Amir Khan v Paul McCloskey - Manchester, April 16

nacho libre

celtictiger32 wrote: »

they just might have realised what was coming

So you really believe Khan was in danger of being stopped by McCloskey. I just don't see the evidence for it.

celtictiger32

nacho libre wrote: »

So you really believe Khan was in danger of being stopped by McCloskey. I just don't see the evidence for it.

obviously there is no evidence as the fight was stopped prematurely as most agree. but i do believe that that was the gameplan in the mc closkey camp, imo and i know some may disagree i think khan was looking flustered and tired i think he was getting frustrated at not being able to connect. i dont believe mc closkey would do as little as he did without a gameplan of that type. mc closkey was imo still fresh enough, unfazed and well poised to do exactly this in the later rounds.

el tel

I was at the fight and have watched the footage since. The quickness of the decision to end the fight greatly disturbs me and raises a huge amount of suspicion. Some of the things I’ve noticed suggest to me that Khan and his team needed an exit strategy from the fight once it went beyond a certain distance. As everyone knows, losing this fight could simply not be contemplated for the money at stake down the line with Khan is too huge – good bad or indifferent his ability, he’s a product they can sell. The build up was not favourable to Khan and all the monkey business with TV, fitness etc. probably left him below par.

Nevertheless they banked on this fight to end quickly, at least not much beyond 4 rounds. In the video interview with Freddie Roach on Boxing-Ireland.com he made this prediction of 4 rounds.

As the fight panned out, Khan was working hard, though mostly missing and not dangerously getting through to McCloskey or causing him too much trouble. He was clearly winning each round however was playing into McCloskey’s game plan which was to patiently take it into the later rounds and hopefully deliver the knockout. This is what McCloskey does and Khan’s camp will have known this. Khan will have become increasingly vulnerable to the big shot from McCloskey. Paul’s KO punches come from nowhere.

We’ve gone into 6 rounds and Khan’s game plan to win early had not materialised, Khan needs an exit strategy to kick in. The Rules of the fight are straightforward – a stoppage due to an accident would result in going to the scorecards. Khan was unquestionably ahead on the score cards. Thus if McCloskey is injured accidently and the fight is stopped – Khan wins. If Khan is injured accidently and the flight is stopped - Khan still wins.

At the instant Khan and McCloskey make head contact (I’m will refrain from questioning if the awkward movement of Khan’s forehead down and into the collision was on purpose as Paul’s camp have not questioned this), Khan immediately reeled back, pointing to his own head. Did Khan expect or hope to have been cut or injured himself? Did he see that Paul was cut? In any case, his reaction was instantaneous – clash of heads, indicate injury, step back, get to corner. I don’t recall that Paul reacted in a similar sudden ‘head clash – let’s stop’ manner. At this point Khan’s agenda has been set and everything else rolls into swift unrelenting motion. Everything that happened following the head contact appears to be seamless, as if it was coordinated or played exactly into their hands:

Khan is in his corner.

Paul is corralled in the neutral corner.

The Doctor springs into the ring (quite unprecedented. He is a RINGSIDE doctor). Did DeLaHoya prompt him to step inside?

The cut clearly isn’t that bad.

30 seconds left in the round.

Paul gets no treatment from his corner.

The briefest inspections by the Doctor. No wiping the blood with a towel. The Doctor motions with his arms and head that the fight is over. He can’t decide this! He can only advise. The referee ends the fight.

Meanwhile Kahn’s corner have taken his gloves off. Have they decided themselves that this fight isn’t going to continue even before its officially decided?! They are not taking any chances, Khan’s gloves are coming off regardless.

If there is any doubt that the fight could be resumed, Khan’s corner have already forced the hand of a decision to the contrary. The momentum is now unstoppable...the fight is over and there is now no means of reversing that.

Khan is held aloft.

Meanwhile, Paul has been wiped down by Eamon Magee, there’s no bleeding.

Did Khans camp plan or influence this outcome? Or did they merely capitalise on a small cut and set about having the fight terminated? Either way, they have the means and motive and the whole thing stinks.

walshb

celtictiger32 wrote: »

obviously there is no evidence as the fight was stopped prematurely as most agree. but i do believe that that was the gameplan in the mc closkey camp, imo and i know some may disagree i think khan was looking flustered and tired i think he was getting frustrated at not being able to connect. i dont believe mc closkey would do as little as he did without a gameplan of that type. mc closkey was imo still fresh enough, unfazed and well poised to do exactly this in the later rounds.

Looking flustered? Looking tired? Very subjective terms. You seem to be forgetting though that for 6 rds he was virtually undamaged, had taken nothing of consequence and also was not killing himself.

It's a big big ask to expect Paul to use 6 rds to launch assaults on Khan that would break him. Also, don't you think that just maybe, Roach and Khan could come up with a different plan? Say maybe take a round or two off, refresh, regroup and then use the last 3 rds to step it up again.

I fail to see how Paul would catch Khan for two rds IF Khan decided to take the foot off the pedal for a couple of rds to refresh. He didn't get near him for 6 rds. Add in the fact that Paul is much more comfortable when countering (on the back foot) and not having to force the pace. When Paul did take the lead he found it very hard to land, and was countered by Khan's speed and boxing skill.

Looking at any possible "evidence" available, I think a stoppage win for Paul was very very unlikely. Take into account his work rate in general, power in general, and his style, which is to counter and make opponents pay for missing. Add THIS to what actually transpired in the first 6 rds, where he landed hardly anything, where Khan was no at all damaged, and that Roach ad Khan could have taken two rds off the refresh. He's left with an absolute MOUNTAIN to climb. And IMO it's clutching big time to try and envisage a KO win for Paul.

Also, watch the work Maidana did (over 8 or so rds), a far heavier hitter than Paul, and still Khan stood up to it and was firing back in round 12.

As for the stoppage. Yes, it did stink, and was suspect, and it wouldn't at all surprise me if it was
something that was influenced. Not saying the clash was, that was pure accidental and could not
have been choreographed, at least not the way it happened, but after the clash it is quite possible
that Golden Boy used it to end this fight. This is pro boxing, I wouldn't be naive enough to think
that corruption does not occur.

nacho libre

celtictiger32 wrote: »

obviously there is no evidence as the fight was stopped prematurely as most agree. but i do believe that that was the gameplan in the mc closkey camp, imo and i know some may disagree i think khan was looking flustered and tired i think he was getting frustrated at not being able to connect. i dont believe mc closkey would do as little as he did without a gameplan of that type. mc closkey was imo still fresh enough, unfazed and well poised to do exactly this in the later rounds.

It's all well and good having a game plan, but having the ability to excute it is another matter. From what i saw, Paul, while he was able to slip much of Khan's shots early on, wasn't able to get to Khan. As the fight went on Khan was landing on Paul with more frequency- If anything, this would suggest Paul's reflexes were slowing due to tiredness.
For me Khan was winning fairly comfortably and was having an easier fight compared to his previous encounter, which was a 12 round war.
Now obviously I can't say Khan would have won for certain, but the evidence prior to the stoppage didn't give me much reason to believe McCloskey could gain a stoppage.

celtictiger32

nacho libre wrote: »

It's all well and good having a game plan, but having the ability to excute it is another matter. From what i saw, Paul, while he was able to slip much of Khan's shots early on, wasn't able to get to Khan.

wasnt that the gameplan?

nacho libre

celtictiger32 wrote: »

wasnt that the gameplan?

if so it wasn't much of a game plan, since he lost all six rounds.

celtictiger32

nacho libre wrote: »

celtictiger32 wrote: »

if so it wasn't much of a game plan, since he lost all six rounds.

i think if that was the gameplan, he would more than likely lose the early rounds. letting khan do the work and tire would generally give him the early rounds even if it were on work rate alone, hence leaving that bit in the tank for the k.o. in the later rounds. and i think everything was going according to plan until what happened and as i said you just cant account for that.

i do believe the whole conspiracy theory as it all went a bit too smoothly not even letting his corner have a look etc. and the swiftness of the end so to speak. the whole thing is still leaving a lot of doubts and ifs and buts so the proper thing to do would be to have a rematch.

colly10

el tel wrote: »

Khan immediately reeled back, pointing to his own head. Did Khan expect or hope to have been cut or injured himself? Did he see that Paul was cut? In any case, his reaction was instantaneous – clash of heads, indicate injury, step back, get to corner. I don’t recall that Paul reacted in a similar sudden ‘head clash – let’s stop’ manner. At this point Khan’s agenda has been set and everything else rolls into swift unrelenting motion. Everything that happened following the head contact appears to be seamless, as if it was coordinated or played exactly into their hands:

This place is turning into boxingscene. The crap in that post is pushing it a bit no? The fact the post has thanks just shows there's no convincing some people.

If he wasn't Irish you'd be probably be saying he was rubbish and did nothing but stink the place out. The chap could barely land a single punch never mind land anything close to meaningful enough to land a KO.

The stoppage is the best thing that could have happened for him, it leaves the doubts open for some that Khan would suddenly have gassed and McCloskey would have landed the punch he never looked close to capable of landing in the first half of the fight.

When I was a kid if I conceded a goal in a match, i'd say it was all part of my plan. I grew out of that a long time ago, it seems McCloskey hasn't.
The stoppage was a joke but hopefully we can keep somewhat in touch with reality

colly10

celtictiger32 wrote: »

i think if that was the gameplan, he would more than likely lose the early rounds. letting khan do the work and tire would generally give him the early rounds even if it were on work rate alone, hence leaving that bit in the tank for the k.o

Khan wasn't made work anywhere near hard enough for him to gass out before the end of the fight. The maidana fight was far more demanding as maidana walked him down for the whole fight. Khan needed to keep throwing to keep maidana off him and had to stay on his bike to avoid being caught.

Look at the number of shots he threw in the first 6 against maidana. I'd be shocked if it wasn't more than the McCloskey fight and he was still well able to fight in the 12th of that (while also taking harder shots in the late rounds than McCloskey is capable of delivering)

nacho libre

celtictiger32 wrote: »

i think if that was the gameplan, he would more than likely lose the early rounds. letting khan do the work and tire would generally give him the early rounds even if it were on work rate alone, hence leaving that bit in the tank for the k.o. in the later rounds. and i think everything was going according to plan until what happened and as i said you just cant account for that.

i do believe the whole conspiracy theory as it all went a bit too smoothly not even letting his corner have a look etc. and the swiftness of the end so to speak. the whole thing is still leaving a lot of doubts and ifs and buts so the proper thing to do would be to have a rematch.

Perhaps it was the game plan, but like i said it was a lousy one in my opinion.
There was nothing to indicate Paul could turn the fight around. Khan was in no way tiring. I got the impression if anything that Paul was perhaps the one starting to tire because Khan was hitting him more frequently towards the end, and anytime Paul tried to press the action he was getting countered effectively. What this suggested game plan also failed to factor in, is that Paul is more comfortable fighting on the back foot, having to set the pace is not something he's used to, and to change your fighting style against a fighter, who has the handspeed and boxing skills to punish you on the counter is a huge ask. Also, if Maidana, generally considered to be the heaviest hitter in the division, couldn't take Khan out over 12 rounds, what chance had a relatively light puncher like Paul?
That said we'll never know for sure, but it was highly unlikely from what i saw that Paul could have gone on to win the fight.



I still think the stoppage was a case of a bad decision by an official rather than a conspiracy on behalf of Khan's backers. Khan not winning as emphaticially as Oscar wanted is not a convincing reason to stop the fight. If there was a sign Khan was in danger of losing, then, yes, i'd say it was definitely a case of dirty tricks.

walshb

colly10 wrote: »

Khan wasn't made work anywhere near hard enough for him to gass out before the end of the fight. The maidana fight was far more demanding as maidana walked him down for the whole fight. Khan needed to keep throwing to keep maidana off him and had to stay on his bike to avoid being caught.

Look at the number of shots he threw in the first 6 against maidana. I'd be shocked if it wasn't more than the McCloskey fight and he was still well able to fight in the 12th of that (while also taking harder shots in the late rounds than McCloskey is capable of delivering)

colly, I am not even sure that folks are like this because it was an Irish fighter in there. I think it's more down to a disdain for Khan. If that was any other belt holder or world level fighter I think folks would just be honest and admit that their man, Paul, was not in the fight.

Personally I do not know Khan; and I think he is just a normal every day guy, with confidence and ambition, two things that are needed in pro boxing. So, at times he says things that come across as arrogant or superior, what boxer doesn't. They all do it, from time to time.

Listen to Paul and his team post fight. They were saying stuff that could also be interpreted
as arrogant and superior.

colly10

walshb wrote: »

colly, I am not even sure that folks are like this because it was an Irish fighter in there. I think it's more down to a disdain for Khan. If that was any other belt holder or world level fighter I think folks would just be honest and admit that their man, Paul, was not in the fight.

Id agree with that, the Irish fact that Paul is Irish does add to it but some are mad to see Khan fail. I cannot understand the hatred for him
The guy isn't even in my top 10 list of favorite fighters yet I find myself defending him nearly every time he's mentioned against biased ott comments

Spazdarn

Yeah I'm always defending Khan, and again he's nowhere near my favourite boxer but the abuse he gets is generally unwarranted.

el tel

colly10 wrote: »

This place is turning into boxingscene. The crap in that post is pushing it a bit no? The fact the post has thanks just shows there's no convincing some people.

If he wasn't Irish you'd be probably be saying he was rubbish and did nothing but stink the place out. The chap could barely land a single punch never mind land anything close to meaningful enough to land a KO.

The stoppage is the best thing that could have happened for him, it leaves the doubts open for some that Khan would suddenly have gassed and McCloskey would have landed the punch he never looked close to capable of landing in the first half of the fight.

When I was a kid if I conceded a goal in a match, i'd say it was all part of my plan. I grew out of that a long time ago, it seems McCloskey hasn't.
The stoppage was a joke but hopefully we can keep somewhat in touch with reality

Everything said about what could have happened in the fight had it not be stopped is speculation. It's speculation to say McCloskey could have produced a KO punch. Likewise it's speculation to say Khan would have KOed McCloskey. I 've done my speculating and you've done yours.

I would agree that had 12 rounds been completed Khan most likely would have won on points (he was doing the scoring and of course is the defending champ) but that too is speculation. There were enough rounds left for anything to happen.

Professional boxing isn't like snooker. The result isn't the best of 12 frames and as soon as someone reaches 6 or 7 they have reached an unassailable lead and it's game over. There are up to 12 rounds of fighting and a KO or TKO trumps number of rounds won. Quite simply McCloskey was denied this opportunity.

No one is saying he was denied the win, but the argument is that he was denied the opportunity. Denied by antics which appear unprecedented, irregular and dubious. No supporter of the sport should find that acceptable on any level, regardless of what they think the outcome would have been.

walshb

There are two discussions then, really; one I think we most all agree on, the fight was ended prematurely, denying Paul a chance to win. Second discussion is speculative, as regards if one thinks that Paul could win. I give him an extremely slim chance, based on a number of factors that I and others have presented. Again, just speculation.

corny

Some of you ****ers are living in a dreamland.

"He was clearly winning each round however was playing into McCloskey’s game plan". Just think of the logic of that sentence!

McCloskey being Irish and Khan being a wanker shouldn't get in the way of objectivity. Based on the only facts we're certain of (the 6 rounds we saw) Khan outclassed McCloskey. Everything else, the referee, Pauls masterplan, Khan gassing, golden boy, its all conjecture. I'd rather go with McCloskey was out of his league to be frank.

Just on Amir Khan again. I don't think he's that bad a dude tbh. I just think he's a not too clever lad trying to fit a profile and this invariably makes him look unjustifiably arrogant and cocky. I mean Degale, Hamed, Callzaghe, Eubank, theres probably loads more, they're all at it. Its just PR. Everything that happens outside the ring goes over my head tbh.

Chriscl1

Well said and if Henry hadn't have robbed us ireland would have won the world cup haha.

walshb

Chriscl1 wrote: »

Well said and if Henry hadn't have robbed us ireland would have won the world cup haha.

Yeah, but we were actually right in the hunt in that match. Holding our own big time.

gene_tunney

el tel wrote: »

I was at the fight and have watched the footage since. The quickness of the decision to end the fight greatly disturbs me and raises a huge amount of suspicion. Some of the things I’ve noticed suggest to me that Khan and his team needed an exit strategy from the fight once it went beyond a certain distance. As everyone knows, losing this fight could simply not be contemplated for the money at stake down the line with Khan is too huge – good bad or indifferent his ability, he’s a product they can sell. The build up was not favourable to Khan and all the monkey business with TV, fitness etc. probably left him below par.

Nevertheless they banked on this fight to end quickly, at least not much beyond 4 rounds. In the video interview with Freddie Roach on Boxing-Ireland.com he made this prediction of 4 rounds.

As the fight panned out, Khan was working hard, though mostly missing and not dangerously getting through to McCloskey or causing him too much trouble. He was clearly winning each round however was playing into McCloskey’s game plan which was to patiently take it into the later rounds and hopefully deliver the knockout. This is what McCloskey does and Khan’s camp will have known this. Khan will have become increasingly vulnerable to the big shot from McCloskey. Paul’s KO punches come from nowhere.

We’ve gone into 6 rounds and Khan’s game plan to win early had not materialised, Khan needs an exit strategy to kick in. The Rules of the fight are straightforward – a stoppage due to an accident would result in going to the scorecards. Khan was unquestionably ahead on the score cards. Thus if McCloskey is injured accidently and the fight is stopped – Khan wins. If Khan is injured accidently and the flight is stopped - Khan still wins.

At the instant Khan and McCloskey make head contact (I’m will refrain from questioning if the awkward movement of Khan’s forehead down and into the collision was on purpose as Paul’s camp have not questioned this), Khan immediately reeled back, pointing to his own head. Did Khan expect or hope to have been cut or injured himself? Did he see that Paul was cut? In any case, his reaction was instantaneous – clash of heads, indicate injury, step back, get to corner. I don’t recall that Paul reacted in a similar sudden ‘head clash – let’s stop’ manner. At this point Khan’s agenda has been set and everything else rolls into swift unrelenting motion. Everything that happened following the head contact appears to be seamless, as if it was coordinated or played exactly into their hands:

Khan is in his corner.

Paul is corralled in the neutral corner.

The Doctor springs into the ring (quite unprecedented. He is a RINGSIDE doctor). Did DeLaHoya prompt him to step inside?

The cut clearly isn’t that bad.

30 seconds left in the round.

Paul gets no treatment from his corner.

The briefest inspections by the Doctor. No wiping the blood with a towel. The Doctor motions with his arms and head that the fight is over. He can’t decide this! He can only advise. The referee ends the fight.

Meanwhile Kahn’s corner have taken his gloves off. Have they decided themselves that this fight isn’t going to continue even before its officially decided?! They are not taking any chances, Khan’s gloves are coming off regardless.

If there is any doubt that the fight could be resumed, Khan’s corner have already forced the hand of a decision to the contrary. The momentum is now unstoppable...the fight is over and there is now no means of reversing that.

Khan is held aloft.

Meanwhile, Paul has been wiped down by Eamon Magee, there’s no bleeding.

Did Khans camp plan or influence this outcome? Or did they merely capitalise on a small cut and set about having the fight terminated? Either way, they have the means and motive and the whole thing stinks.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

Please don't waste our time with rubbish like this.

walshb

gene_tunney wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

Please don't waste our time with rubbish like this.

Gene, corruption and cronyism in boxing is not conspiracy theory, it's a fact.
Now, in this case, the clash of heads WAS NOT a conspiracy, but what happened
directly after was not the normal way things should happen, or close to normal.
The ref and doctor did not behave in a correct fashion. I wouldn't trust any of them in there.
Golden Boy, or anyone associated with big money and big deals.

corny

walshb wrote: »

Gene, corruption and cronyism in boxing is not conspiracy theory, it's a fact.
Now, in this case, the clash of heads WAS NOT a conspiracy, but what happened
directly after was not the normal way things should happen, or close to normal.
The ref and doctor did not behave in a correct fashion. I wouldn't trust any of them in there.
Golden Boy, or anyone associated with big money and big deals.

Fair enough but surely theres no legislating for what happened. The referee was hardly briefed "ok in the event of a head clash.......".

You're right not to trust any of them but i still think the most likely explanation is the ref just made a balls of it.

walshb

corny wrote: »

Fair enough but surely theres no legislating for what happened. The referee was hardly briefed "ok in the event of a head clash.......".

You're right not to trust any of them but i still think the most likely explanation is the ref just made a balls of it.

Well, I don't think it's out of the question for the doctor to be quietly told that IF there is a cut, and this is the situation, please rule favourably for X.

Like I said, the actual clash was an accident, but the aftermath was very suspect. Stupidity on the refs part, and doctors? I don't know. I would love to know what the doctor said to Paul, and what Paul replied.

Regardless, I think Paul would not have stood a chance in the bout. Others disagree, that is their right.

And back to the post fight. People slating Khan. I just heard Breen, and his claims, that Paul made Khan look stupid, that Paul
looked like the champion, with his hands down low and making Khan miss, conveniently omitting the fact that
Paul lost every bloody round. Paul saying Khan was gassed after two rds, and that he would have taken him out.
Then Khan makes his point, and folks are jumping down his throat? Khan, the one who was 6 rds to nil up.

slapbangwallop

gene_tunney wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

Please don't waste our time with rubbish like this.

I wouldnt be so quick to dismiss the points raised.

Plenty of valid points raised.

slapbangwallop

corny wrote: »

Fair enough but surely theres no legislating for what happened. The referee was hardly briefed "ok in the event of a head clash.......".

You're right not to trust any of them but i still think the most likely explanation is the ref just made a balls of it.

Actually they should be briefed.

Also doctor and referee should be sufficiently experienced and know what EXACTLY to do in the case of a headclash and cut - especially in a world title fight.

makl

BTW, Paul could and might well have won.

Khan turned his back and walked away in round 4 - what was the score with that? ref moved in late, but mccloskey was fully entitled to hook round side of khan, maybe just not enough time?

Happened once could have happened again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

http://youtu.be/wIxk7w53li4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIxk7w53li4

...can someone embed that somehow?tks

celtictiger32

corny wrote: »

Fair enough but surely theres no legislating for what happened. The referee was hardly briefed "ok in the event of a head clash.......".

You're right not to trust any of them but i still think the most likely explanation is the ref just made a balls of it.

i dont think its beyond the realms of possibility that the referee was 'told' what to do in the event of...... it wouldnt be the first time a referee has taken a backhander

colly10

celtictiger32 wrote: »

i dont think its beyond the realms of possibility that the referee was 'told' what to do in the event of...... it wouldnt be the first time a referee has taken a backhander

And what would the breif be ... in the event that my fighter has won every round, has taken no meaningful shots and his timing is improving and the other guy gets a cut over the eye that may get opened up and obscure his vision then i want you to stop the fight immediately

walshb

colly10 wrote: »

And what would the breif be ... in the event that my fighter has won every round, has taken no meaningful shots and his timing is improving and the other guy gets a cut over the eye that may get opened up and obscure his vision then i want you to stop the fight immediately

The only thing I can think of is that Golden Boy was getting worried, why, who knows, but worried maybe that Paul was still there, unhurt and with a miracle chance to score the KO. Me personally and others, think Paul had next to no chance, but if we had so much money on the outcome, how sure would we be? anyway, if they rematch I would expect a Khan victory, and without too much bother.

corny

walshb wrote: »

The only thing I can think of is that Golden Boy was getting worried, why, who knows, but worried maybe that Paul was still there, unhurt and with a miracle chance to score the KO. Me personally and others, think Paul had next to no chance, but if we had so much money on the outcome, how sure would we be? anyway, if they rematch I would expect a Khan victory, and without too much bother.

So you're saying the referee was sent signals during the fight because GB were getting worried or he was told prior if Paul is still there after 6 do your best? I find either hard hard to swallow tbh especially given how the fight panned out.

walshb

corny wrote: »

So you're saying the referee was sent signals during the fight because GB were getting worried or he was told prior if Paul is still there after 6 do your best? I find either hard hard to swallow tbh especially given how the fight panned out.

Why would it have to be during the fight?

I said earlier that this kinda' situation may have been discussed prior to the first bell. There is a lot of money riding on a Khan win. Boxing has a history of
this kind of behaviour, where promoters and those involved can appoint certain officials and can sway a fight. It happens.

Anyone who has seen what happened and seen the cut has to think that
something went on, and think that it's MORE than just incompetency on the ref and doctors part.

cowzerp

Dusty87 wrote: »

But it was pure brains when ali did it.

Ali was dishing out hard and swift counters all the way through that fight, probably landed more actual clean head shot's, so to compare Ali v the most fierce opponent ever is ridonkulis!! Ali=McCloskey haha

colly10

walshb wrote: »

The only thing I can think of is that Golden Boy was getting worried, why, who knows, but worried maybe that Paul was still there, unhurt and with a miracle chance to score the KO. Me personally and others, think Paul had next to no chance, but if we had so much money on the outcome, how sure would we be? anyway, if they rematch I would expect a Khan victory, and without too much bother.

If how that was panning out is enough to get them worried then they would have been far too worried to put him against maidana (a fighter with a reputation of having a poor chin against a guy with a reputation for knocking people out)

walshb

colly10 wrote: »

If how that was panning out is enough to get them worried then they would have been far too worried to put him against maidana (a fighter with a reputation of having a poor chin against a guy with a reputation for knocking people out)

Very valid point, and Maidana is a fighter we have used as logic behind Khan
being able to go 12 rds at a fast pace and taking heavy shots, meaning he should have very very little trouble with Paul from rds 7-12.

So, who knows why the ref and doctor behaved the way they did.

BoxingIrel.com

cowzerp wrote: »

Ali was dishing out hard and swift counters all the way through that fight, probably landed more actual clean head shot's, so to compare Ali v the most fierce opponent ever is ridonkulis!! Ali=McCloskey haha

Ali-Foreman, Froch-Taylor I could go on.

To dismiss McCloskeys chances on stopping Khan is folly.

I agree that he McCloskey wasnt showing the fiercist of offences but they say that that was in their gameplan for the first half of the fight.

Most likely is that he wouldnt have been able to turn it around but the shadow of doubt hangs over the decision because of the dubious circumstances of the stoppage.

Which is a good thing for Team McCloskey and has glavinised his support.

McCloskey and Frampton to headline at the Odessey this summer!

walshb

BoxingIrel.com wrote: »

Ali-Foreman, Froch-Taylor I could go on.

To dismiss McCloskeys chances on stopping Khan is folly.

Folks aint dismissing, just finding it hard to envisage, and you cannot blame people, especially when you analyse what actually transpired in the first 6 rds.
Add to it all the other factors presented here by posters, and it is Mt Everest to climb.

gene_tunney

BoxingIrel.com wrote: »

Ali-Foreman, Froch-Taylor I could go on.

To dismiss McCloskeys chances on stopping Khan is folly.

I agree that he McCloskey wasnt showing the fiercist of offences but they say that that was in their gameplan for the first half of the fight.

Most likely is that he wouldnt have been able to turn it around but the shadow of doubt hangs over the decision because of the dubious circumstances of the stoppage.

Which is a good thing for Team McCloskey and has glavinised his support.

McCloskey and Frampton to headline at the Odessey this summer!

Agree with this, don't think he would have turned it around but this may actually help him in the future

celtictiger32

colly10 wrote: »

And what would the breif be ... in the event that my fighter has won every round, has taken no meaningful shots and his timing is improving and the other guy gets a cut over the eye that may get opened up and obscure his vision then i want you to stop the fight immediately

are you really naive enough to think that this type of thing doesnt go on in boxing...and other sports for that matter.

cowzerp wrote: »

Ali was dishing out hard and swift counters all the way through that fight, probably landed more actual clean head shot's, so to compare Ali v the most fierce opponent ever is ridonkulis!! Ali=McCloskey haha

i hardly think the op was comparing mc closkey to ali. what he was saying was the whole rope a dope thing that ali employed in that fight was similar enough to the tactics employed by mc closkey the other night thats all

walshb

celtictiger32 wrote: »

are you really naive enough to think that this type of thing doesnt go on in boxing...and other sports for that matter.



i hardly think the op was comparing mc closkey to ali. what he was saying was the whole rope a dope thing that ali employed in that fight was similar enough to the tactics employed by mc closkey the other night thats all

Similar?

I would say McCloskey is more similar to Ali than the tactics (in both fights) being similar... If that makes sense.

colly10

celtictiger32 wrote: »

are you really naive enough to think that this type of thing doesnt go on in boxing...and other sports for that matter.

Of course it does, do you really think that they'd choose to employ that tactic when their man is up in every round, has not been forced to work hard, has been caught with nothing and has just had his best round? I personally find that naive, the stoppage is much more damaging to Khan than McCloskey, khan was starting to have more success and the stoppage took away his chance to impress, it's more positive for McCloskey cause it allows him to say he was robbed and tell everyone who'll listen that his was just wanting for his opportunity to knock him out
You talk about using the rope a dope tactic, that involves forcing the other guy to work, I doubt Khan fought the first 6 rounds at a lower pace in a while, i'll check the punch stats in a while and see if he threw less punches than usual, he has also had to run in other fights but never had to in this one.

By the way, saying that was his plan A is laugable. Your basically saying that he went into the fight with zero intention of trying to win on point. So thats plan A, what if it doesn't work, what if Khan doesn't gass, your left with no plan B. Thats not consistent with what McCloskey said before the fight, he said you don't go in with A plan, you have to have a few and if one doesn't work you try something else. So if that was actually plan A what could he have changed to if it wasn't working?
He also said that Khan's fast but he's good at countering and what matters is whether Khans speed or his counters were more effective. I think it was pretty obvious which one was

celtictiger32

walshb wrote: »

Similar?

I would say McCloskey is more similar to Ali than the tactics (in both fights) being similar... If that makes sense.

no not really but anyway in similar i mean holding back tiring the opponent for the later rounds which i think he was doing just that until the farce.

slapbangwallop

So I was looking through my pictures of the week with McCloskey and came across this one - sure if it isnt Dr. Fraser himself, the very fella, on only from the same county as his mate Amir! Shur isnt dat grand eh!?

nacho libre

regarding the post fight interview:
Had McCloskey won in such circumstances and conducted himself the same way in a post fight interview i'd agree. You can be sure had Khan lost in such circumstance he'd have had something to say about it.
In any case I don't see how Breen's comments justifies Khan's. Khan should have risen above it as the victor.
Khan, as i've stated, is a brilliant boxer, but I don't see why people feel the need to make excuses for someone whose talent they admire.

makl

McCloskey v Prescott?

http://www.worldboxingnews.net/2011/04/mccloskey-linked-with-prescott-for-amir.html

walshb

makl wrote: »

McCloskey v Prescott?

http://www.worldboxingnews.net/2011/04/mccloskey-linked-with-prescott-for-amir.html

Would love to see that. Tough fight I'd imagine.

When will Khan rematch Prescott I wonder? Not saying he has to, but I would love to see it.

nacho libre

makl wrote: »

McCloskey v Prescott?

http://www.worldboxingnews.net/2011/04/mccloskey-linked-with-prescott-for-amir.html

I'd give Paul a fair chance in that one. Prescott has shown himself to be quite limited since the Khan fight, where he got lucky in my view. If Khan did rematch Prescott, i think Khan would win inside the distance

makl

makl wrote: »

McCloskey v Prescott?

http://www.worldboxingnews.net/2011/04/mccloskey-linked-with-prescott-for-amir.html

Prescott v Vazquez First, Last & Recap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BfxzXfm7Yw

(cant embed youtube in last while for some reason)

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

Would love to see that. Tough fight I'd imagine.

When will Khan rematch Prescott I wonder? Not saying he has to, but I would love to see it.

Never, a fringe contender at Lightweight has no business in with the #1/#2 Light-Welterweight in the World. Despite what happened previously.

McCloskey would do a job on Prescott imo, perfect fight for Paul to gain some positive exposure Worldwide aswell and try and get himself back in World title contention.

walshb

Big Ears wrote: »

Never, a fringe contender at Lightweight has no business in with the #1/#2 Light-Welterweight in the World. Despite what happened previously.

McCloskey would do a job on Prescott imo, perfect fight for Paul to gain some positive exposure Worldwide aswell and try and get himself back in World title contention.

As you know, I always felt that Khan was mismanaged in that fight a few years back; aged only 21 and in against a 24/25 year old who was heavy handed and could punch.

Khan has matured and strengthened since. He is no longer a skinny kid. Still, it would be interesting, and Khan
would need to be very very careful. Prescott, is still "bigger," I mean, taller and looks the bigger man too.
140 lbs is more Prescott's natural weight.

celtictiger32

walshb wrote: »

Would love to see that. Tough fight I'd imagine.

When will Khan rematch Prescott I wonder? Not saying he has to, but I would love to see it.

i think most fighters would want to have another crack at their conquerors even if its just for their own personal demons, probably be the same for the likes of andy lee too............ be a good fight for mc closkey to take, he should strike while the irons hot and get himself on the world scene. just watching malinaggi on tv last night he was decent enough but at the same time looked very beatable aswell.