Shay Given

Xavi6

noodler wrote: »

Yeah, I have already outlined the reason why and it wasn't the reason you stated. Scroll back and don't roll your eyes at people - it makes you look ridiculous.

Ok I'll address the points you made.

noodler wrote: »

Given had to leave Newcastle and it was the only option available at the time.

Despite a relatively strong first season he has been ousted - that decision has turned out to be great for the club but a little more understanding wouldn't go amiss. How or why City are having such a hard time finding a backup keeper is beyond me.

City are not having a hard time attracting a backup keeper. Why? Because they aren't actively seeking one. There have been rumours about Kieran Westwood but that's it.

So, why aren't they actively seeking one? Well because they have two excellent contracted keepers, both first choice with their respective countries. Why would you change that as a manager?

noodler wrote: »

I don't disagree but surely if you have a plyer you never use of Given's worth then you sell hm.

Not if money's no object you don't. Better to have two solid keepers than one solid and one average.

It is difficult to argue that he is needed when Hart plays FA cup games, all EPL games and even seems to get in for the Europa League lately.

Hart is being rested tonight, and Given has played in the Europa League for the most part (and hasn't done particularly well to be honest).

That Taylor or someone else wouldn't be adequeate is a tough sell imo.

Have you seen Taylor play recently? Probably not I suppose as not many have, but I can tell you he was horrendous in preseason and by all reports is not much better in training. He's third choice and no more so to sell Given a replacement would be needed as Taylor is not a number two for us.

Why would Mancini, again as a manager and not a 'football man' as you say below, give himself that hassle when he doesn't need to?

noodler wrote: »

The finances bit being true - you'd still hope as a football man Mancini would have a bit of time for Shay's situation.

Or you would hope that a manager would do the best thing for his club and have two top notch keepers in case one goes down injured.

I get the feeling that most of the objections to Shay's predicament are due to his nationality, which is understandable, but don't let that cloud what is basic logic in terms of having a squad challenging for top honours - a good starting player and an equally adequate reserve.

FlawedGenius

Hart has been woeful the past few weeks especially, aswell as that big mistake against Leicester, his positioning is always poor for goals imo. Hes a good shot stopper but Given is a far more solid experienced keeper. Its just like Robinson/Green/Foster all over again, it will take a huge mistake in a big England game to realise hes not good enough. I think Mancini feels he has to play Hart because he would be slated for not playing Englands best keeper. Unfortunate situation for Given.
I mean how did Green start that world cup game for England?? Hes not even in the top 5 best keepers in England. English media jumping on the bandwagon again when a good young keeper shows up.. I think Kirkland is the best English keeper, dont know how Greene was picked over him.:eek:
Anyway Given should get the f*** out of that club and get playing because he hasnt got long left and hes far too good to sit on the bench. The longer he sits on the bench the harder it is for him to ever get back to what he was ala Cudicini....

Xavi6

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Hart has been woeful the past few weeks especially, aswell as that big mistake against Leicester, his positioning is always poor for goals imo. Hes a good shot stopper but Given is a far more solid experienced keeper. Its just like Robinson/Green/Foster all over again, it will take a huge mistake in a big England game to realise hes not good enough. I think Mancini feels he has to play Hart because he would be slated for not playing Englands best keeper. Unfortunate situation for Given.

I really don't know where to start with this.

Ok, you realise City have the (joint since the weekend) best defensive record in the league? And this defence always gets slated for having liabilites, particularly in the centre (Toure and Lescott). Now somebody is doing something right, and it's not just Kompany.

You're right, Hart is a good shot stopper, as is Given. However Hart is far better on crosses and his distribution is a lot stronger. I really can't think of anything that I would say Given is comfortably better at.

Just as the English media are too quick to hype up a good keeper, the anti-media brigade are too quick to look for faults.

I mean how did Green start that world cup game for England?? Hes not even in the top 5 best keepers in England. English media jumping on the bandwagon again when a good young keeper shows up.. I think Kirkland is the best English keeper, dont know how Greene was picked over him.:eek:

You slate Hart's positioning yet big up Kirkland in same post? Go back and watch Wigan against Blackpool from the opening day of the season. You'll see how good the glass man's positioning is in that game alone.

aidan24326

Saw in the paper today that Mancini is not happy with Joe Hart's recent performances, and has questioned his concentration levels.

So maybe Given will get his chance soon enough.

Mars Bar

FlawedGenius wrote: »

. I think Kirkland is the best English keeper, dont know how Greene was picked over him.:eek:
.

And that's why he's out on loan at Leicester City is it? Coz he's the best English keeper?!

Wingman2010

aidan24326 wrote: »

Saw in the paper today that Mancini is not happy with Joe Hart's recent performances, and has questioned his concentration levels.

So maybe Given will get his chance soon enough.

It would be brilliant if he got a chance for a few games; not a once off game in the FA Cup. Though I'd be surprised if he got a proper chance. Man City just have two very good keepers at the moment and you can't keep both happy. The same happened with Given in his early days at Newcastle. Harper was also in great form any time he got a chance but Given kept keeping him out.

I could never understand why Arsene Wenger didn't buy him a few year's ago; even last summer when he was linked to other keepers. This is one position where they struggled but I guess they have a very good rookie keeper (Wojciech Szczesny) now who will be given a chance to get the number 1 jersey for next season. On that point; Poland have quite a few very good keepers

aidan24326

Both Wenger and Ferguson have toyed with the idea of buying Given in the past but it never came to anything. I'd agree Wenger should really have bought him.

noodler

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ok I'll address the points you made.



City are not having a hard time attracting a backup keeper. Why? Because they aren't actively seeking one. There have been rumours about Kieran Westwood but that's it.

So, why aren't they actively seeking one? Well because they have two excellent contracted keepers, both first choice with their respective countries. Why would you change that as a manager?



Not if money's no object you don't. Better to have two solid keepers than one solid and one average.



Hart is being rested tonight, and Given has played in the Europa League for the most part (and hasn't done particularly well to be honest).



Have you seen Taylor play recently? Probably not I suppose as not many have, but I can tell you he was horrendous in preseason and by all reports is not much better in training. He's third choice and no more so to sell Given a replacement would be needed as Taylor is not a number two for us.

Why would Mancini, again as a manager and not a 'football man' as you say below, give himself that hassle when he doesn't need to?



Or you would hope that a manager would do the best thing for his club and have two top notch keepers in case one goes down injured.

I get the feeling that most of the objections to Shay's predicament are due to his nationality, which is understandable, but don't let that cloud what is basic logic in terms of having a squad challenging for top honours - a good starting player and an equally adequate reserve.

1) I thought Mancini said Given could not leave until a replacement came in first - that really implied City were looking for another keeper.

2) Given hasn;t done well in the CC games I hear or Europa, but as Mancini has said, its kind of difficult for a keeper to play a game here and there.

3) No idea on Taylor - I just know I don't think it would have mattered a huge deal in the Europa and CC games I have seen Shay in this season if Taylor (or another backup keeper was there)

4) In a fantasy football scenario you could keep two number ones, but where on earth do you see that kind of attitude leading? Do you honestly expect Given to see out the rest of his career out at City just because City can afford it? Does he actually have to misbehave (Tevez, Ade etc) in order to get what he wants?

5) The overriding point for me is showing some respect to a player with the stature of Shay - a couple of you will cry about nationality but the same points were raised by many when Cudicini stayed at Chelsea as they believed it was a waste. If a club doesn't even use a player then it seems counterproductive in the extreme to force him to stay.

noodler

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Confidence brought about by the fact it was the widely held opinion that it was exactly that plan that had arsenal in for Schwarzer in the summer and not Given or a younger keeper. The performances he put in at Brentford. The opinion of scouts and managers with regards to his potential.

The point being keepers at Arsenal have come and gone since Seaman left.

Counting the chickens a little there I would have thought.

FlawedGenius

aidan24326 wrote: »

Saw in the paper today that Mancini is not happy with Joe Hart's recent performances, and has questioned his concentration levels.

So maybe Given will get his chance soon enough.

If Mancini starts playing Given ahead of Hart, the media will be on his back like a light, few bad results and hel be in trouble..

noodler

Lets be honest here. Or or two howlers aside, Hart doesn't deserve to be dropped.

henke

Mancini wont drop Hart because he hasn't got the nerve to do it. Hart is the England No. 1 and has been hyped up that much by the media that Mancini dare not drop him. If Hart was any other nationality bar English I think Given's first team chances would be greatly improved.

noodler

MichaelM1987 wrote: »

Mancini wont drop Hart because he hasn't got the nerve to do it. Hart is the England No. 1 and has been hyped up that much by the media that Mancini dare not drop him. If Hart was any other nationality bar English I think Given's first team chances would be greatly improved.

I don't doubt for a second (well maybe for a second) that that was how Hart got the jersey in the first place.

However, looking at his performances and City's league position it is hard to argue he hasn't proved Mancini correct.

PARKHEAD67

MichaelM1987 wrote: »

Mancini wont drop Hart because he hasn't got the nerve to do it. Hart is the England No. 1 and has been hyped up that much by the media that Mancini dare not drop him. If Hart was any other nationality bar English I think Given's first team chances would be greatly improved.

100% on the money. If the roles had been reversed it'd be Given out, Hart in.2 excellent goalies, but hart is undroppable coz hes english.City need a few english players in their team or they'd be villified in the press. So hart is no.1 no matter what mistakes are made. Given should go back to Celtic.Back home where he started his career(before Lou Macari told him he was too small and flogged him off-idiot)

Xavi6

MichaelM1987 wrote: »

Mancini wont drop Hart because he hasn't got the nerve to do it. Hart is the England No. 1 and has been hyped up that much by the media that Mancini dare not drop him. If Hart was any other nationality bar English I think Given's first team chances would be greatly improved.

How much have you watched Hart this season?

He didn't just get he position because he's English. Hart had an outstanding season last year at Birmingham and was voted into the Team of the Seaosn. He then went to the World Cup before cutting his holidays short by two weeks to join City's preseason tour of America. He worked his bollox off and was rewarded with a first team place.

If Mancini was pressured into playing English stars all the time then Micah Richards and Adam Johnson to name just two would start much more often than they do. Hart startes because he worked hard and proved to Mancini he is the better keeper, despite what cynics like yourelf think.

Sure I can just say you want Given to be first choice because he's Irish, doesn't mean it has any merits. It's just a lazy opinion in the same way yours is.

henke

PARKHEAD67 wrote: »

100% on the money. If the roles had been reversed it'd be Given out, Hart in.2 excellent goalies, but hart is undroppable coz hes english.City need a few english players in their team or they'd be villified in the press. So hart is no.1 no matter what mistakes are made. Given should go back to Celtic.Back home where he started his career(before Lou Macari told him he was too small and flogged him off-idiot)

Would love to see Given back at Paradise.

henke

Xavi6 wrote: »

How much have you watched Hart this season?

He didn't just get he position because he's English. Hart had an outstanding season last year at Birmingham and was voted into the Team of the Seaosn. He then went to the World Cup before cutting his holidays short by two weeks to join City's preseason tour of America. He worked his bollox off and was rewarded with a first team place.

If Mancini was pressured into playing English stars all the time then Micah Richards and Adam Johnson to name just two would start much more often than they do. Hart startes because he worked hard and proved to Mancini he is the better keeper, despite what cynics like yourelf think.

Sure I can just say you want Given to be first choice because he's Irish, doesn't mean it has any merits. It's just a lazy opinion in the same way yours is.

Well I happened to disagree. Yes I do think Hart has been in fine form but I think even if he is off form he won't be dropped.

As for the other English players I think it is different because GK was been a problem position for England since Seaman retired. Hart undoubtedly is the best prospect since and I think the media are jumping on this and he is the answer to their problem. I think Hart is far from the finished article.

That_Guy

aidan24326 wrote: »

Saw in the paper today that Mancini is not happy with Joe Hart's recent performances, and has questioned his concentration levels.

So maybe Given will get his chance soon enough.

Which paper though?

Xavi6

MichaelM1987 wrote: »

Well I happened to disagree. Yes I do think Hart has been in fine form but I think even if he is off form he won't be dropped.

As for the other English players I think it is different because GK was been a problem position for England since Seaman retired. Hart undoubtedly is the best prospect since and I think the media are jumping on this and he is the answer to their problem. I think Hart is far from the finished article.

You said Mancini won't drop Hart because he hasn't got the nerve to do it. What is that actually based on considering that "Hart has been in fine form". Should you not wait until there's reason for him to be dropped before pouncing on the manager?

And if these supposed quotes about Mancini criticising Hart are true then that would suggest that he is open to changing if he has to. Afterall, he would have criticised the favourite son in goalkeeping terms in the media.

noodler

I just don't think Given can afford to wait.

There is undoubtedly added pressure on Mancini as Hart is the next big English hope but we should abolsutely wait for a time when he deserves to be dropped before going all out on the Italian (if that day ever comes).

DOC09UNAM

Xavi6 wrote: »

You said Mancini won't drop Hart because he hasn't got the nerve to do it. What is that actually based on considering that "Hart has been in fine form". Should you not wait until there's reason for him to be dropped before pouncing on the manager?

And if these supposed quotes about Mancini criticising Hart are true then that would suggest that he is open to changing if he has to. Afterall, he would have criticised the favourite son in goalkeeping terms in the media.

Dropping given was the best decision he's made this season.

I criticised him when he did it as many did, but I hold my hands up and admit I was wrong, because he has been fantastic consistently.

Xavi6

noodler wrote: »

1) I thought Mancini said Given could not leave until a replacement came in first - that really implied City were looking for another keeper.

It doesn't necessarily, it's just the terms under which Given COULD leave. If City aren't looking then he goes nowhere.

2) Given hasn;t done well in the CC games I hear or Europa, but as Mancini has said, its kind of difficult for a keeper to play a game here and there.

I agree, it's hard for a keeper to just come in out of the cold but that's just the way it is when you're second choice.

3) No idea on Taylor - I just know I don't think it would have mattered a huge deal in the Europa and CC games I have seen Shay in this season if Taylor (or another backup keeper was there)

I think that's a tad unfair to Given if anything. He's a lot better than Taylor or anyone else at the club so it would have mattered.

4) In a fantasy football scenario you could keep two number ones, but where on earth do you see that kind of attitude leading? Do you honestly expect Given to see out the rest of his career out at City just because City can afford it? Does he actually have to misbehave (Tevez, Ade etc) in order to get what he wants?

To titles. Chelsea did it.

I expect Given to see out the contract he signed if the club see him as a valuable squad member yes.

5) The overriding point for me is showing some respect to a player with the stature of Shay - a couple of you will cry about nationality but the same points were raised by many when Cudicini stayed at Chelsea as they believed it was a waste. If a club doesn't even use a player then it seems counterproductive in the extreme to force him to stay.

Cudicini was happy to stay at Chelsea though AFAIK so it's a different story there.

I don't buy this respect the player thing. Respect works both ways and Given signed a professional contract to be a Manchester City player. If he was guaranteed he would be first choice for the duration then it's of course a different story but if not then, to put it bluntly, tough shit.

henke

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/18/roberto-mancini-joe-hart

There is an article on Mancini saying Hart needs to improve his concentration. Hart i will admit has been good most of the season and it would be harsh to drop him but he hasn't been great in recent games and dropped a howler against Leicester. He also had a mishap earlier in the season can't remember who against, it was a mix up with a defender.

Xavi6 its just my opinion that Mancini doesn't have the nerve to drop Hart with all the talk about him. I may be wrong, time will tell if Hart's performances drop or we will never know if Hart impresses. I have no doubt though it was the English factor that got him the No. 1 spot at the beginning of the season though. He was third choice at the World Cup remember.

noodler

Xavi6 wrote: »

I don't buy this respect the player thing. Respect works both ways and Given signed a professional contract to be a Manchester City player. If he was guaranteed he would be first choice for the duration then it's of course a different story but if not then, to put it bluntly, tough shit.

I think you are the one with light blue goggles on now.

I can think of very few cases in modern football where a quality player has been forced to stay by his club when they weren't actually interested in playing him.


EDIT: I could really go on a huge rant about City killing football here by the way but I won't - lets just say it is a real ugly side of the money they have that they could let talent like Given rot on the bench and not care (financially or otherwise).

Mr.Nice Guy

Hart has had a few lapses in concentration this season. It's just that the media doesn't focus its attention on them unless they result in a goal, ie against Leicester or Blackburn. I have been an admirer of his since he was City's first choice a few seasons back and he has always reminded me of Given. I've always thought he would wind up as England's number 1 but I personally think Given is the better keeper. With the British media machine behind Hart though, coupled with Martin Tyler creaming himself over every top save he makes, the guy is being presented as being better than he actually is.

M5

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Hart has had a few lapses in concentration this season. It's just that the media doesn't focus its attention on them unless they result in a goal, ie against Leicester or Blackburn. I have been an admirer of his since he was City's first choice a few seasons back and he has always reminded me of Given. I've always thought he would wind up as England's number 1 but I personally think Given is the better keeper. With the British media machine behind Hart though, coupled with Martin Tyler creaming himself over every top save he makes, the guy is being presented as being better than he actually is.

+1 on that.

You hear some commentators wetting their pants when Hart makes a stop that he should be making. Goalkeeping is a little understood art in the field of commentators

Xavi6

noodler wrote: »

I think you are the one with light blue goggles on now.

I don't see how there could be blue goggles when we're talking about my club's two keepers! It's not like we're comparing Hart for Van der Sar for example.

I can think of very few cases in modern football where a quality player has been forced to stay by his club when they weren't actually interested in playing him.

Is he being forced though? As far as I'm aware the only time he handed in a transfer request was when he wanted out of Newcastle. There were whispers back in August that he would submit one but it never materialised (open to correction though). If he really, really wanted out then I'm sure the club would let him.

EDIT: I could really go on a huge rant about City killing football here by the way but I won't - lets just say it is a real ugly side of the money they have that they could let talent like Given rot on the bench and not care (financially or otherwise).

Why wouldn't United let Kuszczak go on loan to Leicester this week? He's a great keeper and would start for most Premiership teams. United have youngsters like Amos waiting in the wings who could 'do a job'.

KaiserGunner

M5 wrote: »

+1 on that.

You hear some commentators wetting their pants when Hart makes a stop that he should be making. Goalkeeping is a little understood art in the field of commentators

I agree with you there but, it also applies to Given. I have seen Given make some standard saves but George Hamilton, irish national team fans etc absolutely creaming themselves over it, making them out to be super world class saves when in reality they werent.

aidan24326

FlawedGenius wrote: »

If Mancini starts playing Given ahead of Hart, the media will be on his back like a light, few bad results and hel be in trouble..

MichaelM1987 wrote: »

Mancini wont drop Hart because he hasn't got the nerve to do it. Hart is the England No. 1 and has been hyped up that much by the media that Mancini dare not drop him. If Hart was any other nationality bar English I think Given's first team chances would be greatly improved.

I don't buy this at all. Why should Mancini give a fcuk about England? I guarantee if Harte put 3 or 4 poor performances back to back he'd be on the bench English or not.

That_Guy wrote: »

Which paper though?

The Sun, The Mirror and The Guardian all had that story today, that Mancini is not happy with Hart's concentration levels and warned him he needs to improve if he's to hold onto the number 1 spot for City and England.

henke

aidan24326 wrote: »

I don't buy this at all. Why should Mancini give a fcuk about England? I guarantee if Harte put 3 or 4 poor performances back to back he'd be on the bench English or not.

Mancini probably doesnt give a fcuk about England but he knows the media backlash he would face if he dropped Hart. Just my opinion. But as I said before time will tell if Hart doesn't produce good performances.

pickarooney

A man would be a fool to make his decisions based on how the papers will react, especially as the modus operandi of those papers is to react whatever way will sell their papers regardless of how the team is doing.

M5

KaiserGunner wrote: »

I agree with you there but, it also applies to Given. I have seen Given make some standard saves but George Hamilton, irish national team fans etc absolutely creaming themselves over it, making them out to be super world class saves when in reality they werent.

yup, of course! Although I'm not convinced our media are quite as bad as the shower across the water. As a Newcastle fan who watched him for over ten years the most impressive thing about Given was his reliability. I can only think of a handful of errors that cost us goals. Also he saved everything you would expect him to and of course he is/was a top notch shot stopper.

IMHO his finest hour was the 2 legs in the WC playoff against Iran, he pulled of some great saves in the first leg. Early in the second leg he made one, maybe 2 good saves. You could see the Opposition players heads just drop. I am convinced they believed that they could not beat him. IIRC the heads dropped completely

FlawedGenius

Harts a good keeper but City should play Given ahead of him, hes a proven top keeper, I dont remember him making blunders like Hart has recently in the last 5 years.. It would make more sense to play Hart in the Europa and keep Given as the main keeper over the next 2 years at least, Hart is young and has potential, ease him into it, but because hes English he cant be dropped. How can anyone say Harts a better keeper, he has years to prove hes even near Givens level.

population

I'm a huge Shay fan. Not because I am Irish etc, but rather because I am a goalkeeper and I always appreciate a good keeper. In my opinion there was a period a few years back when Shay was second only to Buffon in terms of greatest keepers in the world. Is he at that level now? No. Is he still a better keeper than Joe Hart? Absolutely. Is the fact that Hart is England no.1 helping to obscure his frailties? Again absolutely.

People here saying that the media opinion does not make a difference should cast their minds back to Kasper Schmeichel. Now there was a truly awful keeper, but because of who his father was, MOTD showed endless highlights of him doing the most basic goalkeeper stuff spouting on about how "this lad is just like his Dad". Utter nonsense. His dad was one of, if not the greatest keepers of all time. Jr was ****e, but the media need an angle or copy doesn't get written. Schmeichel Jr was found out and if Man City don't use him in a more considered manner Hart (who is a fine keeper with lots of potential) could succumb to his own shortcomings, rather than work to improve on them.

Xavi6

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Harts a good keeper but City should play Given ahead of him, hes a proven top keeper, I dont remember him making blunders like Hart has recently in the last 5 years.. It would make more sense to play Hart in the Europa and keep Given as the main keeper over the next 2 years at least, Hart is young and has potential, ease him into it, but because hes English he cant be dropped. How can anyone say Harts a better keeper, he has years to prove hes even near Givens level.

Given has made mistakes for City, most revolving around his inability to deal with crosses adaquetly. City's defence was forced to play a lot deeper with Given in goal as he has very little confidence under the high ball. Even the most hardcore Given aplogogists should be able to see that.

Ok let's look at the situation in reverse as you suggest with Given as number 1. Hart decides he wants out, and because he's young, promising etc, English message boards call for him to be let go as he deserves game time given his prospects as the national goalkeeper.

So you've got two scenarios:

1) Play the 34 year old who is a good keeper but has his failings (crosses and distribution) and lose what is potentially your club's number 1 for the next 15 years and the country's first choice for probably a decade.

Or

2) Sell the aging goalkeeper who has the aforementioned faults and keep the very talented 23 year old who proved himself by being the best goalkeeper in the Premier League just last season in an inferior side.

The City project always gets accused of being short term with the owners etc yet when the club does something long term like this then holes are still picked. You just can't win, but Mancini has it spot on here IMO.

flahavaj

population wrote: »

I'm a huge Shay fan. Not because I am Irish etc, but rather because I am a goalkeeper and I always appreciate a good keeper. In my opinion there was a period a few years back when Shay was second only to Buffon in terms of greatest keepers in the world. Is he at that level now? No. Is he still a better keeper than Joe Hart? Absolutely. Is the fact that Hart is England no.1 helping to obscure his frailties? Again absolutely.

People here saying that the media opinion does not make a difference should cast their minds back to Kasper Schmeichel. Now there was a truly awful keeper, but because of who his father was, MOTD showed endless highlights of him doing the most basic goalkeeper stuff spouting on about how "this lad is just like his Dad". Utter nonsense. His dad was one of, if not the greatest keepers of all time. Jr was ****e, but the media need an angle or copy doesn't get written. Schmeichel Jr was found out and if Man City don't use him in a more considered manner Hart (who is a fine keeper with lots of potential) could succumb to his own shortcomings, rather than work to improve on them.

I think you're wrong about all three of Given, Hart and Kasper tbh.

Given was never up there with Buffon. No keeper that sticks do rigidly to his line and fails to dominate his penalty box like Given has done for years deserves to be put in such exalted company.

I think that Harte is a better keepr than Given actually.

And Kasper Schmeichel is far from sh*te, he's been very good for Leeds.

FlawedGenius

Harte was poor again tonight.... There conceding alot of goals Citeh!! 7 in the last 3 :eek:

Xavi6

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Harte was poor again tonight.... There conceding alot of goals Citeh!! 7 in the last 3 :eek:

Joint best defence in the league, in large part due to its goalkeeper.

WallyGUFC

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Harte was poor again tonight.... There conceding alot of goals Citeh!! 7 in the last 3 :eek:

1 was a penalty, the other a good finish. Hart is better than Given imo but not by much at all. The fact that Given stays glued to his line is his main downfall. A great shotstopper, 1 of the best, but I think Hart has all these attributes as well. He also only 23 and recently has made a few mistakes but he'll learn from these and from Given. Unless Hart starts consistently losing points for City, Given won't play imo.

noodler

See now we are going the other way and making it seem like Given never comes for anything - its always black and white with this board.

ironbluedun

mancini has a big job to do so he picks the best keeper and at the moment that is hart, if given was better mancini would have him in first, simple as that. It has absolutely nothing to do with international football. For mancini its all about club results and he is a wise man smart enough to ignore crap in the media and do his own thing.
hart IS better and will improve more with maturity, like most people.