Getting power outside to a shed

Kashkai

I've had a couple of electricians around to get quotes for getting power out to a shed for when I'm working with powertools outside. However, they appear to think its too much like trouble as they said they'd "get back to me" and despite follow up calls, I haven't heard a thing since.

I want to get power out to one, possibly two steel garden sheds. I don't know if this means routing from the MCB or if a spur can be taken off say an existing socket in the house by drilling a hole from the socket through the wall to the outside and running a cable to the shed to then connect up a couple of sockets. It would also mean getting a con-saw to cut a section through a path to lay the cable in and then to cover over later. Perhaps its this last part that's causing the reluctance? I thought it would be a fairly straightforward job myself.

Btw I need the power in the shed for when I'm soldering or using powertools like a jigsaw, drill etc. Is there a problem with the above that I can't see as it appears to be off putting to the electricians I've gotten in?

bertie1

Where are you based. It should be no problem Run an SWA cable from the fuseboard out to the shed ( size will depend on the length of a run) , & put in a seperate fuseboard in the shed for your tools . You will have to dig a trench to bury the cable ( 1 mtr) . I would imagine if you had the trench dug you would have no problem getting somebody to do it.

Kashkai

I'm based in Prosperous County Kildare. I've no problem digging a trench as I wouldn't expect the Sparks to do that. However, I'm not going to dig up the garden for a run of up to 20 metres and leave it open if said Sparks doesn't then show up. This happened to me a couple of years ago when I wanted to move my outside oil boiler away from the house. I dug a trench of 10 metres in length by 80cm deep for the new pipework which was then left open for 6 months as numerous plumbers wouldn't keep appointments to do the job. When my kids started falling into the hole in teh ground, I got the blame:rolleyes:.

Would the swa cable have to be laid in a duct for protection or would the armored cable itself be sufficient?

Bruthal

If your going to concrete it into the trench then its best to put it into a duct. If you were only putting in a socket and light then a supply from a socket would do, but its always better to go from the MCB board for various reasons, and have a sub board in the outside shed for sockets and lights etc.

Randyleprechaun

You'd be better running the cable directly from your house consumer unit(fuse board) all right, but if it wasn't possible(ie. if it's two storey with no access to the consumer unit from above), then in theory there is no problem with doing as you said and drilling out through from a socket in the house and running SWA cable(properly glanded) to your shed(s). You wont be adding that much load to the circuit in question, as you'll only be able to use one tool at a time.

Provided the circuit is RCD protected and the MCB for the circuit protects the cable, I can see no problem. If you want to put lights out there, the only drawback will be that if your RCD trips you'll lose lights too. That's where running the cable directly from the consumer unit to another smaller one in the shed(s) becomes the better plan as you can split the circuits in the shed

Bury the cable down at least 2'.

what distance do you have to go including all your sockets. I'll size the cable for you and that way you can get it yourself, dig your trench, lay the cable and then close the trench straight away.

Those steel sheds should be earthed/bonded also!!!!

Bruthal

I have always went into the MCB boards from below when wiring out to sheds. If its a dry lined wall its usually handy enough by taking off the skirting board in the hall if thats where the board is, and coming in from ground level. If the trench is in concrete it wont need to be down 2 foot, i dont think it needs that depth with an SWA through the garden anyway even in the grass. Different if its a cable out under a farmyard or something. But a foot or just under deep in the grass would be more than enough i would think.

paddy147

Pics say more than words.

3 core 6 square or even 10 square SWA run from mains fuse board in house,up through ceiling,down along the house (in between ceiling and floorboards),then down back of internal kitchen wall,out through wall,then run inside plastic tubing into a deep trench down the garden to garage at back of house.

Hilti drill and 600mm long 21mm masonary drill bit used to drill holes through kitchen wall at a downward angle and then at an upward angle into the garage itself.

This way,its unseen and out of the way and cant be damaged.

Fuseboard for any garage should allways be IP rated too.

If the garage is going to be used as a general workshop and will have lots of diy tools,laiths/welders etc,aswell as multiple lights and sockets then run 3 core 10 square SWA.Thats what was used for my garage.

Hope this helps.:)

paddy147

Outdoors and underground to garage.

Kashkai

Thanks for the advice guys. I live in a bungalow with the MCB right beside the backdoor. My thinking was that the new cable would route from the MCB up into the attic and out through the external gable wall and down to the footpath which would have to be dug up the three feet to the grass where I'd then dig the trench to where the shed is.

I'll measure the run tonight to know for sure how much cable I'll need. The plan is to use the shed for when I'm using powertools like drill, jigsaw, soldering etc. There will also be a chest freezer out in it. A light would also be required.

DublinDilbert

Getting back to the original problem/post It sounds like the electricians you got to look at it don't want the hassle of cutting the path, routing the SWA cable etc....

You could probably do all of the "dirty" work for them, have the cable pulled in, then just get them to connect up at the main board in the house and pop a small sub board in the shed.

Kashkai

Thing is, I told the sparks that I'd do all that, i.e. dig up the path/garden etc but they still had a problem doing the connecting up bit

paddy147

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Thing is, I told the sparks that I'd do all that, i.e. dig up the path/garden etc but they still had a problem doing the connecting up bit

Go and dig up the ground and do all the manual work yourself,and then go and get quotes off 2 or 3 other sparks.

If a sparks has no interest in doing a job,then hes not worth to speaking to anymore.

royaler83

paddy147 wrote: »

Go and dig up the ground and do all the manual work yourself,and then go and get quotes off 2 or 3 other sparks.

If a sparks has no interest in doing a job,then hes not worth to speaking to anymore.

In my experience electricians think they're too important for jobs like this, not meant to be a WUM comment, just my experience.

Their attitudes should surely be changing as work gets slacker

Hope you get sorted out

M cebee

royaler83 wrote: »

In my experience electricians think they're too important for jobs like this, not meant to be a WUM comment, just my experience.

Their attitudes should surely be changing as work gets slacker

Hope you get sorted out

don't know why you would think that


from an electricians perspective-customer's need to be aware when pricing round that that the lowest price on these jobs may skimp on materials
-cable size etc

-and may be on the dole etc

mind you a lot of customers already know this anyway:pac:

Bruthal

royaler83 wrote: »

In my experience electricians think they're too important for jobs like this, not meant to be a WUM comment, just my experience.

Their attitudes should surely be changing as work gets slacker

Hope you get sorted out

Total rubbish, sparks do electrical work, sure why not get the sparks to build the shed too, are they feeling they are too important for that also?

I have often dug trenches, but are you too important to dig it yourself and save a few euro?

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Total rubbish, sparks do electrical work, sure why not get the sparks to build the shed too, are they feeling they are too important for that also?

I have often dug trenches, but are you too important to dig it yourself and save a few euro?

Well sparks generaly do drill holes in walls and drill out floor boards/joists and chase walls and floors in houses to install cables or when rewiring a house.But alot of them run a mile when they have do dig a trench or anything remotely like that.Some of them think that they are too high up to have to dig a trench and maybe get dirty.


So what about normal people (your average householder) who wouldnt know how to dig a long deep trench out from their house to their shed and drill access holes from house to trench and then trench into garage.

Or even people who are maybe physically incapacitated,in some way,from doing any heavy or labour intensive work and cannot do it then??????

In fairness to Royaler83 and his comment,hes right to say that and express his opinion,as I had that same experience with 5 different electricians (last october) who I got quotes from do the trench,supply and instalation of the SWA from my house out to my garage.

Only 1 out of the 5 was prepared and willing to do the trench work,the other 4 said,sorry,we dont do that type of work.

They didnt want to know,the very second I mentioned about digging a narrow trench down the garden and drilling 2 holes.


So my comment to them was "ok so,thanks for comming out to see the job,goodbye and take care so".


Not provoking or starting an argeument here,just asking an honest and simple question with regards people who either wouldnt know what to do,or be able to physically dig a trench themselves.

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

So what about normal people (your average householder) who wouldnt know how to dig a long deep trench out from their house to their shed and drill access holes from house to trench and then trench into garage.

Or even people who are maybe physically incapacitated from doing any labour intensive work and cannot do it then??????


Not provoking or starting an argeument here,just asking an honest snd simple question with regards the above and your post too.

Well i dont think electricians feel they are too important to dig trenches. That was my point. I dont feel the need for a cable to a shed be 2 feet down anyway, its not a 10kv cable to a housing estate.

Access holes would be done by the sparks anyway once the trench is there. I dug trenches before, but some want to dig it themselves or get it done by relatives etc to cut down the cost. Thats what i have found anyway. But to say sparks think they are too important seems a bit over the top. I dont think many people do jobs so labour intensive that they are incapacitated either to the point they could never use a shovel.

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well i dont think electricians feel they are too important to dig trenches. That was my point. I dont feel the need for a cable to a shed be 2 feet down anyway, its not a 10kv cable to a housing estate.

Access holes would be done by the sparks anyway once the trench is there. I dug trenches before, but some want to dig it themselves or get it done by relatives etc to cut down the cost. Thats what i have found anyway. But to say sparks think they are too important seems a bit over the top. I dont think many people do jobs so labour intensive that they are incapacitated either to the point they could never use a shovel.

Yep,theres no way in the future anyone could be digging in the back garden or turning sods of grass or digging holes to plant stuff and hit the cable as its in a shallow trench.So hense my trench being a good 2 feet deep down and also encased in protective tubing too.

Also Im only speaking from my 1st hand experience of having to deal with 5 sparks,and 4 of them were not interested,even though they came to the job knowing (via phone conversation) that there would be some trench work involved.

I also deal with electricians on a daily basis with regards my job,and a good few of them will not entertain having to pick u a pick axe and a fork and shovel and dig a trench.They are not employed to do that sort of work,is their thinking and mentality.They dont and wont get dirty.

I see this attitude every day,and its sad to see it.:(

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

In fairness to Royaler83 and his comment,hes right to say that and express his opinion,as I had that same experience with 5 different electricians (last october) who I got quotes from do the trench,supply and instalation of the SWA from my house out to my garage.

Only 1 out of the 5 was prepared and willing to do the trench work,the other 4 said,sorry,we dont do that type of work.

They didnt want to know,the very second I mentioned about digging a narrow trench down the garden and drilling 2 holes.

Having a right to express an opinin does not make his or my opinion right. But when electricians say they dont did trenches, that means they feel they are too important you think? Why did you not dig it? Prefer to pay to have it done or you cant dig it, or you work too hard in your job? Digging a trench usually involves cutting through the path as well, then re concrete it. So some sparks probably just dont do that.

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Having a right to express an opinin does not make his or my opinion right. But when electricians say they dont did trenches, that means they feel they are too important you think? Why did you not dig it? Prefer to pay to have it done or you cant dig it, or you work too hard in your job? Digging a trench usually involves cutting through the path as well, then re concrete it. So some sparks probably just dont do that.

Why did I not dig it myself???

I wasnt able to,due to an illness at the time (construction related) and only for a friend of mine and my girlfriends comming to my assistance and helping out,it probably wouldnt have been dug and the electricians would have taken the easy way out and ran the SWA externally along a wall to the shed.

That is something I did not want done from the word go,I wanted the SWA burried undergorund and deep too.I stated this to all 5 sparks on the phone,they all said no problem at 1st,but once they turned up,4 of them said "sorry,but we dont do that sort of work"

Waste my time in the process why dont you all.:mad:

robbie7730 wrote: »

That was my point. I dont feel the need for a cable to a shed be 2 feet down anyway, its not a 10kv cable to a housing estate.


Is there a minimum depth required for digging a trench laying power cables under ground?????

Becasue I would much rather have a 3 core 10 square SWA buried 2 feet deep in a trench in my garden and also enclosed in protective ducting too,so it will be allmost inpossible to hit it with a fork in the future,if and when myself or my girlfriend are remodeling the back garden or digging up sods of grass or planting anything..



P.S- No concrete path in my back garden,grass/soil and patio slabs,thats all,and they were very easily lifted and then put back too.See picture above

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

Why did I not dig it myself???

I wasnt able to,due to a recent illness,and only for a good friend of mine and my girlfriends comming to my assistance,it probably wouldnt have been dug and the electricians would have taken the easy way out and ran the SWA externally along a wall to the shed.

Thats is something I did not want done,I wanted the SWA burried undergorund and deep too.I stated this to all 5 sparks on the phone,they all said no problem at 1st,but once they turned up,4 of them said "sorry,but we dont do that sort of work"

Waste my time in the process why dont you all.:mad:


Is there a minimum depth required for laying power cables under ground?????



P.S- No concrete path in my back garden,patio slabs,thats all,and they were very easily lifted and then put back too.

Well not much point arguing about it, i dug trenches, i usually run the cables around the perimeter in against the wall or fence about a foot down. I think thats deep enough and out of the way of future digging. If you get a swa and try hacking into it with a shovel you will find it very difficult to cut into it, and practically impossible to cut into it and make contact with the cores even from intentionally trying to continously with a shovel.

Lifting slabs and digging up the sand and re laying is by no means easy, after a while they may re settle, and guess who is to blame then.

I dont know about minimum cable depth in a back garden. But even a few inches down in a pipe would have to be less exosed than clipped to a wall.

A bit of hassle could be saved putting them a foot down in a pipe and wood planks over it with marking tape if you felt it was at risk of being hit by digging in the future. But putting them down 2 feet is not any way bad of course. No one can argue with that.

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well not much point arguing about it, i dug trenches, i usually run the cables around the perimeter in against the wall or fence about a foot down. I think thats deep enough and out of the way of future digging. If you get a swa and try hacking into it with a shovel you will find it very difficult to cut into it, and practically impossible to cut into it and make contact with the cores even from intentionally trying to continously with a shovel.

Lifting slabs and digging up the sand and re laying is by no means easy, after a while they may re settle, and guess who is to blame then.

I dont know about minimum cable depth in a back garden. But even a few inches down in a pipe would have to be less exosed than clipped to a wall.

A bit of hassle could be saved putting them a foot down in a pipe and wood planks over it with marking tape if you felt it was at risk of being hit by digging in the future. But putting them down 2 feet is not any way bad of course. No one can argue with that.

My job is construction related and I work with and along side electricians on a daily basis.I also know what hard and labour intensive work is,as I done it every day,since I started my working life,and Im not afraid of hard work either.8 hours days,12 hour days,over nighters,ghost runs,country work,overseas work too.

Im not argueing with you herer,but from my own professional working experience and now my own persoal experience as a home owner and getting power to a garage,alot of them to tend to think that digging a trench is not for them and that they are too high up to do anything like that and possibly get dirty.

Not the attitude to have,in this day and age,not the attitude to have full stop.:(

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

P.S- No concrete path in my back garden,grass/soil and patio slabs,thats all,and they were very easily lifted and then put back too.See picture above

I see you quote me here

robbie7730 wrote: »

That was my point. I dont feel the need for a cable to a shed be 2 feet down anyway, its not a 10kv cable to a housing estate.

But i actually said this

Well i dont think electricians feel they are too important to dig trenches. That was my point. I dont feel the need for a cable to a shed be 2 feet down anyway, its not a 10kv cable to a housing estate.

First one makes it look like my point was about the cable depth, sunday newspaper editing there:D

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

I see you quote me here



But i actually said this


First one makes it look like my point was about the cable depth, sunday newspaper editing there:D

I was in the process of editing (spelling misstake) and quoting you,as you posted your reply.

You got your reply posted before I was able to edit and resubmit my post.:)



To me,a power cable is a power cable and is live and dangerous,no matter what size or voltage it is.


So it gets protected and burried deep,regardless.
But thats just me and how I think.;)

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

My job is construction related and I work with and along side electricians on a daily basis.I also know what hard and labour intensive work is,as I done it every day,since I started my working life,and Im not afraid of hard work either.8 hours days,12 hour days,over nighters,ghost runs,country work,overseas work too.

Im not argueing with you herer,but from my own professional working experience and now my own persoal experience as a home owner and getting power to a garage,alot of them to tend to think that digging a trench is not for them and that they are too high up to do anything like that and possibly get dirty.

Not the attitude to have,in this day and age,not the attitude to have full stop.:(

Well you would know what would happen if an electrician digs a trench on an industrial site i presume? And do you think an electricians job is clean?

A lot of them think that didding a trench is not for them because maybe its a builders job. So whats the actual problem getting a builder in? Maybe builders wont wire sheds?

Dont forget i have no problem digging a trench. But i can understand why some dont do it.

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

I was in the process of editing (spelling misstake) and quoting you,as you posted your reply.

You got your reply posted before I was able to edit and resubmit my post.:)



To me,a power cable is a power cable and is live and dangerous,no matter what size or voltage it is.


So it gets protected and burried deep,regardless.
But thats just me and how I think.;)

Maybe, but hanging a picture in a living room can hit a live cable far far easier than an SWA can be hit even lying on the surface of the garden.

And a cable with a 250 amp fuse on it is far more dangerous than one with a 10 amp fuse on it, so it cant be said that all live cables are all the same.

spudington16

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

I'll measure the run tonight to know for sure how much cable I'll need. The plan is to use the shed for when I'm using powertools like drill, jigsaw, soldering etc. There will also be a chest freezer out in it. A light would also be required.

Sorry to go off-topic, but did anyone else get the feeling he's building a killing room?

Bruthal

spudington16 wrote: »

Sorry to go off-topic, but did anyone else get the feeling he's building a killing room?

For hostel 3 maybe:D

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

A lot of them think that didding a trench is not for them because maybe its a builders job. So whats the actual problem getting a builder in? Maybe builders wont wire sheds?.

So how come a sparks will chase a plasterboard or concrete wall in a house when rewiring,will pull up floor boards when wiring or rewiring and doing cable runs,will drill through floor/ceiling joists or stud walls and tiles when running cables????

But they suddenly wont dig a trench when it comes to wiring a garage??:rolleyes:

robbie7730 wrote: »

Dont forget i have no problem digging a trench. But i can understand why some dont do it.

I know you dont have any problem doing it,but you are one of the decent and rare ones,its alot of the others that have the big problem with it.Its their attitude.:rolleyes:

Anyway,have a good evening,good chat with you tonight.
Thanks.:)

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

So how come a sparks will chase a plasterboard or concrete wall in a house when rewiring,will pull up floor boards when rewiring and doing cable runs,will drill through joists stud walls and tiles when running cables????

But they suddenly wont dig a trench when wiring a garage??:rolleyes:

Some sparks get others to chase the walls if a whole house has to be done.

I know you dont have any problem doing,but its alot of the others that have the big problem with it.

I have found most wanted to do it themselves or get relatives to dig them as it saves a fair few euro.

Anyway,have a good evening, good chat with you tonight.
Thanks.:)

Have a good one paddy

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Maybe, but hanging a picture in a living room can hit a live cable far far easier than an SWA can be hit even lying on the surface of the garden.

And a cable with a 250 amp fuse on it is far more dangerous than one with a 10 amp fuse on it, so it cant be said that all live cables are all the same.

Thats why I use a cable/pipe dectector 1st before I drill,hammer or screw anything into any wall.;)

I never said that all live cables are the same,I said that a power cable is still live and is dangerous,regardless of its size.:)