Spurs V Manchester United K.O. 16:10 Sky Sports

Headshot

Kimsang wrote: »

It seems most have problems reading English... Not much I can do about that!

But suggesting raf as the best RB in the league is just plain crazy. He has a lot to prove since he hasn't played many games. He can't defend to save his life, yes he is good attacking but so is Glen Johnson and I don't see anyone calling him the best (anymore ). [edit i guess you''d have to call him a left back now? :P)

To re-iterate an earlier point -he(Raf) wasn't even first choice for most of the season at United....

actually he is 1st choice RB at utd

also he stopped one of the best wingers in Ribery for 60mins during the Cl and did a great job on Bale

so you are talking a load of bollix. Raf still has alot to learn but he is only 19 and to be that young and 1st choice RB for utd is truly remarkable

yabadabado

rafa has been the best RB in the league this season.if he continues this form he is nailed on to be on the team of the season.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Kimsang wrote: »

It seems most have problems reading English... Not much I can do about that!

But suggesting raf as the best RB in the league is just plain crazy. He has a lot to prove since he hasn't played many games. He can't defend to save his life, yes he is good attacking but so is Glen Johnson and I don't see anyone calling him the best (anymore ). [edit i guess you''d have to call him a left back now? :P)

To re-iterate an earlier point -he(Raf) wasn't even first choice for most of the season at United....

Can't defend to save his life?
GTFO.

flahavaj

Kimsang wrote: »

It seems most have problems reading English... Not much I can do about that!

But suggesting raf as the best RB in the league is just plain crazy. He has a lot to prove since he hasn't played many games. He can't defend to save his life, yes he is good attacking but so is Glen Johnson and I don't see anyone calling him the best (anymore ). [edit i guess you''d have to call him a left back now? :P)

To re-iterate an earlier point -he(Raf) wasn't even first choice for most of the season at United....

Again, name better.

He's far from just a good attacker - he's a great little defender, tough as nails, strong in the tackle (if a little over eager) but best of all he has great pace which gets him out of trouble if he does slip up. His ability to bomb down the wing is just a bonus. If you think he can't defend to save his life then you haven't seen him play. The fact that he has gone from not being first choice to one of the best in the league just emphasises how good he is.

Mars Bar

Kimsang wrote: »

It seems most have problems reading English... Not much I can do about that!

But suggesting raf as the best RB in the league is just plain crazy. He has a lot to prove since he hasn't played many games. He can't defend to save his life, yes he is good attacking but so is Glen Johnson and I don't see anyone calling him the best (anymore ). [edit i guess you''d have to call him a left back now? :P)

To re-iterate an earlier point -he(Raf) wasn't even first choice for most of the season at United....

We have no problems reading it, you seemed to have struggled writing it. There was contradictions in your post.

If you watched Raf last season and this season, you can see his defending has improved ten fold. He has found much more balance between attacking and defending. I'd have Raf before Johnson because simply, Raf is a better defender IMO. He is 6 years younger than Johnson and has already cemented his place in the first XI of one of the biggest clubs in the world and has played well against some of the best players in the world.

Johnson has been shifted to LB because they have found a better RB in Kelly and they are struggling to find a decent player for LB.

Headshot

Just need to get his brother some games now, Fabio is just unlucky to have Evra ahead of him

Paul Tergat

Headshot wrote: »

Fabio is just unlucky to have Evra ahead of him

Thats also what right wingers say!

Kimsang

I'm not saying he's not good, but far from the best. Sagna and ivanovic even hutton has proven himself better this season.

pointless having this discussion with all these arrogant man u fans though.

and mars_bar there are no contradictions in the post you are referring to. I'm still not sure why people have problems understanding it.

Headshot

Na we're not arrogant just better

Kold

Hutton had Berbs in his pocket.

Jax Teller

Kimsang wrote: »

I'm not saying he's not good, but far from the best. Sagna and ivanovic even hutton has proven himself better this season.

pointless having this discussion with all these arrogant man u fans though.

and mars_bar there are no contradictions in the post you are referring to. I'm still not sure why people have problems understanding it.

This Is from a blog I read was wrote last week
"United Defence
Moving to defence, and the stats make very good reading for Rafael. He’s attempted 76 tackles and won 52, a success rate of 70%, and one tackle for every 11 minutes on the pitch. Compared, for example, with Branislav Ivanovic (who has played both right-back and centre-back but considered one of the best right-backs) and Bacary Sagna, who have won 69% and 67% of their tackles, with one tackle made every 14 and 18 minutes respectively (the next best two tackling right backs), this makes Rafael the best tackling right-back in the league this season. Patrice Evra meanwhile is having a relatively poor season tackle-wise, winning just 61% of his tackles."

Kimsang

keysersoze_88 wrote: »

This Is from a blog I read was wrote last week
"United Defence
Moving to defence, and the stats make very good reading for Rafael. He’s attempted 76 tackles and won 52, a success rate of 70%, and one tackle for every 11 minutes on the pitch. Compared, for example, with Branislav Ivanovic (who has played both right-back and centre-back but considered one of the best right-backs) and Bacary Sagna, who have won 69% and 67% of their tackles, with one tackle made every 14 and 18 minutes respectively (the next best two tackling right backs), this makes Rafael the best tackling right-back in the league this season. Patrice Evra meanwhile is having a relatively poor season tackle-wise, winning just 61% of his tackles."

I get your point! I concede he is a good tackler, Stats don't lie. although this info says he attempted 76 tackles, yet i'm sure sagna and ivanovic have attempted somewhere like 150 tackles each (having played far more than rafael this season). And their percentages are very close..

But the point as a whole was 'best right back' obviously player positioning, mentality, work rate, pass completion rate, speed all must be factored in.

Jax Teller

Kimsang wrote: »

I get your point! I concede he is a good tackler, Stats don't lie. although this info says he attempted 76 tackles, yet i'm sure sagna and ivanovic have attempted somewhere like 150 tackles each (having played far more than rafael this season). And their percentages are very close..

But the point as a whole was 'best right back' obviously player positioning, mentality, work rate, pass completion rate, speed all must be factored in.

So where you said he can't defend what was that all about ?

Kimsang wrote: »

It seems most have problems reading English... Not much I can do about that!

But suggesting raf as the best RB in the league is just plain crazy. He has a lot to prove since he hasn't played many games. He can't defend to save his life, yes he is good attacking but so is Glen Johnson and I don't see anyone calling him the best (anymore ). [edit i guess you''d have to call him a left back now? :P)

To re-iterate an earlier point -he(Raf) wasn't even first choice for most of the season at United....

Kimsang

ok make me do it twice

"I concede he is a good tackler" I said this in my last post.

want me to do it again? I have humility unlike most man u fans, so i don't care.

I concede he is a good tackler.

I concede he is a good tackler, last time was just for fun.

You can also be a good tackler, and not a great defender. (not positioning yourself properly, bad at aerial challenges)

kryogen

Kold wrote: »

Hutton had Berbs in his pocket.

that doesnt really make much sense tbh

lordgoat

Kimsang wrote: »

You can also be a good tackler, and not a great defender. (not positioning yourself properly, bad at aerial challenges)

He's neither of those things, he's excellent in the air and his positional sense is quite remarkable for someone his age.

Kimsang

lordgoat wrote: »

He's neither of those things, he's excellent in the air and his positional sense is quite remarkable for someone his age.

show me stats and i'll concede that too. But at the moment in my humble opinion (of course very subjective) he isn't strong or rather THE BEST in either of those. Isn't he one of the smallest full backs in the league?

kryogen

Kimsang wrote: »

show me stats and i'll concede that too. But at the moment in my humble opinion (of course very subjective) he isn't strong or rather THE BEST in either of those. Isn't he one of the smallest full backs in the league?

what does the height matter? Evra is one of the smallest players in the league, hasnt hampered him or stopped people calling him the best left back in England/Europe/World

lordgoat

Kimsang wrote: »

show me stats and i'll concede that too. But at the moment in my humble opinion (of course very subjective) he isn't strong or rather THE BEST in either of those. Isn't he one of the smallest full backs in the league?

Sorry, do you even know anything about Raf other than he plays at RB?

His heading is one of the best parts of his game.

Kimsang

kryogen wrote: »

what does the height matter? Evra is one of the smallest players in the league, hasnt hampered him or stopped people calling him the best left back in England/Europe/World

height matters when he tries to win the ball.

E.G.

All things being equal, speed power tackling attacking etc..

Would you choose a 6"0 Full back or a 5"5 one? obviously you will pick the 6"0 as he has a better chance to win headers. (extreme example i know)

Lordgoat your powers of subjective argument are amazing.

S.M.B.

kryogen wrote: »

what does the height matter? Evra is one of the smallest players in the league, hasnt hampered him or stopped people calling him the best left back in England/Europe/World

It matters the same amount as it mattered when Evra got destroyed in the air on his debut.

It's only an issue if opponents try to expose it.

Jax Teller

Kimsang wrote: »

height matters when he tries to win the ball.

E.G.

All things being equal, speed power tackling attacking etc..

Would you choose a 6"0 Full back or a 5"5 one? obviously you will pick the 6"0 as he has a better chance to win headers. (extreme example i know)

Lordgoat your powers of subjective argument are amazing.

If you take Ashley cole and Evra for example they are 2 short left backs and they're arguably the best around and nobody ever says anything about them been short so been a tall or small has not bearin at all .

lordgoat

Kimsang wrote: »

height matters when he tries to win the ball.

E.G.

All things being equal, speed power tackling attacking etc..

Would you choose a 6"0 Full back or a 5"5 one? obviously you will pick the 6"0 as he has a better chance to win headers. (extreme example i know)

Lordgoat your powers of subjective argument are amazing.

I'd pick the best full back out of the two regardless of what height he was. Idiotic example.

No point in arguing with people that don't know what they're talking about.

Divorce Referendum

Kimsang wrote: »

height matters when he tries to win the ball.

E.G.

All things being equal, speed power tackling attacking etc..

Would you choose a 6"0 Full back or a 5"5 one? obviously you will pick the 6"0 as he has a better chance to win headers. (extreme example i know)

Lordgoat your powers of subjective argument are amazing.

So you wouldnt have had poor Denis Irwin in his day then. Only 5ft 8 but dont seem to remember him having much problems. Rafael is the same height by the way.

Kimsang

lordgoat wrote: »

I'd pick the best full back out of the two regardless of what height he was. Idiotic example.

No point in arguing with people that don't know what they're talking about.

are you actually retarded? i mean below the standard level of intelligence that somehow you don't understand what is right in front of you?

Kimsang

let's all take a deep breath and review. You man u fans do like to get yourselves in a fuzzle!

I stated "Isn't rafael one of the smallest FB in the league?"

I was met with teh response "what does height matter?"

I replied "given all things are equal surely you would choose teh taller FB"- thus logicallly a taller FB given all other things equal is beneficial.

Now i'm not actually talkinng about rafael's heading ability . MY GOD DO MAN U FANS GET FOOKING DEFENSIVE.

The bolded part is for the retarded goat

FatherTed

The transformation in Rafael in the last 12 months has been amazing. His game has developed so much on both sides of the ball - defensively and offensively. He dribbles better, short-passes better, shoots better but still doesn't cross anywhere near as well as Neville at his best, but he crosses well enough. So from that perspective, he's got all the tools he needs to be a a premier RB.

Add on his ability in one-on-ones on the defensive end - he isn't outdone for pace or strength and you've got all the hallmarks of a top-class attacking RB.

But that's not where Rafael's mark ends, but rather where it appears to be beginning as he is already a better defensive FB than Evra on the other side. He tucks in when he needs to, he has learnt admirably to hold the line and he seems to know when to break rank and go out to the flank - as opposed to Evra who will stay tucked way longer than he should, thus giving his flanker all the room in the world to cross or attack on the diagonal unless our winger is aware of the impending danger.

Rafael's also got the doggedness, tenacity and aggression that wingers absolutely hate.

With Rio and Neville mentoring him, he's got two of the best educational references in the game to accelerate his development.

He's only 20. If he continues to develop at this pace, he's well on his way to be the top RB soon.


On the game itself, as a Man Utd fan it was a fine performance defensively but pure muck going forward. We have serious problems in the middle of the park. Carrick and Fletcher have been very poor all year and it's an area that needs addressed.

Still, no other team from the top 4 have beaten them so far while we have don so already. So I guess we still doing ok without having played well.

Blatter

Regarding the height thing, Ashley Cole is 5'7'' and is widely regarded as the best full back in the world.

Roberto Carlos was 5'6''.

Nemanja91

5'8 would be average for a fullback.

Liam O

FatherTed wrote: »

Carrick and Fletcher have been very poor all year and it's an area that needs addressed.

I'll give you Fletcher (who hasn't been poor, just below his standards) but Carrick has IN NO WAY been poor this season and this should be recognised.

Dues Bellator

Defencive display of the W/end united v spurs.

Striker performance of the W/end Teves v Wolves.

Worst goalkeeping of the W/end Hennesey Wolves v City.

Improved performance of the W/end Liverpool v Everton

Mitch Connor

MotM Voting Results for the Spurs game.

Man United Fan and Overall vote:

1. Vidic
2. Ferdinand
3. Rafael.

Non United fan vote (4 votes)

1. Vidic
2. Ferdinand and Van der Sar
3. Carrick

Link to voting:

https://spreadsheets1.google.com/ccc?key=t4BqqEvKCezS9JRuLcWTrrQ&hl=en&authkey=CMvv7fMG#gid=2