UPC price increases - Comreg's complete capitulation and abdication of responsibility

dub45

You may need to add abit more to the letter.

UPC proclaim their Acceptable usage policy to be part of their Terms and Conditions.

This User Policy has been created to promote the integrity, security, reliability and privacy of the UPC systems and networks and form part of the legally binding Terms and Conditions

By the way it is interesting in the light of their behaviour that they refer to the Terms and Conditions as being legally binding!

Then there is the following:

Section 2: Modification of User Policy
UPC retains the right to amend, modify or substitute this User Policy at any time and we will notify you in writing 30 days in advance of doing so if the modification, amendment or substitution constitutes a material change to the Terms and Conditions of the Services

The policy has obviously been recently amended as it includes the allowance for the new 100Mb product which has only just been released:

15GB for Fibre Power Broadband 1Mb users,
40GB for Fibre Power Broadband 8Mb users,
120GB for Fibre Power Broadband 10Mb and 15Mb users,
250GB for Fibre Power Broadband 20Mb and 30Mb users and
500GB for Fibre Power Broadband 100Mb users.

There was a previous amendment when the caps were first "revealed" and now this recent one. Surely all customers are entitled to know when such figures are changed updated or in the case on the "not actually unlimited"products actually revealed? I presume that nobody has been informed in writing of the the inclusion of the caps in the document?

(By the way surely all these documents should carry the last date of amendment and where they were uploaded to a website? - and that should apply to all companies)

And then there is this nonsense!

You should check this User Policy regularly as we may change it to take on board new issues that may arise in connection with your use of the Services or the way we provide the Services. The most up to date version of the User Policy will apply to your use of the Services, even if you have not read the updated version.

So all UPC customers should have a note in their diary to check the usage policy regularly! But wait how do you know anything has changed unless there is a date on the document which might give you some indication - or do they expect you to keep an old copy handy and do a line for line comparison?

Of course if they complied with their "legally binding Terms and Conditions" and informed customers of any such changes the crap above would not be necessary.

Elessar

My mother signed up to UPC digital TV just before christmas. I am with UPC for broadband for over 2 years. Now, my mother hates it. She's getting fewer stations than she thought she was plus the program guide is very slow and sluggish. She wants to go back to sky. On top of this, we have just got the first bill and UPC have overcharged us (I KNEW this would happen, but she wouldn't listen). Unfortunately we are now in a 12 month contract.

We want to cancel so I can just go back to broadband only (never had a problem until we added the TV) and so she can go back to sky.

Do these price increases mean a change of contract, thus allowing customers to cancel their contract without penalty? I remember O2 did similar and because of the change, people were allowed to cancel their contracts with them.

Dr Pepper

Sorry Elessar. I don't have an answer to your question but I would like to get an answer if anybody knows.

UPC replied to my complaint of last Friday by saying:

Thank you for your recent email.

Having reviewed your account I can see that you have been auto-upgraded from 15MB to 20 MB as per new UPC price hike policy 2011 which is just increased by €2.00 only.

If you wish to downgrade you will be charged of €10.00 as downgrade admin fee.

Moreover price hike was made public in the IRISH TIMES in the month of September 2010. All the customer have been informed via letters, e-billing etc.

My sincerest apology for not being received any information regarding price hike.

Aside from the linguistic errors, this guy is stating that I will be charged the €10 downgrade fee. Is that right?

I also got several charges added to my first bill that were not expected. When I called, the 'mistake' was admitted and the relevant credit applied to my account. It appears from this thread that UPC are either incompetent when it comes to setting up the first bill or else they purposely pile on charges knowing that the majority of customers will not notice/care!

I'm beginning to dislike UPC, although they do seem to provide a good product at a good price.

Elessar

Well, according to section 16 of their terms and conditions I can cancel the contract within 30 days. Comreg agrees.

Note: A press notice and/or a notice on your service provider’s website are not sufficient to let you know about the proposed changes to your contract terms and your right to withdraw.

I am in the process of drafting an email and will also send a registered letter. I phoned Comreg and have a case open and they asked me to CC them on the email.

However I just noticed something on their website that I think they will use against me/us - at http://www.upc.ie/about_us/pricenotice/ at the bottom there are different dates? It states:

UPC’s Broadband and Phone services remain excellent value, however under the terms of your contract you have the right to cancel or downgrade your service within 30 days of 3 December 2010 without penalty if you do not agree with these price changes (for those customers who subscribe to UPC Broadband Light this 30 day period applies from 21 December 2010).

The 3rd december?? Is it not when the price change comes into effect? I wasnt notified at all either.

Elessar

/\/ollog wrote: »

I've added the upload change.

Vollog, what price increase are you talking about when you mention the twentieth of January this year?

Dr Pepper

I'm not sure how that date (3rd Dec) could have been chosen. My first notification of the price increase was my bill on 21st Jan (amount noticed on online banking). There is a price increase notice in the "My Messages" section of "My UPC" on the website dated 7th Jan, which is odd and no use to me because I only registered for "My UPC" on 21st Jan! How could I have received a message 2 weeks before registering?

Beside, who logs onto every website they are registered with on a regular basis to check their "My Messages"? Bah! :rolleyes:

Nollog

Elessar wrote: »

Vollog, what price increase are you talking about when you mention the twentieth of January this year?

The lower-speed broadband users.
In the original price increase, they made some mistakes about the packages they would be upgraded to, they changed it late December so the lower-speed users got a few extra weeks.

Also Nollog is fine.

dub45

Dr Pepper wrote: »

Sorry Elessar. I don't have an answer to your question but I would like to get an answer if anybody knows.

UPC replied to my complaint of last Friday by saying:

Thank you for your recent email.

Having reviewed your account I can see that you have been auto-upgraded from 15MB to 20 MB as per new UPC price hike policy 2011 which is just increased by €2.00 only.

If you wish to downgrade you will be charged of €10.00 as downgrade admin fee.

Moreover price hike was made public in the IRISH TIMES in the month of September 2010. All the customer have been informed via letters, e-billing etc.

My sincerest apology for not being received any information regarding price hike.

Aside from the linguistic errors, this guy is stating that I will be charged the €10 downgrade fee. Is that right?

I also got several charges added to my first bill that were not expected. When I called, the 'mistake' was admitted and the relevant credit applied to my account. It appears from this thread that UPC are either incompetent when it comes to setting up the first bill or else they purposely pile on charges knowing that the majority of customers will not notice/care!

I'm beginning to dislike UPC, although they do seem to provide a good product at a good price.

That reply from UPC is absolutely great! Apart from the fact that it is full of lies that employee is so off the UPC "message" that it will give UPC Jason a heart attack:) Great to read a UPC employee actually using the term "price hike" but as for the rest? The Irish Times in September? How about the New York Times in August and the Kilkenny Bugle in July. Pick a paper pick a month its all irrelevant anyway.

In brief UPC raised their prices on 4th January for that rise to be legitimate customers should have been notified in writing by 4th December (a months notice in other words). If you did not get the notice then you are entitled to cancel your contract or downgrade without charge.

dub45

Dr Pepper wrote: »

I'm not sure how that date (3rd Dec) could have been chosen. My first notification of the price increase was my bill on 21st Jan (amount noticed on online banking). There is a price increase notice in the "My Messages" section of "My UPC" on the website dated 7th Jan, which is odd and no use to me because I only registered for "My UPC" on 21st Jan! How could I have received a message 2 weeks before registering?

Beside, who logs onto every website they are registered with on a regular basis to check their "My Messages"? Bah! :rolleyes:

The date 3rd December (or 4th December has also been mentioned) refers to the last date by which customers could be notified in writing by UPC if their increase in charges on 4th January was to be in accordance with their own Terms and Conditions and Comreg's stipulations regarding appropriate notice.

jor el

UPC reply to Dr Pepper wrote:

Moreover price hike was made public in the IRISH TIMES in the month of September 2010. All the customer have been informed via letters, e-billing etc.

Did any customer that's been effected by this price hike actually get a letter then? Or moreover, did you get a letter, Dr Pepper, as this UPC employee seems to be saying you did.

You should see the price change in your e-bill, but this is not notification of a price change, this comes after the price change.

Anyway, I got a response from Comreg.

Comreg wrote:

Thank you for your email.

ComReg is in ongoing communication with UPC regarding this matter. If you are not satisfied that you were appropriately notified by UPC, at least one month in advance of the change, you should lodge a formal complaint with UPC customer.support@upc.ie and copy ComReg consumerline@comreg.ie .

If you are not satisfied that your complaint has been dealt with by UPC you should inform ComReg consumerline@comreg.ie of the details of your individual complaint as follows:-

· Details, including dates, of any communication you received from UPC in relation to the change, (if possible provide copies)

· Details of the price change i.e. difference in the total amount billed , date billed and any other changes

· Details of any communication to/from UPC in relation to your complaint, (if possible provide copies)

So, basically Comreg are not going to do anything about it, except look into my complaint if I choose to lodge one with UPC. This will do nothing about UPC's lack of proper notification to all of it's customers, nor will it stop them doing it again in future. As I requested, Comreg should tell UPC to undo the price raise, and send the proper notification to all effected customers before implementing it again.

Dr Pepper

jor el wrote: »

Did any customer that's been effected by this price hike actually get a letter then? Or moreover, did you get a letter, Dr Pepper, as this UPC employee seems to be saying you did.

I didn't receive any letter. Here is the communication I received:
- a text message, dated 11th Jan - "You can now view and pay your latest UPC bill on www.upc.ie. This bill includes a price change. Log into My UPC and select My Messages for more information."
- my (increased) bill on 21st Jan
- a message in My Messages on My UPC. The message was dated 7th Jan, but I hadn't even registered for My UPC until after I got my bill on 21st Jan!

In fairness, I had forgotten about the text message - but that was sent more than a week after the increase was introduced and only 1 week before I received my bill, so in no way constitutes 30 days advance notice.

By the way, I got the exact same response as you (word-for-word) from Jean Dwyer at comreg!

IMO, what this issue needs is a competent journalist that will write the ugly unabridged facts as they are and give UPC and comreg the public kick-up-the-arse they deserve. It's plain to see that UPC purposely ignored the regulations to introduce the price increase with the minimum of fallout (i.e. customer loss/complaints). I don't believe that written complaints to UPC and comreg are going to get very far.

bealtine

jor el wrote: »

So, basically Comreg are not going to do anything about it, except look into my complaint if I choose to lodge one with UPC.

That's a standard response, exactly the same one they send for almost everything. It's likely that however received the complaint has no "power"
to do anything about it and can't escalate the complaint.

Perhaps representations at a higher level are required?
In this perhaps IrelandOffline can help?

dub45

Comreg's response in this case is quite shocking and I do not use that word lightly.

Here we have a multinational actually challenging the authority of a national regulator it is that stark.

A mutlinational breaking its own "legally binding" Terms and Conditions (its own words!)

A mulitnational ignoring EC regulations.

A mulitinational imposing price increases (and lying to beat the band!) which affect 50% of the houselholds in the country.

A multinational generating at a guess up to 750.000 euros in January alone from irregular price increases.

And the Regulator tells individuals to complain themselves!!!!

Looks like the Joe Duffy show is the only hope for real regulation!

We should organise a protest outside Comreg's offices one of these days.

Dr Pepper

dub45 wrote: »

...Looks like the Joe Duffy show is the only hope for real regulation....

Sad, but probably true *shudders*

RoyalMarine

sent email to them.
also got my dad who is a customer to do the same.

dub45

Dr Pepper wrote: »

Sad, but probably true *shudders*

Why not cc your correspondence with Comreg to the Joe Duffy show?

Myrddin

dub45 wrote: »

Why not cc your correspondence with Comreg to the Joe Duffy show?

Actually that's not a bad idea. Though if we get Joe involved UPC will be shut down by next week :pac:

I'll send the show on a mail & see what they say.

Dr Pepper

Thanks. I don't want to have to talk on national radio!

Myrddin

Dr Pepper wrote: »

Thanks. I don't want to have to talk on national radio!

That's whats wrong with us (collectively). Feck it man, if the only way to get anything done is to shout about it then so be it. A new year a new EnterNow & all that jazz

It's likely Joe won't entertain the thoughts of airing the issue though.

Dr Pepper

Hehe, thanks for the pep talk but I kind of have a personal resolution never in my life to speak on the Joe Duffy show

Yes, it will have to be a 'slow news day' to get this issue on. It's not the kind of emotive, sensationalist stuff he usually entertains (provokes) his listeners with.

Maybe a 'letter to the editor' or an email to a journalist who covers this type of subject (communications or consumer issues) would have a better chance of reaching people.

dub45

Dr Pepper wrote: »

Hehe, thanks for the pep talk but I kind of have a personal resolution never in my life to speak on the Joe Duffy show

Yes, it will have to be a 'slow news day' to get this issue on. It's not the kind of emotive, sensationalist stuff he usually entertains (provokes) his listeners with.

Maybe a 'letter to the editor' or an email to a journalist who covers this type of subject (communications or consumer issues) would have a better chance of reaching people.

Noone said you have to talk on the show just let them know this is going on and get them interested. Why not pitch it to them like this:

We want to nominate joe as honorary regulator for a month to see if he can do better for the people than Comreg - we fill his researchers in on the problems and say go to it. As I have mentioned before it is not a small issue it affects 17% of the population and up to 50% of households also the issue of regulation is a good one to bring up now with election eager T.D's.

Nollog

I got that reply from comreg too.
Replied back basically asking them if they're that desperate for something to read.

"This is a very inefficient way to handle it.
This effects not just me, a single customer, but every single customer of UPC.
Why not take up my complaint directly with them on behalf of everyone
who was not informed rather than have everyone lodge a complaint with
them and you review each claim individually."

dub45

/\/ollog wrote: »

I got that reply from comreg too.
Replied back basically asking them if they're that desperate for something to read.

"This is a very inefficient way to handle it.
This effects not just me, a single customer, but every single customer of UPC.
Why not take up my complaint directly with them on behalf of everyone
who was not informed rather than have everyone lodge a complaint with
them and you review each claim individually."

Amazing the bureaucracy you have to go through to make a complaint and UPC can raise prices without a bother! What a country:rolleyes: January alone could = €750,000 from an "irregular" price increase and Comreg wants more details???????????

token56

I wasn't aware of any of this until I got a text a lunch time saying "you can now view and pay your latest UPC bill on www.upc.ie. This bill includes a price change..."

This is the only notification I received about. I dont understand how them publishing it in the Irish Times is adequate warning at all. But it seems to me like very few people here are having any luck at all pursuing complaints so what is one to do? I suppose the best option is to contact UPC and cc Comreg, but will this achieve anything?

emy

A few minutes ago I have got five messages, (and they keep sending, I do not know how to make it stop) from UPC letting me know that the price went up with €2.

kingofslaves

I called UPC about 2 weeks ago to make my point that I didn't get the price change letter. They said we will have to look into it and get back to you. The notice was put in the IT and on the website. I registered with 'MyUPC' but forgot my access number and asked for a new one. I still haven't got it so called them again at 9pm on 26th Jan. I wanted to ask about the access number but also asked if I could make a complaint about the price change. Spoke to a guy called 'John' and he said yes and I explained that my bill comes out the 7th of every month so even if I DID get a letter with my last bill, (7th Jan) it would be too late. Also if it had been in the Dec bill that too wouldn't have been 30 days notice.

He said it would be sent to the complaints dept and gave me a referance number. He also said they would contact me within 48hrs. I didn't get a call so rang them back on Monday 31st. They said someone called me on both my landline and mobile and sent a reply to my email address that I gave John on the 26th. The person I spoke to read out the email but I checked my spam filter and my webmail, (I have my own domain and usually check my mail with thunderbird) and assured her there was no email.

Oh I forgot to say I got a letter on the 28th dated the 26th telling me of the price change ! Anyway the person I spoke to said she would open another complaint and someone would get back to me. I then got another letter dated the 28th, (can you see a pattern here ?) saying this:

Re:Account Number XXXXXXXXXXXX Complaint case Number: XXXXXXXX

I acknowledge receipt of your complaint case which I have received today. As per our terms & conditions we inserted an advert in the newspapers on the 4.12.12 to give all our customers 30 days notice of a price increase.

We also have this on our website to advise. As a company we try to keep the price increase to a minimum. Our admin dept have reissued a copy of the price increase letter to you and I do appologise it was not included in your bill.

If you need to contact me back my best method is by email and my address is at the bottom of the letter.

I then get a call today from Ann Karey who explained the person who sent the email & letter was at a funeral today (convienient ?) so she appologised and I explained the Comreg notice word for word and she said UPC will have to review thier T&C practices if this is true. She also said she would give me €40 credit for the mistake. I said yes i would accept it, but did I have to pay the full amount of this month's bill and the credit will come off next bill ? No I just have to pay the balance she said.

I also told her that even if they had sent the letter with my dec or jan bill it wouldn't have been giving me 30 days notice. Again she appologised. In fact the funny thing is I never got the text messages !

So my advice is keep on complaining and quote the Comreg notice:

http://askcomreg.ie/news/changes_to_contracts___consumer_rights.7.1024.LE.asp

"ComReg notes that certain providers of telephone and/or electronic communications services are proposing changes to consumer contracts (terms and conditions) in the coming period. ComReg has made it clear to all service providers that press notifications (and other forms of notification not sent to subscribers individually) are not considered as meeting the requirement of the Regulations."

In fact I've just seen on the comreg site while copying the link, that they have filed a finding of non-compliance with respect to notification of proposed changes to contract terms and conditions. details here http://askcomreg.ie/news/comreg_notifies_upc_of_a_finding_of_non_compliance.7.1026.LE.asp and you can read the notice here: (Adobe PDF) http://www.comreg.ie/publications/comreg_notifies_upc_of_a_finding_of_non-compliance_with_respect_to_notification_of_proposed_changes_to_contract_terms_and_conditions.583.103800.p.html

click here to download the document.

dub45

kingofslaves wrote: »

I called UPC about 2 weeks ago to make my point that I didn't get the price change letter. They said we will have to look into it and get back to you. The notice was put in the IT and on the website. I registered with 'MyUPC' but forgot my access number and asked for a new one. I still haven't got it so called them again at 9pm on 26th Jan. I wanted to ask about the access number but also asked if I could make a complaint about the price change. Spoke to a guy called 'John' and he said yes and I explained that my bill comes out the 7th of every month so even if I DID get a letter with my last bill, (7th Jan) it would be too late. Also if it had been in the Dec bill that too wouldn't have been 30 days notice.

He said it would be sent to the complaints dept and gave me a referance number. He also said they would contact me within 48hrs. I didn't get a call so rang them back on Monday 31st. They said someone called me on both my landline and mobile and sent a reply to my email address that I gave John on the 26th. The person I spoke to read out the email but I checked my spam filter and my webmail, (I have my own domain and usually check my mail with thunderbird) and assured her there was no email.

Oh I forgot to say I got a letter on the 28th dated the 26th telling me of the price change ! Anyway the person I spoke to said she would open another complaint and someone would get back to me. I then got another letter dated the 28th, (can you see a pattern here ?) saying this:

Re:Account Number XXXXXXXXXXXX Complaint case Number: XXXXXXXX

I acknowledge receipt of your complaint case which I have received today. As per our terms & conditions we inserted an advert in the newspapers on the 4.12.12 to give all our customers 30 days notice of a price increase.

We also have this on our website to advise. As a company we try to keep the price increase to a minimum. Our admin dept have reissued a copy of the price increase letter to you and I do appologise it was not included in your bill.

If you need to contact me back my best method is by email and my address is at the bottom of the letter.

I then get a call today from Ann Karey who explained the person who sent the email & letter was at a funeral today (convienient ?) so she appologised and I explained the Comreg notice word for word and she said UPC will have to review thier T&C practices if this is true. She also said she would give me €40 credit for the mistake. I said yes i would accept it, but did I have to pay the full amount of this month's bill and the credit will come off next bill ? No I just have to pay the balance she said.

I also told her that even if they had sent the letter with my dec or jan bill it wouldn't have been giving me 30 days notice. Again she appologised. In fact the funny thing is I never got the text messages !

So my advice is keep on complaining and quote the Comreg notice:

http://askcomreg.ie/news/changes_to_contracts___consumer_rights.7.1024.LE.asp

"ComReg notes that certain providers of telephone and/or electronic communications services are proposing changes to consumer contracts (terms and conditions) in the coming period. ComReg has made it clear to all service providers that press notifications (and other forms of notification not sent to subscribers individually) are not considered as meeting the requirement of the Regulations."

In fact I've just seen on the comreg site while copying the link, that they have filed a finding of non-compliance with respect to notification of proposed changes to contract terms and conditions. details here http://askcomreg.ie/news/comreg_notifies_upc_of_a_finding_of_non_compliance.7.1026.LE.asp and you can read the notice here: (Adobe PDF) http://www.comreg.ie/publications/comreg_notifies_upc_of_a_finding_of_non-compliance_with_respect_to_notification_of_proposed_changes_to_contract_terms_and_conditions.583.103800.p.html

click here to download the document.

That's great news indeed a bit of action at last from Comreg:):)

Also with regard to the claim that you report above from UPC about their Terms and Conditions there is no provision in their Terms and Conditions for using the newspaper to inform customers about a price increase.

Dr Pepper

Thanks kingofslaves... Brightens a dull Wednesday morning right up

From the document above wrote:

Pursuant to Regulation 32 of the Universal Service Regulations, UPC has one month within which to state its views on ComReg’s finding, or to remedy its non-compliance.

The Regulations provide that if, at the end of the one-month period, ComReg is of the opinion that UPC has not complied with its obligations, it may apply to the High Court for such order as may be appropriate by way of compliance with those obligations.

Oooh.. Sounds good! If anybody hears of UPC's response to this or subsequent action by Comreg in a month's time, please post it here.

Mad_Mike

About bloody time!
Starting to wonder if Comreg are as bad as the ****ing Financial Regulator who allowed our banks to get us all in the ****!

dub45

Dr Pepper wrote: »

Thanks kingofslaves... Brightens a dull Wednesday morning right up

Oooh.. Sounds good! If anybody hears of UPC's response to this or subsequent action by Comreg in a month's time, please post it here.

From the Irish Times on Wed

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0202/1224288769135.html

.......UPC said it believed it had complied with “all regulatory obligations as provided under our licence”. It said it would take the time allowed to it to respond and had “nothing further to add”.

They still dont know what they have in their own "legally binding" (their own words) Terms and Conditions!.