New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

eagle eye

Odin Brief Watchband wrote: »

It may not be broken, but the offence has failed come playoff time in the recent years. The defense doesn't help, but the offence is where we've invested and it's been nullified in the big games in the playoffs when we play the big teams.

We currently go into next season with the No1 ranked regular season offence, but I'm not sure that's the case come playoff time.

Of course it'd be great if our defense was good enough to enable us to win 10:6 in those games, but it's not, and I'm not sure that we can draft/trade our way to having that good a defense this year or next year (cause after that there will be no Tom Brady, then we'll be in trouble offensively).

Now, in saying all that; a fit Gronk for the last two years in the playoffs could have resulted in two SB wins (particularly last season's SB)

We were third best in the postseason and the best passing team in the playoffs.

The problem is that you are going to lose a game here and there and unfortunately for us we lost to a Ravens team which was inspired by the Ray Lewis retirement.

There is nothing wrong with the offense, the D has to improve. It it improves we score more because we are on the field more often.

Son Of A Vidic

Odin Brief Watchband wrote: »

He's a starter for next season, so this could be very important.

Aside from what happened Dennard on that infamous night, he's always been known as a pretty good, decent kid. So what allegedly happened shocked a lot of people who know him like coaches and friend ect. Totally out of character, then witnesses have also claimed the police were way ott and grabbed Dennard from behind when he then lashed out when blindsided. Regardless, I think it will work out O.K. I loved when we drafted him last year and he surpassed my expectations in his first season. If he improves on his rookie season, then it will only mean good things for our secondary.

eagle eye

Here is a game from way back in full. Bledsoe was incredible that night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBme7jYA_UE

j8wk2feszrnpao

eagle eye wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with the offense, the D has to improve. It it improves we score more because we are on the field more often.

Week 2 against the Cardinals had me really worried. The state of the defense means that the offense needs 25-30pts to win games, and that tough to keep doing. It's even tougher in the post-season.

So I wold agree that if the defense can improve so that 15-20pts is enough to win, then I'll all for that.
I'm just not sure that it can.

BizzyC

Completely forgot about Demps....

If they teach him to run deep routes....

Son Of A Vidic

This was the 29 yard run Demps made in preseason, that I was referring to yesterday....

As Patriots running back Jeff Demps exploded through the middle of the offensive line and made a Buccaneers safety whiff, the football world finally caught a glimpse of what track aficionados have already known.

That kid can burn.

Demps’ 29-yard run was one of the highlights on a night that didn’t have many for the Patriots, who lost to the Bucs, 30-28. It was tied for the longest play of the game, and it was an attention grabber

http://bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2012/08/jeff_demps_stands_out_big_run_returns

At 5'7 I can't see him doing much on deep routes though. I'm also not sure what his hands are like, so it will be interesting to see him during the preseason.

JaMarcus Hustle

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I'm also not sure what his hands are like, so it will be interesting to see him during the preseason.

His hands are surprisingly good, or at least they were in college. He was a YAC monster, which you just know Brady will absolutely love.

Son Of A Vidic

eagle eye wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with the offense, the D has to improve. It it improves we score more because we are on the field more often.

I agree EE, but the thing that worries me about the offense was how it totally misfired against the Ravens. I'm sure we realise that we are not going launch repeated scoring drives, against the best red zone defense in the league. But as the best offense in the league, we should expect to be scoring every other drive or two. But what happened against the Ravens was unheard of, totally shut out of the game offensively in the second half. Not one score, that hasn't happened for quite a while. Oh they got the field position but had a failure on execution. So what that tells me is when we really, really need our offense juggernaut to get into gear, it failed to do so. Now that worries me.

I don't know if any of you guys feel this way at times, but often If feel we make things too complex on offense. Sometimes having the smartest offense in the league can bite you. Take Vereen for example, he lit up the field against the Texans, he came of age and showed everyone what he could do. What an offense weapon to have, the ultimate nightmare who can burn you with a run or reception. But what do we do against the Ravens? We don't use him, ah no that would be too predictable. Sometimes I think our offense tries to be too clever for it's own good. Even worse and the greatest sin for me, is having a great offense that is underutilised at the wrong time.

Son Of A Vidic

The reason we love Gronk, look at the T-shirt...

BizzyC

He is short for a deep threat, but his speed will force DB's to sit back.
If they don't, he'll blow by them and wont need to out-jump anyone.

I'm not suggesting he could be a catch-in-traffic deep threat, but he could be handy in keeping defences honest.

BizzyC

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I don't know if any of you guys feel this way at times, but often If feel we make things too complex on offense. Sometimes having the smartest offense in the league can bite you. Take Vereen for example, he lit up the field against the Texans, he came of age and showed everyone what he could do. What an offense weapon to have, the ultimate nightmare who can burn you with a run or reception. But what do we do against the Ravens? We don't use him, ah no that would be too predictable. Sometimes I think our offense tries to be too clever for it's own good. Even worse and the greatest sin for me, is having a great offense that is underutilised at the wrong time.

I agree.
We used to have more of a failover style about game plans.

Once a defence figures out how to stop what we're doing, then we show them this other thing we've been working on that they've never seen before...

Whereas now we seem to assume the tried and tested method wont work and create a brand new scheme without trying it...

For example, what the hell happened to the quick offence?
It was burning defences consistently, but we started doing it less and less.
No one actually managed to shut it down, but we still moved away from it....

Hazys

Pats Players Cap Hits:

QB Tom Brady: $21,800,000
DLVince Wilfork: $10,600,000
G Logan Mankins: $10,000,000
LB Jerod Mayo: $5,600,000
WR Brandon Lloyd: $4,500,000
TE Aaron Hernandez: $4,073,000
K Stephen Gostkowski: $3,400,000
C/G Dan Connolly: $3,333,333
DE Rob Ninkovich: $3,066,668
TE Rob Gronkowski: $2,750,000
S Steve Gregory: $2,558,333
OT Nate Solder: $2,329,225
WR Matthew Slater: $2,266,666
G Brian Waters: $2,225,000
DE Chandler Jones: $1,857,613
DB Devin McCourty: $1,845,000
LB Dont'a Hightower: $1,755,455
TE Daniel Fells: $1,583,333
CB Ras-I Dowling: $1,446,572
P Zoltan Mesko: $1,369,814
DT Kyle Love: $1,100,000
C Ryan Wendell: $1,015,000
DE Jermaine Cunningham: $960,000
S Tavon Wilson: $958,613
RB Shane Vereen: $943,950
FB Spencer Larsen: $875,000
LB Brandon Spikes: $870,000
RB Stevan Ridley: $805,500
QB Ryan Mallett: $803,953
C/G Nick McDonald: 656,668
DL Brandon Deaderick: $640,075
OL Marcus Cannon: $637,687
DE Marcus Benard: $630,000
DL Myron Pryor: $630,000
LB Dane Fletcher: $620,000
DE Jake Bequette: $619,950
QB Mike Kafka: $555,000
TE Jake Ballard: $555,000
WR Andre Holmes: $555,000
LB Jeff Tarpinian: $555,000
LS Danny Aiken: $555,000
S Nate Ebner: $504,150
CB Alfonzo Dennard: $494,462
LB Mike Rivera: $490,000
RB Brandon Bolden: $485,000
OL Markus Zusevics: $484,333
DE Justin Francis: $482,333
FB James Develin: $480,000
DL Marcus Forston: $480,000
WR Kamar Aiken: $480,000
DB Malcolm Williams: $480,000
RB Jeff Demps: $408,666
OL Kyle Hix: $408,000
TE Brad Herman: $405,833
DL Armond Armstead: $405,000
WR Jeremy Ebert: $405,000
DL Tracy Roberston: $405,000
Total: $111,299,185
(Contract information for defensive end Jason Vega not yet available).

Hazys

Players i see possibly getting cut:

G Logan Mankins: $10,000,000 - Highly doubtful - he has a huge cap number and he is no longer a standout guy on the OLine...has his play been that much better than Solder, Vollmer, Wendell and Connolly to justify 1.5x their salary combined?

WR Brandon Lloyd: $4,500,000 - Possible - A lot for an above average WR. I hope he stays and makes improves on his above average season of last year

K Stephen Gostkowski: $3,400,000 - Very Possible - Extremely inconsistent this season and cost us games. When he lost a season and Shane Graham came on a veteran minimum, he outplayed him. His kickoffs also aren't as valuable as they used to be with the shortened field. I could very easily see him get cut in the off-season and us bringing in 2 vets on the minimum and have them fight it for a spot.

S Steve Gregory: $2,558,333 - Possible - A lot for an average safety. His play was sub par this season, i think they give him one more season to see if he improves.

TE Daniel Fells: $1,583,333 - Gone

CB Ras-I Dowling: $1,446,572 - Possible - Seems very injury prone like he was in college. Could possibly be a talent but if he cant stay healthy whats the point? I'd say he'll be given his shot in training camp to make the team.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Hazys wrote: »

Players i see possibly getting cut:

Agreed with your choices, and I'd like to see Llyod stay for another season (unless we do get trade for a top WR).

JaMarcus Hustle

Hazys wrote: »

K Stephen Gostkowski: $3,400,000 - Very Possible - Extremely inconsistent this season and cost us games. When he lost a season and Shane Graham came on a veteran minimum, he outplayed him. His kickoffs also aren't as valuable as they used to be with the shortened field. I could very easily see him get cut in the off-season and us bringing in 2 vets on the minimum and have them fight it for a spot.

Keep in mind that $800,000 of this would be dead money, and the new salary cap rules mean that we'd also have to absorb his 2014 guaranteed amount in 2013 (another $800,000). Factor in the ~ $1m you'd be paying his replacement and you're only saving less than $1m. Thanks, but no thanks - I'd rather keep Gostkowski for another year in that case. More likely to be cut next year seeing as there'd be only $800k in dead money and factoring in the increases in Hernandez/Gronk's base salaries following their signings.

Hazys

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

Keep in mind that $800,000 of this would be dead money, and the new salary cap rules mean that we'd also have to absorb his 2014 guaranteed amount in 2013 (another $800,000). Factor in the ~ $1m you'd be paying his replacement and you're only saving less than $1m. Thanks, but no thanks - I'd rather keep Gostkowski for another year in that case. More likely to be cut next year seeing as there'd be only $800k in dead money and factoring in the increases in Hernandez/Gronk's base salaries following their signings.

Ya i don't know the full extent of each contract. I'd be very surprised if we were able to cut Mankins and get a clean break on the $10m

JaMarcus Hustle

I would say it's much more likely we keep Mankins and let Vollmer walk.

Masked Man

Any idea what will happen with Waters this year.

JaMarcus Hustle

Masked Man wrote: »

Any idea what will happen with Waters this year.

We'll either trade him or cut him. We offered him $4 million last year and he wouldn't report, and that's when our O-line was looking dodgy during preseason. It got a hell of a lot better as the season progressed so I can't see us going back to him now.

Hazys

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

We'll either trade him or cut him. We offered him $4 million last year and he wouldn't report, and that's when our O-line was looking dodgy during preseason. It got a hell of a lot better as the season progressed so I can't see us going back to him now.

Or we'll do what we did last year and put him on the failed to report list, where the Pats don't pay him and he cant go anywhere else.

If we cut him, he'll be on the Texans roster the next day.

Red Crow

Waters wanted to play in Texas. The Pats wouldn't release him so he didnt play. He's a FA now and won't be coming back.

Masked Man

He's a FA now and won't be coming back.

Nope.

Son Of A Vidic

BizzyC wrote: »

For example, what the hell happened to the quick offence?

God knows, there were so many times when we could have gone no huddle and fried teams, yet we didn't. The one team no one wants to see go no huddle is the Pats and yet inexplicably when we should have at times, we didn't.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Masked Man wrote: »

Nope.

That's good for the Pats.
He does hold some trade value, but maybe only for Cowboys/Texans.

Son Of A Vidic

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

I would say it's much more likely we keep Mankins and let Vollmer walk.

For a man who came back from back issues, Vollmer has been a rock on the O line. I don't think the Pats are stupid enough to let either of those guys go tbh.

eagle eye

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

For a man who came back from back issues, Vollmer has been a rock on the O line. I don't think the Pats are stupid enough to let either of those guys go tbh.

Its all coming down to money with Vollmer. If a big offer comes in for him then he will be gone. I don't think they are going for franchise him because of his injury history.

JaMarcus Hustle

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

For a man who came back from back issues, Vollmer has been a rock on the O line. I don't think the Pats are stupid enough to let either of those guys go tbh.

It's not a case of letting him go because he's not good enough, it's a case of spreading our cap space around. You can't invest too much in one area of the field and we already have a lot invested in the O-line. I'd rather stick Cannon or a vet free agent in at RT and spend our limited cap space on Talib/Welker than spend a big chunk of it on Vollmer. Let's just say I trust Dante Scarnecchia compensating for a lack of Vollmer a hell of a lot more than I trust Patricia/Boyer compensating for a lack of Talib.

Son Of A Vidic

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

I trust Dante Scarnecchia compensating for a lack of Vollmer a hell of a lot more than I trust Patricia/Boyer compensating for a lack of Talib.

Scarnecchia is a genuine coaching legend and he will always work his magic with the O line. So no matter who goes, he will cover the gaps. But after a season of tinkering, I'd rather let the O line starters we have stick together. Nobody can cover Solder at LT if he goes down, the way Vollmer can. He played pretty well for a guy with back issues and that will be the issue that will decide it in the end I think. The veteran free agency is a path I'd stay clear off. We made a lot of poor selections on picks from last year.

Son Of A Vidic

Anyone have any opinions on Steve Gregory? I was generally disappointed with him. I was hoping he would have a 'Talib' style of effect on the secondary, but he didn't and he had a few bad games along the way. His attitude is top notch though. I think he's staying around again this off season to get a head start at next year. But since it is very unlikely that Chung will be back, I can't see Gregory going anywhere right now.

BizzyC

Terrence McGee dropped by Buffalo.

If healthy, he could provide an interesting pickup...