New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

TO.

The sh*te a side Kraft reckons the Pats could be playing the opener with the Ravens. Having said that the NFL have hit a problem there as the Orioles play at home that night and the NFL have asked the Orioles to move their fixture forward a couple of hours.

eagle eye

There might be more to this than just having a go at Welker's agent. The Patriots reputation may have been tarnished by some of whats went on over the past few weeks. By giving out the details he is just showing that the Patriots are not penny pinchers but will give a person a fair contract which becomes a large one if they continue to perform.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

There might be more to this than just having a go at Welker's agent. The Patriots reputation may have been tarnished by some of whats went on over the past few weeks. By giving out the details he is just showing that the Patriots are not penny pinchers but will give a person a fair contract which becomes a large one if they continue to perform.

How has the Pat's reputation been tarnished by any of it? I can't see any more to this other than Kraft venting and breaking his own code of saying nothing. The best thing he could have done is said nothing and move on. If Welker's agent wants to continue being a knob end let him.

I personally believe the truth to this mess is somewhere in between and Kraft venting on the defensive confirms that in my mind. The fact he broke the Patriot Way that him and Bill stand so proudly behind has shown in my eyes this has gotten a tad personal for him.

Edit: To add the Patriots have gone through a lot worse than an Agent bad mouthing the Pats to be fair. Spygate for one was a lot worse on the clubs reputation than this and the Patriots said nothing in public about it unless it was an official statement. Why break the Patriot Way now?

Son Of A Vidic

Here's eveyything Robert Kraft said on the Welker sitaution earlier...

PHOENIX – Robert Kraft met with media members here at the Arizona Biltmore, site of the 2013 NFL annual meeting, and obviously Wes Welker and Tom Brady were going to be discussed.


Right off the bat, Kraft was asked about what happened with Welker and losing the receiver to the Denver Broncos last week via free agency.
Kraft launched into an unprecedented explanation of the how things went down, including financial details.
"We usually don’t talk about contracts, but I’'d like to clear up what I think is some misconceptions about the Wes situation," Kraft began. "I'’ll go into limited financial details. You know, everyone in our organization wanted Wes Welker back. Anyone who doubts that, or thinks we weren’'t serious just doesn't get it. I’'ve owned the team 19 years and I'’ve known in the end we have to have certain limits and restraints.



"Like I'’ve said many times, I really wanted Wes to be with us through the rest of his career, but it takes two sides to do a deal. The only person in my life who had unlimited financial ability to do whatever they wanted was my late, sweet wife (Myra). Everything else has boundaries."
Even with those boundaries, Kraft feels the Patriots' offer to Welker was very fair. "In Wes' case, we were willing to go what we considered above his market value. For a couple years, we tried to get a long-term deal done with him," Kraft said. "We couldn'’t do a deal and we wound up franchising him at a very high number [for 2012, $9.5 million].



"In retrospect, I wish we could have wrapped that into an arrangement where it was part of a longer-term deal. But I really believe in this case, his agents misrepresented, in their mind, what his market value was. When you come right down to the bottom line, he accepted a deal in Denver which is less money than what we offered him. "In fact, he has a one-year deal in Denver for $6 million. Our last offer, before we would have even gone up and before we thought we were going into free agency, was a $10 million offer with incentives that would have earned him another $6 million if he performed the way he had the previous two years.



But in Denver, he'’s going to count $4 million against the cap this coming year and $8 million the second year. There is no guarantee that he plays the second year there. He will get $6 million the first year. Our deal, he would have gotten $8 million the first year, our last offer to him.
"So in fact, our offer was better than what in fact he got from Denver."
Kraft said he's sad that Welker had to leave, and insisted that everyone in the Patriots' organization wanted the team's franchise leader in receptions to remain in New England.


"Wes Welker, just to be very clear, was our first choice to be with the team. When free agency came, his agents (Welker is represented by Athletes First, one of the most powerful agencies in the NFL) kept insisting on a very high number that was beyond our number, we had to go work alternatives "Our second alternative was Danny Amendola. (Welker) had offers from other teams. So we made a judgment that Wes, unfortunately, probably wouldn't we be with us. We made this commitment to Amendola."


Kraft continued that Welker called both him and Bill Belichick on Wednesday to inform them of his offer from the Broncos, but with Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, and, by then Amendola – all players who play in the middle of the field – already under contract, "it was just unfortunately a little bit too late. "If he had called one day earlier, he would have been with us. And so that is the Wes Welker story. I'm very sad about it and I wish he would have been with our team."


The interview continued, but that was Kraft's opening salvo.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2013/03/robert_kraft_we_1.html?camp=misc:patriots&SREF=Optin&dlvrit=834384

Son Of A Vidic

The potential for shít stirring by the media was endless with the Welker situation. So it totally makes sense to me why he revealed more than normal though. He clearly wants to give his and the Patriots angle on what happened and just move on. It's one thing coming out and saying for example "Ya, Lloyd was a nutjob, the team hated him." That would be unpatriot like. Quite another basically saying Welker's agent fúcked it up and giving some extra detail on it to nip it in the bud.

eagle eye

TO. wrote: »

How has the Pat's reputation been tarnished by any of it? I can't see any more to this other than Kraft venting and breaking his own code of saying nothing. The best thing he could have done is said nothing and move on. If Welker's agent wants to continue being a knob end let him.

I personally believe the truth to this mess is somewhere in between and Kraft venting on the defensive confirms that in my mind. The fact he broke the Patriot Way that him and Bill stand so proudly behind has shown in my eyes this has gotten a tad personal for him.

Edit: To add the Patriots have gone through a lot worse than an Agent bad mouthing the Pats to be fair. Spygate for one was a lot worse on the clubs reputation than this and the Patriots said nothing in public about it unless it was an official statement. Why break the Patriot Way now?

I think the reason for this is future negotiations with FAs and draft picks and even their own players. They are making it clear that they did make a good offer to Welker.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

I think the reason for this is future negotiations with FAs and draft picks and even their own players. They are making it clear that they did make a good offer to Welker.

I don't believe for 1 second that any current or future player would ever think the Pats didn't offer Welker a fair deal.

But there is clear bitterness in the interview. Especially where he compares the 2 contracts. The part by saying Welker could only be in Denver for 1 year instead of the 2 as agreed in the contract. The same could be said for the Pats also. Who is to say Welker has a bad season with the Pats had he stayed and gets dumped after 1 season. There was absolutely no reason for Kraft to even come out and say any of it.

Have the Pats really become that concerned about what people and the media think about the club? Gone are the days were they didn't and just got on with it and stuck to the Patriots way. I for one was proud of the non caring attitude carried by the Pats and not lowering themselves to some media twat or classless agent. Not so much on that aspect anymore.

Whether you agree or not my opinion of it will stick with some sort of personal emotion going into his interview and some bitterness to boot. Even if he always intended to make a partially official statement to the press to give the Pats side of things.

TO.

Per a league source, Adrian Wilson signed a 3-year deal with the Patriots worth $5m. He got a $1m signing bonus. Has a $1m base in '13.

Son Of A Vidic

FB Tony Fiammetta has been reinstated to the active roster by the Patriots. He was placed on the reserve/left squad last August to deal with a family issue. Up until he left last August, he had been having a pretty good training camp.

Gronkastic

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

FB Tony Fiammetta has been reinstated to the active roster by the Patriots. He was placed on the reserve/left squad last August to deal with a family issue. Up until he left last August, he had been having a pretty good training camp.

He's a very good blocker and potential special teams candidate. In 2011 with Fiammetta as a lead blocker, Coboys RB Murray went 601 yards on 75 carries (8.01 YPC). But when Fiammetta went down injured, Murray only managed 198 yards on 59 carries, averaging 3.36 yards per carry.

Son Of A Vidic

Regarding our queries about what cap space we have left, here's an update from Greg Bedard......

With some of the Patriots' new contracts coming in, we have a better idea of where the Patriots are in regards to the cap. As best we can tell, the Patriots now have $107,858,353 paid to their top 51 players for cap purposes. The release of Brandon Lloyd saved the team $4.5 million against the cap this year, but cost them $2 million in dead cap space. Lloyd was not designated a June 1 cut, so the dead money goes on this year to give the Patriots a total of $6,514,529.

That means the Patriots have paid out $114,372,882. With the 2012 cap carryover, they are operating on an adjusted cap of $129,656,344. So the total remaining is approximately $15,283,462. However, the Patriots should be budgeting anywhere from $8-12 million to save for draft picks, incentives, and any possible extensions they would like to do before free agency next year. So in reality, the Patriots have about $3-7 million to toy with

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2013/03/patriots_cap_sp.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

CJC86

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Regarding our queries about what cap space we have left, here's an update from Greg Bedard......

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2013/03/patriots_cap_sp.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Do they only take the top 51 paid players into account? If so, then we really have about another million more than Bedard says to play with, since any new signings would kick a minimum contract off the bottom. Would that be enough to get both Vollmer and Edelman?

Son Of A Vidic

CJC86 wrote: »

Do they only take the top 51 paid players into account?

Yes, in the offseason, only the top 51 players salaries are counted against the salary cap.

CJC86 wrote: »

Would that be enough to get both Vollmer and Edelman?

It depends on the level of potential interest out there. But I would be much more worried about losing Vollmer than I would Edelman. Looking at Beddard's calculations, it's pretty tight with what we have left to try and sort Vollmer, never mind Edelman.

Son Of A Vidic

Reading the Kraft interview I seen this photo yesterday and was wondering what was wrong with his face?



Now I just read this...

Patriots owner Robert Kraft disclosed Monday that he has a pre-cancerous stage of melanoma, as he had red marks on his nose, cheek and lip while speaking with reporters.

"You should see the other guy," he joked, before urging those around him to consider having their skin examined.

After having his face examined by a dermatologist, Kraft was given a medical cream to apply over the last few weeks. He will continue doing so through the end of the month.

"It was just small spots and you couldn't see them," he said. "Hopefully it makes it go away."

Yes, hopefully it will go away. And we don't want anything happening to our Robert, the best and most decent franchise owner in the NFL.

Gronkastic

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Yes, hopefully it will go away. And we don't want anything happening to our Robert, the best and most decent franchise owner in the NFL.

+1 to that brother.

eagle eye

This is a great site to keep tabs on the cap. Not just for the Patriots but for every team and its updated everyday.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap-hit/

Jolly Red Giant

TO. wrote: »

I don't believe for 1 second that any current or future player would ever think the Pats didn't offer Welker a fair deal.

But there is clear bitterness in the interview. Especially where he compares the 2 contracts. The part by saying Welker could only be in Denver for 1 year instead of the 2 as agreed in the contract. The same could be said for the Pats also. Who is to say Welker has a bad season with the Pats had he stayed and gets dumped after 1 season. There was absolutely no reason for Kraft to even come out and say any of it.

Have the Pats really become that concerned about what people and the media think about the club? Gone are the days were they didn't and just got on with it and stuck to the Patriots way. I for one was proud of the non caring attitude carried by the Pats and not lowering themselves to some media twat or classless agent. Not so much on that aspect anymore.

Whether you agree or not my opinion of it will stick with some sort of personal emotion going into his interview and some bitterness to boot. Even if he always intended to make a partially official statement to the press to give the Pats side of things.

I think it is very interesting that the Pats owner came out with this statement about Welker - clearly he felt under pressure to do so - the only implication from it is that Welker wanted out of NE and into Denver.

Denver has certainly upgraded the slot receiver position (much as I like Stokley he is 36) - NE ended up with Amendola, a player with a lot of potential, but potentially is also an injury waiting to happen. This time next year will tell who got the better end of the wheeling and dealing.

TO.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

I think it is very interesting that the Pats owner came out with this statement about Welker - clearly he felt under pressure to do so - the only implication from it is that Welker wanted out of NE and into Denver.

Are you kidding? You are now making out Welker didn't want to play for the Pats and it was easy for him to leave. Yeah ok. You keep believing that. Contract talks falling down is why Welker left in the end. His agent confirmed that today in a rebuttle to what Kraft said yesterday

Welker's Agent. Making it clear it was about a contract.

"We do, however, feel the need to clarify some of the confusion surrounding these negotiations. Specifically, both sides are clear that the Patriots made one offer to Wes Welker since the prior negotiations ended in July 2012. Both sides also agree that this two-year offer came just hours before the start of free agency despite discussions that began at the NFL Combine. Moreover, this lone offer was presented as a "take it or leave it offer." When we asked if there was room for structural changes, we were told no. We made a counter-offer for the same term and same maximum dollar amount as their offer and it was rejected. We inquired if any of the offer's components were negotiable and were told no. This refusal to actually negotiate made it easy to reject the Patriots offer. Nevertheless, when we received the Denver Broncos' offer, Wes personally talked to Mr. Kraft to give the Patriots the opportunity to match it. The Patriots rejected this opportunity and Wes signed with the Denver Broncos.

The rest of it is here:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000151816/article/wes-welkers-representatives-respond-to-robert-kraft

Denver has certainly upgraded the slot receiver position (much as I like Stokley he is 36) - NE ended up with Amendola, a player with a lot of potential, but potentially is also an injury waiting to happen. This time next year will tell who got the better end of the wheeling and dealing.

Time will tell.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

I have no interest in going near the NE thread -

But I am just going to leave this here also. Seems you only come in to this thread with negativity twice now.

Syferus

Honestly feels like the Patriots skipped a beat here, the two sides were, what, a couple million or so apart and to risk such a high level of chemistry and proven production for that seems the wrong approach to take.

Amendola could very well work out, hell, Welker could easily win the ring he missed out on by inches so many times in Denver, but it feels like a risk that NE really didn't need to take.

TO.

I will remember that the next time I want to spread sh1te about the Broncos. I don't ever do it in the team specific threads as it is all about showing respect to each of those threads. But just for you I will come into the Broncos thread every now and again to tell you that you are wrong and tell you how good or bad they are spread some nonsense about them.

As for that article it all it proves is that you believe everything you read and Borges at times writes pretty poor articles just for the sake of saying something. But hey god man you keep being wrong and writing nonsense and contradicting yourself all over the place.

frostie500

Right guys I've deleted JRC's post and sent him a PM regarding it. This kind of thing has been getting more and more prevalent within the AF forum and we have to bring an end to it. We all like a bit of banter but there's a line that has to be drawn so if you see this in any of the forums and feel that it is going too far report the post and I'll take the neccessary actions.

We got things, broadly speaking, in line over the course of last season but this kind of trolling has been happening more and more in the offseason threads and it has to stop

TO.

Marquice Cole and Niko Koutouvides re-signed

Son Of A Vidic

With the NFL annual meeting ending today, I'd imagine Robert and Bill will be back in Gillette tommorrw. So hopefully we should see some movement on Vollmer & Co in the coming days.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

Marquice Cole and Niko Koutouvides re-signed

I can't forget the way Cole was dismanted by Boldin in the AFC championships game. Just another player who doesn't inspire my confidence.

JaMarcus Hustle

I would hope hes signed purely for his special teams play. As Corv said, he was abysmal vs Boldin.

CJC86

I find it somewhat interesting that at the same time that the NFL gets rid of the Tuck Rule, which obviously helped the Patriots massively, they also introduced a rule that we could have done with last year. The Bernard Pollard hit on Stevan Ridley in the AFC Championship game still makes me sick watching it, and I think it was because of such hits that the NFL felt they had to stop defenders leading with the head entirely. I think with all the talk of the new rule, people are overlooking that it is actually being brought in to stop defenders hitting like that; they just have to be fair and stop RBs actively "hitting" with the helmet too.

Son Of A Vidic

JaMarcus Hustle wrote: »

I would hope hes signed purely for his special teams play. As Corv said, he was abysmal vs Boldin.

I hope so too. Special teams is fine, but dear God keep we don't want him out in the secondary.

taidghbaby

CJC86 wrote: »

I find it somewhat interesting that at the same time that the NFL gets rid of the Tuck Rule, which obviously helped the Patriots massively, they also introduced a rule that we could have done with last year. The Bernard Pollard hit on Stevan Ridley in the AFC Championship game still makes me sick watching it, and I think it was because of such hits that the NFL felt they had to stop defenders leading with the head entirely. I think with all the talk of the new rule, people are overlooking that it is actually being brought in to stop defenders hitting like that; they just have to be fair and stop RBs actively "hitting" with the helmet too.

That Pollard hit wouldn't be a flag under the new rule!

CJC86

taidghbaby wrote: »

That Pollard hit wouldn't be a flag under the new rule!

Well, I respectfully disagree. The key part to the rule is that you can't lead with the crown of the helmet, and that's exactly what Pollard did (and always does, because he's a filthy head-hunter). The thing that all the RBs are getting up in arms about is that you have to be able to make yourself small/protect yourself (which funnily enough is what Ridley was doing).

So, the fact that it ended up head-to-head is Ridley's fault, but it's also kind of irrelevant to the new rule, because Pollard will no longer be allowed to tackle with the crown of his helmet anymore.

taidghbaby

CJC86 wrote: »

Well, I respectfully disagree. The key part to the rule is that you can't lead with the crown of the helmet, and that's exactly what Pollard did (and always does, because he's a filthy head-hunter). The thing that all the RBs are getting up in arms about is that you have to be able to make yourself small/protect yourself (which funnily enough is what Ridley was doing).

So, the fact that it ended up head-to-head is Ridley's fault, but it's also kind of irrelevant to the new rule, because Pollard will no longer be allowed to tackle with the crown of his helmet anymore.

You can respectfully disagree all you want but I'm just repeating what the VP of officiating said on Total Access last night!

(I do see your point though!)