FoxSat HDR - HDD Failed

HappyHarry

I've a Humax HDR for about 16 months now and over the course of the last week, the HDD appears to have died. System crashes more and more often, HDD clicking, got a message about HDD not being formatted etc.

It was bought from Argos in Newry, and it appears that not withstanding the UK Sale of Goods act and the EU directive, it is hassle to get it repaired if there is a defect more that 6 months after purchase, and even worse if it's after the warranty.

UK sale of goods act say it's up to the consumer to prove the goods were faulty if more that 6 months old. Argos only give 12 month warranty on this box (other sellers give 2 years). EU directive says they have to stand over good for two years, but people have varying degrees of success with that. Even if they do agree to take responsibility I assume they will send it off for repair so I'll be without it for a few weeks and will have to go back to collect it?

Has anyone has any similar experience of returns to Argos in NI?

I'm thinking that it would be less hassle and only marginally more expensive to replace the HDD myself, and I can put in a 1TB drive instead of the 320GB they normally come with.

Has anyone any experience of replace the HDD in these boxes, any particular drives that are good\bad?

Thanks.

watty

A 5400 rpm drive may be better than a faster drive. Lower power, cooler, quieter.

Do a Google

HappyHarry

watty wrote: »

A 5400 rpm drive may be better than a faster drive. Lower power, cooler, quieter.

Do a Google

Thanks, I was thinking the same.
Did google, and found some old threads on other sites mentioning specific drives that are no longer available. Was thinking something like this:
http://www.elara.ie/products/detailsfull.asp?productcode=MME1411157&productID=S8225572 which is 5,400rpm

stimpson

IF you can replace a drive in a PC, you can do it on a Foxsat. I'm planning to drop a 1TB drive into mine eventually.

There is a great guide to it here along with some suggested drives:

http://www.astra2d.com/harddrive.html

edit: This is one of the recommended froives with a 32Mb cache

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1tb-western-digital-wd10evds-green-power-sata-3gb-s-5400rpm-32mb-cache-2-ms

shovel

I replaced my hdd in my hdr due to space issues back in november.
i used the wd10evds that stimpson linked to.the wd10eurs drive was not recommended as much

I have had no probs since.

Installation is relatively straight forward.just give yourself some time

By the way i bought from dabs.ie.

I found a good how to do it text guide on the freesat forum on avforums.co.uk

stimpson

I just spotted the 2TB version on dabs for £91. Damn you!!!!

watty

Though 2T byte drives are very very much less reliable than 1Tbyte or SSDs. A 1 terabyte drive is more reliable than SSD!

stimpson

Never heard that watty. Sounds like an old wives tale. I'll ask the IT guys in here tomorrow.

One thing I did discover though, is that the Humax box can't partition anything bigger than a 1 TB drive. You'd have to do it on linux (it's ext3) so only for the more technical of users.

watty

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/10/flash_fails_more_than_hdd/

stimpson

The WD Caviar Green did seem to do better than most. It also doesn't report for the AV-GP series drives recommended here. They are designed to be used in always-on environments and the discs listed are mainly standard consumer drives.

I think I'll risk a 2TB - it's not exactly mission critical data.

watty

I only repeat old Wives' tales as "fact" if I know and trust the Old Wife

Sometimes I'm wrong.

Owenw

I can vouch for the WD 1Tb Green drive.

Originally bought one to upgrade Thomson SkyHD box but it was extremely glitchy.

The Humax detected and formatted it in a few minutes and its been flawless since last summer.

HappyHarry

Thank for all the replies folks.

I've ordered a 1TB drive. I went for the EVDS model
http://www.wdc.com/global/products/specs/?driveID=617&language=1

I suspect the EURS model would work too, but there are so many confirmed test of EVDS I went with that. They are both Intellipower, so the rotational speed varies between 5,400rpm and 7,200rpm. EURS has a 64Mb cache as apposed to the EVDS's 32Mb.

I just hope that now I'm opening it up that there is nothing else wrong with it!

stimpson

For anyone feeling adventurous I found this. FTP server and Telnet hack for the Foxsat.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/freesat/1391484-foxsat-hdr-ftp-telnet-working-4.html

HappyHarry

stimpson wrote: »

For anyone feeling adventurous I found this. FTP server and Telnet hack for the Foxsat.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/freesat/1391484-foxsat-hdr-ftp-telnet-working-4.html

I tried it, and the FTP server works a treat.

My HDD is behaving this evening, right after I ordered a new one, typical!

fonzie01

Ok now im worried. ive only just bought one of these Humax Foxsat HDR. I love the machine and it works like a dream, but are they really this unreliable that they will probably break down in less than 2 years? And can the average joe public replace one of these hard drives, cos i wouldnt claim to have that much knowledge about such a task.

stimpson

If it doesn't get any knocks while the hard drive is being used and it's fairly well ventilated then it should be fine.

HappyHarry

fonzie01 wrote: »

Ok now im worried. ive only just bought one of these Humax Foxsat HDR. I love the machine and it works like a dream, but are they really this unreliable that they will probably break down in less than 2 years? And can the average joe public replace one of these hard drives, cos i wouldnt claim to have that much knowledge about such a task.

I wouldn't worry so much, HDDs have a similar failure rate in any device that has one. I don't think a Humax is particularly unreliable. I certainly wouldn't go as far as to say it will probably break down in less than two years.

For what it's worth, my box is in a very well ventilated area and has only been moved once (about 10 months ago). It wasn't bumped or otherwise abused.

If it does need to be replaced, it should be quite a simple and cheap job (<€70 for a 1,000Gb drive) if you can't get it done under warranty.

fat-tony

fonzie01 wrote: »

Ok now im worried. ive only just bought one of these Humax Foxsat HDR. I love the machine and it works like a dream, but are they really this unreliable that they will probably break down in less than 2 years? And can the average joe public replace one of these hard drives, cos i wouldnt claim to have that much knowledge about such a task.

I've had a Foxsat HDR since they were first released - two years now. No hardware issues apart from the overly-directional remote;) (make sure you remove the plastic film from the front of the display window and also click open the panel and remove the film from the back of the display window!). As regards the disk drive - you have got to accept that it will fail eventually. Could last 5 years, might last 10, might fail after a year.

fat-tony

HappyHarry wrote: »

I tried it, and the FTP server works a treat.

My HDD is behaving this evening, right after I ordered a new one, typical!

Saw the link for the FTP server, downloaded it, but didn't install it. Wanted to hear some reports of stable operation first - well done sir:) Any issues?

As an aside, a supposed beta release of Humax firmware appeared on the Humax website late last week, but it was a version below what is currently available. Several foolhardy individuals downloaded and installed the release only to have serious problems - almost bricking their receivers in the process. There is a new version of the firmware in the offing certainly, but Humax have parked it for the last 8 - 10 weeks due to issues in quality testing.

HappyHarry

fat-tony wrote: »

Saw the link for the FTP server, downloaded it, but didn't install it. Wanted to hear some reports of stable operation first - well done sir:) Any issues?

As an aside, a supposed beta release of Humax firmware appeared on the Humax website late last week, but it was a version below what is currently available. Several foolhardy individuals downloaded and installed the release only to have serious problems - almost bricking their receivers in the process. There is a new version of the firmware in the offing certainly, but Humax have parked it for the last 8 - 10 weeks due to issues in quality testing.

I've been wondering if there would even be an official update, hasn't been one in over a year. The lack of updates is very surprising as there are a few things that could be improved\fixed.

I've had no issues with the FTP hack, very quick and simple to update. FTP works well to transfer recorded video to the laptop or MP3s to the Humax. Haven't looked at Telnet. I always wished there was a HTTP server that allowed files to be transferred. FTP is almost as good, a great addition to the box.

stimpson

Yeah - the FTP is very quick and very easy so set up. It's a pity that the HD content is encrypted as otherwise I could use it as a source for Plex and watch recorded TV from anywhere. It is pretty cool for archiving SD content though.

Premier

fonzie01 wrote: »

Ok now im worried. ive only just bought one of these Humax Foxsat HDR. I love the machine and it works like a dream, but are they really this unreliable that they will probably break down in less than 2 years? And can the average joe public replace one of these hard drives, cos i wouldnt claim to have that much knowledge about such a task.

The Humax Foxsat is a very good receiver, whatever about hard drives, Iv been selling humax for a while now including the IR1020HD over 150 units and have only got 1 back with a problem which turned out to be user error. So you have bought a very good receiver which should serve you well.

fonzie01

Thanks for putting my mind at ease lads. youre right, might aswell enjoy it, and i guess it probably wont be any more unreliable than a computer hard drive. It is a fab machine, didnt spot any film on the inside, must have a look at that. Thanks for the tips.

fonzie01

Oh one more thing....if anyone might know a cure for this. My old man has one of these humax foxsat HDRs, and on the High Def channels, the sound is lower than the standard def. Cant be the box, must be the television, which is a sony 40w5500 (i think) Cant find any setting in the menu to correct this. Anybody any ideas? Not the end of the world, but a little irriitating

fat-tony

It's the transition from the standard MP2 soundtrack to the Dolby Digital which causes the issue. I find it a problem also, even with a separate amplifier (bypassing the TV sound altogether). It doesn't happen on SCART when you switch between SD and HD channels, but that somewhat defeats the point of HD;)
The only suggestion I have seen which sortof works is to tune to a HD channel, then adjust your TV volume to a comfortable level. Then switch the Foxsat to an SD channel and adjust the Foxsat volume down until the sound level matches. The issue is that the Foxsat does not allow any volume control over the Dolby Digital sound level. If you adjust the Foxsat volume on a Dolby soundtrack, nothing happens on the TV (or amplifier) until you reach minimum volume setting, when the sound is totally muted.
It has been reported to Humax - maybe there is a fix in the new release of firmware - whenever it is released!

stimpson

I don't have this issue. I have the box connected to the tv with HDMI and the TV to an amp with optical. I can control the volume on all channels via the Humax box. Are you connecting the Humax to an amp direct?

Owenw

Looks like the next firmware is coming out in the near future and humax may add new features to the foxsat HDR

HappyHarry

stimpson wrote: »

I don't have this issue. I have the box connected to the tv with HDMI and the TV to an amp with optical. I can control the volume on all channels via the Humax box. Are you connecting the Humax to an amp direct?

Interesting, any reason you didn't connect the Humax to the Amp and then the Amp to the TV?
I've connect that way (not sure why just seemed logical at the time) and then also connected the Humax to the AMP (Onkyo) by Optical. Humax volume doesn't do anything now, it's all done by the amp (which the TV adjusts automatically with TV remote).
I also have optical out from TV to AMP for when watching DTT.

I almost always use the amp, but if it's turned off the signal is still passed to the TV. Amp is always in a low power mode to do this, it sounds like doing it the way you did mean this (low power mode) isn't necessary.

Would be nice to use the Humax Volume control when watching Sat TV so i might change it.... will DD go from the Humax through the TV and on to the Amp without any conversions or quality losses? Or does the TV do anything to the audio on the way through? Is there any downside to connecting it this way?

Before I had optical from Humax to Amp the volume control on Humax only worked for SD, volume on HD with DD was louder and could only be controlled by the Amp.

NIMAN

Always remember that HDDs are incredibly complicated bits of technology.

They have an amazingly low failure rate considering the numbers of them out there. But of course you don't hear about the many millions of PC and PVR owners who have no problem with theirs, only the big negatives comments when the odd one fails.

Chances are if you buy a Humax PVR it will work fine for many years. You could be very unlucky and get one which develops a fault, but then so can your TV, your mobile, your car etc etc.

stimpson

HappyHarry wrote: »

Interesting, any reason you didn't connect the Humax to the Amp and then the Amp to the TV?

It ensures that all the audio is digital all the way to the amp. It also means that I only need to switch sources on the TV rather than the amp also. I do have the advantage that my TV has optical out.

I've connect that way (not sure why just seemed logical at the time) and then also connected the Humax to the AMP (Onkyo) by Optical. Humax volume doesn't do anything now, it's all done by the amp (which the TV adjusts automatically with TV remote).
I also have optical out from TV to AMP for when watching DTT.

If you have optical out on the telly then there's no advantage to not using it (unless you want to listen to the radio while the TV is on. You could have the best of both worlds by switching the Amp to the TV source while watching TV.

Would be nice to use the Humax Volume control when watching Sat TV so i might change it.... will DD go from the Humax through the TV and on to the Amp without any conversions or quality losses? Or does the TV do anything to the audio on the way through? Is there any downside to connecting it this way?

That would depend on the TV, but I would say that there is probably no processing done on the TV and it jsut sends the data straight to the optical port.

HappyHarry

stimpson wrote: »

It ensures that all the audio is digital all the way to the amp. It also means that I only need to switch sources on the TV rather than the amp also. I do have the advantage that my TV has optical out.

Thanks for the reply. I was thinking that having everything connected direct to the AMP was the best way to ensure that all of the digital audio went to it. My AMP switches automatically between TV and Sat inputs when TV source is changed so that's not a problem for me.

The TV is a Panasonic G10 which also has an optical out.
I've just tried routing things the way you are, (Humax to TV via HDMI and Optical out from TV to Amp) the Amp isn't detecting Dolby Digital when on the HD channels anymore, it did when Humax is connected direct to Amp via HDMI (and also if optical is used along side HDMI)

A quick Google turned up this thread on AVForums http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-tvs/1124135-panasonic-g10-optical-out-question.html
A poster in that thread claims that it's unusual for a TV to pass 5.1 DTS \ DD from an HDMI input to the Optical output.

Are you sure your are getting 5.1 DTS \ DD passed through your TV? If so what TV is it? (Apparently some newer Sony's can do it)

stimpson

HappyHarry wrote: »

A quick Google turned up this thread on AVForums http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-tvs/1124135-panasonic-g10-optical-out-question.html
A poster in that thread claims that it's unusual for a TV to pass 5.1 DTS \ DD from an HDMI input to the Optical output.

Are you sure your are getting 5.1 DTS \ DD passed through your TV? If so what TV is it?

Ah, I see. It's just going to a Stereo Amp, not a 5.1 decoder (my living room's not really big enough for a proper home cinema setup ). It makes sense that the optical out of the Humax is not controlled by the volume as it's like line level output. It's a bit crappy that the HD channels have different levels though.

HappyHarry

stimpson wrote: »

Ah, I see. It's just going to a Stereo Amp, not a 5.1 decoder (my living room's not really big enough for a proper home cinema setup ). It makes sense that the optical out of the Humax is not controlled by the volume as it's like line level output. It's a bit crappy that the HD channels have different levels though.

My number one wish for Foxsat is that it had VieraLink support OR that you could choose to control the TV volume with the Humax remote while in PVR mode. Volume control seems to be the number 1 beef for most Foxsat users.

Either would solve all problems for me. Otherwise I end up juggling two remotes, constantly switching remote mode on the Humax remote or a Logitech remote.

Why can't we have a unified volume control system!

stimpson

HappyHarry wrote: »

My number one wish for Foxsat is that it had VieraLink support OR that you could choose to control the TV volume with the Humax remote while in PVR mode. Volume control seems to be the number 1 beef for most Foxsat users.

Either would solve all problems for me. Otherwise I end up juggling two remotes, constantly switching remote mode on the Humax remote or a Logitech remote.

Why can't we have a unified volume control system!

Yep - me too. The one good thing about Sky was you could get the remote to control the amp volume instead of the TV volume.

And I'm amazed that HDMI doesn't support a single switching standard like SCART used to do.

HappyHarry

stimpson wrote: »

I'm amazed that HDMI doesn't support a single switching standard like SCART used to do.

It does, it's called Consumer Electronics Control (CEC) https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/HDMI#CEC

Apparently it's just not implemented in the Foxsat

It's a bit like Panasonic disabling automatic source selection in their TVs when a HDMI device become active, why? It's these little things that make things work smoothly!

watty

There are in fact I think 3 controls
1) A pin shorted that tells equipment a cable is inserted (19) Hot Plug Detect
2) CEC signalling, single pin (13) and ground (17).
3) DDC signalling. Looks like I2C bus as it has SCL (15) and SDA (16) signal pins to Ground (17)

As well as 3 data lanes and Clock lane (all twisted pair) there is a +5V.

You can use 2 x CAT5e screened cables to extend HDMI by 15m (about 49')

On LG TV you can't select an inactive HDMI source. This is annoying.

HappyHarry

watty wrote: »

There are in fact I think 3 controls
1) A pin shorted that tells equipment a cable is inserted (19) Hot Plug Detect
2) CEC signalling, single pin (13) and ground (17).
3) DDC signalling. Looks like I2C bus as it has SCL (15) and SDA (16) signal pins to Ground (17)

As well as 3 data lanes and Clock lane (all twisted pair) there is a +5V.

You can use 2 x CAT5e screened cables to extend HDMI by 15m (about 49')

On LG TV you can't select an inactive HDMI source. This is annoying.

I'd be happy if Humax just implemented the CEC, it works well between my TV, Amp and Blu-Ray\DVD a premium product like the Foxsat should play ball. I must have €2,000 of decent quality AV equipment in the corner, and changing the volume is a hassle....

Panasonic issue with HDMI detection is minor annoyance, everything except the laptop goes via the Amp anyway. Just can't understand why it works on their UK models and they disabled it in the Irish models. But then I don't understand what they disabled the EPG and MHEG5 on the G10 models either!

Anyway, back on topic I got my new HDD this afternoon but as Foxsat has been behaving for past few days I'm going to wait a while before installing.

Oh and Watty, you have WAY too much time on your hands ;-)

GeneHunt

I put a 1tb drive in my Humax this time last year (the 320gb wasn't big enough!) - I can't find/ remember the details of the hard drive now (details could be in the office), I did a lot of research on what hard drive to get last year. I know it was a Western Digital; model I'm unsure of. (If someone wants the model I'll dig it out and post it up here) I also think I remember reading that 1tb is the max the Humax will see! However, the important thing is the power consumption of the hard drive, as the power for the hard drive is feed through the Humax circuit board. (The power cable has a yellow and red and black wires see attached FOXSATHDR02.jpg) You don't want to overheat the circuit board!!!! :eek:

The only thing I noticed with the 1tb HDD was getting into the menu of recorded programmes (pressing the MEDIA button on the remote) is a little slower, but only by a second or two! But you will have 119hours (HD) of space see attached FOXSATHDR04.jpg.:cool:

@HappyHarry
If your 320gb HDD was clicking and you got a massage about formatting it, this I think sounds like the HDD is on its last legs. I would put the new HDD now before you have a failed recording. Right down the recording SCHEDULE as it is stored on the HDD before you start - If you have any progammes or movies on the 320gb HDD that you would like to keep (before it dies) you can transfer them back onto the new HDD after its in. All you need is a external case for the 320gb and plug it back in via the USB on the back or the front of the Humax. Then use the file manager menu (MEDIA>OPT+) to transfer your recordings....

byte

watty wrote: »

On LG TV you can't select an inactive HDMI source. This is annoying.

I can on my LG TV. Just press the AV button, then use the left/right buttons to scroll to unused HDMI port (grayed out on mine) and hit OK.

watty

Ours won't let you do that, it skips to next input it thinks is workable.
42LD450

fat-tony

stimpson wrote: »

I don't have this issue. I have the box connected to the tv with HDMI and the TV to an amp with optical. I can control the volume on all channels via the Humax box. Are you connecting the Humax to an amp direct?

The Humax doesn't have volume control of Dolby Digital 5.1 sources - it's either on or muted. Maybe you are not passing the 5.1 signal on the BBC HD channel to the amp, perhaps?