What have I got myself into - New biker here, confused as all hell

thomashood10

Hello,

I recently put in a deposit on a Ninja 250r with the intention of learning to ride and getting started.

I live in Dundrum and work in Swords, the bus is a 2 hour commute, and while cheap (costing me about 86 quid a month) it's not time effective, nor really fun. And I figured hell I work full time, I can probably pay for something a bit more fun and enjoyable, while hopefully saving a bit of time on the road.

I suppose I could just get a full license for my car, but I don't really have the time or the energy when I come back from work to study for it. And the last thing I want is some instructor in my ear at the end of a long day telling me stuff I already know, or could look up for free online.

I looked into this a while back, and from what I could tell I'd have to retake the theory test to get to L plate status. Which would allow me to go through town and get to work at the least while applying for my full test.

Coming on here though, and hearing about this IBT course stuff. I thought oh god what crazy new things do I have to pay for now.

I have a B class (car) provisional (learner permit) license that will expire in march, that I got well before December 2010.

Do I have to pay for this IBT, or do I retake the theory test, or do I just apply for an A category license when I renew my permit? And if I have to go with this IBT.. is it really €800 for a 16 hour training session?!

Apologies if this gets asked a lot, but the RSA website is rubbish. Any help appreciated

MargeS

there is very good info here:
http://www.magireland.org/information-sheets/getting-on-the-road/

also, i reckon you will need that ninja restricted to be compliant with the licence laws, more info here:
http://www.magireland.org/information-sheets/25kw-license-facts/

cantdecide

thomashood10 wrote: »

.. I can probably pay for something a bit more fun and enjoyable, while hopefully saving a bit of time on the road.

I suppose I could just get a full license for my car, but I don't really have the time or the energy when I come back from work to study for it. And the last thing I want is some instructor in my ear at the end of a long day telling me stuff I already know, or could look up for free online.

I looked into this a while back, and from what I could tell I'd have to retake the theory test to get to L plate status. Which would allow me to go through town and get to work at the least while applying for my full test.

Coming on here though, and hearing about this IBT course stuff. I thought oh god what crazy new things do I have to pay for now.

I have a B class (car) provisional (learner permit) license that will expire in march, that I got well before December 2010.

Do I have to pay for this IBT, or do I retake the theory test, or do I just apply for an A category license when I renew my permit? And if I have to go with this IBT.. is it really €800 for a 16 hour training session?!...

When I hear you talking about cost cost cost I worry that you aren't doing this entirely for the right reasons. If you are operating under the assumption that you wouldn't have to take biking as seriously as driving cars, you would be mistaken. It's twice as hard to get going on bikes safely and trying to side step training is not a safe attitude.

I can't advise you definitively as to whether you're old theory test will cover you or if you will be subject to IBT. I think you might get away with it since it was recent but I can't be sure.

TBH, there are lots of people deriding IBT but it is a good thing and is designed to keep people in your position safe. I say that as someone who was in your position 3 years ago. I went and got my grade 2 prior to insuring my first bike and I can tell you it's an eye opener.

You can definitely do a bit better on the training pricewise. I recommend getting a day's intensive training to start with. Don't forget you will have to buy your bike, spend maybe €1k on good gear, training will cost something in the region of €500 (which you should do whether you have to or not) plus insurance aswell as other sundries and incidentals. Not to mention fuel and maintenance etc. So yes, there is commitment involved and it isn't motoring light

IMO, you have to take the attitude that you don't know enough to know how little you know. So if you have felt that this might be an experience you will enjoy and get a kick out of, start as you mean to continue. If this is intended to be a way of avoiding the car test, please ask yourself how much you are willing to invest in your own safety.

thomashood10

Ofcourse I'm going to take this seriously.. that doesn't mean I should just open my wallet and pay whatever. I earn about 1800 quid a month, and the responsible thing to do is to try and save money and be cost effective with the money I have. We all have families.

I'm probably just used to getting training for free (see sig). ;P

I'm not trying to side step anything, I'm 22 and obviously a bike is appealing. I wouldn't go out on the road if I thought I was a danger to myself or anyone else. I've been driving for a while now (as long as a provisional lasts before it expires), and I'm the only one in my family without any points or incidents.

But yeh looking into it a bit more I think I have to do the theory test again and get a seperate license

Edit: ofcourse I'd get lessons, I wouldn't dream of going out on the road completely unprepared.. I think they call that suicide lol

Tomohawk

Hi, here's how much biking costs me a year, it might give you an idea about future costs.

Yearly Running Costs
Insurance €265.00 - 7 yrs NCB, 43, 2 bikes, 0 points, Dublin.
Tax €56.00
2 stroke oil €48.00 - 4 bottles a year
Petrol €300.00 - 20 minute commute, odd sunday spin/Rally.
New Cable €10.00
New Spark plug €7.00
New Tyre €36.00
New Tube €10.00
New Rim €20.00
Total €752.00 - Over the past 7 years I've learnt to do my own servicing from observing mates fix their bikes, a Haynes manual and videos.

Once off cost of Safety Gear...
Gear Cost
Lookwell Textile Jacket €150.00
Armour Insert €40.00
Textile Trousers €70.00 - Go to Cotters!
Rain Leggings €25.00 - Army Bargains, does the job.
Leather Gloves €10.00 - Jack Nolans old bargain bin, try Cotters!
Helmet €300.00
Lock/Chain Abus €90.00

Total €685.00
So you need to factor in servicing costs and also boots for yourself...and maybe a second lock and rain cover for the bike.

I have a 200cc bike btw...I would encorage you to do a 1 day training course to start off. Hell you might even find biking isn't for you, though not many do that get that far. Too many beginners "learn" to drive on the way home from the garage after buying their new bike...

prunudo

[/QOUTE] also, i reckon you will need that ninja restricted to be compliant with the licence laws, more info here:
http://www.magireland.org/information-sheets/25kw-license-facts/[/QUOTE]

OP the newer model, 2008+ ninja 250r doesnt need restriction as it comes from the factory at 33bhp.

Not sure if its a new bike you are after but I believe that if you buy a new ninja250r from Bikeworld they will do some sort of deal which includes IBT.

I have a 08 250r myself and they are a great little bike for learning on

Cuddlesworth

Tomohawk wrote: »

Hi, here's how much biking costs me a year, it might give you an idea about future costs.

Yearly Running Costs
Insurance €265.00 - 7 yrs NCB, 43, 2 bikes, 0 points, Dublin.
Tax €56.00
2 stroke oil €48.00 - 4 bottles a year
Petrol €300.00 - 20 minute commute, odd sunday spin/Rally.
New Cable €10.00
New Spark plug €7.00
New Tyre €36.00
New Tube €10.00
New Rim €20.00
Total €752.00 - Over the past 7 years I've learnt to do my own servicing from observing mates fix their bikes, a Haynes manual and videos.

Once off cost of Safety Gear...
Gear Cost
Lookwell Textile Jacket €150.00
Armour Insert €40.00
Textile Trousers €70.00 - Go to Cotters!
Rain Leggings €25.00 - Army Bargains, does the job.
Leather Gloves €10.00 - Jack Nolans old bargain bin, try Cotters!
Helmet €300.00
Lock/Chain Abus €90.00

Total €685.00
So you need to factor in servicing costs and also boots for yourself...and maybe a second lock and rain cover for the bike.

I have a 200cc bike btw...I would encorage you to do a 1 day training course to start off. Hell you might even find biking isn't for you, though not many do that get that far. Too many beginners "learn" to drive on the way home from the garage after buying their new bike...

My costs for the first year including tires, insurance, garage servicing, gear, petrol and servicing was closing to 5k. I did put up 16k kilometres of city driving on it though.

thomashood10

jvan wrote: »

also, i reckon you will need that ninja restricted to be compliant with the licence laws, more info here:
http://www.magireland.org/information-sheets/25kw-license-facts/

OP the newer model, 2008+ ninja 250r doesnt need restriction as it comes from the factory at 33bhp.

Not sure if its a new bike you are after but I believe that if you buy a new ninja250r from Bikeworld they will do some sort of deal which includes IBT.

I have a 08 250r myself and they are a great little bike for learning on

Yeh it's a brand new one from bikeworld. So I believe I shouldn't have to get a restrictor.

Cost wise I should be able to cover it. The yearly running costs seem very reasonable. My insurance will probably be a bit higher, (online quote of €1600 est.) but was expecting that.

After looking into it a bit more.. I'm fairly certain I don't need to do the IBT for it with my previous permit.. (still not 100% on that)

Still does anyone have any recommendations as to where I can go for lessons? Who is good etc? Really I don't think the IBT would be enough, I'd be looking for a guy I can go to for lessons probably late in the evening for multiple lessons.

Thanks guys, all the info is much appreciated. And I'll try and document getting up and going on the bike and post it up on youtube.

cantdecide

thomashood10 wrote: »

... Really I don't think the IBT would be enough...

In my case, I'd virtually never driven bikes before but I had road craft from the cage. I did one whole day's training plus a half day's supplementary training with my instructor and got the grade 2 on a school bike (about 12 hours total which cost me about €500).

I really made time to go and practise after I got my own bike on the road and I got a single pre-test lesson in the run up to my test. All of that was enough to have me standing with my full license in my hand after 7 months altogether. So I would say if you are serious about your IBT or similarly intensive training, you won't be taking lessons until the cow come home.

Alkers

So have you bought the bike or not? See what the story is with bikeworld and the IBT, if it's free with the new bike then no harm in doing it anyway. If it's not free try to get them to knock money off some gear but the only thing I'd buy there is a helmet as it's so expensive there. They do have a large range of helmets and as fit of the helmet is so important, it's good to get one somewhere you can try a load on.
Other than that, bring all your licences up to the tax office in Nutgrove (you will need the photos etc) and see if they will give you the learner permit, only takes about 30min if you don't go at peak times (early morning and lunchtime are peak times and they don't let you in after 3pm iirc). Then at least you know where you stand rather than wasting time on the internet or doing the IBT when they just might have given you the permit in the first place!
If you can already drive a car you will learn the bike very quick, if there's a quiet area nearby you can practice in I would do this then when you get lessons it's more about positioning, observation and awareness rather than the controlling of the motorcycle and you should be up to full test standard in 2x3hr lessons without much difficulty.
I have a L-tabbard that you're supposed to wear at all time but you will need for lessons and taking the full test anyway, you're welcome to it (also in Dundrum)

LookBehindYou

If you are buying a new 250 from the place with the glass front, they have the cost of the IBT included in the cost.

gipi

thomashood10 wrote: »

After looking into it a bit more.. I'm fairly certain I don't need to do the IBT for it with my previous permit.. (still not 100% on that)

Have you had a Category A (bike) learner's permit before? You mentioned having a Category B (car) permit, but not an A.

If you haven't had a category A permit, then you're a first-time permit holder and you'll have to go the IBT route. As the theory test is different for cars and bikes now, you'll probably have to sit a new theory test as well.

From the RSA website:

Do I need to do IBT?
If your first learner permit for motorcycles has a start date on or after 6 December 2010, you must complete IBT. Until you have completed the course, you cannot take your bike on the road. Once the course is completed you wil be issued with a certificate.

LookBehindYou

You need to do a Theory test first for class A, then apply for your Learner Permit in class A. Then before you can ride alone on the public roads, you will have to do 16 hrs training (IBT) where you will get a cert when finished.
Then go get Bike, insurance and tax your bike and away you go on the roads to get experience.

thomashood10

Yeh looks like I need to do the IBT too. Gonna sort this all out with the guy on Tuesday. Hopefully I'll get the IBT for free with the bike. If not, no bother.

Thanks again for the info guys. Heopfully I'll try and get a video up maybe around the end of the week.

Luckycharm

Your commute is Dundrum to Swords- obviously the Quickest way between them is the M50- I am biking prob 10 years now in dublin and the one thing I try and avoid is dual carriageways and motorways as I just find them too dangerous due to the speed all the other traffic is going at plus can be very exposed to winds etc. I would take that into consideration if you do go ahead.

Alkers

Luckycharm wrote: »

Your commute is Dundrum to Swords- obviously the Quickest way between them is the M50- I am biking prob 10 years now in dublin and the one thing I try and avoid is dual carriageways and motorways as I just find them too dangerous due to the speed all the other traffic is going at plus can be very exposed to winds etc. I would take that into consideration if you do go ahead.

He won't be able to go on the M50 with the learner permit in any case.

vinniemac

Luckycharm wrote: »

Your commute is Dundrum to Swords- obviously the Quickest way between them is the M50- I am biking prob 10 years now in dublin and the one thing I try and avoid is dual carriageways and motorways as I just find them too dangerous due to the speed all the other traffic is going at plus can be very exposed to winds etc. I would take that into consideration if you do go ahead.

Riders on a learner permit are not licenced to use motorways. I wonder would insurance companies pay out if you were riding outside the terms of your licence

Alkers

vinniemac wrote: »

Riders on a learner permit are not licenced to use motorways. I wonder would insurance companies pay out if you were riding outside the terms of your licence

If you're in an accident at motorway speeds that's not going to be your greatest concern. You don't want to be on the motorway anyway, way better on the back roads.

Jackasaurus rex

Plus you will learn more from driving on the back roads. And Its much more enjoyable. Motorways are boring and you will wind up with square tyres if you arent careful

P.C.

Jackasaurus rex wrote: »

Plus you will learn more from driving on the back roads. And Its much more enjoyable. Motorways are boring and you will wind up with square tyres if you arent careful

You will end up with square tyres even if you are carefull.

I agree that back roads are more enjoyable, but if you need to get somewhere fast, then motorways become an option.

Jackasaurus rex

yeah thats generally the case. i'd usually avoid it if at possible. if it was my daily commute i'd work the necessary time into it. make the ride to work enjoyable

legend365

Do you need the IBT to get your full licence?

(I have provisional since October)

KamiKazi

legend365 wrote: »

Do you need the IBT to get your full licence?

(I have provisional since October)

No.

legend365

Hurrah!

Looks like lessons at half the cost for me

SidinNaas

Tomohawk wrote: »

Once off cost of Safety Gear...
Gear Cost
Lookwell Textile Jacket €150.00
Armour Insert €40.00
Textile Trousers €70.00 - Go to Cotters!
Rain Leggings €25.00 - Army Bargains, does the job.
Leather Gloves €10.00 - Jack Nolans old bargain bin, try Cotters!
Helmet €300.00
Lock/Chain Abus €90.00

Total €685.00

What no boots ?

Del2005

Tomohawk wrote: »

New Tyre €36.00
New Tube €10.00
New Rim €20.00

:eek::eek:I can't even get tyres that cheap for my car:eek::eek:

What's a tube?:D

Dutch_Druid

Del2005 wrote: »

What's a tube?:D

It goes with the Rim :pac:

SidinNaas

vinniemac wrote: »

Riders on a learner permit are not licenced to use motorways. I wonder would insurance companies pay out if you were riding outside the terms of your licence

I suspect that the insurance company won't be a problem as almost all car drivers on learner permits are driving unaccompanied and this doesn't seem to affect claims in my experience. Perhaps if they enforced the law in this direction accidents would decrease by removing a lot of inexperienced and unsupervised drivers off the road.

fleet

Dutch_Druid wrote: »

It goes with the Rim :pac:

Lol!

Even my cheap Hyosung GV250 is Tubeless!

Jackasaurus rex

None of that tubeless messing for me. Wheel off, split the rim, change tube, bolt rim back together, pump up wheel, wheel back on. Continue on my way. Good old vespa

hobochris

Simona1986 wrote: »

He won't be able to go on the M50 with the learner permit in any case.

Like that ever stopped any of us...