Irish Dj Industry Association

jtsuited

that's always been the case lads. mechanical copyright and all that jazz.

Musicman2000

And are clubs not paying IRMA allready?

gsparx

It's a law that's insanely out of date. According to Wiki, the UK and obviously Ireland are way behind Spain, Australia, the US and others when it comes to copyright law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripping

electrogrimey

I imagine it's a FF/Vintners thing, hopefully it'll get changed in the new government, especially if GUTN are lobbying for it.

Buttercake, I'd stay well away from the IDJIA if I were you. I'd sooner work for that Nigerian prince who wants to give me money than Mr. Bernard Kelly.

T-rev

Buttercake wrote: »

Well the idea for a DJ association is not ridiculous in any respect. I think there has been some crosswires with the PPI and the IDJIA or communication and maybe the IDJIA founder is getting a bit emotional, but theres no call for abusive messages etc

you might be right though

This is the 3rd time in the past 10years that someone has started a DJ association, the last guy wanted to do an awards ceremony and that failed, the guy before that wasn't bothered at all

Yes but the idea of trying to get money from people in an industry you all seem to know fu(k all about is a bit ridiculous in fairness. Then when people email you to see what this is all about you OR SOMEONE at the IDJIA spurt out all of these mongo emails back rather than explaining what you are all about.

How can any of you in that association expected to be taken seriously?

None of you seem to have the slightest clue what you are all about.

It has SCAM written all over it.

Is mise le key

SteveDon wrote: »

Am I the only person not on facebook these days?

No, theres at least two of us anyway:D

jtsuited wrote: »

story goes.....this guy (IDJA) was saying on his facebook that some new rule was coming into effect that meant djs had to pay the PPI 200 euro per year or something otherwise they'd have their gear confiscated.
Everyone went mental, but nobody actually asked for the source. When I did, he pointed me to the ppi website, which has a section called 'who has to pay'.
Since Djs were not listed (and believe me the list was thorough), I figured something was indeed fishy, and copied and pasted the whole thing to his facebook discussion. Literally two minutes later the whole thing was deleted.

Cyber investigative journalism.......worlds created & destroyed from your armchair;)

jtess wrote: »

When the PPI come knocking on your door you wish you had listened to the idjia instead of creating panic amongst yourselves..

When i hear the door being rapped in short sharp succesive knocks (as tends to be the case from an irate organisation looking to take money off you) i'll be to busy swallowing all the speed & emptying the ashtray of all the spliff butts into the fire to give a sh.it about the MP3's on my flash stick:D

Buttercake wrote: »

A couple of points to note

1. A DJ association
A DJ association has been mooted by myself and others in the..........
2. The PPI
The PPI have been working for the past number of years regarding this.......
3. The Association
A point to note is that this association's ethos is to provide a.........

You need to seek help from a doctor for verbal diarrhoea because you are talking out of your arse!!!!

Buttercake wrote: »

As the website is not finished and we are completing the manifesto

Heres is a very relevant manifesto chief;)....Do take heed. (Thanks to EarlERizer for providing this)

EarlERizer wrote:

Our emotional state of choice is Ecstasy. Our nourishment of choice is Love. Our addiction of choice is technology.
Our religion of choice is music. Our currency of choice is knowledge. Our politics of choice is none.
Our society of choice is utopian though we know it will never be. You may hate us. You may dismiss us. You may misunderstand us. You may be unaware of our existence.
We can only hope you do not care to judge us, because we would never judge you. We are not criminals. We are not disillusioned. We are not drug addicts. We are not naive children...
We are one massive, global, tribal village that transcends man-made law, physical geography, and time itself.
We are The Massive. One Massive.
We were first drawn by the sound. From far away, the thunderous, muffled, echoing beat was comparable to a mother's heart soothing a child in her womb of concrete, steel, and electrical wiring.
We were drawn back into this womb, and there, in the heat, dampness, and darkness of it,
We came to accept that we are all equal. Not only to the darkness, and to ourselves, but to the very music slamming into us and passing through our souls: we are all equal.
And somewhere around 35 Hz we could feel the hand of God at our backs, pushing us forward, pushing us to push ourselves to strengthen our minds, our bodies, and our spirits,
Pushing us to turn to the person beside us to join hands and uplift them by sharing the uncontrollable joy we felt from creating this magical bubble that can, for one evening, protect us from the horrors, atrocities, and pollution of the outside world. It is in that very instant, with these initial realisations that each of us was truly born.
We continue to pack our bodies into clubs, or warehouses, or buildings you've abandoned and left for naught, and we bring life to them for one night.
Strong, throbbing, vibrant life in it's purest, most intense, most hedonistic form.
In these makeshift spaces, we seek to shed ourselves of the burden of uncertainty for a future you have been unable to stabilise and secure for us.
We seek to relinquish our inhibitions, and free ourselves from the shackle's and restraints you've put on us for your own peace of mind.
We seek to re-write the programming that you have tried to indoctrinate us with since the moment we were born.
Programming that tells us to hate, that tells us to judge, that tells us to stuff ourselves into the nearest and most convenient pigeon hole possible. Programming that even tells us to climb ladders for you, jump through hoops, and run through mazes and on hamster wheels.
Programming that tells us to eat from the shiny silver spoon you are trying to feed us with, instead of nourish ourselves with our own capable hands.
Programming that tells us to close our minds, instead of open them.
Until the sun rises to burn our eyes by revealing the dis-utopian reality of a world you've created for us, we dance fiercely with our brothers and sisters in celebration of our life, of our culture, and of the values we believe in:
Peace, Love, Freedom, Tolerance, Unity, Harmony,
Expression, Responsibility and Respect.
Our enemy of choice is ignorance. Our weapon of choice is information. Our crime of choice is breaking and challenging whatever laws you feel you need to put in place to stop us from celebrating our existence.
But know that while you may shut down any given party, on any given night, in any given city, in any given country or continent on this beautiful planet, you can never shut down the entire party.
You don't have access to that switch, no matter what you may think. The music will never stop. The heartbeat will never fade. The party will never end.
I am a raver, and this is my manifesto.

gsparx wrote: »

:rolleyes:
God bless the music industry.
Cue the "just play vinyl" posts.

Damn, was hoping that wouldnt be posted before i got a chance to:(

jtsuited

the strange thing is, I think we desperately need IMRO/MCPS/PPI to bring in some sort of proper regulation regarding illegally downloaded music being played by people for profit.

Whatever about people consuming music illegally for their own enjoyment (hey let's be realistic here), there are many DJs going around making money off copyright theft.

Zascar

Yeah absolutely, I think most people would agree with that. if you are making money off it you have no excuse not to be paying for it..

Is mise le key

jtsuited wrote: »

the strange thing is, I think we desperately need IMRO/MCPS/PPI to bring in some sort of proper regulation regarding illegally downloaded music being played by people for profit.

Whatever about people consuming music illegally for their own enjoyment (hey let's be realistic here), there are many DJs going around making money off copyright theft.

You cannot regulate the Rave (*awaits backlash telling him to get back in to his box you dinosaur for using the word rave etc*)

It will literally destroy the soul of what dance music isall about,
Yes enforcment of copyright laws need to be ramped up etc etc, but putting the kosh on DJ's & Venues in this manner will in my opinion drive the popularity of Rave/Dance down & be detrimental to its continued success as a truly inspiring & creative art form.

Venues will begin to look at easier options for making money if it becomes the norm for such 'music raids' on the premises & an onus becoming greater on them to ensure the DJ's playing at their blah blah blah etc etc etc.......

The reality the internet has changed the entire music & film industry forever until the people that run the ISP's start cracking down hard on illegal music but we all know how far off that is & almost undoable.

This proposed course of action will acheive nothing only to damage the very movement it is attempting to preserve by imposing very strict regulations on an illegal practice that is not in any way unique to DJ's & Rave/Dance music.

It actually appears on the face of it to be most likeley being run by opportunist that see a window to make some serious money rather than an empathic attempt to preserve the standards for all involved.

Bring back Vinyl as the medium of choice.

jtsuited

tbh, one of my main arguments for a culture of making vinyl the only acceptable djing medium is this very fact.

Although I'm seriously biased, what with my revenue streams being absolutely and utterly fcuked by piracy. Which I don't mind in the slightest until I hear about certain djs playing stolen copies and getting paid.

Is mise le key

jtsuited wrote: »

tbh, one of my main arguments for a culture of making vinyl the only acceptable djing medium is this very fact.

Although I'm seriously biased, what with my revenue streams being absolutely and utterly fcuked by piracy. Which I don't mind in the slightest until I hear about certain djs playing stolen copies and getting paid.

Yes but like i said, having the music police raiding venues etc will only create a reluctance in venues to want to keep on promoting Rave/dance music & be totally counter productive to the survival of the art form itself.

Vinyl only venues may be a real breakthrough in the direction of the rave in order to offer,

1. A superior sound quality to punters
2. A real interacion with the DJ & the medium
3. Begin a movement that rejects digital piracy
4. Put vinyl shops back on the block in town

Really think about it, if somewhere put their weight behind such a venture & it was promoted right it could become a real option of choice that could grow & retake the movement away from the opportunists.
Perhaps buttercake & the llikes would put their drive & energy into something like this as it would yield really great results for DJ's & Promoters should it come to fruition.

Logical Fallacy

I'm gonna say right now, if you are relying on a venue for anything, you are ****ed.:D

electrogrimey

Yeah I'd fully support all DJs buying all over their music, as long as I was exempt.

Buttercake

Is mise le key wrote: »

Yes but like i said, having the music police raiding venues etc will only create a reluctance in venues to want to keep on promoting Rave/dance music & be totally counter productive to the survival of the art form itself.

Vinyl only venues may be a real breakthrough in the direction of the rave in order to offer,

1. A superior sound quality to punters
2. A real interacion with the DJ & the medium
3. Begin a movement that rejects digital piracy
4. Put vinyl shops back on the block in town

Really think about it, if somewhere put their weight behind such a venture & it was promoted right it could become a real option of choice that could grow & retake the movement away from the opportunists.
Perhaps buttercake & the llikes would put their drive & energy into something like this as it would yield really great results for DJ's & Promoters should it come to fruition.

No one is using vinyl these days lad

maybe one or two in clubs but not the djs working every weekend at events, functions, weddings etc

jtsuited

Buttercake wrote: »

No one is using vinyl these days lad

maybe one or two in clubs but not the djs working every weekend at events, functions, weddings etc

So what you mean is 'many people are using vinyl these days lad, but none of the wedding/mobile djs and therefore I cannot comprehend this world you speak of.'

Buttercake

jtsuited wrote: »

So what you mean is 'many people are using vinyl these days lad, but none of the wedding/mobile djs and therefore I cannot comprehend this world you speak of.'

that's it

Is mise le key

You began with posts like this,

Buttercake wrote: »

Hello All,

I work as a DJ and I approached the association late last year when I saw it on facebook. I, like many, wanted to know more about it and have since helped the guys in their setup.

A couple of points to note

1. A DJ association
A DJ association has been mooted by myself and others in the industry for the past 5 years, there have been a couple of attempts by others but have failed due to lack of interest or generally not bothering to take it further.

There is a massive requirement for a DJ association, there are associations for electricians, funeral directors, helicopter pilots, taxis and florists so its about time an association was setup for DJs. As someone working for the past 10years, lately, I have seen a dramatic increase in the number of individuals touting themselves as DJs and with the onset of the recession even more people have seen it as an easy way to make money, that's fair enough but the problem is that some of these guys don't know what they are doing and are offering their services for weddings/corporate events and parties and turning up with a couple of powered speakers and a laptop.

There have been horror stories of customers having bad experiences(not even turning up, failed equipment, no interaction or personality) with some of these guys which lowers the reputation of those trying to make a living and giving a professional DJ service and experience. There is also a pricing issue when some guys with a listing on gumtree charge €100 for a gig or some lad charging €15 per hour(http://www.gumtree.ie/dublin/62/67367162.html) and thus confusing customers about pricing, we always get into conversations with customers "Why is he charging only €100 and you €300?". Its like any other industry which is unregulated, there are a lot of cowboys out there and by having an association which members will have to meet certain criteria (references, experience, right equipment and lighting) and adhere to a code of practice and respect amongst other members, it will at least give the general public a place for them to see a directory of professional DJs.

No one has to join the association if they don't want to and it will be open to everyone, from those doing a gig every now and again to the ones working every weekend.

2. The PPI
The PPI have been working for the past number of years regarding this dubbing fee for DJs, this is nothing new and the association has been setup in response to the PPI, which will be introducing the fee on Feb 1st. The fee is reportedly €200, and of course there are a huge number of questions that are been asked in response to this and what exactly constitutes a "track" that a DJ is playing at a gig?

- Mixes creates on a computer?,
- Music purchased from itunes/beatport/7didgital?
- Pre-purchase mixes?
- One DJ has 10,000 tracks and 1 has 100 tracks are they the same?
- Creating duplicate CDs so not to damage original?

The reality is that they are actively going to venues at random and confiscating gear. I was told that if the DJ has the original CD in their collection while they are out gigging, they won't have any of their gear confiscated, if they have a load of copied CDs then they will. When I first got involved in the association, I was told the guys were working with the PPI to get a reduced rate for DJs that comply.

We are hoping to have a meeting with the PPI soon to address these concerns amongst others.

3. The Association
A point to note is that this association's ethos is to provide a representative organisation for DJs. To promote professionalism amongst its members and an outlet for customers to view registered members, like most associations out there.

There are many issues out there regaridng the indutrsy that the assocaiiton willl hoppe to address, but this is an assocaiiton, not a legislative body and it is not an exact science, the number of resources in the first year will be limited but it will endevour to work with politicans(and current opposiiton) to create a more workable industry for all. There is the current vat rate of 21% that DJs registered as businesses have to pay instead of 13.5% that the association are trying to negotiate. These are all matter that we can address but we cannot guarantee their outcome. With more members, it will strengthen the association but comments on facebook and boards that create hysteria or idle gossip amongst the DJs are divisive and will do no-one any favours.

The association was founded late last year after word go out about the PPI introducing this new dubbing fee, the founder registered the website and put up a holding page and some social network pages. As the website is not finished and we are completing the manifesto and as December was a hectic month, we are now getting the association back on track. The reason why the facebook page was setup initially is to promote the association and spread the word. It has nothing to do with the number of likes or friends! or spamming or a scam?!, if 10 people or 1000 people like it, it makes no difference, its about using facebook as a medium to spread the word around... scam?! did you hand over any money?!

There are a lot of DJs out there in all shapes and sizes, from clubs to weddings, the aim of this association is to provide those DJs who wish to build a career as a DJ or those who want to start their own agency or those who work every now and again. but fundamentally only those who provide an excellent service and have the right gear and systems in place will be members.

The current members are based all over Ireland and we are working on our manifesto after the Christmas/New Years period and hope to publish it soon, the website will be finished then and we will take membership applications soon.

If you have any constructive comments on the page and this topic and if you do have any questions about the association or would like to become involved, please email: info@idjia.ie or send me a PM

Thanks

And have deteriorated to this,

Buttercake wrote: »

that's it

forgive me but i think you only have any drive in this if you can make some money from it.

Buttercake

Is mise le key wrote: »

You began with posts like this,



And have deteriorated to this,



forgive me but i think you only have any drive in this if you can make some money from it.

ha! well done

to answer your two points

My post today(above) is a response to mise's post regarding vinyl and my response was that no one uses vinyl nowadays and that an idea like that wouldn't work because no one uses vinyl in mobile gigs, unless of course I am the only one who doesn't use vinyl

Secondly, recoiling back to my very first post last week regarding this whole association, my ideas and opinoins are still the same and haven't changed, but after the responses from users here and speaking with others, I am having nothing to do with this assoc in any respect whatsoever! lol

so please enlighten me as to how am i going to make some money? because I would love to hear your ideas

jtsuited

Buttercake wrote: »

yl

Secondly, recoiling back to my very first post last week regarding this whole association, my ideas and opinoins are still the same and haven't changed, but after the responses from users here and speaking with others, I am having nothing to do with this assoc in any respect whatsoever! lol

???????? can you be a bit more specific?

Buttercake

jtsuited wrote: »

???????? can you be a bit more specific?

I volunteered my time in helping to set up this assoc last year and now I'm not having anything to do with it

after talking to people on here and elsewhere

jtsuited

fair enough. fair play.

Buttercake

jtsuited wrote: »

fair enough. fair play.

Cheers

I still stand by my points that DJs do need an association of some sort, PPI related or not, my own view is that a DJ association should have no association with the PPI etc, unless they can offer discounted rates etc.

If funeral directors and florists have their own voluntary associations then DJs should have one too, be it on a small scale or whatever

At the end of the day, its only an association, If I have a problem in business, I cant ring up the Small Firms Assoc and start shouting about this and that, unless I'm a member

Unfortunately the execution of setting up this association leaves a lot to be desired

jtsuited

personally I'd like one big mega crackdown worldwide on djs playing illegally copied music. If that means the PPI have to go raiding venues so be it.

Buttercake

jtsuited wrote: »

personally I'd like one big mega crackdown worldwide on djs playing illegally copied music. If that means the PPI have to go raiding venues so be it.

It's like trying to crackdown on car tax or skinny jeans

Thread below is old i know
http://www.radiowavesforum.com/rw/showthread.php?t=19095&page=2

The problem is bandwidth, they only have a few inspectors nationwide and trying to get a guard to go with them on a sat night can obviously be tricky, imagine how many gigs are going on any one weekend night from parties-weddings-clubs?

In my opinion, I'd say what will happen is venues will only allow a DJ onto the premises for a party or whatever it is by showing his "license"

BaZmO*

jtsuited wrote: »

personally I'd like one big mega crackdown worldwide on djs playing illegally copied music. If that means the PPI have to go raiding venues so be it.

But what if that illegally downloaded copy creates 10 sales? Which in fairness, it's bound to do due to the exposure.

The music industry is built on promotion which has always included the issuing of free promos to DJs.

Buttercake

BaZmO* wrote: »

But what if that illegally downloaded copy creates 10 sales? Which in fairness, it's bound to do due to the exposure.

The music industry is built on promotion which has always included the issuing of free promos to DJs.

valid enough point

Single sells for 99cent
DJ price is 49cent

20-40% of the crowd/audience goes out an buys said single

jtsuited

BaZmO* wrote: »

But what if that illegally downloaded copy creates 10 sales? Which in fairness, it's bound to do due to the exposure.

That's one of those figures you hear all the time from piracy advocates that I have yet to see any substantial proof of.

Chloroplast

As jtsuited said ,a "big mega crackdown" will help a lot.

it will weed out the overnight dj blow-ins who haven't paid a penny for their content(or software for that matter) and are getting paid for gigs just as much as those who have paid...

by getting rid of these vermin,it will cut down on the amount of these djs that are getting gigs and will possibly make room for those of us who actually pay for our tunes fair and square(digital or vinyl).

BaZmO* wrote: »

But what if that illegally downloaded copy creates 10 sales? Which in fairness, it's bound to do due to the exposure.

The music industry is built on promotion which has always included the issuing of free promos to DJs.

while this might be/could be true, the person uploading the content to share has absolutely no right to do so. it his not his property. and it is for the record label to call the shots on weather they will give music away for free with a basis of "try before you buy". there are more ways of getting exposure than to give away a product for free and expect people to then pay for it when it was given to them free in the first place.

while that may work with certain products ,it doesn't work like that with music. if someone downloads an mp3 off torrents for free, they are not gonna pay for the exact same content because they feel the artist deserves the sale. if they felt the artist deserves the sale they would be on beatport buying it firstly and not browsing torrents.(at least that's my view on the matter).

Logical Fallacy

BaZmO* wrote: »

But what if that illegally downloaded copy creates 10 sales?

Worth a read.

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/4206.html

jtsuited

Chloroplast wrote: »

As jtsuited said ,a "big mega crackdown" will help a lot.

it will weed out the overnight dj blow-ins who haven't paid a penny for their content(or software for that matter) and are getting paid for gigs just as much as those who have paid...

by getting rid of these vermin,it will cut down on the amount of these djs that are getting gigs and will possibly make room for those of us who actually pay for our tunes fair and square(digital or vinyl).

I know it might seem over the top, but it needs to be done.

electrogrimey

1) PPI rings up the Pope

2) Convinces the Pope to declare that music piracy is a sin

3) Pope pretends that they've found some new evidence showing God said that music piracy is a sin

4) All the religious sheep in the world stop stealing music

5) Piracy become taboo in society

6) Problem solved

jtsuited

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Worth a read.

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/4206.html

i doubt anyone really disagrees with that article and what it says, but, that's not the point we're talking about.

People sharing mp3s illegally is just one of those things you have to learn to live with.

People playing illegal mp3s and GETTING PAID for it is a completely different matter.

If a purely-amateur DJ is robbing my tunes and playing them out and making no financial gain from it, I'm really not bothered.
What I am bothered by is guys getting a couple of hundred a night and not having the decency to actually make sure the appropriate amount gets to the artist by purchasing legitimately.

jtsuited

electrogrimey wrote: »

1) PPI rings up the Pope

2) Convinces the Pope to declare that music piracy is a sin

3) Pope pretends that they've found some new evidence showing God said that music piracy is a sin

4) All the religious sheep in the world stop stealing music

5) Piracy become taboo in society

6) Problem solved

Yes because that certainly worked for sex before marriage, contraception, and homosexuality.

electrogrimey

jtsuited wrote: »

Yes because that certainly worked for sex before marriage, contraception, and homosexuality.

It did work, that's the point. If the church can convince people that abortion, homosexuality and contraception is wrong, then they should at least start convincing people that BAD things are wrong.

The Pope's been doing loads on u-turns on policies recently. I think this could work.

Logical Fallacy

jtsuited wrote: »

i doubt anyone really disagrees with that article and what it says, but, that's not the point we're talking about.

People sharing mp3s illegally is just one of those things you have to learn to live with.

People playing illegal mp3s and GETTING PAID for it is a completely different matter.

If a purely-amateur DJ is robbing my tunes and playing them out and making no financial gain from it, I'm really not bothered.
What I am bothered by is guys getting a couple of hundred a night and not having the decency to actually make sure the appropriate amount gets to the artist by purchasing legitimately.

But here's the thing, what steps do you take to ensure that people are the legit owners of the music they plan on playing out?

Even with a physical medium you cannot be sure they came by it through legal channels. Record bags go missing all the time sadly.

Not being flippant, just genuinely curious as to your views.

ro_chez

jtsuited wrote: »

i doubt anyone really disagrees with that article and what it says, but, that's not the point we're talking about.

People sharing mp3s illegally is just one of those things you have to learn to live with.

People playing illegal mp3s and GETTING PAID for it is a completely different matter.

If a purely-amateur DJ is robbing my tunes and playing them out and making no financial gain from it, I'm really not bothered.
What I am bothered by is guys getting a couple of hundred a night and not having the decency to actually make sure the appropriate amount gets to the artist by purchasing legitimately.

Whats the difference between the dj who downloads his tunes from torrents, p2p etc., plays them out and doesnt forward his tracklist to the relevant group who will pay you and the dj who purchased his tunes legally, plays them out and doesnt forward his tracklist to the relevant group who will pay you? You still wont get anything for the performance of your tracks, right?

And same for those who do and you would, no?

And say you play mp3's, wav's...how do they know that they are legit?
Must you have a mobile internet connection and a gmail account with receipts for the full 100gb+ music library you have on your laptop?

BaZmO*

The horse has bolted with regards to a crackdown on music piracy. There are people out there that have never paid for music and probably never will. You can argue the moral rights and wrongs of it but it'll get you nowhere, things have moved on.

Was listening to some guy on the radio the other day who has set up a website where you can stream new (or old music) for either a paid subscription (without ads) or a free service with ads. The paid version works on a monthly subscription of unlimited streams, and I think it saves it to your mobile media device so you don't have to be online and it won't eat up your data allowance. Not sure about the free version. Obviously the artist gets a cut, small amount, but eventually it ads up.

Things like this are the future, especially for a younger generation (but not limited to) who, as I've said earlier, have never paid for music in their lifetime.

jtsuited

ro_chez wrote: »

Whats the difference between the dj who downloads his tunes from torrents, p2p etc., plays them out and doesnt forward his tracklist to the relevant group who will pay you and the dj who purchased his tunes legally, plays them out and doesnt forward his tracklist to the relevant group who will pay you?

answer: about a euro per track.

Chloroplast

ro_chez wrote: »

Whats the difference between the dj who downloads his tunes from torrents, p2p etc., plays them out and doesnt forward his tracklist to the relevant group who will pay you and the dj who purchased his tunes legally, plays them out and doesnt forward his tracklist to the relevant group who will pay you? You still wont get anything for the performance of your tracks, right?

He's not basing it off royalty payments,

A dj downloads his tunes from torrents, p2p : they cost him zero euro, he does a slot in a nightclub, he gets paid 300 euro. jtsuited gets zero.

A dj downloads his tunes from beatport, they cost him at least 1.30 a tune. he does a slot in a nightclub, he gets paid 300 euro. jtsuited gets a royalty cut of that 1.30 after his label gets sorted.

so when a dj downs his tunes from torrents and gets paid for gigs, that is bothersome to everyone.

cheesemaker

Buttercake wrote: »

No one is using vinyl these days lad

maybe one or two in clubs but not the djs working every weekend at events, functions, weddings etc

sigh,

Why are you even here then bothering us then.
P!ss off to your functions and worry about wedding DJs.
I'm sure you will get the same response from them.

ro_chez

jtsuited wrote: »

answer: about a euro per track.

Sorry, should have said apart from sales, I suppose my point was that you would probably make more from royalties if you're producing tracks which are popular and being played by dj's but I thought I read on here before that its not often common for this to happen! Depending on the genre, it would be mainly dj's who would buy tracks and I would have also assumed that most dj's who are playing in clubs regularly would purchase their tracks from a legal avenue. Maybe I'm a bit naive to think that!

I havent got a clue really so thats why I ask.

disc79

the PPi deals with venues . it would be imro who would be after djs

Buttercake

cheesemaker wrote: »

sigh,

Why are you even here then bothering us then.
P!ss off to your functions and worry about wedding DJs.
I'm sure you will get the same response from them.

Ridiculous comment

this thread is not about vinyl, however a comment was made that vinyl should be the norm for DJs so there would no licensing issues with the PPI

What percentage of DJs use vinyl these days in clubs, not bedrooms?, less than 10% at a guess, out of 6 club DJs i know personally 1 uses vinyl

hans aus dtschl

I guess it depends on your definition of a DJ in a club.
I doubt if any of the current crop of cattlemart dj's have ever used vinyl.

However, in terms of electronic music, maybe its 30% to 50% or something like that.

Unfortunately for you this is the "electronic music and dj'ing" board, rather than the "booze and cattlemart" board so opinions will always be slightly skewed in this way.

Android 666

hans aus dtschl

Yes, I am also loving the handbags.
But come on Android, some things are just too funny to leave go....

I mean, in all seriousness, I have a good few friends who DJ, maybe 20 or 30 of my close friends, and maybe 2 or 3 don't use vinyl. It's absolutely about perspective. People who DJ in the more mainstream clubs usually don't use vinyl.

gsparx

Chloroplast wrote: »

He's not basing it off royalty payments,

A dj downloads his tunes from torrents, p2p : they cost him zero euro, he does a slot in a nightclub, he gets paid 300 euro. jtsuited gets zero.

A dj downloads his tunes from beatport, they cost him at least 1.30 a tune. he does a slot in a nightclub, he gets paid 300 euro. jtsuited gets a royalty cut of that 1.30 after his label gets sorted.

so when a dj downs his tunes from torrents and gets paid for gigs, that is bothersome to everyone.

Whether listening at home or playing it in public it's the same thing to me. I know some people will justify it. "Fcuk U2/ Madonna/ Kanye West etc. they're loaded, I'm broke, why should I pay for it?"
But underground electronic music? For fcuk sake, just fcuking pay for it or don't listen to it.
Listen to FM104 or whatever station plays the hits.
There has to be some way to fine people who steal music.
Going around to clubs and messing up a night for the paying public (who are innocent in this sense) is not the answer.

was.deevey

The association thing seems like a joke .. but in relation to the piracy, illegal activity ..

Go back 12-15 years where every second kid on the block had some form of turntable and HAD no choice but to buy the records.

The ratio of bedroom jocks to guys making a living out of it was probably 100:1 ... I have no doubt things haven't changed that much. I'm 100% sure the majority of Vinyl sold back then was to the bedroom wannabe's, music lovers etc..., NOT the pro's playing week in week out and exposing it to them.

Unfortunatly now every second kid on the block has a midi controller and uncapped bandwidth, meaning a huge drop in sales for the labels, the same in every genre.

Now if things worked backwards with ONLY the bedroom jocks paying, and the club DJ's given free license to play anything (which looks to be the case with the PPI fee's) from any medium there's a whole lot more money to be made by going after the real issue ... the bedroom jocks who won't cough up.

Of course it remains to be seen what excatly the PPI are planning to do with their new revenue stream, how many pro jocks are there in the country?.. when its broken down it doesn't seem like alot, who gets the money ?

The system does however seem open to abuse by the same DJ's who are currently playing nothing to DJ at home, essentially they could buy a licence to break the law provided they pay the (small) fee yearly.

The piracy Issue will not go away ... unfortunate but fact, even if the torrent & filesharing sites all came down tomorrow you can bet your dear life there'd be guys selling DVD's stacked full of the latest top tracks from beatport or wherever. But in doing so it would be a start and would be an easier to monitor piracy situation.

There will be the argument from the non-pro jocks who will (no doubt) try to argue that they aren't making money out of DJ'ing and feel they shouldn't be paying for the music in the first place... sorry wake up! They ARE the very people the labels USED to be able to make money from when there was a format being used that could not be duplicated. Since CD copiers / MP3's became the norm the revenue has dried up.

It is a sensitive issue surrounding piracy and peoples privacy, but there should be systems in place at an ISP level where file types, flagged sites, keywords or otherwise can be anonymously be loaded, flagged and simply New "new_britney_song.mp3" tracked against legitimatly owned online retailers or flagged for a closer look (surely the labels can provide a list of who is authorized to sell their music online ?).

The buck has got to stop somewhere

Bottom line, IMHO clamping down on the Pro DJ's seems simply easier than trying to hit the root cause of the problem which is a lack of retail sales caused by EDM piracy from bedroom digi-jocks who used to make up the majority of record label sales (at least in electronic music).

200 bucks isn't in fairness a bad fee to pay, and would regulate everything somewhat at the Pro-level, provided safeguards are in place where the bedroom jocks cannot get their hands on this get out of jail free card.

But I don't think an extra Dj "Union" (which is essentially what the Association is) is whats needed, certainly not from these guys anyhow...would there be an additional yearly fee be payable to them as well, fackoff, regulation on pricing ?, reports on DJ no-shows, I would think most established jocks here cut their teeth playing for nothing and working up how would they assess that ?

Set up a Irish dj reviews site and wait for libel when someone gets bad mouthed.

Sorry for the rant my 2 or 3 or 4 cents.

@ jsuited: Would you prefer the 100 bedroom jocks & punters buying your tracks and be in a situation where the DJ's playing it in (any form) is simply more exposure for your tracks ? (Maybe not?)

Perhaps some sort of PPI DJ Pool is needed, where actual tracks are available though PPI or every genre that paid up members can access, it might also simplify what the distribution of royalties should be to the labels.

Idea's running around and not going anywhere ... again sorry for the rant..

brain calming now

Buttercake

was.deevey wrote: »

But I don't think an extra Dj "Union" (which is essentially what the Association is) is whats needed, certainly not from these guys anyhow...would there be an additional yearly fee be payable to them as well, fackoff, regulation on pricing ?, reports on DJ no-shows, I would think most established jocks here cut their teeth playing for nothing and working up how would they assess that ?

Set up a Irish dj reviews site and wait for libel when someone gets bad mouthed.

With respect, a union is not an association, An association is voluntary, a union is an entity which lobbies for better working conditions and pay

SIPTU is hardly the same as the Irish Countrywomen Association....

Again is this attitude that some people have of lambasting any notion of starting a DJ association, it's unreal

If any association was setup, of course you would have to pay a membership fee, like the other thousands of associations out there. My idea for the association is that its for customers and the general public to check out legitimate DJs that are trying to make a living and cut out the cowboys who continually f*ck up gigs and give the industry a bad name.

Its a bit hysterical to think that a DJ associaiton would print reports on DJs no shows etc, I suggested that they just wouldn't be members in the first place. Like you could get an electrican from reci.ie or some lad to come out and f*ck up your house wiring.. same principles

If you are sitting in your bedroom with high aspirations and "closed eyes" crowd roars and not playing any gigs then you have nothing to worry about in terms of any association

I can only imagine the avalanche of issues from DJs on a daily basis coming into any association

was.deevey

With respect, a union is not an association, An association is voluntary, a union is an entity which lobbies for better working conditions and pay

There is also a pricing issue when some guys with a listing on gumtree charge €100 for a gig or some lad charging €15 per hour(http://www.gumtree.ie/dublin/62/67367162.html) and thus confusing customers about pricing, we always get into conversations with customers "Why is he charging only €100 and you €300?". Its like any other industry which is unregulated, there are a lot of cowboys out there and by having an association which members will have to meet certain criteria (references, experience, right equipment and lighting) and adhere to a code of practice and respect amongst other members, it will at least give the general public a place for them to see a directory of professional DJs

Sounds alot like a Union ? A Countrywomans association aren't in it for the cash and go about moaning about XYZ stole my gig (so far as i know).

I can only imagine the avalanche of issues from DJs on a daily basis coming into any association

Good for you I don't believe you have the skills to deal with the said issues but good for you!

@jsuited

If a purely-amateur DJ is robbing my tunes and playing them out and making no financial gain from it, I'm really not bothered.
What I am bothered by is guys getting a couple of hundred a night and not having the decency to actually make sure the appropriate amount gets to the artist by purchasing legitimately.

Thats an very idealistic view though and not very business like, if all the amateur DJ's that heard your tracks went and bought them BECAUSE they were trainspotting the last time they were at a club, it would far outweigh the revenue of pure "professional" music sales by a mile.

That said your argument is valid unless piracy is clamped down on a large domestic scale and the amateurs HAVE NO CHOICE but to buy them and make up for the small number of professionals downloading/burning from their mates etc.... and paying their yearly "I can copy it" fee.