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New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    TO. wrote: »
    Chuck Fairbanks died today due to cancer. Chuck was Pats HC from 73-78 RIP Chuck.

    Screenshot2011-12-21at9.33.14PM_display_image.png?1324521291

    He didn't have the best of exits from the Pats, but the Sullivan family played a big part in that. Anyway, it's not important now. RIP Chuck.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    This is a great read, highly recommended.

    DSC_0001001Steve-Nelson-radio-studio.jpg

    Steve Nelson (left) shared some of his views on the late Chuck Fairbanks in an interview from 2010.

    Chuck Fairbanks, the coach who turned around the New England Patriots franchise in the mid-1970s lost his battle with brain cancer on Tuesday, He was 79.

    Fairbanks came to the Patriots in 1973 from the college ranks at Oklahoma where he ran a Wishbone offense and the patented Bud Wilkinson 3-4 defense and installed a little bit of both on a moribund Patriots franchise that was floundering in the late 60s and early 70s.

    He completely revamped the way the Patriots scouted for the NFL Draft and even rated personnel. After the team traded away virtually the entire draft in 1972, Fairbanks’ Patriots first draft in 1973 immediately produced dividends, his first three picks that year were HOFer John Hannah, Sam Cunningham and Darryl Stingley, he later added ‘Sugar Bear’ Ray Hamilton.

    Drafting Their Way To SuccessIn 1974 he added team HOFer Steve Nelson, Andy Johnson and Sam Hunt. Russ Francis, Steve Grogan, were added in 1975, Mike Haynes, Pete Brock and Tim Fox came on board in 1976. And Raymond Clayborn, Stanley Morgan,Horace Ivory, and Don Hasselback were added in 1977. All would play key roles for the team during the period while Fairbanks coached the Patriots.

    Like Bill Belichick after him, Fairbanks inherited a team in disarray. Steve Nelson arrived as a rookie in 1974 having never even been to New England prior to being drafted. In an interview he did with me a few years ago, he spoke about that time.“It was a much different game and era back then” Nelson said. “Training camp would start at the end of June; we had six pre-season games back then”.  He added, “Chuck Fairbanks really wanted to see who wanted to play football, and our season wouldn’t even begin until mid-September”.

    Speaking further Nelson said, “Fairbanks was a no-nonsense kind of coach, brilliant always seemed to be ahead of the game. He had a great deal of confidence in his assistant coaches and gave them a great deal of responsibility.”

    In 1973, still getting rid of the dead weight from previous regimes, the Patriots went 5-9 but changes were coming.

    Fairbanks Turns the TideIn 1974, taking advantage of a league-wide players’ strike during training camp and preseason, Fairbanks and then defensive coordinator Hank Bullough installed an innovative new system, known today as the Fairbanks-Bullough 3–4, or the 3–4 two-gap system.

    The Patriots under Bill Belichick still used the Fairbanks 3-4 two gap system until the 2011 season. I told Nelson I had read somewhere that Bill Belichick had spoken about Fairbanks in 2009 and had said that the Patriots terminology for the 3-4 Defense they run then was virtually the same as he had run 35 years ago and that Fairbanks could come in today and make all the defensive calls with little difficulty. “I didn’t know that” he said “but it wouldn’t surprise me.”

    The 1974 Patriots raced out to a 6–1 start culminated with a last minute win over the Vikings and Fran Tarkenton before injuries derailed the season and the team finished at 7-7. The following year 1975, was even worse, injury wise and the Patriots limped to lowly 3-11. But the pieces that were being put in place were soon to produce dividends.

    The Patriots of 1976 were arguably the best team the organization produced until the Belichick Super Bowl teams of the early 2000s. In consecutive weeks, they beat the Steelers in Pittsburgh and then annihilated the Raiders 48-17 in Foxboro enroute to an 11-3 finish.

    A trip to Oakland ensued in the playoffs and the Patriots were ahead 21-10 in the fourth quarter. But a mugging on a key third down that went uncalled on Russ Francis stalled a drive and then the now infamous phantom roughing the passer penalty on Ray Hamilton called by Ben Dreith, an admitted Raiders fan set the Silver and Black up for a go ahead touchdown with less than a minute remaining.

    The Raiders would then travel to Pittsburgh and defeated a beat-up Steelers’ team enroute to the Super Bowl win over Minnesota. The loss still stings for Patriots of that generation. “Well, Francis got mugged by Villapiano” Nelson said. “But there was more, and once they got the ball back, we all had a feeling that the refs were going to make sure we didn’t win, but they (Raiders) were, a really great team”.

    Nelson added, “If you remember, the rules back then, you were able to hit the QB a lot more than you are allowed to today. “That wouldn’t have been roughing the QB today, never mind back then.”

    Forced Out in 1978

    The Patriots under Fairbanks remained one of the league’s better teams and in 1978 again rolled to a 11-3 record while setting the league record for rushing yards as a team (3165) that remains the best ever. But the Sullivan family, according to John Hannah undercut Fairbanks forcing him to go against contracts he approved of.

    This led to his being fired prior to the playoff game against the Houston Oilers and the team not surprisingly was handed its lunch in the Patriots home playoff game 31-14. Fairbanks went on to coach at Colorado and never again coached in the NFL.

    But coaches like Belichick and Bill Parcells recognized what a great eye for talent he still had and would still come calling. “Chuck Fairbanks was one of the best talent evaluators ever” Nelson said. “He knew what would work and always could pick out great players to fit the team”.

    “Bill Parcells would bring him in to training camps in Dallas to give his opinion on players” Nelson added. “He is still a great talent evaluator.”

    “Our practices were always physical and intense under Fairbanks” Nelson said. “We used to practice at field in Foxboro near the Wrentham line and we would have to get dressed in our uniforms and drive our own cars over to the practice field.” He laughed and pointed over at the Patriots modern facility in the background, “its just a little different now”.

    The game may have changed over the years, but Fairbanks’ influence on it did not. The Patriots won three Super Bowls using the  Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 two gap defense. And they nearly one another in 2007 utilizing the same, his legacy is one of unrequited success in New England. But to those who saw the franchise rebound from a laughing stock to one of the league’s powers at the time, you have to shake your head and wonder for all the things that could have been…. Another owner, another time and the franchise may have been much different.

    “I loved playing for Fairbanks” Nelson said.

    http://www.readability.com/m?url=http://patspub.patsfans.com/2013/04/02/chuck-fairbanks-pats-coach-innovator-dies-at-79/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 90 ✭✭Gronkastic


    He turned the Pats into a serious football outfit during his time as HC, but the manner of his exit really let him down. This is the same Fairbanks who admitted to recruiting for the Buffaloes while he was still the Patriots HC. The Patriots were suing him for breach of contract and it was only resolved when a bunch of wealthy Colorado supporters bought out his contract. Sorting out and planning his college roster, while still the Pats HC was shocking disloyalty imo. But then he did leave the Sooners in similar controversey when he joined the Pats.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭TO.


    Gronkastic wrote: »
    He turned the Pats into a serious football outfit during his time as HC, but the manner of his exit really let him down. This is the same Fairbanks who admitted to recruiting for the Buffaloes while he was still the Patriots HC. The Patriots were suing him for breach of contract and it was only resolved when a bunch of wealthy Colorado supporters bought out his contract. Sorting out and planning his college roster, while still the Pats HC was shocking disloyalty imo. But then he did leave the Sooners in similar controversey when he joined the Pats.

    Many don't blame what he did. I wouldn't read too much into what wikipedia has to say about it. The Sullivans were not the rosiest of owners either. The mess with players contracts and how the Sullivans undermined him plays a lot into why he did what he did. Have talked Patriots with many old school fans and very few see Fairbanks reputation ruined by how he left the Patriots. All agree he left with a fair few bad marks in his book but what he did for the Pats outweighs the negative stuff.

    Don't forget Bill owes a lot to Fairbanks defensive system and how Fairbanks recruited. He models some of the things he does today and has done over the last 12 years on how Fairbanks ran things.

    I forgot to add into the bit above. The NCAA recruiting scandal with OSU is nothing new. Recruiting has always been shady in the NCAA just as much then as it is now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Bill Sullivans son Chuck was a complete príck and it was him rather than Bill that started to sour Fairbanks relationship with the franchise. Chuck controlled the purse strings and pretty much humiliated Fairbaks, forcing him to renege on severa crucial contracts. Chuck Sullivan was letting Fairbanks know who was the boss and by doing so, he drove him to return to college football. The only minor crititisim I would have of Fairbanks, was his decision to announce his return to college football when the Pats were possibly on a Superbowl run. But it certainly doesn't affect his legacy with me in the slightest. That era of Sullivan control, just serves reminds me of how glad I am that we now have the Kraft family.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    :D Brady and Amendola seen working out together in California....

    6nJzbh.jpg


    Great to see.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,546 ✭✭✭Masked Man


    The guy that took that photo is Tee Martin. QB picked #163 in 2000.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    Not just Amendola either!

    17856131.png


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭TO.


    Seems Matt Cassel was working out with TO and Brady also.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    Eagles, Lions, Bucs and Giants in preseason.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    I wouldn't be surprised if we spend a couple of days working with the Eagles. Thought we might have missed the Bucs this year, since we are playing them in the regular season. Then again Bill and Schiano are good buddies and last years joint seissions went down very well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 90 ✭✭Gronkastic


    Ya, surprised that we are playing the Bucs alright considering that we are playing them during the regular season. Finishing with the Giants is nearly an annual even now, but it really does suit both teams nicely.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭TO.


    Gronkastic wrote: »
    Ya, surprised that we are playing the Bucs alright considering that we are playing them during the regular season. Finishing with the Giants is nearly an annual even now, but it really does suit both teams nicely.

    Seems Bill is quite happy to arrange play dates with those coaches he knows best and has a good working relationship with. All 4 coaches in the pre-season are among Bill's circle of friends.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    True and I think the only change on last seasons schedule is the Lions stepping in for the Saints.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,546 ✭✭✭Masked Man


    I wouldn't say he's struggling to recover. Seems like the recovery is on track but if the infection is still there it'll be a set back. I wouldn't start worrying until it's actually confirmed he still has an infection.

    tbh that article could have been written when he started the antibiotics: Gronk has an infection, will get treatment for it and if it's not healed in six weeks time he'll need another operation. Guess it's more sensationalist to write it now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭TO.


    Masked Man wrote: »
    I wouldn't say he's struggling to recover. Seems like the recovery is on track but if the infection is still there it'll be a set back. I wouldn't start worrying until it's actually confirmed he still has an infection.

    tbh that article could have been written when he started the antibiotics: Gronk has an infection, will get treatment for it and if it's not healed in six weeks time he'll need another operation. Guess it's more sensationalist to write it now.

    The plate in his arm has to be replaced but they can't due to the infection. It is starting to get confirmed by all the regular sources at the moment. Now having said that the regular sources don't always get it right when it comes to the Pats but the mass suggestion is he needs more surgery to replace said plate.

    Disclaimer: Ron Borges is still a muppet and I can't stand his muppetry and when I saw the article a few hours ago I rolled my eyes at it but now its circulating even more it could be true.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭TO.


    Just saw this is some of the articles also so it most likely is Borges being his usual sensationalist self.
    If the medical staff finds traces of infection, they’ll have to wait until it clears up before putting in a new plate. This would likely mean Gronk would miss the early portion of the 2013 season, which kicks off in September.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    I'll admit to not knowing who Ron Borges is so took it at face value


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭TO.


    HigginsJ wrote: »
    I'll admit to not knowing who Ron Borges is so took it at face value

    Borges is a hack and tends to be a sensationalist. He is probably one of the worst Pats beat writers and he works for the Boston Herald. His stuff is generally re-hashed dribble.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Boring medical matters is my business and while I like to keep away from health forums on this site, it's a different matter when it comes to my beloved Pats. So if the Gronk situation turns out as reported and he needs surgery. Then he should only miss a couple of games at the start of the season.

    But if the persistent infection turns out to be true, then it raises two questions for me. First, Gronk is young man in his physical prime right now. So with proper antibiotic cover, he should have been able to make an uneventful recovery from his third surgery. So I find it slightly worrying that he allegedly hasn't. Secondly and the most worrying question for me, is the quality of the workmanship here. If the third surgery was carried out to remove/clean up a localised infection. Then why has this not succeeded?

    I can't remember where I read it, but I read that a different surgeon/team carried out the some of these surgeries. Now in my opinion that is pretty poor form. Our number one target for Brady and a potential future TE HOF, should really not be getting such disjointed care imo. Continuity of care is the gold standard in any first class patient care package. So when this breaks down and changes occur, problems envitably follow.

    No matter how skilled subsequent surgeons maybe, you never change horses while crossing the stream. Practices and techniques differ and Gronk's arm is really one expensive piece of real estate where this should not be happening. Also, the orthopaedic repair techniques involved here should be standard practice for any competent surgeon. Which makes it all the more baffling for me.

    So assuming reports have an element of truth. Then tweaking his antibiotic cover might be all that's needed to sort out any lingering infection. Drug resistance and a lack of sensitivity could also be at the heart of any lingering infection here. I probably could go on speculating here so I'll leave it at that. Hopefully all this is nothing more than some silly hype and a layperson coming to a simple misunderstanding with a misplaced assumption. Because I'll be seriously píssed if it isn't.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    Yeah, but Corv, I assume your experience is with humans. Gronk is a manbeast, so there really was no precedent here :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    ..Gronk is a manbeast..

    :D ROFL

    All I want for Christmas is a fully fit Gronk hitting his peak going into the playoffs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    I was just thinking that if Gronk does miss some of the early season, the Jake Ballard signing is really beginning to look like a masterstroke.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    Tommy Kelly signs on a 2 year deal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    Tommy Kelly signs on a 2 year deal.

    How much ye paying him.

    He really let the Raiders down badly. He seemed to quit on them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Tommy Kelly signs on a 2 year deal.

    Coming of a non-season this worries.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭heyjude


    HigginsJ wrote: »
    How much ye paying him.

    He really let the Raiders down badly. He seemed to quit on them.

    He also gave away more than his fair share of stupid penalties.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    heyjude wrote: »
    He also gave away more than his fair share of stupid penalties.

    I would say Armstead has more of a chance of making the roster than Kelly. Be surprised if he made the 53.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,954 ✭✭✭counterlock


    I would say Armstead has more of a chance of making the roster than Kelly. Be surprised if he made the 53.

    Decent player but his attitude stinks. If he was able to sort himself out he would be usable


This discussion has been closed.
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