arm.

Sure he's no Matt Stafford or Brett Favre, but he can air it out better than most.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Is Lloyd good enough to stay with us?

It depends. I think he does his job very well, and many of he catches he makes are outstanding. I think he did well this year, I just was expecting something else from him; which after checking is record in previous years, was never really there.

We have enough targets in the middle with Wes and the TE's.

If he stays, then I'm not sure that Wes will. We need someone that can stretch the field and open up the middle if we want to hit those targets.

Targets if Wes Doesn't stay:
Percy Harvin - young at 24 - Would like to see how he'd do with with a real QB
Mike Wallace - age 26 - Didn't have a great year, but is quality, can we afford him?
Greg Jennings - age 29 - Will probably look for too much money - his production is on a downwards trend for me

j8wk2feszrnpao

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Dennard goes on trial today, fingers crossed all goes well for him.

He's a starter for next season, so this could be very important.

Masked Man

Randy Moss was a long time ago.

http://nflmanniac.blogspot.ie/2012/12/myth-or-fact-tom-brady-is-elite-qb-in.html



can't vouch for their stats. assuming they're good.

I think 2011.

Tom Brady: Brady threw for 5,232 yards completing 65.5% of his passes, of those 5,232 yards, just 522 came on passes thrown longer than 20 yards (or roughly 10%). Brady also despite having a strong arm and very good accuracy, was just 15-57 on those passes, or 26% completion rate.Of those passes Brady was just 1-15 on balls thrown 31 yards or more.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/9/4/3291805/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics-dont-trust-the-deep-ball-passing-attack

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/47967/tom-bradys-missing-deep-ball

j8wk2feszrnpao

Masked Man wrote: »

Randy Moss was a long time ago.

Yeah, and we haven't replaced him, or come close to replacing him, since he left.
How often has Brady had a target open deep down the field?

Look at Flacco this year. Torrey Smith wasn't even open at times, but still made huge plays.

Son Of A Vidic

Masked Man wrote: »

Randy Moss was a long time ago.

But he's the only real deep threat he has ever had. Any QB can fling the ball down the field, accuracy is the key and Brady's is legendary. I counted 6 deep pass attempts earlier in the season, where Brady threw to Lloyd and Lloyd made a balls of it. You could even see Brady make the last minute adjustment on those attempts, to take the ball out of the range of the pass coverage. You can't blame a QB for that.

bruschi

but again, the point being that you dont necessarily need to be the best deep passer for it to be effective. what you want is for the field to be spread, so if you have no deep option, then the defence will sit closer to the line of scrimmage and make it harder for the short throws and runs. You can only do this if you have a viable deep threat WR, which we havent had since Moss.

any chance of stats showing how accurate or good Brady was when he had a proper deep threat in Moss? I mean, who were his targets for the last few years? Underwood? Slater? Tate? Ochostinko? There has been no one to adequately put fear into a defence to sit their coverage back deep.

j8wk2feszrnpao

bruschi wrote: »

There has been no one to adequately put fear into a defence to sit their coverage back deep.

That's why Llyod is my biggest disappointment.

Again, not due to the player himself (who did well with his given role), but I had thought he was that guy to threaten/hold the safeties/secondary.

The offense needs this threat, and there are a few guys that we can target.
I just can't see us get that guy, and keep Wes.
We all love what Wes has done for us (I've got his name on my jersey), but I just can see us giving him the tag or the contract he can get elsewhere.

It'll be a shame if he goes, as we are close to a SB winning team, and I'd love to see him get a ring.

eagle eye

Comparing anybody to Moss 2007 is just a waste of time. He was super fast with an incredible reach and unreal hands.

In order to see the best of Lloyd going long you would have to have somebody going deep on the opposite side so that the deep cover has to guess where the ball is going. The Patriots don't do that because we have three receivers on the field for most plays who are capable of picking up the first downs in Welker, Gronk and Hernandez. We don't play with the y receiver often enough, its usually a y TE and that opens up the field for short routes. It means that you will see the opposing cover move up the field and there is a possibility of the deep ball working but you need an absolute burner who is a big target to make it work.

There is no need to fix whats not broken. We were the no.1 offense in football in the regular season. The Patriots will continue to evolve as long as Belichick is in charge and maybe at some stage they will revert to some type of y wide receiver for most plays but I don't think its going to happen anytime soon.

The Patriots have to work on is getting that pass rush functioning for next season and improving the secondary.

JaMarcus Hustle

Masked Man wrote: »

I really don't see the point in us investing in a deep threat specialist. Brady's deep ball isn't that good.

Couldn't agree more. God knows I love TFB, but I'd rather we compliment him with weapons that work to his strengths. His deep ball isn't bad, but it's not great either and it's not down to arm strength, it's more accuracy than anything. I can recall a few criminal overthrows the past couple of years. It's why I wasn't too keen on the Mike Wallace talk last season. Randy Moss was different, Moss was a guy you could toss a ball up to and he would win it from defenders, even if the throw wasn't entirely on the money - similar to Megatron in a way. Unless that specific type of deep threat comes along, then I don't want us to pursue a big name WR purely because he can stretch the field.

Honestly, I'd prefer a possession receiver like Danny Amendola to a speedster like Wallace. Of course, a nice hybrid of the two such as Percy Harvin would be the dream, but that's just me being greedy. We haven't many problems on offence, but any we do have - imo - have been brought about through not having Gronkowski and Hernandez healthy at the same time. Our two TE setup is crucial, but hopefully Jake Ballard can help us out next year should (when ) Gronk or Hernandez go down again. Had a smile on my face the other day when I realised we've had him stashed away for next year

eagle eye

One thing I'm really looking forward to next year is watching Jeff Demps take the kick returns. With his speed we could be nicely set up a lot.

j8wk2feszrnpao

eagle eye wrote: »

There is no need to fix whats not broken.

It may not be broken, but the offence has failed come playoff time in the recent years. The defense doesn't help, but the offence is where we've invested and it's been nullified in the big games in the playoffs when we play the big teams.

We currently go into next season with the No1 ranked regular season offence, but I'm not sure that's the case come playoff time.

Of course it'd be great if our defense was good enough to enable us to win 10:6 in those games, but it's not, and I'm not sure that we can draft/trade our way to having that good a defense this year or next year (cause after that there will be no Tom Brady, then we'll be in trouble offensively).

Now, in saying all that; a fit Gronk for the last two years in the playoffs could have resulted in two SB wins (particularly last season's SB)

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

One thing I'm really looking forward to next year is watching Jeff Demps take the kick returns. With his speed we could be nicely set up a lot.

A real pity he picked up that ankle injury prior to the season opener. He is blistering fast and I remember one burst of rocket speed during preseason on a run play. A small gap and the next thing he was gone 29 yards in a blink. It would be nice to have him fit and ready for 2013 alright.