Getting power outside to a shed

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

Thats why I use a cable/pipe dectector 1st before I hammer or screw anything into any wall.;)

A cable detector might not detect all cables especially when its switched off

I never said that all live cables are the same,I said that a power cable is still live and is dangerous,regardless of its size.:)

Yes but an SWA is exceptionally well protected, and inside a pipe its even more so, i mean what are you going to use in your garden which will present a danger hitting it a foot down?

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Yes but an SWA is exceptionally well protected, and inside a pipe its even more so, i mean what are you going to use in your garden which will present a danger hitting it a foot down?

Well planting a tree or 2 for starters,putting in some raised flower beds with either railway sleepers or brickwork,turning/rotivating the garden with a petrol powered rotivator,also digging in manuer and compost is also another factor.Installing a water feature/small pond area too.

My girlfriend is a fully qualified horticulturist and really like her gardening too.;)

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

Well planting a tree or 2 for starters,putting in some raised flower beds with either railway sleepers or brickwork,turning/rotivating the garden and digging in manuer and compost is also another factor

My girlfriend is a qualified horticluturalist and really like her gardening too.;)

Well as i said i usually run them in against the perimeter about a foot down. Does just fine. You must be on a farm there:pac:

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well as i said i usually run them in against the perimeter about a foot down. Does just fine. You must be on a farm there:pac:

I will be soon,with the designs and plans she has for the house,gardens and other aspects.:)

paddy147

spudington16 wrote: »

Sorry to go off-topic, but did anyone else get the feeling he's building a killing room?

Could be a mechanic or metal/wood worker,who also likes to drink lots tea and cofee and needs a fridge/freezer for his milk and his food for his lunch breaks.;)

Or........it could be the other.:pac: (joking)

Bruthal

Anyway like i said, nothing wrong with it 2 foot down, how would there be. But in a pipe a foot down its near bullet proof for most gardens. Around the edge where possible and it keeps it out of the way.

Anyway after 24 years of electrical i think i`d prefer digging trenches at this stage. Anyone that says its a clean job should crawl around a few attics. A mugs game plane and simple. And i do mostly industrial.

the_syco

Couple of things:
Your average pitchfork would go down a foot. As the ground may be hard, you'd force it down with your foot. So unless you, or anyone in your house don't plan on doing any work in the garden near the where the wiring is, have it at a good depth.

Try to have it on it's own separate switch, on the main fuseboard thing, as it makes finding it been the cause for trips easier to pinpoint. The shed hear has caused a few trips in the past, due to leaks in the shed, etc.

Digging a lawn sounds easy, except that going down more than a foot is hard work, going down more than a foot will usually give you rusbbish from the house (when digging deep out the back lawn, came across a lot of filler, tiles, bits of plastic bags, cable, tubing, etc, that were from the builders of the house, some 30 years ago. Unless you know the layout; it's may be more work then it's worth at times.

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Anyway after 24 years of electrical i think i`d prefer digging trenches at this stage. Anyone that says its a clean job should crawl around a few attics. A mugs game plane and simple. And i do mostly industrial.

Same here,tight horrible attic spaces with dust from old insylation and cob webs galore (like a movie scene from an Indiana Jones film).

Labour intensive,dirty and office,commercial/industrial and site based job for me too.

Try working in and walking through the underground pipe newtork of the new waste water treatment plant down in Dublin docks,or crawling on hands and knees 2 miles through the underground services pipes under Dublin Airport (Terminal 2 into Terminal 1 into the old original white airport building and then around to Team Aer Lingus hanger) in 45 degree C heat tempuratures when all the plumbing/heating pipes are a foot away from your face.Oh and a few nice big rats too,just for company.


So I know exactly what you are saying with regards your post above.:)

Bruthal

the_syco wrote: »

Couple of things:
Your average pitchfork would go down a foot. As the ground may be hard, you'd force it down with your foot. So unless you, or anyone in your house don't plan on doing any work in the garden near the where the wiring is, have it at a good depth.

Try to have it on it's own separate switch, on the main fuseboard thing, as it makes finding it been the cause for trips easier to pinpoint. The shed hear has caused a few trips in the past, due to leaks in the shed, etc.

Digging a lawn sounds easy, except that going down more than a foot is hard work, going down more than a foot will usually give you rusbbish from the house (when digging deep out the back lawn, came across a lot of filler, tiles, bits of plastic bags, cable, tubing, etc, that were from the builders of the house, some 30 years ago. Unless you know the layout; it's may be more work then it's worth at times.

It is more work than its worth, thats why sparks wont do it amongst other things, its hard enough to get the money for the wiring part in most cases without adding in the trench price which will be more work than the wiring.

Bruthal

the_syco wrote: »

Try to have it on it's own separate switch, on the main fuseboard thing, as it makes finding it been the cause for trips easier to pinpoint. The shed hear has caused a few trips in the past, due to leaks in the shed, etc.

Well its not really to make faults easier to find that its preferable to wire its own circuit, as putting a double pole isolator on the cable out if it was wired from a socket would show or eliminate the shed as a fault source.

Its preferable as it allows a sub board to be used in the shed and reduces the chance of the shed tripping circuits in the house, and gives the shed more diversity with its own seperate protected circuits possible with the sub board with its own sub main.

Merch

I'll be doing this in a few months myself, can i get some clarification.

I was planning on using 10sq SWA out to my shed
Paddy 147 did you bring the SWA up the wall in metal conduit inside your shed? (will 10sq SWA fit in conduit?)

Also, when I connect to the main consumer unit, would I have to put that on an RCD and/or MCB at the main consumer unit end to protect the cable or anyone that might (but very unlikely dig it up?) and then have a sub consumer unit in the shed?

It just seems if the wiring goes to a shed board and if connected direct to the mains, there is no protection if it got damaged between the main consumer unit and the shed.

So whats the best way to connect? MCB (at main consumer end) - SWA -(Shed consumer unit with RCD and socket/light CB's)?

paddy147

Merch wrote: »

I'll be doing this in a few months myself, can i get some clarification.

I was planning on using 10sq SWA out to my shed
Paddy 147 did you bring the SWA up the wall in metal conduit inside your shed? (will 10sq SWA fit in conduit?)

Also, when I connect to the main consumer unit, would I have to put that on an RCD and/or MCB at the main consumer unit end to protect the cable or anyone that might (but very unlikely dig it up?) and then have a sub consumer unit in the shed?

It just seems if the wiring goes to a shed board and if connected direct to the mains, there is no protection if it got damaged between the main consumer unit and the shed.

So whats the best way to connect? MCB (at main consumer end) - SWA -(Shed consumer unit with RCD and socket/light CB's)?

Yep,3 core 10 square SWA fits into 25mm steel conduit just nicely.:)
3 core 10 square SWA is 19mm thick so,25mm steel conduit allows for feeding the SWA through it.

Mains house fuseboard and also IP rated garage fuse board is also protected,so if the garage trips out,then the house doesnt.

Merch

paddy147 wrote: »

Yep,3 core 10 square SWA fits into 25mm steel conduit just nicely.:)
3 core 10 square SWA is 19mm thick so,25mm steel conduit allows for feeding the SWA through it.

Mains house fuseboard and also IP rated garage fuse board is also protected,so if the garage trips out,then the house doesnt.

So you have an RCD/MCB at the house end and an RCD/MCB's at the shed end in an IP rated board?

Nice looking job, do you have any pics of the roof on both sides too

paddy147

Merch wrote: »

Nice looking job, do you have any pics of the roof on both sides too

Roof is sloped/lean to roof with tile effect brown non drip steel cladding,to match and tie in with the colour of the house tiles.I also had Daltex Ultra breathable roofing membrane fitted under the non drip cladding,just for piece of mind.

Merch

paddy147 wrote: »

Roof is sloped/lean to roof with tile effect brown non drip steel cladding,to match and tie in with the colour of the house tiles.I also had Daltex Ultra breathable roofing membrane fitted under the non drip cladding,just for piece of mind.

I was thinking of tiling to match the house, but the cladding looks ok, builders providers?

Bruthal

Merch wrote: »

So you have an RCD/MCB at the house end and an RCD/MCB's at the shed end in an IP rated board?

You wont have an RCD at the house end in the MCB board, only an MCB, a 40 amp one usually does for that.

cast_iron

the_syco wrote: »

Digging a lawn sounds easy, except that going down more than a foot is hard work, going down more than a foot will usually give you rusbbish from the house (when digging deep out the back lawn, came across a lot of filler, tiles, bits of plastic bags, cable, tubing, etc, that were from the builders of the house, some 30 years ago. Unless you know the layout; it's may be more work then it's worth at times.

Most electricians won't get into the business of digging trenches, and with good reason too. While a bit of a trench might seem like just a bit of hard, dirty work, there's more to it than that.
Possible water mains, gas mains, electric mains, large stones, bedrock etc. are unforeseen problems that may be encountered.

Your average electrician will not have the necessary equipment to handle all these problems with ease. Your average builder will. Detection meters, mini-diggers, con saws, rock breakers may all be required to get the job done properly and efficiently. That's why it's really a job for a builder rather than an electrician.

A builder can get around any major snags that may pop up with relative ease and minimal extra cost and offer a good price as he's well catered for that sort of work. It would be much more difficult for an electrician to give a good price when potentially problematic groundwork has to be priced in.

M cebee

no harm to bury it well-but a SWA glanded properly on the supply side isn't a major hazard

i've cut through live ones with the hacksaw by mistake

- 3-phase and a SP one on a B32amp recently-careless but just a bang

pvc/pvc cables buried randomly in the wall ar more of a hazard

as the various wiring rules here and in the UK show

Merch

robbie7730 wrote: »

You wont have an RCD at the house end in the MCB board, only an MCB, a 40 amp one usually does for that.

Thanks, thats what I was looking for

JRant

Hi all,

although none of you are technically wrong, you are all over engineering the problem. You will need to run a cable from from your main fuse board, 6sq NYM/J through the house and SWA outside is plenty if the run is around 50/60 meters. Once outside SWA does not need any extra covering. You could run it along a wall or fence quite easily and save yourself the hassle of digging up your garden, it certainly does not need conduit. If you do bury it 500mm is the required depth and it then has to be covered with a yellow marker and covered in sand.

By Paddy147's reckoning why not just get a builder in and ask him why he wont run the electrical cable after he has the trench dug? Sure by your logic he should be able to do everything.

Bruthal

JRant wrote: »

Hi all,

although none of you are technically wrong, you are all over engineering the problem. You will need to run a cable from from your main fuse board, 6sq NYM/J through the house and SWA outside is plenty if the run is around 50/60 meters. Once outside SWA does not need any extra covering. You could run it along a wall or fence quite easily and save yourself the hassle of digging up your garden, it certainly does not need conduit. If you do bury it 500mm is the required depth and it then has to be covered with a yellow marker and covered in sand.

By Paddy147's reckoning why not just get a builder in and ask him why he wont run the electrical cable after he has the trench dug? Sure by your logic he should be able to do everything.

Where is the over engineering? If people want the cable buried then clipping along the fence is not much use.

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

no harm to bury it well-but a SWA glanded properly on the supply side isn't a major hazard

i've cut through live ones with the hacksaw by mistake

- 3-phase and a SP one on a B32amp recently-careless but just a bang

pvc/pvc cables buried randomly in the wall ar more of a hazard

as the various wiring rules here and in the UK show

Yea i actually cut through them live by accident with metal hacksaw in hand and all, same result, tripped breaker and thats it. No major problem once the steel armour is properly earthed.
The cables in the wall in the house i mentioned too, definitely more of a hazzard there.

paddy147

JRant wrote: »

Hi all,

although none of you are technically wrong, you are all over engineering the problem. You will need to run a cable from from your main fuse board, 6sq NYM/J through the house and SWA outside is plenty if the run is around 50/60 meters. Once outside SWA does not need any extra covering. You could run it along a wall or fence quite easily and save yourself the hassle of digging up your garden, it certainly does not need conduit. If you do bury it 500mm is the required depth and it then has to be covered with a yellow marker and covered in sand.

By Paddy147's reckoning why not just get a builder in and ask him why he wont run the electrical cable after he has the trench dug? Sure by your logic he should be able to do everything.

Sorry,but I have to reply back to your referal of me and my posts.

I work in the construction industry and am also IT based and work around and with alot of electricians on a daily basis.

I have seen power cable and SWA run both externally above ground (clipped to walls) and also burried well deep down in a trench for various safety reasons.Ive seen this in both massive constructuion sites (Intel,Dublin Airport,Fortis Bank and Point Village/02 projects and also in commercial office blocks and public hospitals too.

Me personally,I WANTED my SWA burried under ground for several very important and valid reasons,(please read my posts above to see the reasons).


Now,my point is that,if I tell and inform an electricain from the very word go,that trench work is involved,and he says no problem to me,but then changes his mind and tells me "sorry,but we dont do that sort of thing",then I have every right to be a bit pi55ed off at the sparks for wasting my time,from the word go

I work in the construction industry/IT sector too,and I often have to do jobs that wouldnt be normally done by me.Drilling through RSJ,s concrete walls,digging trenches,doing some concreting and patching work,driving automatic cherrypickers and access towers.

When the client informs me from the word go of what needs to be done,I dont tell them at 1st,yeah no problem,but then at the last second,sorry but I dont do that sort of thing.I know what may or may not be involved and it comes as part of the job and work.A job and work that Im happy and greatfull to have.

Its called diversifying and multitasking to get the specific job that you are being asked and payed to do,DONE and COMPLETED.

And not to be wasting the clients/customers time.That the difference.




P.S-And its not "over engineerd" either,its called being sensible and safe too,with regards the future.And its much safer and better than being "under engineered".

paddy147

Merch wrote: »

I was thinking of tiling to match the house, but the cladding looks ok, builders providers?

Got mine from Skyclad in Co, Westmeath,they made it to exact measurements given to them and cut exactly to the length required too.:)

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

Sorry,but I have to reply back to your referal of me and my posts.

I work in the construction industry and am also IT based and work around and with alot of electricians on a daily basis.

I have seen power cable and SWA run both externally above ground (clipped to walls) and also burried well deep down in a trench for various safety reasons.Ive seen this in both massive constructuion sites (Intel,Dublin Airport,Fortis Bank and Point Village/02 projects and also in commercial office blocks and public hospitals too.

Me personally,I WANTED my SWA burried under ground for several very important and valid reasons,(please read my posts above to see the reasons).


No my point is that,if I tell and inform an electricain from the very word go,that trench work is involved,and he says no problem to me,but then changes his mind and tells me "sorry,but we dont do that sort of thing",then I have every right to be a bit pi55ed off at the sparks for wasting my time,from the word go

I work in the construction indusrty/IT sector too,and I often have to do jobs that wouldnt be normally done by me.Drilling through RSJ,s concrete walls,digging trenches,doing some concreting and patching work,driving automatic cherrypickers and access towers

Its called diversifying and multitasking to get the specific job that you are being asked and payed to do,DONE and COMPLETED.

And not to be wasting the clients/customers time.That the difference.

Thats all well and good, but either tell us either your annoyed at the particular sparks who said they would dig the trench, then said they wont, or at sparks in general who do not take on digging work. Is it one or the other or both your not happy with?

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Thats all well and good, but either tell us either your annoyed at the particular sparks who said they would dig the trench, then said they wont, or at sparks in general who do not take on digging work. Is it one or the other or both your not happy with?

Yeah,I was annoyed with 4 out of the 5 sparks that wouldnt dig a trench,when they came to my house,even though they all knew on the phone that there was a trenh of about 30 feet to be dug and all said no problem.So fcuk them,they wasted my time from the word go.

But I do know quite a few sparks who think they are too high up to even lift a shovel or a fork,that they wouldnt even entertain getting their lovely snickers trousers or jacket one bit dirty.Even on some of the large building sites,they have had this attitude.


Oh,and Im 14 years working on building sites and in large multi national companies and hospitals here in Ireland,Northern Ireland and the UK too,with regards my job.



You get stuck in,you get dirty,you work hard and you do the job,and diversify and multitask too,if and when you need to and have to,to get your job done.

Simple as that.

paddy147

I,ll leave it at that,as its going way off topic now.

Theres good and bad in EVERY PROFESSION.

Lets not take away from the GOOD trades people here.

Thanks.:)

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

ywahnI was annoyed with 4 out of the 5 sparks that wouldnt dig a trench,when they came to my house,even though they all knew on the phone that there was a trenh of about 30 feet to be dug and all said no problem.

But I do know quite a few sparks who think thay are too high up to even lift a shovel or a fork,that they wouldnt even entertain getting their lovely snickers trousers or jacket one bit dirty.Even on some of the large building sites,they have had this attitude.

That may be, there will always be people who think they are above some jobs, or above others, thats life. But i actually dont think digging a trench is a sparks job.

Oh,and Im 14 years working on building sites and in large multi national companies and hospitals here in Ireland,Northern Ireland and the UK too,with regards my job.

Well im 20 years on them as a sparks although about 5 years away from them now, and i dont think i seen a sparks doing any digging on an industrial site because it would not be his job. I dont think the builders would be happy if a sparks started digging a trench as far as i can see anyway. It would not be allowed on a construction site unless im mistaken which is very possible of course.

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

I,ll leave it at that,as its going way off topic now.

Theres good and bad in EVERY PROFESSION.

Lets not take away from the GOOD trades people here.

Thanks.:)

Well i think your wrong there, a sparks that does not dig trenches is a bad tradesman you think? Very wrong that statement in my opinion at least.

M cebee

don't think i've ever included for digging surely

but they did say they'd do it:P