New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

Hazys

TO. wrote: »

Probably a 5 or 6 game ban. Who knows with old Rog.

The suspensions have been given out way more frequently and harshly since the Ray Lewis case. Stallworth was suspended for a year (and I think the whole case was so unlucky for Stallworth and I felt sorry for him) so a year is the minimum plus a huge fine if he's found guilty.

I don't know how long it will take for the trial to start or finish. It could be likely nothing happens this year and there is no reason to suspend Hernandez. That would be an awful situation for the Patriots, having a possible criminal (or worse murder) on your team this season, with all the bad press and you can't even do anything about it because he's innocent till proven guilty.

Even if he's found guilty of obstruction of justice and suspended a year and comes back to play next year with a massive "did he or didnt he" cloud over his head, the patriots can't just cut him as he's technically an innocent man. If it plays out like that, I don't want him on my team or cheer for him and certainly not make him a team hero and build a statue for him outside the stadium.

Then again we all need to came down a bit(me especially), he may be completely innocent...this trial by media hysteria is outrageous, we known very little actual facts at this stage.

TO.

Hazys wrote: »

The suspensions have been given out way more frequently and harshly since the Ray Lewis case. Stallworth was suspended for a year (and I think the whole case was so unlucky for Stallworth and I felt sorry for him) so a year is the minimum plus a huge fine if he's found guilty.

I don't know how long it will take for the trial to start or finish. It could be likely nothing happens this year and there is no reason to suspend Hernandez. That would be an awful situation for the Patriots, having a possible criminal (or worse murder) on your team this season, with all the bad press and you can't even do anything about it because he's innocent till proven guilty.

Even if he's found guilty of obstruction of justice and suspended a year and comes back to play next year with a massive "did he or didnt he" cloud over his head, the patriots can't just cut him as he's technically an innocent man. If it plays out like that, I don't want him on my team or cheer for him and certainly not make him a team hero and build a statue for him outside the stadium.

Then again we all need to came down a bit(me especially), he may be completely innocent...this trial by media hysteria is outrageous, we known very little actual facts at this stage.

Thing is though Stallworth actually killed someone. If Hernandez is only charged with obstruction and is pending trial the NFL have no grounds to give him a year ban. They will piss off the NFLPA if they even attempt it. Goodell has to be careful here but as always with the NFL the bans have been all over the place and inconsistent at best. I reckon Goodell with thread lightly with this whole thing. I can't see a ban of a year.

I am actually very calm about this. Even yesterday. Way I have been looking at it is a man died and someone killed him. Hernandez is involved to some extent. To what extent none of us know. The media have him hung by the rafters already but for me until an official charge is made and a court case happens we will only begin to scratch the surface of what went down.

If Hernandez pulled the trigger fook him and enjoy life in prison. If he was involved and didnt pull the trigger he deserves whatever he gets coming to him for being so stupid. Even if he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. We have all been told growing up stay away from trouble and if it arises walk away from it. Gang related or not Hernandez put himself in this trouble. Whatever happens, happens.

Son Of A Vidic

With all this business about Hernadez I can't forget about what he did last summer.

Upon agreeing to a five-year contract extension on Monday, Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez made a charitable gesture that owner Robert Kraft acknowledged in remarks Monday evening at the team's annual charitable foundation gala.

"One of the touching moments since I've owned the team -- knowing that this is our charitable gala tonight -- Aaron came into my office, a little teary-eyed, and presented me with a check for $50,000 to go to the Myra Kraft Giving Back Fund," Kraft said. "I said 'Aaron, you don't have to do this, you've already got your contract.' And he said 'No, it makes me feel good and I want to do it.'

"And I sensed that he was touched in doing that. We didn't request it, it's something that he decided. And to flip the switch from living modestly to all of a sudden having a lot of income, I think we have to work real hard to help our young men adjust to that."

"I just think he's a super player, and really a first-class guy," Kraft said. "Some people might see all the tattoos on him and think. ... Maybe 10 years ago I was in that class, (now) I think 'Wow, this guy's a good guy.' And we made a big commitment to him."

This is what Aaron said back in return......

"He changed my life. Now I'm able to basically have a good chance to be set for life, and have a good life," he said. "I have a daughter on the way, I have a family that I love. It's just knowing that they're going to be OK. Because I was happy playing for my two hundred fifty, four hundred thousand [dollar salary].

Knowing that my kids and my family will be able to have a good life, go to college, it's just an honor that he did that for me. He gave me this opportunity. The $50,000 to help his foundation, obviously, is basically like saying 'thank you' and its means a lot to me.

"He didn't need to give me the amount that he gave me, and knowing that he thinks I deserve that, he trusts me to make the right decisions, it means a lot. It means he trusts my character, and the person I am, which means a lot, cause my mother, that's how she wanted to raise me.

They have to trust you to give you that money. I just feel a lot of respect and I owe it back to him. Not only is it $50,000, cause that's not really, that's just the money that really doesn't mean much, with the amount given, it's more, I have a lot more to give back, and all I can do is play my heart out for them, make the right decisions, and live life as a Patriot."

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4728165/kraft

Personally I was proud to read about one of our young players making that lovely gesture to kraft. I always liked Aaron and I think he's a genuinly nice guy. I was reading some of the neighbours comments about him and they all seem to like him and the local kids love him. The problem here is his friends. Bad company has brought many a good man down.

My best mate did a year in jail in the early Nineties for mixing with a bad crowd. A bunch of guys we knew from school, took the wrong path in life. I was strong enough to give them the message and keep them on hello goodbye terms only. But my mate (nicest guy you could meet) hadn't the heart to tell them fúck off. Long story short - a night out - they cause trouble - my mate intervenes to save a 'friend'. Guess what? He gets sent to prison and they walk. Him being a first time offender and from a good decent family, did him no good of course in the Irish legal system. Thankfully my mate learned from being too soft, he's now an overpaid, good for nothing waste of space accountant.

We all naturally feel let down and even betrayed by what's happened these last few days. But I can't help but think maybe Aaron could have been in a similar situation. And in a much more dangerous situation, with scumbag friends who are probably armed to their teeth. I reckon Aaron is up there with most Pats fans as one of their favourite players. So I find it hard to believe his good guy image has been an act all along that fooled us all. But right most of all I pity Robert Kraft. He must be reeling with what's going on. Aaron owes him some answers and the truth, lets just hope he gets it.

Son Of A Vidic

Christ lads this is the worst offseason on many levels, that I can ever remember. We really need a Super Bowl win after all this to get us right again.

BKWDR

CJC86 wrote: »

I completely agree, total clown whatever his involvement. He was one of my favourite players before, but he has definitely gone down in my estimation over the last couple of days.

At the same time, this is a complete trial by media. I don't know what reports to believe, as his attorney has said that several of them are false. It could well be that this was a gang killing, where he fears for his life if he talks; or he and his friends could be complete scumbags.

It sounds like he deserves some jail time for obstruction of justice, but if he's not charged with anything else I'd have to assume he wasn't directly involved with the murder, innocent until proven guilty is a cornerstone of the legal system for a good reason.

Anyway, I feel like a complete twat for following this so closely just because it could have a significant effect on a sports team I follow. A man died, and that's the most important thing to remember.

Reading up on all the news reports over the past few days, some contradictory, i can't help but feel like banging my head against a wall. It's astonishing about after all the money / fame that he could still allow himself be involved in some part in this.

Just have to let it all play out and see what comes of it. But as usual in these instances, we discuss the outcome for the mega rich sports star and the fact that there's a dead person is nearly insignificant. If he had any involvement or hand in it, I would like to see him get a relevant appropriate sentence rather than worry about how the Pats will fair post play-offs.

TO.

BKWDR wrote: »

I would like to see him get a relevant appropriate sentence rather than worry about how the Pats will fair post play-offs.

As Pats fans most of us in here do hope that whatever his involvement he gets the appropriate punishment. But naturally as fans we will worry how this outcome affects the Pats season and playoffs if we make it and the near future. Comes naturally as a fan even in the midst of tragedy and controversy.

BKWDR

TO. wrote: »

As Pats fans most of us in here do hope that whatever his involvement he gets the appropriate punishment. But naturally as fans we will worry how this outcome affects the Pats season and playoffs if we make it and the near future. Comes naturally as a fan even in the midst of tragedy and controversy.

Nah i know, just maddening to see this. Young players with everything at their feet and they mess up so monumental.

TO.

BKWDR wrote: »

Nah i know, just maddening to see this. Young players with everything at their feet and they mess up so monumental.

Tebow for TE?

Lets see what camp brings.

Son Of A Vidic

BKWDR wrote: »

If he had any involvement or hand in it, I would like to see him get a relevant appropriate sentence rather than worry about how the Pats will fair post play-offs.

We all feel the same way, but this is a team thread after all and not a court of law. We all want justice for the victim here but we are dealing with extreme media hype and the fog of war. So until some cold hard facts emerge, we won't and don't know what happened. Aaron may have had a willing role, he may have had no role, or he may have acted under extreme duress and faced a potential threat to his own life. So in the abscence of hard facts, I gonna focus on my team and football.

BKWDR

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

We all feel the same way, but this is a team thread after all and not a court of law. We all want justice for the victim here but we are dealing with extreme media hype and the fog of war. So until some cold hard facts emerge, we won't and don't know what happened. Aaron may have had a willing role, he may have had no role, or he may have acted under extreme duress and faced a potential threat to his own life. So in the abscence of hard facts, I gonna focus on my team and football.

True, but you know yourself, in a lot of instances these things tend to go trial by media. Whichever way it goes, i hope its a swift outcome so it can be put to bed asap!

As some form of intro (after reading back a clatter of pages here), I'm a Pats fan with basic armchair knowledge with one season under my belt (i may have jinxed the 2012 season). Expect questions! ha

TO.

More proof the Media are getting it wrong. No arrest warrant was made for Hernandez today. Once again "sources" getting it wrong.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000213802/article/no-arrest-warrant-issued-in-odin-lloyd-homicide-investigation

A clerk in the Attleboro District Court told NFL.com's Ian Rapoport on Friday morning that no arrest warrants have been issued in the homicide investigation of Odin Lloyd.

There were reports Friday that a warrant had been filed for New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez for a charge of obstruction of justice.

The clerk told Rapoport her court is the only one with whom the Massachusetts State Police would file a warrant in connection to the homicide.

The request would arrive at the desk of the clerk magistrate, and if he allows it, the police would then arrest the person for whom the warrant is issued.

Lloyd's body was found at about 5:30 p.m. on Monday. An autopsy confirmed his death was a homicide, authorities said. Lloyd's family told The Associated Press that Lloyd had connections to Hernandez, although they would not elaborate. Lloyd was a semi-pro football player in the Boston area, having played for the Boston Bandits.

The Patriots and the NFL both indicated that they do not anticipate publicly commenting on the matter at this time.

Son Of A Vidic

BKWDR wrote: »

True, but you know yourself, in a lot of instances these things tend to go trial by media. Whichever way it goes, i hope its a swift outcome so it can be put to bed asap!

That's true, but I really fear that this will drag out.

BKWDR wrote: »

As some form of intro (after reading back a clatter of pages here), I'm a Pats fan with basic armchair knowledge with one season under my belt (i may have jinxed the 2012 season). Expect questions! ha

Welcome in and it's good to have new blood, so take a seat, put the feet up and make yourself at home. No such thing as a stupid question btw, so ask away. There's a good bunch of knowledgeable lads here so someone will always help you out.:D

Was listening to mike and mike and there legal analyst said if they can prove obstruction of justice you would usually be talking years of jail time as opposed to months

TO.

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

Was listening to mike and mike and there legal analyst said if they can prove obstruction of justice you would usually be talking years of jail time as opposed to months

Apparently anything up to 7 years. The kind of obstruction they have him on has a max sentence of 7 years as many outlets have reported. Thing is though he could be looking at years but he could also only be looking at a minimal sentence that is suspended and probation. There was a prosecution attorney on one of the news channels earlier and he said it is hard to know what the cops and DA are pushing for since no warrant has been issued. He said right now it could be anything at this point.

Either way the NFL are now apparently saying that they will ban Hernandez even if he is innocent.

Masked Man

Sources once again saying a warrant has been issued.

From a football pov the best scenario for him is that he gets offered some kinda deal to testify against the other two and the nfl ban him for the season. He'll probably get one of the biggest fine in NFL history as well. Obviously this is assuming he's somehow connected to everything.

TO.

Masked Man wrote: »

Sources once again saying a warrant has been issued.

From a football pov the best scenario for him is that he gets offered some kinda deal to testify against the other two and the nfl ban him for the season. He'll probably get one of the biggest fine in NFL history as well. Obviously this is assuming he's somehow connected to everything.

He should just do what Ray Lewis did..........

Masked Man

I almost called testifying against the other two "the Ray Lewis".

Son Of A Vidic

Masked Man wrote: »

Sources once again saying a warrant has been issued.

From a football pov the best scenario for him is that he gets offered some kinda deal to testify against the other two and the nfl ban him for the season. He'll probably get one of the biggest fine in NFL history as well. Obviously this is assuming he's somehow connected to everything.

No warrant issued yet, but speaking of NFL punishment. I would laugh if they did try and punish him more than they did Ray Lewis. Lewis admited obstruction of justice in what was a brutal murder. Then of course you had the controversy of his missing blood soaked suit. So I think the NFL would need to be pretty careful in how they treat Hernandez.

Regarding the obstruction of justice charge, I would imagine the cops will have a difficult time proving some of it, because it's circumstancial. How do you know evidence was detroyed on home CCTV when you don't even know what was on the CCTV? They're also speaking of cleaners cleaning the house on Monday. But how is this an issue when the cops said the victim was murdered at the spot where the body was found? Now if they suspected he was shot at the house that would be a different story. If reports of a broken cell phone are true? Then that wouldn't look good to a judge in court. I just really hope we get some clarification soon on all of this.

Amazingly reports are now suggesting that there was no "failure to perform/ failure to practice" clause put into the Hernandez contract and that should be a standard addition to any contract. So even if he's now suspended, fined or banned, the Pats will have to fork out his $1.32 million salary for 2013. That is an amazing oversight on behalf of the Pats, so whoever drew up the contract needs a kick in the nuts.

davyjose

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

No warrant issued yet, but speaking of NFL punishment. I would laugh if they did try and punish him more than they did Ray Lewis. Lewis admited obstruction of justice in what was a brutal murder. Then of course you had the controversy of his missing blood soaked suit. So I think the NFL would need to be pretty careful in how they treat Hernandez.

Different commissioner, different time. It's not going to be dealt with like the Lewis situation was.

Goose_Hyypia

davyjose wrote: »

Different commissioner, different time. It's not going to be dealt with like the Lewis situation was.

I know its a different sport/ country but look how Luis Suarez was treated differently to John Terry (racism) and Jermain Defoe (biting) and this was under the same chief exec of the PL.
I would be more inclined to believe that the NFL will try and throw the book at him especially given the ever increasing recent gun issues of NFL players i.e Jovan Belcher, Da’Quan Bowers.

eagle eye

Why don't we wait and see if there is even an arrest in this thing before we try and guess what Goodell will do. This might all be rubbish with the way things are going. The media got a story and ran with it, they have been following AH around for a couple of days now and still there is no arrest or anything.

The latest they have come out with is a paper warrant which is something that is used to try and scare a person into talking to the police. They are saying now that the police are preparing a warrant for obstruction of justice, they were wrong saying that a warrant was being prepared by the State Police so now they are saying Boston Police are doing it. The media have been looking foolish so far but they won't stop because an NFL player is big news and people are glued to their tv sets while its going on.

I just can't believe that I come on here and see lots of people who have him convicted already. I thought on an Irish forum that people would have a lot more cop on and wait to see if he is actually arrested.

If it turns out that Aaron is not arrested and has nothing to do with this then there has been a great injustice done to him but you'll find the media don't care nor those people who watched it all.

Masked Man

There's nothing wrong with discussing the possible outcomes if he's guilty, innocent or anything in between. It's also alright to try talk about the info that's come out about it so far, even if it's from unreliable sources.

eagle eye

Masked Man wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with discussing the possible outcomes if he's guilty, innocent or anything in between. It's also alright to try talk about the info that's come out about it so far, even if it's from unreliable sources.

Well if you want to talk about something you haven't a clue about I suppose its alright. I like that this thread is about football mainly but this stuff is just plain ridiculous because nobody knows anything about whats going on.

So making assumptions about what will happen to AHern should he be found guilty of x,y or z seems ludicrous to me. Its a news junkies type of thing not an AF fans thing imo.

You do realise that the outcome of this thing could be anywhere from a man being totally innocent to him going away for life? How on earth can you have a sensible conversation about what might happen?

Masked Man

You do realise that the outcome of this thing could be anywhere from a man being totally innocent to him going away for life? How on earth can you have a sensible conversation about what might happen?

You discuss what might happen if he's found innocent, what might happen if he's found guilty of obstruction justice, or of murder, or he pleads etc etc. It's also possible to discuss how likely some things are based on the info that's come out so far, with the obvious thing being that this info could be unreliable. The rest is just speculation, which there's nothing wrong with imo.

I guess I don't really see the discussion as pointless or stupid. Don't really think we shouldn't talk about it just because there's very little hard information out there, that doesn't stop us talking about other stuff.

Son Of A Vidic

davyjose wrote: »

Different commissioner, different time. It's not going to be dealt with like the Lewis situation was.

I am aware of that, but a precedent was set. But assuming things get worse for Aaron and he gets a harsher punishment from the NFL than Lewis got. Then the NLF will probably be opening a can of worms for themselves from Aaron's legal people.

Son Of A Vidic

Details on Dobsons contract have now emerged.

Length: 4 years
Signing bonus: $873,360
Total guarantee: $1.173 million

Base salaries:
2013 -- $405,000
2014 -- $560,835 ($300,000 guaranteed)
2015 -- $716,670
2016 -- $872,505

Salary cap charges:
2013 -- $623,340
2014 -- $779,175
2015 -- $935,010
2016 -- $1.09 million

Providing he isn't carrying an injury, we need to make extra efforts get him onto the field. Especially with all the offfield drama surrounding our TE's. But what has worried me so far is, they seem to be giving JAG Michael Jenkins a lot of the reps Dobson should have got. I really hope Dobson emerges during camp as a first team option. Because we really need it.

TO.

eagle eye wrote: »

I just can't believe that I come on here and see lots of people who have him convicted already. I thought on an Irish forum that people would have a lot more cop on and wait to see if he is actually arrested. .

Where are you getting this from? Everything from him being arrested to being innocent has been discussed by the main folk discussing it in hear. In fact there is nothing wrong with discussing hypothetical situations. I have to say I disagree with the censorship on this. Most of us are smart enough to know he hasn't been charged yet and might not even be charged. Still nothing wrong with discussing the what ifs as it is relevant to the Pats as an organization going forward.

Son Of A Vidic

A big year for Edelman. If he can finally show some durability, then he could cover a lot of Hernandez's routes in the slot role. But I'm not holding my breath over his durability though.

Syferus

You can't discuss Hernadez' availability for next season without referencing the situation he finds himself in personally, Frostie.

Reasoned discussion about a very big story in the NFL should be allowed here or in another thread so I think you really should reconsider your stance, you're defeating the purpose of this forum.

TO.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

A big year for Edelman. If he can finally show some durability, then he could cover a lot of Hernandez's routes in the slot role. But I'm not holding my breath over his durability though.

Its funny all the discussions we have had on our WR future I keep forgetting about Edelman If him and Amendola can get into gear from the get go our slots are covered. Im actually cautious and excited at the same time to see how Brady's options come together in camp.