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price of 200sqm passive house

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    #32
    fclauson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭fclauson


    From a tweet conversation I had with him

    WolfgangFeistConstructIRL does a house get uncertified if the local of the house changes (plants grow, neighbour creates a large shadow)?

    fclauson No, the house gets certified with the conditions given at the time of the certification - anything different would be tedious

    "Tedious" !!! - So if
    · your neighbour builds an extension which overshadows you - you are still passive
    · You grow a hedge which over time blocks out the sunlight - you are still passive
    I would love to build a passive house - but the model is so finally balanced that over time as performance of the materials starts to fail (as all things which sag over time) then the build will start to under perform.

    Many of the materials people are now using (membranes, spray foams, external insulation ……..) are new and do not have the historic longevity of brick, lime, stone etc.

    So at the outset you have to build with that failing performance in mind.

    I think you just have to be pragmatic - and balance "passivness" (if there is such a verb) with pragmatisam.

    A combination of good current build techniques and a robust view of new innovation

    Francis


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    #33
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    fclauson wrote: »
    Many of the materials people are now using (membranes, spray foams, external insulation ……..) are new and do not have the historic longevity of brick, lime, stone etc
    A combination of good current build techniques and a robust view of new innovation

    In a word: No.

    Whilst some of the materials being used may be new - in this country - they are not new. And many are simply new ways to use existing 'current' materials.

    And 'current' techniques is what has given us cold, often damp, under-perfoming and uncomfortable buildings, that have big running costs.

    You're forgetting, that bituminous felt, for instance, has a shorter life than modern membranes, as well as being poor-to-middling at it's job, in the first place.

    This country is littered with poorly built 'brick, lime, stone' etc, so that's not the answer - the 'that's the way we always do things around here' approach.

    Let's not forget: building in stone is not the original method-of-build of man, in the first place.......that's something we started to do, to keep out the rampaging Hordes' iirc............:D

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #34
    sinnerboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    imitation wrote: »
    This is a point I was wondering about with passive house, and any energy efficient house really. The structure maybe standing, but will it still be passive ? Will the airtightness degrade as the glue on tape fails ? Likewise will the insulation still have the same U value ? Not to mention all the replacements that would be required, new HRV, new glazing to replace leached gasses etc.

    There is nothing under the sun that does not degrade with time. But it is surely better to start off in the best condition possible.

    With passiv house
    HRV motors - you should bank on replacing after 10 years
    Glazing units - 20/25 years ( same as non passiv)
    Insulation - some degrade more than others ( some hardly at all ) so choose wisely (same as non passiv)

    Conventional build with boiler - 15 year life. Ditto pumps stats + valves/mainfolds


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    #35
    sinnerboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    fclauson wrote: »
    your neighbour builds an extension which overshadows you - you are still passive

    Actually I foresee this issue coming "live" in urban areas over time with respect to solar panels. (New build and retro fit). Neighbour A invests heavily in panels and later Neighbour B plans an overshadowing extension.

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRgfcenAxONj9Ew28wTbV2d4kZyg9VlV7rmTzZvZs-WojSPIMGv2Q

    As for PH Certification - if purchasing a PH one would be advised to ask someone look over the calcs - particularly the overshading - if one had a doubt.

    My 2c - Should not arise in practice. A PH is for the lucky few who can self build and is likely to be a rural one off and is inherently unlikely to suffer future overshading. An urban PH will take account of significant overshading anyhow.

    .


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    #36
    beyondpassive
    Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭beyondpassive


    galwaytt wrote: »
    OMG. No, really, OMG.

    You should start reading people's post's on here. No one, no one, gets anything close to passive for only 'std' costs. To suggest you would, is, imho, misleading.

    And, make up your mind: PH is either same-as-std, or 8% more. Which is it ? :confused:

    There is one builder who won a tender job in '08 and delivered 15kWh/m2.an, although it didn't get certified because airtightness was 0.9ach. I'll stick with 8% additional cost though, the baseline figure is for turnkey architect designed spec, Part L 2007 compliance, rather than self build, cash in hand, pine and PVC bungalow builders finish. The builder I mentioned is doing EPS clad timber frame passive, which is a cheaper way to deliver passive, its not as vapour open and thermally massive as other options, but it has the U-Value and insulation, we'll wait and see. Its important that someone breats through that 'sound barrier' of passive for less than €100 per square foot builders finish.
    galwaytt wrote: »
    Secondly - we're dealing with Passive........or are we ? SAS most certainly is, and what he's gone for. PH, means you can't go past the magic 15kW marker. If you do, it's not PH. 20-25 2kW is a mere......25-30% off.........so maybe that's how you're meeting the 8% cost barrier ? By being 'only' 25%-30% away from PH in the first place. Sure, we could all do that.......
    Ya, well I've no Passivhaus certified yet, so my figures are questionable and based on tenders received recently. 8% is based on 15kWh/m2.an. Having th ehouse designed as passive from the outset helps, as external surface area is minimised, this also helps with costs. I'm sure there is more 'fat' in contractor built compared to self built. Also some contractors will submit lower contract sums to win a Passive project, to get experience in this new area. This muddies the water somewhat
    galwaytt wrote: »
    As for design life of 'conventional' of 28 yrs - Ha! - what garbage. And that's before we get to the fact that PHI was only established in 1996 !!!
    Sorry I should have worded this better, With recent fuel increases, the average house built in 1988, needs more than 10% of the average industrial income or <€3,200 per annum to maintain comfort. It is therefor not fit for porpose. The Passive house lasting 100 yrs was a guess, my bad.
    *Households are considered to be in 'fuel poverty' if they have to spend more than 10% of their household income on fuel to keep their home in a 'satisfactory' condition, where, for example, a 'satisfactory' heating regime is considered to be one where the main living area is at 21 degrees centigrade with 18 degrees centigrade in the other occupied rooms.
    galwaytt wrote: »
    And comparing cars to houses is equally rubbish. We pay more for cars (compared to Germany) because of taxation - it has nothing to do with quality, one way or the other.

    Well telly's so, why pay twice as much for Sony as for an Alba or Tevion? Equally with passivehaus, its that marque of quality you pay for.

    Apologies if my posts are a little belligerent or preachy, but I am an enthusiastic promoter of Passivhaus as a concept. I do agree with you all that Passivhaus is a consuming endeavour and a very tedious process to get certified. Sure, It's a bit more expensive, but you get what you pay for. Big respect to SAS for sticking with it.


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    #37
    KindOfIrish
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭KindOfIrish


    sas wrote: »
    I have 60m2 of PH certified windows costing 48k! last year.
    "Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me"
    F.Scott Fitzgerald

    Honestly, I can built a decent 3 bed for 48K :eek: (exclude cost of land)


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    #38
    sinnerboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    KindOfIrish wrote: »
    "Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me"
    F.Scott Fitzgerald

    Honestly, I can built a decent 3 bed for 48K :eek: (exclude cost of land)

    You appear to be new to this part of Boards. Before contributing any further please read this and this


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    #39
    rooster108
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭rooster108


    So is your house finished now? I'm starting my own project this year and would love some advice and pointers please!!


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    #40
    AlanOM
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭AlanOM


    whelzer wrote: »
    OP I'm getting a passive extension built on my 1920s dublin house - its about 70% complete. The rest of house is being rennovated "close" to passive levels. The builder has years of experience of this type of work and new builds. I'll PM you their details. Your welcome to come take a look "on site" (I hate that term - its my house!), if you feel like it..

    Hi Whelzer,

    Were you satisfied with your builder regarding his ability to construct to passive spec? Just put up planning notice for a mid 1850s renovation on the northside, and am looking for quotations for a builder who understands the concept of Passive building!

    Alan


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