Homeopathy at best a placebo - At worst a dangerous practice

quozl

loishasdied wrote: »

it works by the same principle as a vaccine,

That's simply factually incorrect. Just like everything else you have posted in this thread.

There is NO actual scientific evidence for homeopathy providing anything more than a placebo effect. Please provide links to any peer reviewed studies that back up your stance?

loishasdied wrote:

It is quite unlikely homeopathy has ever killed anyone.

Also higly unlikely. Just like many other forms of ignorance it can kill. If someone chooses not to access modern, scientifically tested, medicines for a curable but fatal disease but instead takes sugar water, then that will kill them. While obviously the homeopathic 'medicine' is completely inactive, the user's faith in it, as propogated by charlatans, has lead to the end result. Are you seriously arguing nobody has been foolish enough to do that? It's no different from other blind acts of faith such as a someone refusing a blood transfusion or cancer treatment on religious grounds. People die from those decisions.

The whole idea of homeopathy is beyond stupid. Every molecule of water has been in contact with every substance on earth by this stage, and as the more diluted homeopathic 'medicines' become, the better they are then a single drop of water from a stream should instantly cure you of everything.

Search youtube for 'homeopathy overdose'. You'll find dozens of videos of hundreds of people attempting to overdose on Homepathic 'medicines' outside various chemists that peddle them for money. It's a good thing homeopathy doesn't actually do anything

Oryx

I think one (and only one) study has yet found any effect from homeopathy, and this test is still subject to the rigours of peer review and Im not sure its been repeated. It was a lab experiment that I can only vaguely recall from one of the many books I dipped into last year. It was the single piece of science I ever heard of that came out in support of homeopathy, and at that it was a very tenous, weak support. I cant link to it because Id have to go and search through books to find where I originally saw it. I only mention it here as I think its fair to. Though personally I give no credence to homeopathy at all.

quozl

Thanks for the reply, Oryx, but that is no support for homeopathy at all.

For a scientific study to be trustworthy it needs to be peer-reviewed AND repeatable. Studies throw up unusual results all the time, often because of flaws in the methodology, or flaws in the implementation.

Peer review is meant to discover flaws in the methodology, and repeats of the study, by other non-linked groups is meant to discover flaws in the implementation.

A one off lab-experiment is no support for Homeopathy. We don't know who did it, any biases they have, any flaws in the methodology, sample size, implementation errors etc.

This is why something like that is of the same value as me giving homeopathic 'medicine' to ten friends, observing there's no result (if there is not result, of course), and therefore conclucing that homeopathy is bunkum.

It's not a scientific study until it's peer reviewed and repeatable.

Jinxi

Like religions, I believe that people have a right to practice alternative medicines they find work for them.
Personally, I have tried kinesiology(rubbish) and Tui na (chinese massage) for physical injuries/aches that doctors prescribed painkillers for(really great at treating pain but not root of minor back ache-modern medicine is not the cure all answer either). Find yoga/ Tui na excellent. But they both have merit and they work.

I think that if people replace common sense with an alternative medicine they will probably die sooner. Whats the issue with this? A few more stoopid people off the face of the over-crowded earth:cool:

Nevyn

Well what adults do to themselves is one thing and what they do to kids is another.
This site can not allow people to give medical advice and while complimentary therapies have their place when it comes to a child who can not describe what is going on with them esp with an infant a proper medical professional should see the child.

thesimpsons

but what do you do when the doctor has prescribed antibotic after antibotic for ear infections and 8 antibotics the child is still not even a fraction better. However, one trip to a homoepath has sorted child and 10 yrs later his ears have never had another infection. After exhausting all local doctors and their variety of antibotics, the only thing that helped my son was homoepath. I wouldn't go to the homoepath over a doctor and wouldn't try to serious illnesses with alternative medicines, but do believe there is a time and a place for them.

Oryx

thesimpsons wrote: »

but what do you do when the doctor has prescribed antibotic after antibotic for ear infections and 8 antibotics the child is still not even a fraction better. However, one trip to a homoepath has sorted child and 10 yrs later his ears have never had another infection. After exhausting all local doctors and their variety of antibotics, the only thing that helped my son was homoepath. I wouldn't go to the homoepath over a doctor and wouldn't try to serious illnesses with alternative medicines, but do believe there is a time and a place for them.

What did the homeopath do?

thebullkf

Oryx wrote: »

What did the homeopath do?

cured him :cool:

bnt

loishasdied wrote: »

people, this is an issue VERY close to my heart - parents use antibiotics, cough bottles, steroids etc when there are some homeopathic remedies or aromatherapy or other natural or even food therapies to be considered. i'm shocked at the posts here urging parents to just use traditional medicine, and insinuations that parents who don't are taking risks or acting stupid.

You're confusing a few things here: this thread is about homoeopathy, the little bottles containing pure water with an "active" agent diluted out of existence. All the other things you mentioned are a different topic, and you shouldn't lump them all together. There's scope for investigation there. But this divide between "Western" and "other" medicines is a false one. Ditto for the idea that some things are "natural" and some are "artificial".If it can be shown to work, it's going to get turned in to a medicine. But that's the deciding factor: not whether it's "natural", or "Western", but whether it works!

The folk medicine origins of Aspirin (white willow tree bark) have already been mentioned; a more recent example is Gilenya (fingolimod), which was recently approved in the USA for multiple sclerosis, since extensive tests have shown it significantly reduces the frequency of relapses. It's derived from a weird insect-eating fungus that has been used in Chinese medicine for centuries - but did that stop Novartis from looking in to it? It's going to be a money-printer for them. The testing was hugely expensive ($billions), but it seems to me that it's the testing that makes a medicine "Western" - not the medicine itself, which can come from anywhere. Am I wrong to be biased in favour of tested therapies versus untested therapies?

ztoical

thesimpsons wrote: »

but what do you do when the doctor has prescribed antibotic after antibotic for ear infections and 8 antibotics the child is still not even a fraction better. However, one trip to a homoepath has sorted child and 10 yrs later his ears have never had another infection. After exhausting all local doctors and their variety of antibotics, the only thing that helped my son was homoepath. I wouldn't go to the homoepath over a doctor and wouldn't try to serious illnesses with alternative medicines, but do believe there is a time and a place for them.

Without having access to both your son, his medical records and the 'treatment' the homoepath gave people can't comment on veracity of your claims but I do find it very hard to belive that a GP gave 8 different anitbotics to a child for an ear infection. Young children are more prone to ear effections and while painful they do heal themselves within 2 to 4 weeks and as they get older they have far less ear infections. Without any control subject in your case you cannot claim that drinking water [which is all homoepathy is] cured an ear infection. How many doctors saw your child and where they given the full medical history? What were the gaps between the different antibiotics? You would need a treatment of at least 7 days so saying he was given 8 different antibiotics implies that he had an ear infection for what 60 days? How long was it between the last antibiotic and the homepathy 'treatment'? Did any other factors in the childs enviorment change within that time - parental smoking, car emissions, diet etc etc.

Saying homepathy cured the ear infection would be like me claiming I use to wear only skirts and sprained my ankle several times, I then started wearing only pants and since then have not sprained my ankle therefore pants must be a method for preventing sprained ankles.

It is water, nothing more nothing less.

thesimpsons

I'm not asking for you to verify my son's case, all I am doing is simply stating that the doctors were unable to sort out his ear infection problems. my son had 8 different antibotics over a period of about 4/5 months. Each antibotic lasts for 7 days and doctors tell us that they apparently continue to work for approx 2/3 days after the last dose. However, once son was finished each antibotic, the ear infection came back time after time again. 2 different doctors saw him over this period and their only solution was another antibotic and then grommits as final resort. The homoepath took a full case history of the child who had a perfectly normal pregnancy, birth and everything else in his history. Neither parent smoked, there were no changes to diet, emissions, environment, etc so nothing else to perhaps explain the sudden change in his ear infection pattern of reoccurrence within days of finishing each antibotic.

I'm not trying to say homeopathy is the `heal-all solution for all of life's ills'. However, its what worked in this case, and I've since heard of many parents having similiar success stories for simple childhood illnesses after giving up on doctors constant prescribing of antibotics.

I think homoepathy is one of those things that will always create alot of discussion and disbelief among believers and non-believers.

28064212

thesimpsons wrote: »

I'm not trying to say homeopathy is the `heal-all solution for all of life's ills'. However, its what worked in this case, and I've since heard of many parents having similiar success stories for simple childhood illnesses after giving up on doctors constant prescribing of antibotics.

No, it did not "work". Read this and see if you can understand why.

ztoical

thesimpsons wrote: »

I'm not trying to say homeopathy is the `heal-all solution for all of life's ills'. However, its what worked in this case, and I've since heard of many parents having similiar success stories for simple childhood illnesses after giving up on doctors constant prescribing of antibotics.

I think homoepathy is one of those things that will always create alot of discussion and disbelief among believers and non-believers.

Homeopathy is water...thats all it is, there is nothing else there and any claim of cure is purely coincidence. There is nothing to belive, nothing to study, the so called treatment is something you could have given him yourself out of the tape in your kitchen....IT IS WATER!

rccaulfield

Worst thing is actual qualified pharmicists advising mothers to give babies homeopathic remedies such as teetha for teething- how the hell is the baby supposed to know its a placebo for gods sake? Its diluted at 5c for extra strength lol. I have no respect for that profession anymore. Up north you can get calgel which has active medicine in it for the poor little things!

lynski

ztoical wrote: »

I do find it very hard to belive that a GP gave 8 different anitbotics to a child for an ear infection. Young children are more prone to ear effections and while painful they do heal themselves within 2 to 4 weeks a

HA you are wrong there! I can tell you my gp gave my son anti-bs after anti-bs 5/6 times in the space of 4 mths for 'Upper Respiratory Tract infection' when he was 8mths - 12 mths. I too had to stop and look at this as there was no way this was helping and there seemed to be no end to the prescriptions. I used homeopathy, I am not sure either way if it did work or not, BUT after 1 more incidence while taking his 'little sugar pills' and some advice the homeopath gave which was sensible but not given by a doc, he stopped getting URTIs and I did not need to take him to a doc for that again. Coincidence? possibly, HOWEVER medicine did not cure him, medicine did not even try to 'cure' him only to continue to 'treat' him at a cost of 50 quid a pop plus prescription costs, who was the money maker here? Homeopath, 50 quid for visit and 'little sugar pills' and that was that.
Blind faith in any treatment is just plain stupid, as long as it is making you feel better then work away. homeopathy/acupuncture/aromatherapy/reiki/iridology/crystals/angels/magic beans does not kill people, stupidity/blood-mindedness kills people.

Nevyn

Or the trip to the Homeopath happened the same time that the child's immune system stop struggling and managed to over come the infections and become resistant to it.

Moonbeam

I think some people confuse Holistic approaches to medicine with Homeopathic.
One being the way all medicine and treatment should mostly be approached and the other being a non proven , non scientific way of treating ailments.

ztoical

lynski wrote: »

Blind faith in any treatment is just plain stupid, as long as it is making you feel better then work away. homeopathy/acupuncture/aromatherapy/reiki/iridology/crystals/angels/magic beans does not kill people, stupidity/blood-mindedness kills people.

Of course blind faith in any treatment is just stupid and at the end of day doctors are peoeple and aren't prefect and should not be treated like demi-gods like they have in the past. Just like everything else there are good doctors and bad/lazy doctors. Some are better on the technical side but have feck all bed side manner and I really feel they need to have interviews as part of the application process to any medical course. From reading the amount of posts on different forums on boards I am amazed at the shabby service people will take from a doctor and then brand the whole health care system based on this. I would not let a doctor give a child an antibiotic unless it was very very serious and if the doctor pushed pills I would go a different doctor...your paying for a service and like any other service if your not happy complain or go else where. 'O but thats easier said then done, doctors don't listen etc etc' people moan and yes some do because they've been let do that. Treat it like any other business. If a plumber came and tired 8 different ways to fix a broken pipe and it was still broken you'd call another plumber.

Doctors like that are as just to blame as the horsesh!t homeopath pushers. However I would still rather listen to someone who spent 6 odd years in college and number of more years as an intern and x number of more years working in a field of study then some homeopath who got their 'training' via some 6 week correspondence course.

I've never heard anyone doing acupuncture, aromatherapy or reiki claim to be able to fight off malaria while I have seen homeopathy make this claim and not only encourage people to take their water when traveling to a country with malaria but to take only their water and not any sort of tired and tested malaria treatment. As Moonbeam points out people keep mixing Holistic approaches to treatment and homepathy - they do not go together, homepathy plays on scared, confused, and frigthened people. People feel better after having their 'water' because they spent an hour chatting to you which is something most GP's can't do simply because they have a waiting room full of sick people. Most GP's will tell you 80% of the people they see during the day really just need someome to talk to and listen to them rather then an medication but feel they have to justify the time off work and the cost of the doctor vist by getting some pills to show for it.

People make all the claims the like about homeopathy but you cannot get away from the plain and simple fact that at the very core of the 'treatment' you are taking water and nothing else.




****totally unrealated woohoo 4000 post***** :P

lynski

Its all well and good saying go to another doctor, there is no other doctor in my town, the only other surgery has had their list closed for for 4 yrs so will not take on another 1 patient never mind another family of 4/5.
I have never come across any practitioner who has claimed exclusivity of treatment, acupuncturists, homeopaths, craniosacral, chiropractors, maybe i am just lucky. Frankly, if they were claiming they could cure a serious illness then i would be skeptical and would not use them exclusively but that also applies to doctors, i would continue to use non-medical treatments beside medical treatment if i had a serious illness. like using arnica/tea-tree/probiotics while having a terrible infection and on antibiotics.

Nevyn

If parents want to have thier kids take alt remedies along side seeing a dr and getting a prescription that is thier chioce the concern is when they don't take the child to the dr at all.

wolfpawnat

You may not die from herbal remedies, but you can die because you rather use them than real medicine! As one person said to me before, when lab made medicines began to be manufactured, the herbal remedies that did not work were discarded and the ones that did were made into modern medicine!

My friends mum did not believe in medicine and distrusted doctors ( she kept telling me not to give my child his vaccines, that it cannot be healthy, her daughters got the mumps and everything because she would not give them the vaccines) She would not go to the doctor when she felt ill as she didn't like the idea of hospital, tests and medicines. She ended up with Cancer in her lungs and in her brain. She could have survived had she went to a doctor.

vinchick

I always think if homoeopathy had a memory would it not remember all the poo the water touched during the water cycle?

Sleepy

thesimpsons wrote: »

but what do you do when the doctor has prescribed antibotic after antibotic for ear infections and 8 antibotics the child is still not even a fraction better. However, one trip to a homoepath has sorted child and 10 yrs later his ears have never had another infection. After exhausting all local doctors and their variety of antibotics, the only thing that helped my son was homoepath. I wouldn't go to the homoepath over a doctor and wouldn't try to serious illnesses with alternative medicines, but do believe there is a time and a place for them.

What did the homeopath give the child that cured him?

Any chance it was just a few drops of water and time?

Sleepy

vinchick wrote: »

I always think if homoeopathy had a memory would it not remember all the poo the water touched during the water cycle?

The same logic applied to homeopathic principles would also suggest that any water would be an effective contraceptive...

Given that women are still having children (and even having them later in life) despite half a century of continuous homeopathic doses of the pill I think it's fair to say that homeopathy doesn't work.

gerryk

It's important, when looking at homeopathy and it's supposed successes, to not confuse coincidence with cause and effect. One of the most common errors when analysing statistics, by one who is not trained in statistical methods is this sort of confusion.

Just because something happens after a particular action has been taken does not mean that the action caused it.

I also find it ludicrous that someone would deny a 'belief' in medicine. Medicine is science, just like any other, and subject to the same scientific methods and rigor as any other, so to deny medicine is to choose, arbitrarily, to ignore the rigor of the scientific method, which is proven daily to be correct.

It is true to say that one can not trust a particular doctor's methods, but that isn't grounds to refute all of medical science, just to change doctors.

The statement, made earlier, that homeopathy is similar to vaccination is inaccurate. The methods by which vaccination work are well understood, whereas any homeopathic practitioner will tell you that the action of homeopathy is unknown.
As for the hair of the dog argument, that is down to the priority of metabolism of ethanol over methanol, and the effects of the resultant metabolites on the human body.

Dave!

thesimpsons wrote: »

but what do you do when the doctor has prescribed antibotic after antibotic for ear infections and 8 antibotics the child is still not even a fraction better. However, one trip to a homoepath has sorted child and 10 yrs later his ears have never had another infection. After exhausting all local doctors and their variety of antibotics, the only thing that helped my son was homoepath. I wouldn't go to the homoepath over a doctor and wouldn't try to serious illnesses with alternative medicines, but do believe there is a time and a place for them.

Hey look! Anecdotal evidence!

lynski wrote: »

HA you are wrong there! I can tell you my gp gave my son anti-bs after anti-bs 5/6 times in the space of 4 mths for 'Upper Respiratory Tract infection' when he was 8mths - 12 mths. I too had to stop and look at this as there was no way this was helping and there seemed to be no end to the prescriptions. I used homeopathy, I am not sure either way if it did work or not, BUT after 1 more incidence while taking his 'little sugar pills' and some advice the homeopath gave which was sensible but not given by a doc, he stopped getting URTIs and I did not need to take him to a doc for that again. Coincidence? possibly, HOWEVER medicine did not cure him, medicine did not even try to 'cure' him only to continue to 'treat' him at a cost of 50 quid a pop plus prescription costs, who was the money maker here? Homeopath, 50 quid for visit and 'little sugar pills' and that was that.
Blind faith in any treatment is just plain stupid, as long as it is making you feel better then work away. homeopathy/acupuncture/aromatherapy/reiki/iridology/crystals/angels/magic beans does not kill people, stupidity/blood-mindedness kills people.

Hey look, some more!

Thaedydal wrote: »

If parents want to have thier kids take alt remedies along side seeing a dr and getting a prescription that is thier chioce the concern is when they don't take the child to the dr at all.

It should also be noted that some 'alt remedies' (herbal ones -- not homeopathy, lol, as it is just water) can interact with prescribed medication, so be sure to inform your doctor if you are using anything other than what is prescribed.

kelle

I'm sort of 50-50 on this (maybe more 70-30!).

My mother had Agoraphobia years ago. She attended numerous doctors who prescribed her tranquilisers and anti-depressants which didn't do her any good. She was advised by a friend to attend a kinesiologist to find out if she was allergic to any foods. She was found to be allergic to quite a few, and was advised to stop eating those foods and to follow an anti-candida diet. It took a few weeks, and she felt awful when she was "detoxing" - but a few weeks later she emerged a new woman! She lost all her fears and got her life back again.

So she decided to train as a kinesiologist. She linked an allergy to wheat as a trigger to bowel cancer, so she abolished all wheat products from the house as there was a strong family history of bowel cancer. She ran her own business from home and was quite successful - a lot of people really believed in her. (By the way, she charged very little!).

Then my father had constant diarrhoea that didn't improve. And she was feeling nauseous the whole time. Any hints to go to the GP were met by fury, for which we nearly needed to apologise! She kept eliminating foods from Dad's diet and her own, she would claim there was improvement (which was probably only psychological).

To cut a long story short, they eventually went to their GP and were diagnosed with terminal cancer - they were dead within 5 months. So so sad and so needless.

While I accept alternative medicine helped Mum enormously for her agoraphobia, she was naive thinking giving up wheat would outwit a strong family history of cancer.

Now i don't rubbish everything about kinesiology, I've found having a few wheatfree days helps me lose weight - and I have a belief wheat weakens muscles that if I hurt my back I eliminate wheat and I feel better in a day or two.

kelle

Thaedydal wrote: »

I have no qualms with food 'thearpahy', proper herbal remedies, babby massage, aromatherphy, mediation even rekiki as being helpful but even I drawn the line at Homeopathy, esp when there is not a properly medically diagnoised condition.

100% Thaedydal!

I'll just post this link from 2001
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Asthmatic+'told+to+quit+medicines'.-a080528971

Byline: TOM GILLESPIE

A CHRONIC asthma sufferer died gasping for air after a homeopath allegedly advised her to give up her medication, an inquest inquest, in law, a body of men appointed by law to inquire into certain matters. The term also refers to the inquiry itself as well as to the findings of the inquiry. was told yesterday.

Jacqueline Alderslade, 55, had been a patient of Mineke Kemper, a practitioner in alternative medicine, for just 11 days.

Ms Alderslade, from Hollymount, Co Mayo, became ill on a visit to Kemper and died as a passing motorist tried to revive her.

A diary of her final days was found by Gardai in her car, Westport Coroner's Court was told.

The diary entries detailed how she was "worried" and "scared" after Kemper, from Mulranny, Co Mayo, told her to stop taking her prescription tablets.

But in a statement to Gardai Ms Kemper, a qualified nurse, denied she ever told Ms Alderslade to stop taking medicine.

Ms Kemper did not appear in court and coroner for south Mayo John O'Dwyer said it was regrettable she had not done so.

He added that he had no powers to compel Compel - COMpute ParallEL Ms Kemper to attend or impose a fine, but he did have the power to refer the matter to the courts to decide on prosecution.

Ms Kemper said in her statement that Ms Alderslade told her of all the medicines prescribed pre·scribe
v. pre·scribed, pre·scrib·ing, pre·scribes

v.tr.
1. To set down as a rule or guide; enjoin. See Synonyms at dictate.

2. To order the use of (a medicine or other treatment). by her doctor in Hollymount.

She stated: "I didn't take her off anything. The medicines I prescribed would work well with the other medicines.

"She wanted to go off steroids steroids, class of lipids having a particular molecular ring structure called the cyclopentanoperhydro-phenanthrene ring system. Steroids differ from one another in the structure of various side chains and additional rings. as she was a long time user of them."

Ms Alderslade's boyfriend Fred Kermin said: "She was so concerned about giving up steroids abruptly that she kept a diary."

Ms Alderslade, an interior designer and secretary, began the diary on June 29 but died on July 9. John Cahill John Cahill (born 27 April, 1940) is an Australian rules football player and coach. During his illustrious career he played football for the Port Adelaide Football Club and then coached Port Adelaide, West Adelaide and Collingwood. , from Ballina, unsuccessfully tried to resuscitate re·sus·ci·tate
v.
To restore consciousness, vigor, or life to. Ms Alderslade when she became ill and parked her car five miles outside Newport, Co Mayo.

Dr William O'Connor said the victim had been a patient of his for five years.

She had asthma and was on a Ventolin inhalerinhaler /in·hal·er/ (in-hal´er)
1. an apparatus for administering vapor or volatilized medications by inhalation.

2. ventilator (2).

---

in·hal·er
n.
..... Click the link for more information., Beclazone inhaler, nebulized ventoil and philmccart as well as prednisilone daily.

Dr O'Connor said she had to take up to eight tablets of cortisonecortisone (kôr`tĭsōn'), steroid hormone whose main physiological effect is on carbohydrate metabolism. It is synthesized from cholesterol in the outer layer, or cortex, of the adrenal gland under the stimulation of adrenocorticotropic
..... Click the link for more information. a day to control the condition.

The inquest jury returned a verdict of accidental death in accordance with medical evidence.

It also recommended that those thinking of alternative medication should only do so in consultation with their own doctors.

and the same practitioner was back in court in 2005
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/regular-medicine-will-kill-you-262560.html

A 49-YEAR-OLD picture framer died from a tumour in his neck after a homeopath warned him and his wife that he would die if he turned to conventional medicine.
A 49-YEAR-OLD picture framer died from a tumour in his neck after a homeopath warned him and his wife that he would die if he turned to conventional medicine, an inquest heard yesterday.

Paul Howie died at his home in Lakelands, Ballinrobe, Co Mayo, on April 22, 2003, after he was suffocated as a result of the tumour obstructing his airway. He had been attending Mineke Kamper (72), a self-styled natural health therapist living at Mulrany, Co Mayo.

In a tearful address to her husband's inquest in Castlebar yesterday, Michelle Howie (38) said she had felt terrorised and manipulated by Ms Kamper and had lived in fear and terror while her husband attended her.

A laboratory analysis of tablets provided by Ms Kamper for Mr Howie revealed that they contained no controlled drugs and had no detectable active ingredient.

Ms Howie said she had heard about Ms Kamper as a homeopath through word of mouth.

When Mr Howie complained of a problem with his elbow she suggested he attend her. She initially sent him some remedies without seeing him and in 2002 he went to see her about a problem which was then in his shoulder. He developed a lump in his neck in May, 2002.

There was no set fee charged by Ms Kamper - some of the remedies cost just €2 and Mrs Howie sometimes brought her gifts. Mrs Howie was hospitalised at the time of the birth of her son in late 2002 and she and her husband began attending Ms Kemper.

Mr Howie's neck now appeared very angry and in early February Ms Kamper saw it. Her husband was concerned about his condition and made an appointment to attend a laser clinic. But Ms Kamper categorically stated that laser treatment would only stimulate cancer cells.

Ms Kamper indicated that the lump would be fine within a fortnight. When it began to bleed, they were informed this was part of the healing.

But Ms Howie was now frightened and spoke of contacting a doctor. "We were afraid to make the phone call because of Mineke's advice that Paul would die with conventional medicine," she said.

Ms Kamper reassured them. But her husband's condition worsened and on subsequent phone calls she was chastised by Ms Kamper who repeated that she was lucky to be alive.

In April 2003, Mr Howie had great difficulty swallowing and a fearful Mrs Howie drove him to Ms Kamper in Mulrany. He was there for more than two hours and had to be helped from the house. On April 21, Mrs Howie was instructed to give him drinks of Complan, Bovril, milk and apple juice.

As her husband's condition deteriorated, Mrs Howie became frightened and eventually rang a doctor. But her husband stopped breathing and died shortly after midnight.

Mrs Howie recalled that a short time before his death, Ms Kamper had told her that her husband was holding up his own healing and was not trying hard enough.

Replying to South Mayo coroner John O'Dwyer, Mrs Howie said she had felt terrorised and manipulated by Ms Kamper. Through her "manipulation" she and her husband had driven away their own families. For this she was truly sorry and was very grateful for their continuing support.

She said: "Mineke Kamper said that if we got conventional medical attention, Paul would die and she could and would cure him . . . I realise now he was dying in front of me . . . we felt we had no choice."

Mrs Howie added: "I believe this woman should not be allowed continue operating in the manner she does.

"She hasn't the decency or courtesy to attend this inquest. Something needs to be done about this woman. I'd beg anyone attending her to get another opinion and not let another family suffer as we are suffering."

Garda Eamon Berry said he had personally served a witness summons on Ms Kamper to attend the inquest, but she had not appeared.

A statement made by Ms Kamper was read into the record of the inquest. She said she had practised mainstream nursing for 25 years.

She had studied homeopathy by way of a correspondence course but did not finish her final exams. She had given Paul Howie different tablets for the lump in his neck and believed he was suffering from haemochromotosis.

"The reason his condition deteriorated was that they could not cope at home - the new baby and a demanding husband and Michelle not being able to cope because of the delivery herself."I do not know what Paul died of but in my opinion it's not a haemochromotosis.

I have no problem talking to the coroner about what I do," added Ms Kamper's statement.

Consultant pathologist Dr Iqdam Tobbia said death was due to suffocation due to the tumour of the oropharynx, extending to block the airway.

The inquest jury returned a verdict of death by natural causes in keeping with the medical evidence. They added a "rider" stating that it was the view of the jury that anyone contemplating attending an alternative medicine practitioner should first consult a registered medical practitioner.

- Brian McDonald

I heard lots of people still have faith in her

dots03

gerryk wrote: »

It's important, when looking at homeopathy and it's supposed successes, to not confuse coincidence with cause and effect. One of the most common errors when analysing statistics, by one who is not trained in statistical methods is this sort of confusion.

Just because something happens after a particular action has been taken does not mean that the action caused it.

Ben Goldacre examines and discusses this topic in the homeopathy and placebo effect chapters in his book Bad Science. He argues that the regression to the mean (and not the homeopathic remedy) explains why sometimes some people get better, whilst still acknowledging that the psychological benefits of homeopathic intervention play a part in this.

parsi

Biggest example of homeopathy I've seen is the miraculous cure just after you've handed the GP his bobs for looking at Junior. Must be the whiff of augmentin in the air...