New England Patriots thread (MOD WARNING - #4503)

Gronkastic

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

A big year for Edelman. If he can finally show some durability, then he could cover a lot of Hernandez's routes in the slot role. But I'm not holding my breath over his durability though.

So true and I think we all share you're skeptisicm about his durability. Would be nice for him to prove us wrong though.

Son Of A Vidic

TO. wrote: »

Its funny all the discussions we have had on our WR future I keep forgetting about Edelman If him and Amendola can get into gear from the get go our slots are covered. Im actually cautious and excited at the same time to see how Brady's options come together in camp.

We will be starting the season with bascially an entirely new passing attack - WR's and TE's. Crazy when you think about and the last thing Brady really needs at this point in his career. If he maintains the standards he normally does? Then he should be MVP for 2013. Of course they'll probably give MVP to my dog quicker than they'll give it to Brady.

frostie500

Syferus wrote: »

You can't discuss Hernadez' availability for next season without referencing the situation he finds himself in personally, Frostie.

Reasoned discussion about a very big story in the NFL should be allowed here or in another thread so I think you really should reconsider your stance, you're defeating the purpose of this forum.

Fair enough guys, I read back through the posts so far and I agree with the PMs and posts about the censorship and as has been said pretty much everything is being discussed in a reasoned manner. I wasn't looking for the conversation to end by any means and I'm sorry if my post was taken in that way. I've deleted my previous instruction so feel free to discuss it freely. I'll use the excuse that I'm busy at a motor race for having bad judgement!

Syferus

It takes a very good mod to reconsider a decision. You're doing a hard job here but you're doing a great job too, Frostie.

helimachoptor

Syferus wrote: »

It takes a very good mod to reconsider a decision. You're doing a hard job here but you're doing a great job too, Frostie.

Valentines day is over man :pac:

But with the cops at his house... this may end badly

TO.

helimachoptor wrote: »

But with the cops at his house... this may end badly

Why? Routine warrant to search a suspects house. Unless he has the murder weapon and blood spattered clothes how is a search going to end badly? I don't get that. The media have been saying similar things as if a warrant search has never happened any suspect in any case. Media are truly making a circus out of it as are the cops because he is famous. The amount of Police and State Police turning up to his house today was just ridiculous.

Syferus

You know Rodger Goodell just waiting to wheel out his new NFLPA rubber-stamped ban hammer for this case.

If Big Ben can get four weeks for not being convicted of anything what will Hernandez get even if he only ends up being charged with obstruction of justice?

On one level I hope we get to see a talented player like Hernandez play again but he's obviously trying to cover his own skin and/or that of associates by destroying evidence so it's hard for me to rally behind his cause, at least not until we hear more information.

Lloyd was straight up executed with a shot to the back of the head so that both says anyone who is convicted of this isn't going to get away with manslaughter charges and makes me think that there's scope for this being gang-related.

Son Of A Vidic

Syferus wrote: »

On one level I hope we get to see a talented player like Hernandez play again but he's obviously trying to cover his own skin and/or that of associates by destroying evidence so it's hard for me to rally behind his cause, at least not until we hear more information.

If he gets off but was heavily involved in that man's death, then I'd prefer to never see him in a Patriots jersey again. And that's based on not only my own pricnciples, but also the values Bod Kraft expects from his players. If he can't abide by the patriot way then he has to go. Assuming of course he is guilty/was involved ect.

Syferus wrote: »

Lloyd was straight up executed with a shot to the back of the head so that both says anyone who is convicted of this isn't going to get away with manslaughter charges and makes me think that there's scope for this being gang-related.

It could very well be gang related and that could be the one saving grace for Hernandez. If some of his friends are tied into gang membership, then it wouldn't be very easy for Hernandez to get rid of them out of his life. Some of the latino gangs active in the Boston area are MS-13, The Latin Kings and Nesta. All are extremly violent and very, very dangerous organisations.

If some of his friends are involved, then they probably wouldn't have been too happy if Aaron had of dropped them last year when he got his big contract. So while many will say he's hanging with a bad crowd, why doesn't he get rid of them? Well if they have Latino gang affillations, then that's much easier said than done.

I'm not making excuses for Aaron, but it is a logical possibility. Then again, Aaraon himself could be a willing member of such a gang. In which case he deserves no sympathy.

bruschi

I hate those kind of bull**** recap stories from years ago trying to make out like there is a long standing issue. this is a story from 3 years ago, but yet is being talked about now. even that story JRG posted is crap, nothing out of the ordinary you wouldnt see in any sports related team. its a nothing story, trying to someway link it to behavioural problems that have always been there. Whilst there may be issues over Hernandez, the ridiculous 'I told you so' type stories surfacing now are plain stupid.

Son Of A Vidic

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Here is one about Hernandez -

Despite those question marks, New England made Hernandez the 113th pick in the draft, getting what many considered to be a player with first-round talent for a fourth-round price tag.

It didn’t take long for Hernandez’s quick temper to be revealed at Gillette Stadium. According to an NFL source, within days of being drafted, Hernandez was at the team facility trying to watch film.

When he couldn’t figure out how to use the equipment, he asked how it worked, but got no answer. When Wes Welker walked by the room, Hernandez asked for his help, but Welker said, “Rookie, you figure it out.”

So far all discussion in here surrounding Hernandez had been reasoned and sensible. But then you come in and post that ridiculous quote. I mean do you not realise how stupid and pointless that quote actually is?

Because this is it in a nutshell....

Rookie is trying to learn, gets frustrated and asks for help.
Veteran acts the bollocks and refuses to help.
All ready frustrated rookie tells veteran to fúck off ect, ect.

The Patriot Way is team first, always help the team and always put your teammates first. So If anything, the quote actually potrays Welker as a Kúnt. I'm sure Robert Kraft wouldn't be to impressed reading that, considering he paid Welker for long enough.

Ah but sure aren't they all great now, sure didn't eveyone know all along what was coming. Oh hang on, wait a second, I nearly forgot. Sure weren't these the very same journalists, who were falling over themselves and fawning over Hernandez when he signed the new contract last year. And wasn't this the very same media, who couldn't stop praising the Patriots and the brilliant value they got by sorting out Hernandez.

JaMarcus Hustle

This is a good, unbiased summary of where we are at the moment. Doesn't look good for Hernandez, but here's hoping it's all a big misunderstanding.

resdubwhite

until the full facts come to the light of day we cannot make any judgement on the Hernandez case.

If he is charged and found guilty of obstruction he should be canned. No excuses.

Masked Man

Actually the story was published two days ago

About an incident three years ago. Surely you can see his point?

Really - maybe you can produce other examples of players threatening 'Ill f*ck you up' to a teammate.

The ones where they just threaten aren't any fun*:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2QaoFUQxPQI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OcxI6Y8EDTo

In 2003, Romanowski attacked and injured one of his teammates, Marcus Williams, during a scrimmage. Williams, a backup tight end for the Oakland Raiders, was forced to retire after Romanowski confronted Williams after a play, ripped off his helmet, and crushed his eye socket with a punch.

Also look up Michael Westbrook.

You really think every player in every sport gets along with all his or her teammates all the time???

*bleacherreport coming in handy again.

It shows an ongoing issue with the player's character. The NFL has very strict rules about the behaviour of players. DJ Williams was suspended for nine games for supplying a 'non human' urine sample and getting caught driving 'with ability impared'. Despite the fact that Williams was a team leader on defence most Broncos fans called for him to be cut from the team because they want to see a team with good charachter individuals committed to the team.

Are you really comparing cursing at a teammate to giving a fake urine sample. Fans want the team to win and will generally accept certain problems in a player's character (they're just people ffs) as long as it doesn't cross a line. Sometimes they even accept them when they do cross that line (see: Ray Lewis)

So it was all Welker's fault that Hernandez couldn't control his anger and it was Welker's fault that the guy threatened to 'f*ck him up'. I wonder if Welker was still on the Pats roster would you be making the same accusation.

It's not a big incident so you can't really say it's one or the others fault but Welker was kind of a dick. If your a dick to somebody, you should kind of expect them to be a dick back.

Son Of A Vidic

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

No - the Patriot way is coach and team only and the players are merely a necessity to facilitate it.

Eh...duh! Right, let's see what I said...

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

The Patriot Way is team first, always help the team and always put your teammates first.

I assumned you would have understood that. But if you did, I wouldn't have to be repeating myself again.

Of course players are necessary. The Patriot Way doesn't exist by itself. It is not a self-aware entity. It doesn't exist without players, or without team particpation. You obviously don't have the full graps on what the Patriot Way means. Otherwise you wouldn't be wasting my time with your nonsensical contributions.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

So it was all Welker's fault that Hernandez couldn't control his anger and it was Welker's fault that the guy threatened to 'f*ck him up'.

Control what? Welker wasn't beaten to a pulp or violently assaulted. He was an ignorant ass and Hernandez told him go Fúck himseklf over it ect. It happens in college and places of work everyday. The newb gets treated like dirt, but once they stand up for themselves things quickly change. I'm sure it's happened to most of us in here.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

I wonder if Welker was still on the Pats roster would you be making the same accusation.

The only one making acusations here is you. Welker didn't help a rookie out who asked for help. You're the one who posted that stupid quote in here. I gave an opinion on it and not an accusation, there is a big diference.

Everyone in here Pats and non-Pats fan alike, have all made good and logical contributions to this issue. Of course you could have nearly bet money on you coming in with ridiculous quote. Why can't you be like other non-Pats contributors in here and actually make a contribution?

Jolly Red Giant

There is a difference between getting involved in a punch up during practice or a match and threatening a teammate because he wouldn't show you how to press the play button as he was passing by the door of a room.

And that is not to defend Romanowksi - he was a nutcase - but his loss of temper happened on the field - not in the video room.

Masked Man wrote: »

Are you really comparing cursing at a teammate to giving a fake urine sample.

But here's the rub - Hernandez wasn't cursing out a teammate - he threatened his team mate (and according to Young the threat was serious) for not helping him work the tape player.

Masked Man wrote: »

Fans want the team to win and will generally accept certain problems in a player's character (they're just people ffs) as long as it doesn't cross a line.

That is the difference between the fans of some teams and the fans of other teams. Many fans will not accept the negative character of players no matter how valuable they are to the team. Some teams go out of their way to ensure that they avoid players with character concerns because that is not the image they want to portray of their team. Speaking of the Broncos - the fans never took to Cutler or Marshall because the first was a whinging cry-baby and the second was a nut case. Even the recent case with Carter when he was arrested for cheating at gambling and the case was subsequently thrown out - the attitude of many Broncos fans was that the guy should be dumped for putting himself into that situation in the first place. Broncos fans do not tolerate the Broncos team having any truck with players who have 'character' issues - no matter how good they are.

Masked Man wrote: »

It's not a big incident so you can't really say it's one or the others fault but Welker was kind of a dick. If your a dick to somebody, you should kind of expect them to be a dick back.

CM called Welker a c*nt and you are calling him a dick. How do you know Welker was being a dick? Did BB pay Welker $million to push a play button because a rookie just in the door couldn't figure it out? That is the lot of the rookie - the vets don't go around showing them how to use film equipment. Welker is a higly respected and talented vetern football player - Hernandez was a fourth round draft pick who was known for being a dick during his time in college (which is why he dropped to the fourth round). Hernandez blew a gasket and threatened a team mate he had barely met because he wouldn't jump to his tune. If you can't see that then you are clearly blinded by loyalty to the Patriot Way. :rolleyes:

SantryRed

Watching the news here, it doesn't look good for Hernandez at all tbh.

I almost think the only reason that it is said the police are due to execute a warrant for his arrest for obstruction is that they may still be looking to charge him with more, and more meaningful charges.

Doesn't look good either way, think the Pats need to start planning without him for this season!

Masked Man

Last post cause this discussion looks really stupid after Frostie's posts. This is def not a reasoned discussion about something important.

CM called Welker a c*nt and you are calling him a dick.

No I didn't. Learn to read. I love the way that based on second hand info your so sure Hernandez was serious, but we can't suggest that Welker was acting like a dick. Cursing at somebody who acts like a dick is not that big of a character flaw. Even if it is a threat stop making it out to be more than it is just cause it happened between two nfl players, this **** happens all the time. It is not a big deal.

If you can't see that then you are clearly blinded by loyalty to the Patriot Way.

Clearly I'm the one that can't about objective about the pats. Boy I sure am worried about that Tebowmania. What have we unleashed???

I'm out, nobody is coming off well talking about this stupid and meaningless incident.

Jolly Red Giant

More trouble -

Hernandez is being sued by 30 year old Alexander Bradley who claims that Hernandez shot him in a car last February causing the loss of his eye and the use of his right arm and Bradley has required multiple surgeries. The shooting happened allegedly using an unlicenced gun owned by Hernandez after the men had been partying at a local strip club.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/20/19060264-florida-lawsuit-alleges-patriots-hernandez-shot-friend-in-face?lite

The lawsuit was filed four days before the murder of Odin Lloyd. Bradley had refused to cooperate with the police after the shooting so no further investigation was carried out. Police are expected to reopen the investigation. Bradley's lawyer stated “When we get Mr. Hernandez’s testimony, hopefully he’ll tell us (if the shooting was deliberate). My guess is he’ll say I didn’t do it deliberately,”.

Bradley was working as an assistant for Hernandez when they got involved in an argument with one another. They subsequently left with two other men. Bradley was found on the side of the road bleeding the following morning after apparently been dumped out of the car.

PS - apparently Bradley has an extensive criminal record - which poses the question of why Hernandez would hire him?

TO.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

More trouble -

Hernandez is being sued by 30 year old Alexander Bradley who claims that Hernandez shot him in a car last February causing the loss of his eye and the use of his right arm and Bradley has required multiple surgeries. The shooting happened allegedly using an unlicenced gun owned by Hernandez after the men had been partying at a local strip club.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/20/19060264-florida-lawsuit-alleges-patriots-hernandez-shot-friend-in-face?lite.

The lawsuit was filed four days before the murder of Odin Lloyd. Bradley had refused to cooperate with the police after the shooting so no further investigation was carried out. Police are expected to reopen the investigation. Bradley's lawyer stated “When we get Mr. Hernandez’s testimony, hopefully he’ll tell us (if the shooting was deliberate). My guess is he’ll say I didn’t do it deliberately,”.

Bradley was working as an assistant for Hernandez when they got involved in an argument with one another. They subsequently left with two other men. Bradley was found on the side of the road bleeding the following morning after apparently been dumped out of the car.

PS - apparently Bradley has an extensive criminal record - which poses the question of why Hernandez would hire him?

Have you been living under a rock? And do you buy into any bull**** the media feed you. This case will go nowhere. The guy when questioned by the guy who found him and a cop who turned up couldn't give a description of what happened. He also said the guy was a big black guy. He then changed his mind and said it was 2 guys and then comes out 3 months later saying it was Hernandez.

At the time he failed to give a statement to police and in fact the cops thought it was done and dusted. His lawyer is also an idiot and said he presumed cops turned up and questioned his client in hospital which in relaism they didn't because he refused to give a statement. This guy is clearly piggy backing a murder trial knowing Hernandez is big news right now for the murder. The investigation will go nowhere and it will never reach a courtroom.

Seriously no surprises you are in here trying to stir sh1t as usual.

eagle eye

SantryRed wrote: »

Watching the news here, it doesn't look good for Hernandez at all tbh.

I almost think the only reason that it is said the police are due to execute a warrant for his arrest for obstruction is that they may still be looking to charge him with more, and more meaningful charges.

Doesn't look good either way, think the Pats need to start planning without him for this season!

They could have arrested him already for obstruction of justice and then add more serious charges later on. The longer it goes without an arrest the less likely that it will happen at all.

bruschi

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

blah blah blah

As I initially said, the article you posted was a load of cack. Find something worthwhile that adds to it, rather than some stupid hearsay piece which tries add to what is a murder case. The fact that it is a murder case is serious enough, there is no need for all the additional spoofing to add to it.

the others have said enough to you, but i'll do the dignified thing and actually respond to the questions you posed to me directly.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Actually the story was published two days ago

does that in itself not tell you anything? an incident happened 3 years ago and its being published now? Does the fact that it was not an issue 3 years ago tell you anything?

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Really - maybe you can produce other examples of players threatening 'Ill f*ck you up' to a teammate.

there are literally countless cases of team mates fighting in practise or within team organisations. If you think otherwise, then you seriously dont get sports.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It shows an ongoing issue with the player's character. The NFL has very strict rules about the behaviour of players. DJ Williams was suspended for nine games for supplying a 'non human' urine sample and getting caught driving 'with ability impared'. Despite the fact that Williams was a team leader on defence most Broncos fans called for him to be cut from the team because they want to see a team with good charachter individuals committed to the team.

no, its a nothing story. it pretty much has nothing to do with anything. trying to link a player say "I'll **** you up" to a player suspended for 9 games over urine samples is tedious at best. As I said, the fact there is a murder case being investigated is enough for Hernandez, these other stories are just stupid.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Where was the 'I told you so'? The article points out a series of incidents that demonstrate there may not be smoke without fire.

a "series"? It shows nothing. if you cant decipher between decent articles that actually talk in fact and significant stories then its probably best you stay out of the discussion

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Even if Hernandez had nothing to do with this murder - the fact that he is connected with it at all rasies serious question marks over the players character.

of course it does. no one is actually saying anything different. What I am saying is the ridiculous story has nothing to do with character, just a very insignificant dressing room bust up that happens daily in pretty much every sporting organisation.

and the fact that you throw in the mess of a Bradley shooting incident shows you are not really reading any of these discussions and just throwing up crap for the sake of it.

Goose_Hyypia

I find it hard to believe Hernandez will get away without being charged with anything, but heres to hoping!

resdubwhite

Can I put it on record.

Even though he signed for the Broncos and is very much dead to me.

It was a pretty ****tty act by Welker to refuse help with the Tape machine.

resdubwhite

resdubwhite wrote: »

Can I put it on record.

Even though he signed for the Broncos and is very much dead to me.

It was a pretty ****tty act by Welker to refuse help with the Tape machine.

Hes dead to you for moving?
If you were him you would have taken less money to play for a team that tried to phase you out last year ill take it?


If this is how bronco and pats fans mingle in the offseason I can't wait to see how the two threads go the week of there game

resdubwhite

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

Hes dead to you for moving?
If you were him you would have taken less money to play for a team that tried to phase you out last year ill take it?


If this is how bronco and pats fans mingle in the offseason I can't wait to see how the two threads go the week of there game

Less guaranteed money at Denver. only year 1 contract is guaranteed there. Full 10 (with incentives if 1000 yard seasons were forthcoming) made it larger than the Denver contract.)

If money was the issue he'd have taken the move to the titans.
He wanted to stick it to Kraft and Belichick. They wanted to stick it to him by lowballing. The team is the loser.

Still a ****ty thing to say to Hernandez and the story has no relevence to the current situation AHern finds himself in.

matthew8

Gee it just seemed like a bit of fun by Welker. It's the biggest nothing story I've ever heard. Neither player acted in a particularly bad way.

resdubwhite

matthew8 wrote: »

. Neither player acted in a particularly bad way.

Welker went to Denver. I disagree.

resdubwhite

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

And to be honest - it still is astonishing that Pats fans on here are dissing on Welker because he told a rookie (a few days after being drafted) - in passing - to go and find out how to do something for himself - and there is not a single word of criticism for the same rookie who then lost his temper f*cked Welker out of it and then threatened him. It think it really does not show the Pats fans on here up in any kind of positive light.

I think you are clutching at straws

I'll make my decision on Hernandez when the full facts come out. Not after Media tweets. IF guilty of a minimum of obstruction i hope the team cuts him.

As for the Welker incident. If I asked a coleague for assistance in my first week at a new job and got that sort of abuse I'd be bet out of them.

resdubwhite

resdubwhite wrote: »

Less guaranteed money at Denver. only year 1 contract is guaranteed there. Full 10 (with incentives if 1000 yard seasons were forthcoming) made it larger than the Denver contract.)

If money was the issue he'd have taken the move to the titans.
He wanted to stick it to Kraft and Belichick. They wanted to stick it to him by lowballing. The team is the loser.

Still a ****ty thing to say to Hernandez and the story has no relevence to the current situation AHern finds himself in.

Ya it's ****ty but the guys one o the great pats receivers as far as I'm concerned so for him to be dead to you seems petty

B dawk finished his career at the broncos but he's still my favourite player and I appreciate everything he's done for the team

resdubwhite

Noel Jolly Fountain wrote: »

Ya it's ****ty but the guys one o the great pats receivers as far as I'm concerned so for him to be dead to you seems petty

B dawk finished his career at the broncos but he's still my favourite player and I appreciate everything he's done for the team

Dawkins didn't deliberately pick a conference rival when selecting a new team.

Loved Welker as a Patriot. Fantastic player. Will not be watching out for him in the future as a bronco.