Amir Khan v Paul McCloskey - Manchester, April 16

makl

walshb wrote: »

I am not saying that corruption does not happen, and who knows here, but seriously, it's clutching at straws to think that Paul would have won that fight. There is always a possibilty, maybe Khan trips over himself and knocks himself out, but for the 18 mins that Paul showed me, his chances were very very slim.

He showed me he could do enough. He kept catching Khan with a swinging left hook after jabbing right moving right. Khan kept coming in with 6-8 punches, barging at McCloskey, but he landed no more than 1. Of course he was busier, but McCloskey's gameplan had to be defensive. He had to hope to floor Khan in the later rounds. McCloskey could have come at Khan as much as he liked, but does anyone here believe that even Bradley could outbox Khan sufficiently enough to gain a points decision in Manchester with Oscar, Freddie, and 3 English judges in tow? No way.

I was impressed with McCloskey that he wasn't afraid of Khan's handspeed, he didn't change his style for the especially 'great amazing' khan, showed that he was well able to slip or ship any punches - far more easily than anyone else i've seen fight him. To say Khan had this the bag ignores all of this. Of course Roach is going to say this anyway. What, he's going to suggest that they rematch instead of Bradley??! That his fighter is British standard only?

And more than likely, someone upstairs in GBP didn't think Khan was too safe in this fight either, judging by the premature finish.

Boooourns

walshb wrote: »

Well tonight he was far more special than Paul. Khan can go on and unify the division. He wants Bradley. I think he can beat him. Will that make him special in your eyes?

Is Khan perfect? No. He has weaknesses. But all fighters do. He is stil winning and beating his opponents.

Jesus this place got taken over last night haha. Even some suggestion that Khan is only just above Euro level!! The mist of hate decended down upon alot of peoples eyes towards Khan and even though i thought he was poor last night (McCloskeys awkwardness didn't help) he's easily in the World class level and the lad is only 24! He has a lot to improve though.
I did think his interview was poor last night and he'll have to stay in the U.S.A for a while now as the whole build up and including the fight was a complete disaster for him.

I'm sure McCloskey will realise he was getting outboxed last night and he could pull another big fight because of the way the fight finished.

If the folks that came on here just for this thread could try and watch the Juanma or Ortiz fight from last night then they can see the beautiful side of the sport.

walshb

Boooourns wrote: »

Jesus this place got taking over last night haha. Even some suggestion that Khan is only just above Euro level!! The mist of hate decended down upon alot of peoples eyes towards Khan and even though i thought he was poor last night (McCloskeys awkwardness didn't help) he's easily in the World class level and the lad is only 24! He has a lot to improve though.
I did think his interview was poor last night and he'll have to stay in the U.S.A for a while now as the whole build up and including the fight was a complete disaster for him.

I'm sure McCloskey will realise he was getting outboxed last night and he could pull another big fight because of the way the fight finished.

If the folks that came on here just for this thread could try and watch the Juanma or Ortiz fight from last night then they can see the beautiful side of the sport.

You nailed it. And I said it, Paul's style makes for horrible fights. That is one reason that I was never sold on him. His style is very off putting. I don't think any opponent would "look" impressiveor good against him.

I could rarely watch him fight. All that shaping and posing and awkward throwing of punches. Last night it was exposed. He has skill, movement and can box (his way), but it's just not close to world class.

Khan's style is exciting, and he is an exciting and aggressive fighter, with flaws, but also with a lot of skill.

BTW, Ortiz has a really lovely neat style. Always thought that.

Boooourns

walshb wrote: »

You nailed it. And I said it, Paul's style makes for horrible fights. That is one reason that I was never sold on him. His style is very off putting. I don't think any opponent would "look" impressive
or good against him.

I could rarely watch him fight. All that shaping and posing and awkward throwing of punches. Last night it was exposed. He has skill, movement and can box (his way), but it's just not close to world class.

Khan's style is exciting, and he is an exciting and aggressive fighter, with flaws, but also with a lot of skill.

BTW, Ortiz has a really lovely neat style. Always thought that.

I mentioned before on a thread, think it was before the Peterson fight that i think he's a major talent but it was his mentality that let him down.
I couldn't believe the size of him before the fight, i was sure he was in trouble but it suited him perfectly. He's a great addition to Welterweight.

celtictiger32

i cant believe how many on here are still saying khan can unify the titles etc. khan won every round last night theres no denying that but he never hurt mc closkey, and i do think the longer the fight was going on the more flustered khan was getting and the more into it mc closkey was i reckon mc closkey could of knocked him out in the latter rounds as he was the one looking for the big bang.

walshb

celtictiger32 wrote: »

i cant believe how many on here are still saying khan can unify the titles etc. khan won every round last night theres no denying that but he never hurt mc closkey, and i do think the longer the fight was going on the more flustered khan was getting and the more into it mc closkey was i reckon mc closkey could of knocked him out in the latter rounds as he was the one looking for the big bang.

Yeah, and if it went 12 you would probably be saying, "if it was 15 rds Paul woulda knocked him out." It's a case of if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle.

As for unifying. Bradley is the threat, and really, he suits Khan. Small, and not all that heavy handed.

Boooourns

celtictiger32 wrote: »

i cant believe how many on here are still saying khan can unify the titles etc. khan won every round last night theres no denying that but he never hurt mc closkey, and i do think the longer the fight was going on the more flustered khan was getting and the more into it mc closkey was i reckon mc closkey could of knocked him out in the latter rounds as he was the one looking for the big bang.

People are saying he's going to try and unify them and personally i think he beats Bradley. Khan will lose a couple throughout his career but he'll be fighting World class opponents, i can't see McCloskey beating any, i'd love to be proved wrong but he relies on one big shot too often.

makl

Boooourns wrote: »

People are saying he's going to try and unify them and personally i think he beats Bradley. Khan will lose a couple throughout his career but he'll be fighting World class opponents, i can't see McCloskey beating any, i'd love to be proved wrong but he relies on one big shot too often.

Yea it would be great to see him get a chance another top 10, hopefully soon. I enjoy watching his fights, unlike many. Was thinking he's not too dissimilar to Bute. Could learn a bit from him. Think Khan will have to move up a weight if he really wants be regarded world class. He's a world class light-welter for sure, but give it a couple of years and a shot at a couple of big name welters to nail it.

walshb

Once the early barrage had failed to break the defence and spirit of the challenger, Khan seemed short of ideas with McCloskey also showing he possessed an iron chin.

Anyone who didn't see the fight would think that Khan was hopping off
Paul with heavy shots. So inaccurate. Khan himself best described it, peppering him he said.

King of Kings

i was in the MEN last night and while I was cheering on paul I fully accept that Khan was ahead.
BUt that said , Khan was throwing plenty of punches and not landing that many. I didn't see paul being that hurt - even that barrage just prior to the stoppage hardly rattled him. His legs were still strong.

To say that it's ok the fight was stopped when it was stopped was akin to saying to a team at halftime - you're losing so we'll just call a halt to it.

I think paul should have been busier but he deserved more at a world title shot than what happened last night. He is entitled to 12 rounds to prove himself unless he is KO'd and that decision was just wrong.
And that's the shame......

Nobody can say McCloskey couldn't have won. I remember Carl Froch winning with 10 secs to go when he was well beaten by jermain taylor.

**** it. I deserved more for my €100 ticket -

celtictiger32

walshb wrote: »

Once the early barrage had failed to break the defence and spirit of the challenger, Khan seemed short of ideas with McCloskey also showing he possessed an iron chin.

Anyone who didn't see the fight would think that Khan was hopping off
Paul with heavy shots. So inaccurate. Khan himself best described it, peppering him he said.

how did he pepper him most of his shots were missing mc closkey anyway. and if it had of gone the distance well that would have been that i would of had no problem at all but the fact is mc closkey was employing tactics that required the fight to go the distance. you cant account for something like this happening.

c1979

Here is a link to a youtube channel that has the full fight
http://www.youtube.com/user/superboxmma3

Paul may have got him in the later rounds. I actually think Khan is getting worse. he also didnt look as strong as he has been his last couple of fights

Rob113

King of Kings wrote: »

i

**** it. I deserved more for my €100 ticket -

Just on your last point. Eddie Hearn on twitter said he is giving any Irish fans who travelled to the fight a complimentary ticket to the next Prizefighter. Great gesture from him in fairness -

Link - http://www.twitlonger.com/show/9tcrjj


Edit- link doesn't seem to work. Working off phone so can't copy and paste. Anyone else follow him on twitter that can put up a better link?
@eire_boxing @djmartymac @Paul_Mccloskey @CelticBoxing RT I have had so many messages from Irish fans that came to the fight last night..I feel gutted for you that you came all that way for such a poor decision. I was delighted to hear that Paddy Power are offering refunds on bets which is a bold statement indeed. You provided one of the greatest atmospheres I have seen in this Country for and like Paul you should all be very proud of yourselves. I would like to offer anyone that made the trip a complimentary ticket to our International Prizefighter event at Alexandra Palace on May 7th at Alexandra Palace.Please contact frank.smith@matchroom.com. Thanks for all your support

colly10

celtictiger32 wrote: »

i cant believe how many on here are still saying khan can unify the titles etc. khan won every round last night theres no denying that but he never hurt mc closkey

Mcloskey is difficult to look good against due to his style, it's also difficult enough to catch him clean enough to hurt him

celtictiger32 wrote: »

and i do think the longer the fight was going on the more flustered khan was getting and the more into it mc closkey was i reckon mc closkey could of knocked him out in the latter rounds as he was the one looking for the big bang.

I think delusional is the only way I can describe that opinion. Khan looked relaxed and his timing improved as the fight went on. He was getting more success close to the stoppage than he was in the early rounds. The fight was heading for a 120-108 and thats if Khan didn't manage to continue to improve his succeess.
Before this fight you said Khan isn't a top 5 LW (despite not saying who the top 5 is). That says it all for me really

Boooourns

celtictiger32 wrote: »

how did he pepper him most of his shots were missing mc closkey anyway. and if it had of gone the distance well that would have been that i would of had no problem at all but the fact is mc closkey was employing tactics that required the fight to go the distance. you cant account for something like this happening.

Or he just couldn't land on Khan as he couldn't live with his speed. There's no shame on McCloskeys performance last night, Khan is just ridiculousy quick even though he had an off night. McCloskeys style is really odd that he'll be really good at Euro level but when it comes to World level he has to find a way to box more, i really think that.

12gauge dave

just watched fight and it was a funny old fight cant make sense of it

i thought mcloskey was poor offensively but very good at defending khans barrages to be fair i thought khan would have him stopped in 2 rounds but he didnt

the cut was not that bad and referee could of let them finish the round and see from there

khan was just throwing combinations in an unplanned flurry not picking shots at all!

disapointed at the stoppage for the cut mcloskey looked solid enough but was gonna lose on points!

my summary is that khan is the better boxer but khans nowhere near the level he thinks hes capable of and last nights performance cements that he is young can improve and maybe he had an offnight but ill stand true to my word he would not last with GREAT fighters he will shine against good boxers as that is all h'ell ever face as he wont fight pacquiao and mayweather will be retired before khan is ever worthy of a fight with him!

khan should be put in with mosley as a test for him on the ultimate stage but its too early too say hes great

section4

12gauge dave wrote: »

just watched fight and it was a funny old fight cant make sense of it

i thought mcloskey was poor offensively but very good at defending khans barrages to be fair i thought khan would have him stopped in 2 rounds but he didnt

the cut was not that bad and referee could of let them finish the round and see from there

khan was just throwing combinations in an unplanned flurry not picking shots at all!

disapointed at the stoppage for the cut mcloskey looked solid enough but was gonna lose on points!

my summary is that khan is the better boxer but khans nowhere near the level he thinks hes capable of and last nights performance cements that he is young can improve and maybe he had an offnight but ill stand true to my word he would not last with GREAT fighters he will shine against good boxers as that is all h'ell ever face as he wont fight pacquiao and mayweather will be retired before khan is ever worthy of a fight with him!

khan should be put in with mosley as a test for him on the ultimate stage but its too early too say hes great

Khan is not great and never will be, he is completely overhyped, its a typical english media\sky sports thing to make people watch him thinking they are seeing sometihng special, they get a british fighter a handy world title and then try and make out he is special, reminds me the llloyd hoineyghan time, he winds a world title and then defends against light welters and bums and is talked about as an all time great, while all the time avoiding the best welterwegiht Marlon Starling, a good world champ who beat Honeryghan easy.
Just watched the fight and the first thing that is obvious is that khan has no power, he never once hurt Mcloskey who kept moving forward all the time, and when the heads clashed McCloskey's body language was much more aggresive than khan who turned away slighly, it was clear than altho khan landed a lot he has no power, so much for khan,s power

he is ot that fast if he was he would not have had all the problems he had with mcloskey

he is not a naturtal fighter, he fights in flurries like a scared rabbit, he will not engage in prolonged punch exchanges because he can be hurt easliye and reactes v ery badly when hit clean and hurt, he is not a smooth boxer is is a;ways moving in case he gets hit.

he was fighting a guy who while not a bad european cehampion is completely untried at world level and khan was hesitant and fought very safety firsy, remember mcloskey was picked because he is not a hrad hitter yet khan still coiuld not relax.

he is not a very corect puncher and cant seem to relax properly to throw proper smooth combiinations all just quick unplanned flurriies and then out as quick as possible/

he will not beat bradley, who is fitter stronger both in body and mind, his only chance is to jump in and run all night, i know bradley does not hit that hard but you dont have to to hurt khan, just hit him consistently and he will get flustered and bradley has the fitness to finish him in the later rounds

colly10

section4 wrote: »

he is completely overhyped, its a typical english media\sky sports thing to make people watch him thinking they are seeing sometihng special

Well Sky didn't consider the fight to be PPV material, they planned on showing him on SS3, hardly blowing him out of proportion. Any of the sky commentators I have heard have said he has quite a way to go to be as good as Ricky Hatton.

section4 wrote: »

they get a british fighter a handy world title and then try and make out he is special, reminds me the llloyd hoineyghan time, he winds a world title and then defends against light welters and bums and is talked about as an all time great, while all the time avoiding the best welterwegiht Marlon Starling, a good world champ who beat Honeryghan easy.

He beat Kotelnik (comfortably) for the title, Kotelnik has beaten Maidana and in the mind of most has beaten Alexander, thats not an easy opponent but he is an opponent you'll get little credit for.
Since then he has fought Maidana (who everyone said he would avoid). He plans to fight Bradley next.
What more do you want, in my mind the only 2 fighters left for him to fight at this weight are Bradley and Judah and he's fighting one of them next.

section4 wrote: »

Just watched the fight and the first thing that is obvious is that khan has no power, he never once hurt Mcloskey who kept moving forward all the time, and when the heads clashed McCloskey's body language was much more aggresive than khan who turned away slighly, it was clear than altho khan landed a lot he has no power, so much for khan,s power

Based on 1 fight he has no power? McCloskey moves with the shots so he's not going to be getting the full impact and if your fighting a guy with alot of movement you avoid loading up and just go for the quick combinations.

section4 wrote: »

he is not that fast if he was he would not have had all the problems he had with mcloskey

Not fast? Your just showing your bias there

section4 wrote: »

he is not a smooth boxer is is a;ways moving in case he gets hit.

Hit and don't get hit, thats the science of boxing. You can stand there like Mayorga but that just makes you stupid, not a great fighter. McCloskey was the fighter that wasn't taking risks in that fight, how many punches was he throwing a round, very little, he wasn't opening up because he didn't want to take the risk

section4 wrote: »

he will not beat bradley, who is fitter stronger both in body and mind, his only chance is to jump in and run all night, i know bradley does not hit that hard but you dont have to to hurt khan, just hit him consistently and he will get flustered and bradley has the fitness to finish him in the later rounds

We will see, it's far from a cert for Khan but if you remove the headbuts and leaning from Bradley he's tailor made.

For all this overhype and easy route to a title talk could anyone who believes this post their top 5 light welterweights, it will be interesting to see how that's made up without Khan. I'm not saying he's the finished article by any means, he wouldn't be near my top 5 current favourite fighters but I just find it hard to listen to the hate

celtictiger32

colly10 wrote: »

Mcloskey is difficult to look good against due to his style, it's also difficult enough to catch him clean enough to hurt him



I think delusional is the only way I can describe that opinion. Khan looked relaxed and his timing improved as the fight went on. He was getting more success close to the stoppage than he was in the early rounds. The fight was heading for a 120-108 and thats if Khan didn't manage to continue to improve his succeess.
Before this fight you said Khan isn't a top 5 LW (despite not saying who the top 5 is). That says it all for me really

'due to his style its hard to catch him clean enough'??? you make it sound like thats a bad thing. when mayweather was hard to catch clean it was a masterclass when mc closkey is hard to catch its a weird style??. anyeway i doubt khan would of hurt him too much either way hes not the heaviest of punchers.

colly10

celtictiger32 wrote: »

'due to his style its hard to catch him clean enough'??? you make it sound like thats a bad thing. when mayweather was hard to catch clean it was a masterclass when mc closkey is hard to catch its a weird style??. anyeway i doubt khan would of hurt him too much either way hes not the heaviest of punchers.

No I never said that it's a bad thing (although I don't find it good to watch), it's a credit to McCloskey that he's tough to catch. It's hard to look impressive against a fighter with that style though

Snappy the Moose

celtictiger32 wrote: »

'due to his style its hard to catch him clean enough'??? you make it sound like thats a bad thing. when mayweather was hard to catch clean it was a masterclass when mc closkey is hard to catch its a weird style??.

But Mayweather has an effective counter-punching style.

Paul is a slippery customer but has nothing of note offensively, the minimal punches he threw didn't seem to have much snap imo. He is a poor man's Pauli Malignaggi and that isn't saying much.

I'm not trying to put Paul down because he did well to an extent, but the only thing the stoppage did last night was give him a tool to get another big name fight, and I hope he does.

section4

colly10 wrote: »

Well Sky didn't consider the fight to be PPV material, they planned on showing him on SS3, hardly blowing him out of proportion. Any of the sky commentators I have heard have said he has quite a way to go to be as good as Ricky Hatton.

has he been on sky before, was he on sky after getting knocked clean out by the first even money match he had. was he not on sky fighting barreara a ridiculous march made to try to save the golden cow.



He beat Kotelnik (comfortably) for the title, Kotelnik has beaten Maidana and in the mind of most has beaten Alexander, thats not an easy opponent but he is an opponent you'll get little credit for.
Since then he has fought Maidana (who everyone said he would avoid). He plans to fight Bradley next.
What more do you want, in my mind the only 2 fighters left for him to fight at this weight are Bradley and Judah and he's fighting one of them next.

my point is that khan is not great and thats the context i gave my answer in but anyway, khan matches have all been carefully selected, kotelinick was picked because he had no power. maidana a very limited puncher who should have stopped khan in the 10th. HE HAS BEEN KNOCKED STUPID BY PRESCOTT REMEMBER. he will not beat bradley, because in my opinion he is not good enough. he has been rocked by fighters who are hardly even british level, have you forgotten that. and i think there are a lot of fighter at lw who would beat him, in fact any top ten fighter who can move and box with average power will give him big problems



Based on 1 fight he has no power? McCloskey moves with the shots so he's not going to be getting the full impact and if your fighting a guy with alot of movement you avoid loading up and just go for the quick combinations.

Not based on one fight based on his whole career, when has he knnocked out a ranked fighter

Not fast? Your just showing your bias there

well why could he not catch mc loskey who is only a european level fighter

Hit and don't get hit, thats the science of boxing. You can stand there like Mayorga but that just makes you stupid, not a great fighter. McCloskey was the fighter that wasn't taking risks in that fight, how many punches was he throwing a round, very little, he wasn't opening up because he didn't want to take the risk

he was not opening up because he had a plan to take khan into the later rounds, it a common strategy in boxing. He may not have won later on but he certainly had no problem with khan in terms of power while the fight lasted, every time khan caught him he wa straight back in, when a fighter has genuine power and the opponent tastes that power, i can assure you they would not keep doing what mcloskey did


We will see, it's far from a cert for Khan but if you remove the headbuts and leaning from Bradley he's tailor made.

how is he tailor made, he is fit, smart, game, young, and fresh unlike the majority of khans opponents, and he is much more controlled than khan.

For all this overhype and easy route to a title talk could anyone who believes this post their top 5 light welterweights, it will be interesting to see how that's made up without Khan. I'm not saying he's the finished article by any means, he wouldn't be near my top 5 current favourite fighters but I just find it hard to listen to the hate

hate, what an odd thing to say, bias, i thik you have some issues my friend

i said khan was not great and never will be and that is correct. he has not got it and thats it, and that is simply my opinion based on my knowledge of the fighters and their records. purely objective

iluvcheese92

Cut or no cut mccloskey was well on his way to a lob sided UD defeat. Not to worry though, Mr. Hearn will have McCloskey back on his regular healthy diet of bums in no time. :rolleyes:

joepenguin

iluvcheese92 wrote: »

Cut or no cut mccloskey was well on his way to a lob sided UD defeat. Not to worry though, Mr. Hearn will have McCloskey back on his regular healthy diet of bums in no time. :rolleyes:

Either a ud loss or an upset stoppage for mcloskey. The man at least deserved to see out his game plan since he was in good condition.

rocco.

iluvcheese92 wrote: »

Cut or no cut mccloskey was well on his way to a lob sided UD defeat. Not to worry though, Mr. Hearn will have McCloskey back on his regular healthy diet of bums in no time. :rolleyes:

Dunne was behind on the scorecards against cordoba but eventuality knocked him out! Whats the point in having 12rounds with that atittude? Its a World Championship fight, a cut requiring two stitches should not stop it!
If Kahn had of been the one with the cut there is no way the fight would have stopped so pre maturely!

corny

section4 wrote: »

hate, what an odd thing to say, bias, i thik you have some issues my friend

i said khan was not great and never will be and that is correct. he has not got it and thats it, and that is simply my opinion based on my knowledge of the fighters and their records. purely objective

Thats it, is it? Theres nothing objective in saying 'Khan has no power' or 'saying he had a handy world title fight'. If you think thats objective you're a fool.

He outclassed Kotelnik (one judge had it 120-108 i think), beats Salita inside a minute (first time he'd been stopped), stopped the durable but featherfisted Malinaggi (only the second fighter to do so) and had that tough ****er Maidana gasping after a beautiful left to the body in the first. All this and he's still learning the game at 24. Open to improvement.

He can punch, he is quick, he's not hiding and he represents a clear threat to anyone that gets in the ring with him. If anyone disagrees with any of that you can just pass off their opinion as being influenced by something other than boxing. Not saying he's a complete fighter or hasn't a weakness (still think concerted pressure on his chin will yield results) but if you're gonna talk ****e about his 'many' flaws and just avoid his strengths then i'm afraid you're obviously biased.

walshb

Khan isn't Tommy Hearns; but saying he has no power is ridiculous.
He has good pop. His speed is so good that this is what delivers the power.
He is a good hitter. I would say 7/10 for power. Speed is 10/10

I agree that he is not all that smooth at times. He can be erratic and at times look off balance and awkward. BUT, he is still a very very difficult man to out box due to his speed and volume. And he has very good reactions. I noticed him countering the slick McClosley quite a bit.

When he wants, he can be quite intelligent in the ring. He is a very skilled boxer that still has things to learn and improve on.

The stoppage was a bummer. Ok, looking back, I do think the doc should have allowed the corner to treat the cut and allowed Paul a round or two.
Though, I think Paul was on for a pasting. He showed me nothing in 18 minutes. I can only go on this. And, is Paul a big hitter?
I think he is quite ordinary.

Lord Trollington

walshb wrote: »

Khan isn't Tommy Hearns; but saying he has no power is ridiculous.
He has good pop. His speed is so good that this is what delivers the power.
He is a good hitter. I would say 7/10 for power. Speed is 10/10

I agree that he is not all that smooth at times. He can be erratic and at times look off balance and awkward. BUT, he is still a very very difficult man to out box due to his speed and volume. And he has very good reactions. I noticed him countering the slick McClosley quite a bit.

When he wants, he can be quite intelligent in the ring. He is a very skilled boxer that still has things to learn and improve on.

The stoppage was a bummer. Ok, looking back, I do think the doc should have allowed the corner to treat the cut and allowed Paul a round or two.
Though, I think Paul was on for a pasting. He showed me nothing in 18 minutes. I can only go on this. And, is Paul a big hitter?
I think he is quite ordinary.

You say you think Paul is quite ordinary, I didnt see anyone building him up to be something he isn't. The same can't be said for Khan however.

I agree Paul offered very little in the first few rounds. But what did we see from Khan? Yes he had lightening quick speed but he was throwing combinations and landing very little. Paul's defense was excellent except for the clash of heads.

Pauls style is to keep it tight early on and then get more involved in later rounds. Now whilst he may not have went on to win the match as he would have had to knock out Khan I firmly believe he would have cause him problems.

Timothy Bradley is hardly shaking in his boots having looked at how a mucker from Dungiven made the next big franchise look an ordinary fighter.

Yourwellcum

The fight was scheduled for 12 rounds. Possibly only half the fight gone

Khan never once rocked McCloskey so how people reckon he was gonna knock him out I dont know.

Paul probably would of lost on points had the fight continued but to be denied the chance is what people are upset about. Also the arrogance of Khan to assume he would of won instead of showing a little humility in the face of a very controversial decision.

Cant understand all the love for Khan though. Nothing special. People here talk about a gulf in class between European and World level. Khan did nothing to prove that.

Hype is a great media tool

walshb

Yourwellcum wrote: »

Paul probably would of lost on points had the fight continued but to be denied the chance is what people are upset about. Also the arrogance of Khan to assume he would of won instead of showing a little humility in the face of a very controversial decision.

Arrogance of Khan? How about Paul? It was him who was making out he would have stopped Khan as Khan was gassing. Like I said earlier, there were TWO interviews after the fight.

walshb

whycliff wrote: »

Pauls style is to keep it tight early on and then get more involved in later rounds. Now whilst he may not have went on to win the match as he would have had to knock out Khan I firmly believe he would have cause him problems.

That is where I disagree. It didn't appear to me that Paul was causing any problems for 6 whole rds, so I think it's fair to assume that he wasn't going to change much. Ok, his style was awkward, but apart from that he was not at all bothering Khan in the offensive department. He wasn't hurting him, out boxing him, or even landing on him. He landed a handful of shots in 18 Mins.

Can anyone honestly see Paul landing the kinda' shots Maidana did from rds 10-12?
I can't see Paul unleashing that kind of two fisted assault. He just doesn't
have that kind of offense.

I just do not see HOW Paul was gonna' somehow turn this around and start
winning and bothering Khan. Just before the clash it was Khan who
was stepping it up and finding his range

Yourwellcum

walshb wrote: »

Arrogance of Khan? How about Paul? It was him who was making out he would have stopped Khan as Khan was gassing. Like I said earlier, there were TWO interviews after the fight.

Yes there was and Khan and his people were trying to make out at one point that McCloskey quit, now come on, how ridiculous is that??

walshb

Yourwellcum wrote: »

Yes there was and Khan and his people were trying to make out at one point that McCloskey quit, now come on, how ridiculous is that??

Like I said, there were two interviews.

Paul's camp were making out he was gassed and would have been Ko'd...

See, two sides here. Others did mention that they weren't sure if Paul wanted to continue. It looked like that to me when the doc and ref were consulting with him, AT THE TIME; but since, I will put it down to confusion.

Boooourns

section4 wrote: »

hate, what an odd thing to say, bias, i thik you have some issues my friend

i said khan was not great and never will be and that is correct. he has not got it and thats it, and that is simply my opinion based on my knowledge of the fighters and their records. purely objective

Yourwellcum wrote: »

The fight was scheduled for 12 rounds. Possibly only half the fight gone

Khan never once rocked McCloskey so how people reckon he was gonna knock him out I dont know.

Paul probably would of lost on points had the fight continued but to be denied the chance is what people are upset about. Also the arrogance of Khan to assume he would of won instead of showing a little humility in the face of a very controversial decision.

Cant understand all the love for Khan though. Nothing special. People here talk about a gulf in class between European and World level. Khan did nothing to prove that.

Hype is a great media tool

Just wondering have both of ye seen Khans fights against Kotelnik/Malginaggi/Maidana?

corny

Yourwellcum wrote: »

Yes there was and Khan and his people were trying to make out at one point that McCloskey quit, now come on, how ridiculous is that??

Not as ridiculous as you might think actually. It wasn't until he got back to his corner and they told him the cut wasn't that bad that McCloskey actually started to complain. Up until that point he'd accepted that stopping the fight was for the best, based on the doctors report apparently. Now obviously the doctor hadn't a clue and was a bit of an alarmist. Paul probably thought there was a six inch tear in his face:D but nonetheless, at the time, McCloskey accepted the decision.

celtictiger32

walshb wrote: »

That is where I disagree. It didn't appear to me that Paul was causing any problems for 6 whole rds, so I think it's fair to assume that he wasn't going to change much. Ok, his style was awkward, but apart from that he was not at all bothering Khan in the offensive department. He wasn't hurting him, out boxing him, or even landing on him. He landed a handful of shots in 18 Mins.

Can anyone honestly see Paul landing the kinda' shots Maidana did from rds 10-12?
I can't see Paul unleashing that kind of two fisted assault. He just doesn't
have that kind of offense.

I just do not see HOW Paul was gonna' somehow turn this around and start
winning and bothering Khan. Just before the clash it was Khan who
was stepping it up and finding his range

wasnt that what the op said? he did say he keeps it tight early on and then .... so of course he wouldnt be bothering him too much if that were the gameplan

walshb

celtictiger32 wrote: »

wasnt that what the op said? he did say he keeps it tight early on and then .... so of course he wouldnt be bothering him too much if that were the gameplan

It seems that folks are thinking that Paul just had to hang in and WAIT for Amir to tire (and then launch his attack). That is very presumptuous. If it was his gameplan then it was a stupid one.

CowboyTed

Khan was throwing the kitchen sink at him for the first 5 rounds. There is no question that he was expending the most effort and at times looked a bit novicey...

Do I think Khan would have won it yes but not at 7 to 1 which his starting odds were at. Khan had a lot more work to do.

The way some people are talking here you swear championship fights should be 6 rounds long and then we call a winner.

The thing is both Khan and Paul were not in trouble at that stage. Khan was ahead on the cards but he wasn't winning the round by much.

Saying all that I think Paul would have learnt more than Khan... If he works more on combinations he could have done Khan alot more damage.

One thing is Paul did make Khans defense look bad when he misses. If Paul capitalised more it could be very interesting...

One thing is it was a good fight and we deserve a rematch sometime towards the end of the year.

By the way, Roach and De la Hoya were disgraceful after the fight with some comments about it was for the good of Paul, he could got hurt... Paul showed nothing but pure class in his behavior up to the fight, he deserved more.

celtictiger32

walshb wrote: »

It seems that folks are thinking that Paul just had to hang in and WAIT for Amir to tire (and then launch his attack). That is very presumptuous. If it was his gameplan then it was a stupid one.

it was also very presumptuous of khan and his supporters to think he had the fight won before it even took place. and why was it a stupid gameplan?

walshb

celtictiger32 wrote: »

it was also very presumptuous of khan and his supporters to think he had the fight won before it even took place. and why was it a stupid gameplan?

Because if they did their homework they would realise that Khan is a tremendously fit and conditioned fighter. He has shown this in several fights.

Paul needed to get in and work Khan from rd 1, not from rd 7 onwards.
He couldn't get in, couldn't get his shots off and time was running out.

And, who is to say that Paul would not have gassed come rds 9, 10, 11 ,12?

Khan's fitness has been proved. You don't sit around waiting for the likes of Khan to slow down, especially when you are doing very little to aid that slow down. This is schoolby stuff that any decent trainer or camp should know.

What damage if any did Paul do to Khan in 6 rds? Nothing. Now, Khan may
not have done much either, but that is irrelevant, as Khan was winning and
there was no way Paul was going to take it on points. He needed the KO.

Dusty87

walshb wrote: »

It seems that folks are thinking that Paul just had to hang in and WAIT for Amir to tire (and then launch his attack). That is very presumptuous. If it was his gameplan then it was a stupid one.

But it was pure brains when ali did it.

walshb

Dusty87 wrote: »

But it was pure brains when ali did it.

vs. George?

Who threw more power shots in 8 rds than most fighters throw in their career, in very hot conditions, whilst being hit cleanly and consistently by Ali.

Khan was coasting. He was just keeping a step or two ahead without
killing himself, and without taking anything in return.

makl

Paul was never ever going to win on points. Ever. Not here. So why on earth would he come in with a gameplan to outbox Khan? Sure Breen says he will but who believes anythin anyone says before a fight. The only way McCloskey could win that fight was tactically outmanouevring Khan. And that had to be in the later rounds. Not 6 rounds. My own view is that he might have rocked Khan for a half a round in one of the later rounds, but probably would have lost on points overall. We're all pissed off that he didn't get that chance.

I watched Bute's Magee fight again there. While far better than Paul (movement, punch variety, and offense), Paul could well a few tips from him. I wonder how well Paul could box if he had the option of training with Pacquiao.

Who next for Paul is the big Q. Malinaggi?

walshb

makl wrote: »

Paul was never ever going to win on points. Ever. Not here. So why on earth would he come in with a gameplan to outbox Khan? Sure Breen says he will but who believes anythin anyone says before a fight. The only way McCloskey could win that fight was tactically outmanouevring Khan. And that had to be in the later rounds. Not 6 rounds. My own view is that he might have rocked Khan for a half a round in one of the later rounds, but probably would have lost on points overall. We're all pissed off that he didn't get that chance.

I watched Bute's Magee fight again there. While far better than Paul (movement, punch variety, and offense), Paul could well a few tips from him. I wonder how well Paul could box if he had the option of training with Pacquiao.

Who next for Paul is the big Q. Malinaggi?

I agree, but my point is that Paul at least needed to get to Khan early, and unload and do some damage. Khan was fresh, unhurt and had barely taken anything after 6 rds.

Also, Paul isn't heavy handed. All he could HOPE for was one hail mary, and I don't believe he had that or would have got that. Khan's chin and recovery are better now, as shown vs a heavier hitting Maidana, who also landed a lot more in the first 6 rds of their fight than Paul landed on Khan

Daroxtar

I've been a huge fan of Khan since the olympics. I rate him as highly as nearly any fighter out there but i have to say i was not overly impressed by him on saturday night. Paul made him miss with a shocking amount of punches and even when he did land with one punch in a combo he missed with the others.

However....Paul threw nothing at khan, seriously, did he hit him with 4 punches in 5 and a half rounds? He caught khan with 2 nice shots in the 4th and thats all i really remember. If all you're doing is avoiding shots then its easy enough to keep doing it. Joe Bugner.........
I'd love to think Paul was going to start throwing leather but maybe he should have given an inkling that he actually intended to. If he went for a brawl with Khan it would have been a whole different fight, who knows how it would have gone.

The stoppage was a complete farce, probably the worst i've ever seen. He was in no trouble whatsoever and he should have at least been given a chance for the cornermen to have a go at it. It was aworld title shot ferfuksake. Khan did himself no favours talking down paul afterwards. He seemed bitter that he wasn't able to land cleanly on an opponent he rated so lowly.

I'd agree that the controversy has given Paul a better chance of getting another shot as he has shown he has good defensive skills but probably not enough front to hurt or trouble a good champ.

CowboyTed

walshb wrote: »

vs. George?

Who threw more power shots in 8 rds than most fighters throw in their career, in very hot conditions, whilst being hit cleanly and consistently by Ali.

Khan was coasting. He was just keeping a step or two ahead without
killing himself, and without taking anything in return.

You have a real problem with world title fights being 12 rounds long... The thing Paul was getting stronger and it was mentioned that Khan was blowing hard before the fight was called off.

The thing is if fights went all to plan then why would we bother watching?

corny

walshb wrote: »

He couldn't get in, couldn't get his shots off.

I think people are just ignoring this fact, deliberately or otherwise.

McCloskey had no clue how to get his shots off and that wasn't going to change for the simple reason being he doesn't have the ability. He showed no variation to suggest he was capable of a knockout either. The only punch i saw him throw with any real sting was the left hook and he threw it in isolation often leading with it and even then it hit Khans guard every time. His right hand was non existent in the fight.

I don't think people actually realise how few punches McCloskey threw or, better yet, hit Khan with. In rounds 1,2 and 4 he probably landed under 10 shots and none of them would hurt my mother. In round 3 i think he landed a decent uppercut but that was it. Thats all he had. If he'd spent a fraction of the time trying to hit Khan as he was trying to avoid punches maybe the ref would have given him a chance. As it is, going on what i saw he was either there for the payday or he lacked any real ability at this level. I read a quote after the fight 'In order to let out a cry of 'robbery' you have to have something worth stealing.'

walshb

CowboyTed wrote: »

You have a real problem with world title fights being 12 rounds long... The thing Paul was getting stronger and it was mentioned that Khan was blowing hard before the fight was called off.

The thing is if fights went all to plan then why would we bother watching?

Blowing hard? Maybe he was. But so what. The guy has proved his fitness and stamina. So, because Breen and Paul say this it means it's true? Rubbish.

Fact: Khan was not killing himself in there. Was not taking shots, very little anyway, and was 6 rds to nil up. WHEN was Paul gonna' make his move?

I was pissed teh fight was stopped, but if we are hanging on an outcome where Khan gasses and Paul breaks him, then to me that is comical.

To break a well conditioned boxer you need to hit him for starters, rough him up, back him up and unload on him. I just cannot see hwo this was going to happen from rd 7 onwards.

Paul spent almost the entire 18 mins defending himself. I doubt that was suddenly going to change once red 7 began

corny

CowboyTed wrote: »

The thing Paul was getting stronger and it was mentioned that Khan was blowing hard before the fight was called off.

I find it incredible that you actually think thats true. How was he 'getting stronger'? He should have been as strong in round 6 as he was when the bell rang in round 1 because he did **** all in between. Also, Khan fought Maidana 4 months ago (don't know if you're aware of that) in all out war. Incessantly pressured, taking huge shots he had the fitness to go out and win the 12th, in my book anyway. What the **** makes you think 6 rounds of posing would make him tired?

corny

walshb wrote: »

Blowing hard? Maybe he was. But so what. The guy has proved his fitness and stamina. So, because Breen and Paul say this it means it's true? Rubbish.

Fact: Khan was not killing himself in there. Was not taking shots, very little anyway, and was 6 rds to nil up. WHEN was Paul gonna' make his move?

I was pissed teh fight was stopped, but if we are hanging on an outcome where Khan gasses and Paul breaks him, then to me that is comical.

To break a well conditioned boxer you need to hit him for starters, rough him up, back him up and unload on him. I just cannot see hwo this was going to happen from rd 7 onwards.

Paul spent almost the entire 18 mins defending himself. I doubt that was suddenly going to change once red 7 began

You beat me to it.:)