Homeopathy at best a placebo - At worst a dangerous practice

Grawns

I'm a genuinely freaked out by parents coming on boards and saying how they are substituting medical advice for homeopathic treatments.

I know this has come up before but I am worried that some parents have the belief that it is a useful treatment for babies. My own Mother is a big fan but even she listened to her Doctors when she was diagnosed with bowel cancer. BTW she had been treating the symptoms with homeopathic pills :eek: as she had no faith in her doctor. She now has a colostomy bag for life and is back taking her sugar pills, along with her presecibed medications.

Anyway my point is take homeopathic remedies yourself if you wish but don't risk your child's health. If your child has a chronic cough or failure to thrive - reflux whatever - do something useful. Seek a specialist, have allergy testing done, change doctors. You can give them whatever homeopathic treatments you wish but not as a substitute for a proven treatment.

"Plenty of studies show how homeopathy can work; many show how prayer or psychic distance healing can work, too. Homeopathy is rather effective for ailments that go away on their own, such as diarrhea and colds"

Here is a very sobering article about the death of a child in Japan.

Rant over - Blue Monday

Das Kitty

My mother is the same. She was spending €150+ per month on homeopathic treatments for menopausal symptoms that were having no effect. She paid a packet to see a woman in Clare who would assess her. Nothing worked but the cheap little HRT patch. She doesn't trust doctors.

The last day she told me she was going to go to an iridologist to advise her on her diet. So I took a look at her eyes and advised her to cut out wheat and dairy and asked her for €100.

She was never one for doctors though, I remember getting an insect bite on my leg when I was 14 and getting severely infected and blood poisoning and all I got was a baking soda poultice! I literally could have died had I not taken action myself.

It's fraud IMO and I think it's disgusting that companies like Boots still stock this crap even though they agree that it has no effect.

cynder

I agree with you on that one,

about a month ago we got a phone call from America (old friend) their child is autistic and they have been seeing a guy in Canada who does homeopathy and has given this child a substance to take and says it will 99% cure him. The boy has improved somewhat but nothing can cure autism his improvement is probably down to techniques used to educate the boy. He phoned us as he thought we might want our lad to see him, i brushed it off straight away but my hubby was intrigued.


Anyway we got talking to another friend a week later and he said our mutual friend in America is delusional (convincing himself that the child is getting better) and that the child hasn't made much progress at all and that the homeopath guy is just after the money. As i thought.

smokingman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RstwLzikmvA

CrazyRabbit

What I don't understand is why parents would completely disregard traditional medical treatment. If they had any intelligence, they would at least use both methods. That way, regardless of which treatment actually worked, it would still have a beneficial effect.

lynski

It is quite unlikely homeopathy has ever killed anyone.
Death due to vitamin K deficiency, in that Japanese case, is caused by a bad practitioner not by the method they practice.
Just like in the many thousands of cases where humans die from various treatable causes - traditional medicine didn't 'kill them', it was poor practice that killed them.
Poor parenting and poor care killed that child, just like the children of Vegan parents died because their parents were stupid, not because they were Vegan.
With all medicines, parental care is the most important component, western medicine can harm children also - just ask the parents of the dead 6yr old meningitis victim here who listened to the doctor who told them their little girl had swine flu or the parents of a baby who's doctors told his mother she was too stressed and there was nothing wrong with her son except for colic, until they found the fatal cancer.
Links
http://www.rubyayoub.com/
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/inquiry-finds-serious-failings-in-treatment-of-baby-adam-134879.html
Western medicine is not immune to recommending homeopathy when it suits them - Go to any pharmacy in Ireland today and look for a teething or cough remedy for your under 6 mths old - they will hand you a homeopathic remedy, in fact your child must be over 1 before there is any other cough remedy recommended - even herbal. And for teething, excluding Calpol, there is actually nothing else until your child is 2.
If parents as sensible and look to a holistic approach then there is no need to exclude homeopathy, acupuncture or whatever you think help. Remember, in most cases ,

The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.
Voltaire

Instead of simply dissing things out of hand why not encourage parents to be more aware of their children and their medical practitioners?

28064212

lynski wrote: »

If parents as sensible and look to a holistic approach then there is no need to exclude homeopathy, acupuncture or whatever you think help. Remember, in most cases ,

There is no situation where homeopathy will make any difference. Ever (or at least until there is the remotest bit of evidence that it has any effect whatsoever). Which is fine. The problem occurs when parents think doing 'something' is the important part, not what that 'something' actually is. If evidence-based medicine is the only option, very few parents will choose nothing. But if homeopathy is peddled as a viable option, some parents will think that is all the 'something' they need to do

1. Nothing
2. Medicine
3. Homeopathy + Medicine
4. Homeopathy alone

Options 2 and 3 have identical results. So do options 1 and 4. But no-one is out there peddling 1 as an option. The same can not be said for 4

Grawns

lynski wrote: »

It is quite unlikely homeopathy has ever killed anyone.

Well IMHO it nearly killed my Mother

byhookorbycrook

http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

Chuchoter

I think they should ban homeopathy to be honest. They are nothing better than modern day snake oil sellers, taking peoples money to cure things that can cure themselves and misleading sick people into thinking this 'medicine' can help them. It has been proven over and over that it is a fraud, but they are still allowed to practice.

Neyite

Have a friend who is studying homeopathy, and I once asked her how it works. When she said that homeopaths dont know how it works i tuned out. If you cant explain what it does, or how it does it, or how it works then dont come near me with it.

ztoical

lynski wrote: »

It is quite unlikely homeopathy has ever killed anyone.

Penelope Dingle


Of course people can argue that homeopathy didn't kill her the cancer did but it's also true that AIDS doesn't kill the illness resulting from AIDS is what kills, still doesn't mean AIDS isn't to balame.

Then there are the countless homeopaths who tell people planning trips overseas to take homeopathic treatments for protection against malaria rather then malaria vaccines.

My mums a GP and she's printed up copies of Darryl Cunninghams fantastic comic on homeopathy [with premission from the artist] for her waiting room. I rec anyone whose confused or not sure what all the fuss is about to read it.

Wantobe

The Darryl Cunningham comic pretty much sums up my opinion of homeopathy. I have french relatives and homeopathy is very mainstream in France, being offered alongside conventional medicine in the pharmacies there. That annoys me so much, I've had many 'debates' with my relatives about homeopathy- they feel if it is being offered by a pharmacy, it must be legitimate.

The worst of all was the time people were packing bags in my local supermarket for charity- and the charity was about offering homeopathic solutions to the poor in the third world?!!

loishasdied

hi all it disgusts me how little understanding of homeopathy some posters have so i would advise that if you don't have knowledge on a subject, don't post. homepoathy is not a one size fits all. it is not a placebo - it works on babies and animals. it should complement traditional medicine or be used in cases to help you're body heal itself, and it's up to individuals to have the sense to get doctor diagnosis and make an intelligent decision depending on your condition.

people, this is an issue VERY close to my heart - parents use antibiotics, cough bottles, steroids etc when there are some homeopathic remedies or aromatherapy or other natural or even food therapies to be considered. i'm shocked at the posts here urging parents to just use traditional medicine, and insinuations that parents who don't are taking risks or acting stupid.

i won't come back to this thread because it's actually making me feel a bit sick thinking of things that have been sais. i expect some people to argue with my post but i beg of parents - don't take advice from what i or others have said. get all info about every condition and every possible solution and then treat an ilness. most importantly and this is just an example - if your child is constipated - don't try homeopathy or medicine - give them grapes and water, brown bread, more water a little excercise, rub their belly!!! similar solutions for colds, coughs, even itchy eczema.

please use common sense and your love for your children to guide you and remembre there are docs there who will offer lithium for the blues after a break up without even suggesting to get a hobby, tablets for adhd without ever mentioning to take colours and sweeteners from diets, antibiotics for viral infections, steroids for excema without discussing irritants and moisturization. please be aware and good luck to all

loishasdied

Wantobe wrote: »

The Darryl Cunningham comic pretty much sums up my opinion of homeopathy. I have french relatives and homeopathy is very mainstream in France, being offered alongside conventional medicine in the pharmacies there. That annoys me so much, I've had many 'debates' with my relatives about homeopathy- they feel if it is being offered by a pharmacy, it must be legitimate.

The worst of all was the time people were packing bags in my local supermarket for charity- and the charity was about offering homeopathic solutions to the poor in the third world?!!

one of cunningham's first points where he undermines the laws of similars - this is how vaccines work! have no time to go through all of it but please people - don't make opinions on this thread go do your own research, thanks

loishasdied

Neyite wrote: »

Have a friend who is studying homeopathy, and I once asked her how it works. When she said that homeopaths dont know how it works i tuned out. If you cant explain what it does, or how it does it, or how it works then dont come near me with it.

it works by the same principle as a vaccine, or hair of the dog for a hangover. you need not worry about anyone coming near you with it, homeopaths are not pushers, you make your own decisions!

28064212

loishasdied wrote: »

hi all, unfortunately i couldn't even bring myself to read all the posts as it disgusts me how little understanding of homeopathy some posters have so i would advise that if you don't have knowledge on a subject, don't post. homepoathy is not a one size fits all. it is not a placebo - it works on babies and animals. it should complement traditional medicine or be used in cases to help you're body heal itself, and it's up to individuals to have the sense to get doctor diagnosis and make an intelligent decision depending on your condition.

The question that ends every homeopathy discussion - have you any evidence for that? Not "I gave my grandfather some water and his cough cleared up a week later", actual double-blind, peer-reviewed, replicable evidence.

loishasdied wrote: »

people, this is an issue VERY close to my heart - parents use antibiotics, cough bottles, steroids etc when there are some homeopathic remedies or aromatherapy or other natural or even food therapies to be considered. i'm shocked at the posts here urging parents to just use traditional medicine, and insinuations that parents who don't are taking risks or acting stupid.

"Traditional" medicine means stuff that has evidence that it works. Anyone who doesn't use medicine is taking risks and is acting stupidly. If you want to supplement that with water, go nuts, but actively encouraging people to stay away from proven treatments is incredibly irresponsible. And incidentally, a diet change is a medical treatment, as is doing nothing.

loishasdied wrote: »

most importantly and this is just an example - if your child is constipated - don't try homeopathy or medicine - give them grapes and water, brown bread, more water a little excercise, rub their belly!!! similar solutions for colds, coughs, even itchy eczema.

So rather than take your child to a doctor to find out if they might have a bowel obstruction, asthma, meningitis or any one of a hundred other serious conditions of which constipation, colds and coughs are symptoms, your advice is "have some fibre"?

loishasdied wrote: »

it works by the same principle as a vaccine, or hair of the dog for a hangover

It works nothing like a vaccine, and suggesting it does is disgraceful.

loishasdied

grindelwald wrote: »

I agree with you on that one,

about a month ago we got a phone call from America (old friend) their child is autistic and they have been seeing a guy in Canada who does homeopathy and has given this child a substance to take and says it will 99% cure him. The boy has improved somewhat but nothing can cure autism his improvement is probably down to techniques used to educate the boy. He phoned us as he thought we might want our lad to see him, i brushed it off straight away but my hubby was intrigued.


Anyway we got talking to another friend a week later and he said our mutual friend in America is delusional (convincing himself that the child is getting better) and that the child hasn't made much progress at all and that the homeopath guy is just after the money. As i thought.

very possibe - but you can not tar all homeopaths, doctors or people with same brush as another~!!! your friend knows her child and noone else has the right to cast jusdgment unless they spend as much time with the child as the parents. am sure you will agree noone else can know your child as you do,m it's the parents that will see the little differences tht may be making their lives somewhat easier

loishasdied

Grawns wrote: »

Well IMHO it nearly killed my Mother

your mother made her own choices as everyone has the right to do. if homeopathy nearly killed her, i think you can attribute some of the blame to not having faith in her doctor. i hope your mam is doing well and that my comments don't come across in any way insensitive. all im saying is that people make their own choices, hopefully well informed and i believe there is a place for homeopaths although i definitely acknowledge the importance of doctors particularily for diagnosis and any serious ilness

loishasdied

28064212 wrote: »

The question that ends every homeopathy discussion - have you any evidence for that? Not "I gave my grandfather some water and his cough cleared up a week later", actual double-blind, peer-reviewed, replicable evidence. no i don't all i have is experience, just like those who claim it's dangerous


"Traditional" medicine means stuff that has evidence that it works. Anyone who doesn't use medicine is taking risks and is acting stupidly. If you want to supplement that with water, go nuts, but actively encouraging people to stay away from proven treatments is incredibly irresponsible. And incidentally, a diet change is a medical treatment, as is doing nothing.ing

medicine is not always required. there is such a thing of over prescribing. i am not against doctors by any means but not everything needs MEDICATION


sorry i put my responses at the end of your paragraphs. don't know how to do that, am not used to debating on this. will try fix it no by copy and pasting

So rather than take your child to a doctor to find out if they might have a bowel obstruction, asthma, meningitis or any one of a hundred other serious conditions of which constipation, colds and coughs are symptoms, your advice is "have some fibre"? i think most good doctors will agree. i am not talking about chronic conditions - of course if it goes on too long, gets worse or happens a lot go get checked out


It works nothing like a vaccine, and suggesting it does is disgraceful.

it puts a small amount of toxin, virus, bacteria or whatever into your system to allow your immune system to deal with it and therefore be able to fight it - it is like a vaccine

all i want is people to get information, even from the doctor - even ask for other solutions like i've suggested - im not saying go to a homeopath - i'm saying in a minor condition ask doctor if they would reccomend natural treatments, see what they say

loishasdied

i have most certainly not actively encouraged people to stay away from medicine, i'm saying that not even a doctor would recommend taking medicine for every little snuffle we have.

sorry i cannot fix the last post. i've basically put my answers on the end of each of your paragraphs where i'v quoted you, sorry about inconvenience of this

Oryx

loishasdied wrote: »

it puts a small amount of toxin, virus, bacteria or whatever into your system to allow your immune system to deal with it and therefore be able to fight it - it is like a vaccine

It absolutely does not. Homeopathic medicine is created by massively diluting minute quantities of 'whatever' substance in water, this is done repeatedly till there is basically none of the substance left in the dilution. (This has been proven and is admitted by homeopaths who maintain the more it is diluted the stronger it is) The efficacy of this dilution is explained by homeopaths as water retaining the 'memory' of the substance. The water is then dropped onto a sugar pill, where it dries in. (Evaporates, in other words). Please, explain to me how that is supposed to have any effect at all on the body?

Stercus Accidit

Homeopathic remedies are so diluted that they often don't even contain a single molecule of the substance diluted in them.

They are junk science, garbage, and the tools of scam artists and thieves, in this day and age I can't believe anyone would even consider such a idiotic practice, then again people believe in faith healers, crystals and 'energy'.

If you have a sick child see a doctor who practices western medicine based on the scientific approach, the scientific approach which eliminated smallpox, gave us space travel, microprocessors and computers, or you can have some water that has a 'memory' of a substance once diluted in it. How two atoms of hydrogen bonded to one oxygen can remember anything is beyond me, but rest assured, once they can remember something, they will be exploited by real science to store millions of gigabytes of data in you computer.

Homeopathy is for those who wish to dilute their intelligence and maintain a 'memory' of the money they once had in their pocket.

28064212

loishasdied wrote: »

no i don't all i have is experience, just like those who claim it's dangerous

That's not how evidence works. I can't prove something doesn't work, just like you can't prove that slapping someone in the face with a fish at the next full moon doesn't work. However, I can say that there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that something does work. The burden of evidence is on the people who make the claim

loishasdied wrote: »

medicine is not always required. there is such a thing of over prescribing. i am not against doctors by any means but not everything needs MEDICATION

Equating medication with medicine is a fallacy. Doctors will often 'prescribe' rest, a change in diet, or time as cures. Why? Because there is evidence these things work. What they will not do is prescribe something for which there is no evidence it will make the tiniest bit of difference

loishasdied wrote: »

i think most good doctors will agree. i am not talking about chronic conditions - of course if it goes on too long, gets worse or happens a lot go get checked out

And it's the parents who get to decide whether something is 'chronic'? If your child is sick, you take it to a doctor. You do not give it something which does not work, then take it to the doctor when it gets worse. And if it does get better, you do not attribute that to the thing which had no effect.

loishasdied wrote: »

it puts a small amount of toxin, virus, bacteria or whatever into your system to allow your immune system to deal with it and therefore be able to fight it - it is like a vaccine

Already explained above by others. Suffice to say, it is nothing like a vaccine. For it to act like a vaccine, the laws of physics, chemistry and biology would have to be rewritten

loishasdied wrote: »

all i want is people to get information, even from the doctor - even ask for other solutions like i've suggested - im not saying go to a homeopath - i'm saying in a minor condition ask doctor if they would reccomend natural treatments, see what they say

Doctors will recommend what works. Many of them will recommend chewing the bark of a willow tree. Sounds pretty natural to me. Of course, that's called aspirin in the pharmacy

loishasdied wrote: »

i have most certainly not actively encouraged people to stay away from medicine, i'm saying that not even a doctor would recommend taking medicine for every little snuffle we have.

Correct. Which is the whole point. A doctor will recommend rest etc. where it has been shown to work. What they will not do is recommend something which has been shown not to work

ztoical

loishasdied wrote: »

one of cunningham's first points where he undermines the laws of similars - this is how vaccines work! have no time to go through all of it but please people - don't make opinions on this thread go do your own research, thanks

You couldn't be bothered to read all the comments on this thread but tell others that they shouldn't base their opinions without doing research? Eh hello? Want people to take homeopathy serious then address the issue that people have brought rather then giving the usual vague replies.

I know Daryl Cunningham and know how much reserach he puts into every one of his comics so I'm quite happy to trust him over random internet folk. He also lists all his sources so I can [and have] gone and read through the information....please feel free to link to any proven example of a homeopathy treatment working and I stress proven not some anecdotal rubbish.

Saying Homeopathy treatments work the same as vaccines is so beyond stupid my head is actually hurting.

CrazyRabbit

loishasdied wrote: »

hi all it disgusts me how little understanding of homeopathy some posters have so i would advise that if you don't have knowledge on a subject, don't post. homepoathy is not a one size fits all. it is not a placebo - it works on babies and animals. it should complement traditional medicine or be used in cases to help you're body heal itself, and it's up to individuals to have the sense to get doctor diagnosis and make an intelligent decision depending on your condition.

people, this is an issue VERY close to my heart - parents use antibiotics, cough bottles, steroids etc when there are some homeopathic remedies or aromatherapy or other natural or even food therapies to be considered. i'm shocked at the posts here urging parents to just use traditional medicine, and insinuations that parents who don't are taking risks or acting stupid.

i won't come back to this thread because it's actually making me feel a bit sick thinking of things that have been sais. i expect some people to argue with my post but i beg of parents - don't take advice from what i or others have said. get all info about every condition and every possible solution and then treat an ilness. most importantly and this is just an example - if your child is constipated - don't try homeopathy or medicine - give them grapes and water, brown bread, more water a little excercise, rub their belly!!! similar solutions for colds, coughs, even itchy eczema.

please use common sense and your love for your children to guide you and remembre there are docs there who will offer lithium for the blues after a break up without even suggesting to get a hobby, tablets for adhd without ever mentioning to take colours and sweeteners from diets, antibiotics for viral infections, steroids for excema without discussing irritants and moisturization. please be aware and good luck to all

Well if you ever have a heart attack, get cancer, or HIV, please feel free to take some homoeopathic 'medicine'. It will make you feel better, but you're still gonna die.

Nevyn

I have no qualms with food 'thearpahy', proper herbal remedies, babby massage, aromatherphy, mediation even rekiki as being helpful but even I drawn the line at Homeopathy, esp when there is not a properly medically diagnoised condition.

28064212

Thaedydal wrote: »

I have no qualms with food 'thearpahy', proper herbal remedies, babby massage, aromatherphy, mediation even rekiki as being helpful but even I drawn the line at Homeopathy, esp when there is not a properly medically diagnoised condition.

Reiki is as bad as homeopathy. Meditation is another word for calmly resting, which many doctors will recommend for various conditions. Aromatherapy has, at best, circumstantial evidence supporting it, and using it instead of medicine is as bad as using homeopathy. "Proper" herbal remedies are part of medicine and should be prescribed by someone who knows what they're doing. I don't know anything about baby massage and food therapy, but like any treatment, they should be backed up by actual scientific research

Oryx

28064212 wrote: »

Reiki is as bad as homeopathy. Meditation is another word for calmly resting, which many doctors will recommend for various conditions. Aromatherapy has, at best, circumstantial evidence supporting it, and using it instead of medicine is as bad as using homeopathy. "Proper" herbal remedies are part of medicine and should be prescribed by someone who knows what they're doing. I don't know anything about baby massage and food therapy, but like any treatment, they should be backed up by actual scientific research

I think the real danger with homeopathy, which sets it apart from other alternative therapies, is that it is seen to be an actual medicine. It is a pill which you take. It is promoted in pharmacies, in a way similar to 'real' medicine. I would imagine most people who take it have NO idea how it is made, they think it actually has something medical within it. Other therapies such as reiki are offered in a very different way, and have the benefit of human interaction with a therapist, in itself a beneficial thing.

28064212

Oryx wrote: »

I think the real danger with homeopathy, which sets it apart from other alternative therapies, is that it is seen to be an actual medicine. It is a pill which you take. It is promoted in pharmacies, in a way similar to 'real' medicine. I would imagine most people who take it have NO idea how it is made, they think it actually has something medical within it. Other therapies such as reiki are offered in a very different way, and have the benefit of human interaction with a therapist, in itself a beneficial thing.

That's true enough, it does make homeopathy the worst of a bad bunch. However, I have seen reiki suggested as a legitimate 'healing' treatment for numerous ailments.

I had an ex who studied reiki. She used to practise on me. That was fine, the sessions were very relaxing. The problem is the total waffle behind it about "energies" and "auras" that pose as legitimate science. It's the suggestion that reiki would be any better than a simple massage that makes it dangerous

Nevyn

The thing is I don't know a single reki practioner who will say do this instead of going to the dr or instead of proper medical treatments, which homepaths do say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0