New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

eagle eye

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Now we know why EE hasn't been posting much in thread lately, the fecking man's obviously exhausted.










* Flees thread *

Hazys

More analysis from Mike Reiss on the Pats trading down. It looked like tons of teams want to trade down out of the first...the Pats or Bills got the best value by far:

Raiders from 3 to 12. To move down nine spots, the Raiders picked up a second-round pick (42nd).

Bills from 8 to 16. To move down eight spots, the Bills picked up a second-round pick (46th), third-round pick (78th) and seventh-round pick (222).

Cowboys from 18 to 31. To move down 13 spots, the Cowboys picked up a third-round pick (74th).

Rams from 22 to 30. To move down eight spots, the Rams picked up a third-round pick (92nd) and sixth-round pick (198th).

Patriots from 29 to 52. To move down 23 spots, the Patriots picked up a second-round pick (52nd), third-round pick (83rd), fourth-round pick (102nd) and seventh-round pick (229th).

resdubwhite

pats pick an LB that can drop into coverage with their first pick.

I'll say nothing..........................
Dobson looks like a good pick. wonder what would be considered a good year from him. I'm hoping 40 catches for about 500 with 4 TD's. that would be excellent return from him.

TO.

resdubwhite wrote: »

pats pick an LB that can drop into coverage with their first pick.

I'll say nothing..........................

Yawn. Im guessing you are attempting an I told you so moment. He has good agility and excellent athletic ability but to say he was drafted for his coverage skills to prove your point is ridiculous. No one knows what Bill will do with him. As Collins was originally a QB turned Safety, there is a chance he is used in those nickel and dime sets we talked about that you ignored, but as it stand he is and has been for the last couple of years an athletic pass rushing OLB/DE.

resdubwhite

Who's primary position is at LB.

No point in arguing the toss with you. The pick speaks for itself.

TO.

resdubwhite wrote: »

Who's primary position is at LB.

No point in arguing the toss with you. The pick speaks for itself.

His primary position is Outside Linebacker. Had you any clue about the game you would see he was used as a rushing end in a 3-4 system and as an end in a 4-3. He was used the odd time a coverage linebacker. He can play there and has the athleticism to do so but this pick proves nothing of our needs of a linebacker who can cover.

And as I said before when the Pats use Coverage packages they use nickel and dime packages, there is a chance he will be used there also. The Patriots picked an athletic guy who is a pass rusher first and has athletic ability and can be Versatile. Our pass coverage across the middle is not the issue you make it out to be. And this most certainly doesn't prove your point. But the fact you seem uninterested in talking about the X and O's of the game and trying to be a smart ass about it this conversation is pointless.

resdubwhite

You want to use your interpretation of the x and o's and refuse to look at past evidence renders any argument with you pointless.

And you continue to throw around the insults with it.

Pats picked an OLB.

We'll see if they use him on the edge. or if they bring him into 3rd down situations. Chances are they'll do a bit of both.
Your willingness to get involved in little piss fits just because people don't hang on your every word I find highly entertaining. Keep up the good work.

TO.

resdubwhite wrote: »

You want to use your interpretation of the x and o's and refuse to look at past evidence renders any argument with you pointless.

Says the man who showed any lack to debate the finer points of the defense in the past. And I my interpretation? made me laugh. I am pretty sure I know the X and O's of the game a lot better than you do. You wont even enter into to the debate but rip my knowledge of it. Hey well done you.

And you continue to throw around the insults with it.

You are welcome.

Pats picked an OLB.

No sh1t sherlock but it seems you have a distinct lack of understanding of the different positions OLB play when played in various systems. But hey good man.

We'll see if they use him on the edge. or if they bring him into 3rd down situations. Chances are they'll do a bit of both.
Your willingness to get involved in little piss fits just because people don't hang on your every word I find highly entertaining. Keep up the good work.

We probably will. I never said we wouldn't but the fact of the matter is, none of it proves the point you made about the Patriots being week with Pass coverage where our Linebackers are concerned and where you said it was a an issue. As many told you it wasn't and tried discussing with you the finer points but your inability to discuss it let you down. But hey keep on trucking.

JaMarcus Hustle

Yeah I'm sure we picked Collins for his coverage skills. I bet those 20 tackles for loss and 10 sacks despite being the focus of the O-line last year weren't even considered. He also played defensive end more than LB last year, for what it's worth.

resdubwhite

"Q: Do you see Jamie Collins playing on the line of scrimmage or off?

BB: He's done both. He was basically a defensive end last year. His sophomore year he was more of an off the line ‘backer. His freshman year he was a safety and his junior year he was a 34 outside linebacker where he was on the line but he was in coverage, whereas this past year, he wasn't in coverage very often. He has a lot of versatility. We'll see how it goes.
"My thoughtsI would think at 250 its going to be a while before he develops into a DE in todays nfl, yes people like dumerville do it bt I'd expect him to grow into that roll. He's got ability. That's for sure.

TO.

resdubwhite wrote: »

Q: Do you see Jamie Collins playing on the line of scrimmage or off?

BB: He's done both. He was basically a defensive end last year. His sophomore year he was more of an off the line ‘backer. His freshman year he was a safety and his junior year he was a 34 outside linebacker where he was on the line but he was in coverage, whereas this past year, he wasn't in coverage very often. He has a lot of versatility. We'll see how it goes.

You seem to be missing the point of all of this. 2 things:

1. You told us our pass coverage across the middle due to our linebackers was poor and one of our main needs. We told you it wasn't and told you why and tried discussing the technical side to which you seem uninterested in debating.

2. All of the above including BB answers doesn't prove what you have been banging on about.

I already told you Collins could be used in coverage at some point but most likely in nickel and dime sets if he ever does. He might see the odd snap off the edge in a Cover 3 situation but the Pats use nickel and dime sets more often to defend the pass. But and this is a huge but none of this proves there is an issue with our pass coverage across the middle. The drafting of Collins doesn't even prove this and Bill's answer gives you no clearer answer.

Also your inability to understand what the full role of an OLB can be doesn't help your cause either and it was already pointed out Collins was used more in his Junior and Senior year as a Rushing OLB or End and Bill points this out in the very last 2 lines in bold. The fact you keep telling me he is an OLB with elaborating it sums your knowledge up. Even the Bill B piece you quoted contradicts you. Good man.

resdubwhite

I never said pass coverage at LB was our main defensive need.

for the second time. you're putting words in my mouth.

TO.

resdubwhite wrote: »

I never said pass coverage at LB was our main defensive need.

for the second time. you're putting words in my mouth.

My apologies a need not a main need. I guess I read main need from this. But if wrong I apologise.

And they desperately need a coverage LB (I'm hoping Wilson becomes that player)

But having said that it is not a need at all as many pointed out to including myself.

resdubwhite

I disagree with your assertion that its not a need.

Collins is a welcome addition.

how he is used in the team this year will more than likely settle this argument.

TO.

resdubwhite wrote: »

I disagree with your assertion that its not a need.

And that is your opinion and we will have to agree to disagree at this point.

Collins is a welcome addition.

If he works out I agree. Some other concerns about him will have to be answered first. Hopefully he comes up trumps in camp.

how he is used in the team this year will more than likely settle this argument.

Settle the argument how? Are you saying he will answer the question of us desperately needing a coverage linebacker? I doubt we will get that answer this season but time will tell.

resdubwhite

as for tonight.
Barrett Jones from Bama still on the board. I would be very happy if he was selected with the early fourth rd. pick.

Would also be happy if they went WR again.

Son Of A Vidic

Collins is just what we need, a very athletic player that can make life difficult for the QB. Has very good versatility, even playing at DE at times. While undersized to play as a full time DE, his speed and quickness has tormented bigger, slower rivals when he has. He should also offer better pass coverage protection than our current line. Which is a nice plus, considering we’re pretty good at stuffing the run already. So having a guy like Collins is a nice addition.

Again. I’m loving landing Dobson. He brings a physicality and size that our current WR Corp doesn’t have. He has excellent hands and didn’t drop one ball last season. He also made one of the greatest catches I have ever seen on a football field. He has also shown a penchant for making difficult catches in college. So it’s nice to see Brady getting a big physical target for once. And he comes from the same school as Brown and Moss, so I’ll be happy if he can follow in their footsteps.

Logan Ryan is a good instinctive kid who could bring plenty of playmaking potential. Again another kid with very good athleticism and quickness and he has shown an ability to make plays all over the field. Very good with his hands and seems to excel in hand fighting his opponents. A very strong tackler and he’s very good against the run. He hasn’t missed a game in the last two seasons. I also just seen a stat that no player in college football, has broken up more passes over the last two seasons than he has. Just what our secondary needs right now.

Didn’t know anything about Duron Harmon before we drafted him. I think he was a defensive team captain in Rutgers and he was also selected to the First Team All-Big East Conference. Most interesting of all, he’s a teammate of Ryan’s and both come from former HC Greg Schiano’s tough, professional regime out of Rutgers. And Greg’s good mate Bill, likes kids coming from these tough backgrounds, because they’ll give 110% for him. Safety has good depth, but Wilson won’t be around forever and Gregory has disappointed so the move makes sense.

Overall these kids are reported to have very good characters, good footballing brains and are enthusiastic students of the game. Just what the Patriots like in their players. So I’m happy enough with the draft so far.

TO.

resdubwhite wrote: »

as for tonight.
Barrett Jones from Bama still on the board. I would be very happy if he was selected with the early fourth rd. pick.

If we can't get Jones I'd like to see Reid Fragel also him or Jones will definitely bulk up and give us depth on the inside of the Oline of ours.

I also wouldn't mind getting Khaled Holmes later on to give us more depth at Centre.

Would also be happy if they went WR again.

Agreed plenty of nice picks out there to be had at WR. Couple of gems in there. Patton, Hamilton or Boyce would be good fits. I wouldn't mind also seeing Dennard Robinson getting snapped up. Although a QB at Michigan all reports show he has good hands and is athletic ability could be of good use to the Pats and Tom Brady.

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Again. I’m loving landing Dobson. He brings a physicality and size that our current WR Corp doesn’t have. He has excellent hands and didn’t drop one ball last season. He also made one of the greatest catches I have ever seen on a football field. He has also shown a penchant for making difficult catches in college. So it’s nice to see Brady getting a big physical target for once. And he comes from the same school as Brown and Moss, so I’ll be happy if he can follow in their footsteps.

I hope to see Dobson gel in camp straight away. I have a feeling Dobson is the kind of WR we need. If he can pick up the system and Patriot way quickly and Brady finds a liking for him right away I think we could have found a solid pick in Dobson. He has the kind of work ethic we need.

Logan Ryan is a good instinctive kid who could bring plenty of playmaking potential. Again another kid with very good athleticism and quickness and he has shown an ability to make plays all over the field. Very good with his hands and seems to excel in hand fighting his opponents. A very strong tackler and he’s very good against the run. He hasn’t missed a game in the last two seasons. I also just seen a stat that no player in college football, has broken up more passes over the last two seasons than he has. Just what our secondary needs right now.

I saw a fair bit of Rutgers last season for some reason and I like Ryan. He is sharp and has very good short quickness. He is not the type of kid that will make up long distances to get the ball or keep pace with the fastest WR but he offers that short fast agility to jump the ball and man. I can see him starting off in nickel and dime sets as a slot corner and backing up the outside guys. But I am hoping he finds his feet in the pros and becomes more dependable that the ****e we have had.

Didn’t know anything about Duron Harmon before we drafted him. I think he was a defensive team captain in Rutgers and he was also selected to the First Team All-Big East Conference. Most interesting of all, he’s a teammate of Ryan’s and both come from former HC Greg Schiano’s tough, professional regime out of Rutgers. And Greg’s good mate Bill, likes kids coming from these tough backgrounds, because they’ll give 110% for him. Safety has good depth, but Wilson won’t be around forever and Gregory has disappointed so the move makes sense.

I was surprised we took Harmon so early on or in the draft at all. Thought he would pop up as a UDFA at some point Very little scout work out there on him pre draft. But it shows Bill likes to put faith in certain coaches programs and go for these players who could make impact. I do think Harmon will battle for the SS spot at some point and will most likely have to prove himself in special teams to begin with. Solid safety for Rutgers but its going to be one of these things we wait and see.

Overall these kids are reported to have very good characters, good footballing brains and are enthusiastic students of the game. Just what the Patriots like in their players. So I’m happy enough with the draft so far.

Agreed.

TO.

Flicking through the list and saw this guy Tyrone Goard. 6'7 he is what a perfect sideline and Endzone WR he would make. From Eastern Kentucky an FCS school but I wouldn't mind a 7th round pick blown on him to see if he make the step up and get worked on. Throw a bit of weight on him and hone in his skills and he could be the perfect WR to lob balls up there to. His long arm and long strides make him perfect against smaller corners.

Some vid on him.

http://www.patriots.com/media-center/videos/2013-Draft-Prospects---Tyrone-Goard-WR/482fa11b-ec2b-4b73-a8eb-e05fa626b38f

Son Of A Vidic

Like you guys, I would also be happy if they went WR again. That guy TO looks pretty interesting alright, long, rangy looking player. Would be an interesting developmental prospect and a nice target for Brady.

TO.

Happy we got Boyce as I said earlier thought he would be a good fit for us.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

Happy we got Boyce as I said earlier thought he would be a good fit for us.

Yes you did, well called TO. Looks like we all got our wish.

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Yes you did, well called TO. Looks like we all got our wish.

Really looking forward to see how Dobson and Boyce workout now. Things are going well this draft I have to say. Reasonably happy.

TO.

When did the Pats trade out of all our next picks? Next one isnt until the 7th round.

frostie500

TO. wrote: »

When did the Pats trade out of all our next picks? Next one isnt until the 7th round.

Yeah its crazy when you compare to so many recent drafts where you's had a host of picks in the mid to late rounds but I like the choices so far (especially at WR) and I actually like the Harmon pick. I watched a couple of Rutgers games over the last two years and he was a solid player in coverage. Not superb but solid so with good coaching he could be a decent player to add to the depth chart

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

Really looking forward to see how Dobson and Boyce workout now. Things are going well this draft I have to say. Reasonably happy.

Dobson could be a big ball grabbing Bolden type WR and Boyce gets faster the further he goes down the field and will strecth defenses. So lots to be excited about.

Son Of A Vidic

Feck it, I'd be happy to bunch all our 7th rounders together and trade up for a 5th rounder.

resdubwhite

Would anyone take 3 7ths for a fifth. If they did I would hope they do it.
still some interesting players there.

Great to see another WR on the roster. You would have to think that Jenkins is now facing an uphill battle to stay on the roster.
Boyce does look like an RB but can most certainly move.
Wonder if Ebner or Cole will be around with the Ryan and Harmon picks.

Harmon is a complete left fielder, but given the Belichick relationship with Rutgers he will know what the kid can do.
Mayock said he had him low, but was extremely impressed with him on his pro day.
Jesse Williams still there. What gives?

resdubwhite

Rappaport reporting that NE listening to offers for Demps right now.