Best RB in the league?

OPENROAD · 17-01-2011 4:08am

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

wouldnt agree but I am interested to know why?

Just thought it was a red, have seen them given.

Xavi6 · 17-01-2011 4:08am

Oranage2 wrote: »

Rafael reminds me of anderson - He looks good when he's young but give him a few seasons and he'll turn utter sh!te

This thread just went all the way up to 11

/subscribes

lordgoat · 17-01-2011 4:12am

Kimsang wrote: »

You sir are an obnoxious and extremely defensive man u supporter who is contributing very little to this thread. I don't wish to argue with your delusions. Thin veneer... lol the thread title is pretty self evident.

I mentioned kyle walker because i put him in the same bag as raf, just lacking some big game experience that Raf now has. But very similar that they are both very young great prospects.

I never once slated raf, in fact if you read my posts I mentioned he's going to be a great player and that no one in their right mind could argue with that. My problem is when people start calling him the best, same as people calling Bale the best.

I've actually had enough of your personal attacks within post. Please stick to the topic at hand.

First off Gareth Bale is the best left winger in the league this year. No one to touch him.

And in the same light RAF is the best right full on merit this season. My main problem is the only criticism any player has gotten from you play for united. Your stance is pretty clear from reading your posts in the spurs thread on where you stand and as i've said from reading your posts you seem to know very little about the type of player Raf is.

You inititally saif he couldn't defend, his tackle success rate was pointed out.

You conceded he's a good tackler but poor in the air, has poor postional sense and is small in height (lol).

If you'd seen him play before today you'd know he's actually very good in the air and his positional sense has improved an incredible amount during the last year.

As other have pointed out, he's pretty much the same height as Ashley Cole and Evra (and Lahm actually) who are all world class players.

Had you said he has a tendency to get forward too quickly, get a bit too tight to his man, is a bit over eager to get a tackle in, sometimes his first touch gets him in trouble, sometimes he takes chances and relies on his speed to cover for him, then maybe i'd have taken your views a little more seriously.

Divorce Referendum · 17-01-2011 4:12am

OPENROAD wrote: »

Just thought it was a red, have seen them given.

Im just interested to know why you think that. It wasnt two footed and he actually got a good chunk of the ball. Red card for me would be: two footed off the ground or not getting anywhere near the ball. I suppose he was over enthusiastic but the ball was there to be won.

OPENROAD · 17-01-2011 4:15am

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

Im just interested to know why you think that. It wasnt two footed and he actually got a good chunk of the ball. Red card for me would be: two footed off the ground or not getting anywhere near the ball. I suppose he was over enthusiastic but the ball was there to be won.

Will have a look at it again, only saw it on motd, at the time just thought red straight away, but will have a look when its up on youtube

Lukker- · 17-01-2011 4:16am

Bale couldn't get past Ferreira this season.

Does that put Ferreira in contention? :P

Kimsang · 17-01-2011 4:19am

lordgoat wrote: »

First off Gareth Bale is the best left winger in the league this year. No one to touch him.

And in the same light RAF is the best right full on merit this season. My main problem is the only criticism any player has gotten from you play for united. Your stance is pretty clear from reading your posts in the spurs thread on where you stand and as i've said from reading your posts you seem to know very little about the type of player Raf is.

You inititally saif he couldn't defend, his tackle success rate was pointed out.

You conceded he's a good tackler but poor in the air, has poor postional sense and is small in height (lol).

If you'd seen him play before today you'd know he's actually very good in the air and his positional sense has improved an incredible amount during the last year.

As other have pointed out, he's pretty much the same height as Ashley Cole and Evra (and Lahm actually) who are all world class players.

Had you said he has a tendency to get forward too quickly, get a bit too tight to his man, is a bit over eager to get a tackle in, sometimes his first touch gets him in trouble, sometimes he takes chances and relies on his speed to cover for him, then maybe i'd have taken your views a little more seriously.

Show me where i said these things. You see what you want to see with your narrow man u goggles. I asked if he was one of the smallest in the league. I also stated that tackling isn't everything being a defender is about. I mentioned positioning and aerlial ability go hand in hand with it. WITH NO ****ING MENTION TO RAFAEL.

You sir are an idiot and I resent the fact that you put words into my mouth. What posts in the spurs thread also ? what the **** are you talking about?

I mean what kind of drugs are you on ? Some kind trippy stuff must be some nice acid or something.

Kimsang · 17-01-2011 4:20am

Lukker- wrote: »

Bale couldn't get past Ferreira this season.

Does that put Ferreira in contention? :P

Best RB in the league if he stopped bale who is the best left winger in the league.

lordgoat · 17-01-2011 4:26am

Kimsang wrote: »

Show me where i said these things. You see what you want to see with your narrow man u goggles. I asked if he was one of the smallest in the league. I also stated that tackling isn't everything being a defender is about. I mentioned positioning and aerlial ability go hand in hand with it. WITH NO ****ING MENTION TO RAFAEL.

You sir are an idiot and I resent the fact that you put words into my mouth. What posts in the spurs thread also ? what the **** are you talking about?

I mean what kind of drugs are you on ? Some kind trippy stuff must be some nice acid or something.

Did you forger you said this?

Kimsang wrote: »

I get your point! I concede he [Raf] is a good tackler, Stats don't lie. although this info says he attempted 76 tackles, yet i'm sure sagna and ivanovic have attempted somewhere like 150 tackles each (having played far more than rafael this season). And their percentages are very close..

But the point as a whole was 'best right back' obviously player positioning, mentality, work rate, pass completion rate, speed all must be factored in.

and then you said this

Kimsang wrote: »

I concede he is a good tackler, last time was just for fun. Again talking about raf here so the logical step is to presume that what followed in the same post is about the same player.

You can also be a good tackler, and not a great defender. (not positioning yourself properly, bad at aerial challenges)

Also loving the abuse. Keep it up.

Divorce Referendum · 17-01-2011 4:29am

Kimsang wrote: »

Show me where i said these things. You see what you want to see with your narrow man u goggles. I asked if he was one of the smallest in the league. I also stated that tackling isn't everything being a defender is about. I mentioned positioning and aerlial ability go hand in hand with it. WITH NO ****ING MENTION TO RAFAEL.

You sir are an idiot and I resent the fact that you put words into my mouth. What posts in the spurs thread also ? what the **** are you talking about?

I mean what kind of drugs are you on ? Some kind trippy stuff must be some nice acid or something.

Are you on some kind of wind-up. This is what you said

Kimsang wrote: »

show me stats and i'll concede that too. But at the moment in my humble opinion (of course very subjective) he isn't strong or rather THE BEST in either of those. Isn't he one of the smallest full backs in the league?

That was in response to this post about his positional sense and aerial ability.

lordgoat wrote: »

He's neither of those things, he's excellent in the air and his positional sense is quite remarkable for someone his age.

So ya you were talking about RAFAEL

Kimsang · 17-01-2011 4:30am

lordgoat wrote: »

Did you forger you said this?

and then you said this

Also loving the abuse. Keep it up.

Go to sleep troll. I'm surprised they let trolls admin forums. I think your quotes prove my point quite well. Thanks for that.

Also i already asked you to STOP putting words in my mouth. Like that bolded bit. "Again talking about raf here so the logical step is to presume that what followed in the same post is about the same player." logical to presume i was talking about raf... well done. It was a generalization about full backs and the attributes they require to be good.

Kimsang · 17-01-2011 4:32am

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

Are you on some kind of wind-up. This is what you said

That was in response to this post about his positional sense and aerial ability.

So ya you were talking about RAFAEL

Yeah i said that. I said he wasn't the best in either of those. Where did I say he was BAD at those things? can you find that quote?

He wouldn't be playing for man united if he was BAD.

This is another thing I said earlier in the thread which can definitely shed some light on the matter;

I have learned to make light of man u supporter comments because they become increasingly hysterical with regards their own players.

Yes i was talking about RAF, but rather the subject matter that is in dispute...

lordgoat · 17-01-2011 4:34am

Kimsang wrote: »

Go to sleep troll. I'm surprised they let trolls admin forums. I think your quotes prove my point quite well. Thanks for that.

Also i already asked you to STOP putting words in my mouth. Like that bolded bit. "Again talking about raf here so the logical step is to presume that what followed in the same post is about the same player." logical to presume i was talking about raf... well done. It was a generalization about full backs and the attributes they require to be good.

Lol, you should stop responding, it's getting tiresome.

Your posts and views are contradictory and i'm tired of this, but keep the abuse coming.

Divorce Referendum · 17-01-2011 4:37am

Kimsang wrote: »

Yeah i said that. I said he wasn't the best in either of those. Where did I say he was BAD at those things? can you find that quote?

He wouldn't be playing for man united if he was BAD.

No the question was whether you were talking about Rafael or not. Now you have admitted it. You mentioned bad just now, I never implied you said that. Not strong is what you said i think.

Jax Teller · 17-01-2011 4:37am

“Banned in the morning, You’re getting banned in the morning”

Kimsang · 17-01-2011 4:41am

lordgoat wrote: »

Lol, you should stop responding, it's getting tiresome.

Your posts and views are contradictory and i'm tired of this, but keep the abuse coming.

yeah and continue being a troll that derails threads because you're a fanatical hysterical idiot.

I'm gonna state my point once more because you lack the intelligence to understand mayebe this time it will sink in.

You say you have a problem because i criticize only man U players. The only Man U player i criticized was JOS because he has played total crap this year.

With regards rafael i said he was goign to be a great player but by no means is the best RB at the moment.

I generalized about what characteristics Full backs need, and you say I'm criticizing rafael. That's moronic. I said he wasn't THE BEST and if this statement offends you - you have problems and probably need help. This is a objective discussion about the best RB in the league and you've added very little to the thread.

Divorce Referendum · 17-01-2011 4:43am

keysersoze_88 wrote: »

“Banned in the morning, You’re getting banned in the morning”

Lol. He is giving an awful lot of abuse for a lad that is on boards three years.

Kimsang · 17-01-2011 4:44am

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

No the question was whether you were talking about Rafael or not. Now you have admitted it. You mentioned bad just now, I never implied you said that. Not strong is what you said i think.

that goat guy said i criticized (called bad ??? different english) rafael. i was replying to him . apologies for the mix up.

And in the same light RAF is the best right full on merit this season. My main problem is the only criticism any player has gotten from you play for united.

(to quote the goat)

I'm defending my criticism of Rafael.

Divorce Referendum · 17-01-2011 4:48am

Kimsang wrote: »

that goat guy said i criticized (called bad ??? different english) rafael. i was replying to him . apologies for the mix up.

(to quote the goat)

I'm defending my criticism of Rafael.

No problem but you did give the chap an awful lot of abuse and some of your posts are a little conradictory. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but calling someone retarded and such in response to theirs is poor form. I wouldnt be surprised if you are banned or minimum infracted.

Kimsang · 17-01-2011 4:48am

I don't mind getting banned for abuse. I think the abuse I gave was quite rightly justified. I also think that idiot should be banned for trolling and de-railing the thread as it was quite clear what he was doing.

you're probably right though divorce..

He did start it though with the personal attacks.

Your knowledge of both is poor, probably because you only see united when they play your team twice a year

do you even know anything about Raf other than he plays at RB

I'd pick the best full back out of the two regardless of what height he was. Idiotic example.

No point in arguing with people that don't know what they're talking about.

Divorce Referendum · 17-01-2011 5:00am

Kimsang wrote: »

I don't mind getting banned for abuse. I think the abuse I gave was quite rightly justified. I also think that idiot should be banned for trolling and de-railing the thread as it was quite clear what he was doing.

you're probably right though divorce..

He did start it though with the personal attacks.

Ok well fair enough. I wouldnt really compare that to your rant like abuse though, but the report post button is there for a reason. Use it if you deem it necessary.

Oranage2 · 17-01-2011 5:04am

So now can we get back on topic?

Rafael as far as right backs go is very average if not poor - He's wild in the tackles, poor awareness, struggles positioningly. but because he's so young he can improve but i doubt to the stadard of an United full back!

Kimsang · 17-01-2011 5:08am

OO I have to disagree orange :P

I think he can be very good, his balls skills and hunger for the game a long with a wide array of mentors he could end up one of the best.

Who do you think is the best playing at the moment? I think spurs' trio of hutton/corluka/walker is the best combination of right backs! Shouldn't be stuck in that position anyway.

Nemanja91 · 17-01-2011 5:09am

Statistically he has been the best right back in the league.

Divorce Referendum · 17-01-2011 5:11am

Oranage2 wrote: »

So now can we get back on topic?

Rafael as far as right backs go is very average if not poor - He's wild in the tackles, poor awareness, struggles positioningly. but because he's so young he can improve but i doubt to the stadard of an United full back!

But sure he is first choice full back at the moment so he is the standard of a united full back. That is a big flaw in your opinion. If he wasnt up to standard he would be costing united points and wouldnt be playing. By the way your description sounds like Fabio

. Sure you aint confused?

Kimsang · 17-01-2011 5:11am

What data do you use to compile the stats of the best RB?

You can't use tackles % alone surely!

Lukker- · 17-01-2011 5:14am

He's only played 12 games this season.

He's definitely a good prospect, but best RB in the league, not a chance.

Nemanja91 · 17-01-2011 5:16am

Kimsang wrote: »

What data do you use to compile the stats of the best RB?
You can't use tackles % alone surely!

There was a link posted in the United Team thread about a weak back with all the statistics, if I wasn't on my phone I would go look for it.

Oranage2 · 17-01-2011 5:19am

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

But sure he is first choice full back at the moment so he is the standard of a united full back. That is a big flaw in your opinion. If he wasnt up to standard he would be costing united points and wouldnt be playing. By the way your description sounds like Fabio . Sure you aint confused?

He Cost united a champion league

Divorce Referendum · 17-01-2011 5:26am

Oranage2 wrote: »

He Cost united a champion league

Really so United would have waltzed in to the final and beaten Inter Milan handy enough. There was alot more to blame on the night as well as Rafaels sending off. By the way that has nothing to do with your original point. Lots of great man utd players have done similar things in the champions league.

ciaran76 · 17-01-2011 5:46am

So far in the season the best Rb's or maybe the most consistent have been :
Zabaleta
Hutton
Ivanovic
Rafael

Liam O · 17-01-2011 6:24am

Kimsang wrote: »

are you serious? the only question put to me was name his shocking defensive displays before this season .... ?!!???

I mean a blind goat could see would have noticed. Unfortunately I don't catagloue my man u games by date and performances of players.

The thread at hand however is about "BEST RB IN THE LEAGUE" so i'm trying not to drag this too far off topic.

I have learned to make light of man u supporter comments because they become increasingly hysterical with regards their own players.

first of all, stop that please

second, how is that hysterical? JOS was probably the 2nd best RB in the league last season and now Rafael has taken his place. While atm he can't really be considered as in the running imo because he hasn't been playing, ability wise he is up there and I'm sure Lorgoat's post was made slightly in jest as well.

Mister men · 17-01-2011 8:54am

Martin Kelly

Pepe LeFrits · 17-01-2011 9:25am

Sagna hasn't declined at all. Seems to be a popularly held opinion and I've no idea where it comes from. He wasn't as good in his second season (possibly due to the mythical effect, possibly due to his brother's death, who knows) but since then he's been the rock that I wish the three defenders beside him could only be. Gets up and down the flank when appropriate and puts in some lovely crosses.

homerjay2005 · 17-01-2011 9:35am

Oranage2 wrote: »

Carr > Rafael

looks for the "what the f*ck did he just say" smilie, this one just doesnt do that statment justice:eek::eek::eek:.....oh lordy....

RasTa · 17-01-2011 9:52am

Gary Neville obviously.

RichieLawlor · 17-01-2011 10:56am

RasTa wrote: »

Gary Neville obviously.

None of today's right backs can hold a candle to the likes of Paul Parker, Lee Dixon or Gary Kelly

Handsome Bob · 17-01-2011 11:01am

Glen Johnson.

:pac:

SlickRic · 17-01-2011 11:25am

you can't reasonably call Rafael the best yet; even though he is looking excellent.

he deos play in the best defence though, which helps.

IMO, the answer is quite plainly Sagna.

followed by Ivanovic (when he's not CB).

then a straight fight between Raf and Zab.

Hulk Hands · 17-01-2011 11:43am

Oranage2 wrote: »

Rafael reminds me of anderson - He looks good when he's young but give him a few seasons and he'll turn utter sh!te

Explain your logic behind this one? Anderson had a good first season and has been poor since. (Although showing some promise of late)

Rafael in turn has consistently improved over each passing season, resulting in nailing down a starting spot this year, and being one of United's best players.

The best in the league is either Ivanovic or Rafael. Ivanovic is steadier in defense, with Rafael providing more threat going forward. Either way, it's only a matter of time until Rafael is considered the best in the world. 3 years is my guess.

smokedeels · 17-01-2011 11:45am

Oranage2 wrote: »

He Cost united a champion league

The debate is “who is the best RB in the league” not “Why did United get knocked of the CL, last season” but it’s worth noting how well he dealt with Ribery prior to his red card.

The lads been top-class this season, you’ve clearly got an anti-United bias and you're therefore clutching at straws to avoid giving him his due.

Imo Ivanonic might be the best RB in the league, but he’s played at CB a lot due to Chelsea’s injury problems, Rafael has been the best RB this season and one of the stand-out young performers in the league.

Ush1 · 17-01-2011 11:51am

Sagna.

Hank Scorpio · 17-01-2011 12:00pm

Cant see how people can put Rafael ahead of Sagna and Ivanovic

Maybe in a couple seasons, he definately has great potential

bookie basher · 17-01-2011 12:04pm

i think sagna is the best at the moment, he is solid defensively & decent going forward, ivanovic is more of a centre back & has played mostly centre back for chelsea this season, rafael still has alot to learn he's way too rash, when he's fit i think bosingwa is very good going forward maybe the best attacking full back in the league

SlickRic · 17-01-2011 12:14pm

nuxxx wrote: »

Cant see how people can put Rafael ahead of Sagna and Ivanovic

the same reason some Liverpool fans are putting Martin Kelly somewhere in there.

LuckyLloyd · 17-01-2011 12:27pm

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Sagna hasn't declined at all. Seems to be a popularly held opinion and I've no idea where it comes from. He wasn't as good in his second season (possibly due to the mythical effect, possibly due to his brother's death, who knows) but since then he's been the rock that I wish the three defenders beside him could only be. Gets up and down the flank when appropriate and puts in some lovely crosses.

I find it rather hilarious. It seems that in the Premiership you're either hyped or you're not. And the hype machine being there or not has little or nothing to do with your performances.

People wheeling out tackling percentage stats (and I like my stats) as a final say on who is the best right back are pretty funny. If I had a choice of any right back to start a big game on Saturday I'd go with:

Sagna
Zabaleta
Phil Neville

In that order. Three rock solid players - the first two of which are extremely capable of hurting teams up the pitch.

Rafael will be a very, very good player. But he's got rough edges to his game yet.

Johner · 17-01-2011 12:33pm

Ivanovic and Sagna.

Rafael has the potential to be the best RB in the league but people can't seriously think he is already.

17-01-2011 12:33pm

epic thread

/unsubscribes

eagle eye · 17-01-2011 12:36pm

Well imo its Ivanovic by a country mile. Far and away the best RB in the league.

After him there is a bunch who are very decent.

I gotta say I really like Phil Neville too. Rafael has certainly come on a lot this year. Sagna is what he is, decent but will never be a great one. Bosingwa is another really good one, just back from injury and while he is only the second best on his team he could well be the second best in the league too. I like Zabaleta too. And Alan Hutton has been pretty impressive this season too.

For me its

1. Ivanovic
2. Bosingwa
3. Phil Neville
4. Rafael da Silva
5. Zabaleta

Honourable mentions also for Stephen Carr and Michel Salgado.

Boskowski · 17-01-2011 12:47pm

lordgoat wrote: »

JOS is possibly the second best RB in the league, after RAF. If you want some proof, you can check his medals bag.

JOS has been a passenger at the best of times and hardly gets a game with the reserves these days.

JOS can not take a man on and he has no pace and very little ability. He's a solid destroyer and he's tall and he never kicks up a fuzz. Thats what keeps him alive at United. Going by footballing ability he's just about a Premiership player.

Look at him when he's playing for Ireland. Normally you would expect guidance and leadership and oozing confidence out of a guy who has established himself for many years at one of the most successful clubs in the world. Yet there is none of that when he plays at international level. He is playing the same quiet squad player role - solid backpasser is what I'd call it - that he plays at United.

Sagna & Ivanovic. Rafael is a big time talent - I guess he will be the best at some stage if United can hold on to him - but not quite there yet.

Best RB in the league?

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