Montessori keeps sending 3yr old home for misbehaving

petergdub

My 3.5 yr old has been in a montessori since October.
It's basically 9-12:30 5-days a week.

Anyway they keep sending her home.
e.g. This morning they phoned my wife after about a half an hour to come and collect her as she'd been naughty.
(Shouting / kicking the gate / disobeying them etc)

Just wondering is this normal ?

Luckily my wife is currently stay at home.
We also have a 2 yr old at the same montessori who is invariably good.

My 3.5 yr old had previously been at another creche (not montessori) full-time for a while and then part-time with no issues.

Should I start looking for another montessori ?

bubbaloo

This sounds totally wrong in my opinion. I used to work in a Montessori and we would never have sent a child home because of bad behaviour.
All kids act up at stome stage and surely it is up to the montessori staff to discipline a child if she's naughty.
Fair enough if the child is sick and there is a danger of cross-infection there's a reason for her to be sent home.
Also, by the sounds of things she is probably just doing what any 3.5 year old gets up to when looking for a bit of mischief.
I would talk to the manager and discuss the problem - asking what exactly has happened and how they would normally discpline the children.
You imply they have done this before so I wouldn't let it lie - I would make an appointment with the manager asap - before the situation escalates and gets any worse.
Does your daughter act up in any way at home? If so, I suppose it's up to yourself and your wife to decide how you would deal with that but if it's purely a creche problem then you should probably discuss it with the creche manager and decide then if you want to keep her there.
Good luck.

dizzymom

First time I have ever heard of that.
I would take the issue up with the Manager of the Montessori like the other person said.
Are all the rest of the class of 3 to 4 year olds angels - I dont think so.
I have a 3 yrs 9mnth old boy and I have had several issues in the past, with his kicking and biting. The play school at the time made me aware of it, but never once suggested I take him home. I did take all his toys out of his bedroom to teach him that biting/kicking/temper tantrums is wrong, and it worked I have to say. He is in a preschool and the moment and has the odd incident of misbehviour but we do a lot of 'time out' with him at home if he does naughty stuff.

Maybe your 3.5yr old is craving attention and feels that this is the only way to get attention? only a suggestion

upinthesky

i worked in a pre school for a year and we never rang parents to come and collect there child unless he she was sick
if we had an issue with the child we would talk to the parents when they collected them
now it depends how bad the child is behaving but i don't think they should ring until they take out the right measures first ie talking to you when you collect the child if this isn't working then i can see why they ring you
have they said this to you about her behavior when you collect her?
we had a child now she was lovely but she just wouldn't settle ie running round the place at story time everyday and interrupting the other children the manger was seriously considering giving her place to someone else this didn't happen as the parents were very cooperative and we worked together to sort something out

petergdub

She can be a bit naughty at home at times but to be honest she is quite a good child.
She helps clean up etc.

I did speak to creche manager before.
I agreed it was a joint problem and discipline was important for the future sake of school etc.
There are only 2 of them so maybe they don't have the time to spend on one kid.

They've said that's shes fine when they're teaching her one-on-one but the problem is when they then go to talk to another child.
Also sometimes when they threaten the naughty step step apparently she says "i dont care".
They also said she is very clever - ie she talks like an adult.

It's possibly my fault as I spend every moment I'm not in work with the 2 kids.
Playing with them talking to them etc.
Maybe she's bored in there.


This morning daughter said to my wife "I don't like them they're not my friends".

Mr. Presentable

OP, if your child is disruptive to the detriment of the rest of the children they have little alternative but to send her home. I don't think you are suggesting the creche is picking on your little one.

That she was well behaved at the prior creche suggests she is either missing that, or unsettled otherwise where she is.

Perhaps a different creche would be a good solution, but I suspect your child will have similar problems there also. Kids don't like change and respond to it in different ways. Your's acts up.

upinthesky

how do you discipline her at home? do you use a naughty chair step? or have you a different way?
if so let them no tell your daughter if she is misbehaving that she will lose out on a treat or something
now saying i don't care if you put me on the naughty step clearly states that she is misbehaving would she say this to you if so how would you deal with it

astra2000

I think you should speak with them an and come to an agreement on the type of punishment that your child should get if she misbehaves.
Sending her home is obviously not workin and it is not fair that the other kids see her been sent home it is just reenforcing to them that she is a bold girl that would make been friends hard imho. I think if she is really naughty ie hits another child, she should not be allowed attend the NEXT day or you and your wife could stop her doing an activity she likes.
Is it a case that they can send her home and still get paid if she is availing of the free preschool year or do you pay for the montessori yourselves? I would be reluctant to pay for a service I wasnt getting, especially as the behaviour you have described is pretty typical of 3yr olds.
It sounds as if your little girl is used to a lot of attention (lucky girl) but she needs to learn, especially before she starts school, that she has to wait her turn and cant always be the one to be heard first to choose a toy/game. Maybe you or your wife could take her to a parent and toddler group and see first hand how she interacts with other children. Best of luck

petergdub

Yes we do have the naughty step at home.
We also withdraw these privileges from her - milk in evening, dvd etc
I thought these were working in combination with the montessori but it looks like we are back to square one.

Another thing they were annoyed with her was she keeps trying to do the things they haven't gotten to yet.
Also they said "its like she deliberately defies them" - i.e. she does something naughty just to see their reaction.

At the previous creche she hadn't really started montessori it was more childcare.
I think maybe she just cant handle the more structured learning / discipline that comes with montessori.

At home she will happily spend an hour or more on starfall.com herself (she uses the mouse pad to get around).

upinthesky

maybe she likes being at home and wants to be at home with mom if this is the case explain to the teachers that sending her home is only making her worse
maybe she is bored would you try picking her up early everyday say 11.30 for a week or two see how that goes id say that would work and you would see an improvement

Elle Collins

Well if you've two children at the same creche and one's being continually sent home while the other isn't it's safe to assume that one is acting like a brat and the other isn't. Sound's like some discipline's in order; those are the bald-faced facts.

I think that rather than looking to find fault with the creche (i.e. transfering responsibility) you need to put the responsibility back where it belongs - on yourself and your wife. Have you made it very clear to your daughter that shouting, kicking gates, disobaying her elders and being generally disruptive is not ok behaviour from her and that you won't be tolerating any more of it?

petergdub

I guess more discipline is in order, particularly from me.

I would have expected that she would have enjoyed the montessori though.
I mean we're paying our own money for the service.
There's not much point doing that if it's an unpleasant experience for her, us and them.

emo72

hi peter, i would go down the more discipline route too. you need to sort it before she goes to primary school. i would imagine that phoning the parents is the last resort for the teachers, they dont want to send her home either.

on a side note, i thought the montessori encouraged kids to take anything off the shelf and learn from it as they wanted to. there is no set way or timetable. the kids curiosity is attracted to something and the teacher encouages and helps them. its not primary school after all.

Elle Collins

petergdub wrote: »

I guess more discipline is in order, particularly from me.

I would have expected that she would have enjoyed the montessori though.
I mean we're paying our own money for the service.
There's not much point doing that if it's an unpleasant experience for her, us and them.

I understand your reasoning there but this isn't about finances OP. It's about discipline and if you don't get that part right you can expect more of the same from your daughter regardless where she goes to creche/school or what it is or isn't costing you. In fact you can expect to end up with a child who thinks she can do as she pleases with no thought to how it affects anyone else, and that type of child is a nightmare to raise and a nightmare to be around, believe me, I've seen it up close and personal in my own family.

You didn't answer the question: Have you made it abundantly clear to your daughter that shouting, kicking gates, disobaying her elders and being generally disruptive is not ok behaviour from her and that you won't be tolerating any more of it? If you haven't and are not prepared to do this you are soft-soaping your daughter and storing up major problems for yourself, for your daughter, and for everyone else who is misfortunate enough to come into professional and social contact with her. To be honest, I would not want kids of mine in a creche where they had to witness the type of behaviour you are describing.

The thing to remember is if you don't make very clear what is acceptable behaviour from her the biggest loser will be your daughter for the simple fact that nobody will like her, and from her own words: "They're not my friends" it sounds like this process is already well underway. What I'm saying in a nutshell is that you have to put manners on your daugher for her own good.

smelltheglove

I think sending her home is a bit over the top, I have a 4 yr old who from time to time says she doesnt care going into the corner and will stand there singing and talking to herself, it is irritating that it seems not to faze her but left there long enough she does apologise. Do the teachers expect too quick a result from discipline? I should say, my child loves her playschool and never misbehaves, even today the teacher mentioned it to me, as wild a child as she is she enjoys it so much they never have issues with her.

Honestly I wouldnt be happy with the montessori complainging of picking things up before the teacher has gotten to them is most likely purely child curiosity. Possibly she is a very smart child and the teachers are moving along too slowly for her. You say she plays on a website which kinda says she prob is quite smart, again reminds me of my little on who navigates her way around my iphone and the youtube app to see her favourite songs. Its amazing what some kids can do and the teachers should be nurturing her inquisitivness.

Maybe this montessori just isnt a good enough fit. A larger group with a better dynamic may suit your child better.

Elle Collins

Totally disagree with all of the above. It is not regular protocol for staff to send a child home at the slightest sign of misbehaving. If that were true we'd have empty creches up and down the country every day of the week.

Children are not sent home routinely unless there is serious misbehaviour routinely, and turning a blind eye to that is the biggest disservice you can do the child.

astra2000

Elle Collins wrote: »

Totally disagree with all of the above. It is not regular protocol for staff to send a child home at the slightest sign of misbehaving. If that were true we'd have empty creches up and down the country every day of the week.

Children are not sent home routinely unless there is serious misbehaviour routinely, and turning a blind eye to that is the biggest disservice you can do the child.

Sorry but I would disagree with you re the staff protocol. I would never use a blanket opinion, that because they are the creche/teacher/doctor/whatever, they must be right, unfortunatly while the majority of professions get things right there is always room for error. It appears that the little girl has been in this particular montessori for less than 4mths and never gave bother in previous full time crech, so there is room for doubt. I agree strongly with you elle that children need disipline and the op needs to consider the fact that she may be getting spoilt.

OP be honest and if she is been bold and becoming out of control you need to address it for her sake even more than yours. If you and your wife are unable to be objective ask family members who see the child regularly to be honest and tell you their opinion, also as I have already suggested go along with her to a parent toddler group every week and watch her interaction. If the problem is the childs behaviour it is a lot easier to sort it the younger she is.
Speak with the montessori find out how frequently they have used sending home kids as a way of punishment, if you decide to keep her there ye need to reach an appropriate agreement on how she is dealt with.

petergdub

All well-considered feedback posters.
Part of me agrees with both opinions.
Discipline is an important life lesson to learn.
But on the other hand there is no point forcing the issue if there is an underlying reason in this case that she's unhappy there.

I wanted feedback before going back to the creche to talk to them.
I will also talk to the daughter and ask her honest opinion to see if it's just rascalism.
She always says she wants to go to big school, but if she can't hack montessori...

Elle Collins

astra2000 wrote: »

Sorry but I would disagree with you re the staff protocol. I would never use a blanket opinion, that because they are the creche/teacher/doctor/whatever, they must be right, unfortunatly while the majority of professions get things right there is always room for error.

There is, but I think it'd be strange if they were making an error with one child and not with her sister. Anyway, the OP's daughter has already become bold and out of control by his own description of her behaviour. Her parents may just have this decision taken out of thier hands; at this rate they'll be lucky if she isn't thrown out of the creche altogether.

astra2000 wrote: »

If you and your wife are unable to be objective ask family members who see the child regularly to be honest and tell you their opinion, also as I have already suggested go along with her to a parent toddler group every week and watch her interaction.

Two very good ideas here. I would advise you to take these suggestions on board OP, especially the first one. Sometimes a bit of honesty from people who actually know the child can be particularly illuminating.

cynder

I have been called to collect my fella from preschool a few times mainly because he gets too upset. He cant talk very well and has issues ( possible adhd) and has a special needs assistant. #

When he is disciplined at pre school he reacts quite well but can become over emotional and unable to settle. At home he just ignores us or will then become over emotional.

Your lady seems to be testing the limits and probably is quite happy to go home, she knows that if she does xyz she will go home and she is playing on it. She is in control, the montessori need to get their control back and you as parents have to back them up, if that means going to the preschool and having a few harsh words with your child and then sending her back in. (might work might not) But dont bring her back home or pamper her, she needs to know there is a consequence for her bad behavior.

I maybe wrong its just an idea, but each time you give into your childs whims she wins.

Ive had to sit through 1 hours worth of tantrums (on a few occasions) from my 3 year old during speech therapy to show him that his tantrums wont let him get his own way. A session is 30 mins but they wont let him leave until he behaves and that can take an hour or more. I also have to back that up at home.

Lady Chatterton

I totally agree with the last contributor. Your child is being rewarded for her "challenging behaviour". She knows that all she has to do to be sent home is to act up. She knows your wife/partner is at home so I reckon she wants to be with her. Ask the Pre-school leader to observe your child and report back to you on what she thinks is happening to cause the "challenging behaviour". You need to establish how she is getting on well with other children? Has she friends? Is she being excluded? Young children can have their own click too. Is she able to concentrate and complete tasks? It is possible that she may be getting frustrated if she is unable to do something. Sometimes children act up to avoid having to do some task etc. Even young children dislike failure. Good luck!

lynski

Is it possible that your dd is just not ready for montessori? she is not in school for another yr, why not switch her to a pre-montessori class, with less structure, until her ECCE yr. you said she was fine in creche previously.
So children are just not able for the structure of montessori, dont worry about primary school yet, it is only in the last yr or so that all children going into primary schools have experienced of pre-school, the teachers have had to deal with plenty of children who spent their first 5 yrs at home with mammy.
I would not be impressed if a pre-school sent home a child, not a good practice or example. She is getting marked out not saying that is deliberate, but it could happen easily - i know of a child with discipline probs in junior infants and that is how another child described him to me (the one who gets sent home).
The staff should be able to deal with it, or find a way to make it work. perhaps next time if they call you go in, discipline your child but leave her there, making it clear that she is staying for the duration.

Kildrought

I'm wondering if there's something a bit bigger that we are all missing?

OP says Mom is currently stay-at-home, so I'm taking it that isn't the norm?

Is Mom at home due to new baby? or because unwell?

Either of those two things would cause a 3-4 yr old to act up.

hannahb

Hi you sound like you were discribing my little girl to a t when she was that age she is now 12 years old oh god this take me back ,in my opinion i think you need to get your daughter accessed my daughter turned out to gifted she is in the 99 percentile in the country for English and maths just a taught .she seems to be very board and a board child is a bold child .please do an try to help her maybe i am wrong but she sounds like and is going through what my daughter went through she was very frustrated and just wanted to learn and was very board hope this might help pm me if you want any information regards

barbiegirl

Just a question here, but could your daughter just be bored and too advanced for montessori. I remember very clearly the teachers and minders in baby infants, I had just turned 4, being very annoyed with me because I could read, and would in fifteen minutes read 5-6 books from the little library. They thought I was precosious (spelling bad) and too well up for me own good :-)
Also if she talks like an adult and is intelligent they could be finding her questions and needs difficult.
Regardless she should not be sent home, she will need to learn better behaviour, but that is both you and them working together. Not them simply passing the issue squarely back to you.

kezimus

I had the same thing as hannah and barbie girl when I was in Junior and Senior Infants, at home, prior to school I had undivided attention and my Mum (who was stay at home at the time) was a great advocate of education for education's sake. I was reading and had adequate numerical skills going into school, and my Mum was called in every day after school to receive a tongue-lashing from the teacher. Apparently I was disrupting the class by reading ahead and by helping the girls sitting around me when they were struggling with reading. As I got older a substitute teacher noticed that I wasn't maliciously disturbing the class, I was just bored, and recommended CTYI, which I attended every weekend. As soon as it was feasible, my parents moved me to a private primary school (which is now sadly closed down) and it definitely had a positive effect. Also, as Lynski said, she may feel excluded from the group of children because the staff have labelled her as a troublemaker, children at that age usually don't want to stand out too much!! Best of luck either way!

petergdub

There's no other child (other than 2 yr old) my wife is at home alone.

Tried more discipline (taking away milk, toys etc) with mixed results.
Yesterday she was relatively good apart from 1 incident.
She announced to the other kids "I dont like any of you".
Apparently a couple of them started crying.

Anyway this morning she was happily working away on that website on the laptop as I was leaving and I tried to emphasize that she be good today at the creche.
She turns around and says "I DONT LIKE THE CRECHE" and got very upset refusing to say goodbye.
Also today I guess the montessori's policy them a bit in the ass.
Apparently she was good for a while and they praised her alot.
She started playing up and then suggested they ring her mother so that she would come and be collected.

cynder

Try taking the Internet off her instead of milk and toys, she seems to love that website.

What child doesn't like getting their own way? I don't like the creche because they wont let me do what i want!!
I know if i do xyz mommy's going to come and get me.


Did mommy collect her or was she left there?
Can the Montessori pin-point triggers? (the things that set her off)


I would suggest you or your wife have a little chat with the Public Health Nurse. She may recommend a parenting course or want the child assessed to see if she has any issues they could be anything from behavioural difficulties to being gifted. She might say there is no need to worry its just a phase she is going through, testing the limits. Your best bet is to have a chat with her.

Best of luck.

Bill2673

Elle Collins wrote: »

Totally disagree with all of the above. It is not regular protocol for staff to send a child home at the slightest sign of misbehaving. If that were true we'd have empty creches up and down the country every day of the week.

Children are not sent home routinely unless there is serious misbehaviour routinely, and turning a blind eye to that is the biggest disservice you can do the child.

You are right that its not protocol to send a child home at the slightest sign of misbehaving. That doesn't mean its not done when its unwarranted.

Different montessoris will have a different approach.

In relation to the final comment, the OP is clearly not turning a blind eye to it so I don't see any need to make that comment.

What was mentioned by the OP - Shouting, kicking a gate, disobeying - don't sound to me like red alert signals.....they don't particularly warrant sending a child home in my view. The only reason I think it would be reasonable to send a child home is if he/she is hitting another kid to be honest.

Two things mentioned
_ that there are only two staff members.....could be a montessori issue and not a kid issue......they should, to an extent, be able to discipline a child also. How many kids are there?
_ that your wife is at home......tell the montessori that your wife is in Tenerife for a week with her sister/mum whoever, and see how often they phone you at work to collect her....it might just be a very easy option.

As mentioned earlier, regularly sending her home reinforces the other kids perception of her as a 'bold girl'.....thas not good.

metrovelvet

petergdub wrote: »

There's no other child (other than 2 yr old) my wife is at home alone.

Tried more discipline (taking away milk, toys etc) with mixed results.
Yesterday she was relatively good apart from 1 incident.
She announced to the other kids "I dont like any of you".
Apparently a couple of them started crying.

Anyway this morning she was happily working away on that website on the laptop as I was leaving and I tried to emphasize that she be good today at the creche.
She turns around and says "I DONT LIKE THE CRECHE" and got very upset refusing to say goodbye.
Also today I guess the montessori's policy them a bit in the ass.
Apparently she was good for a while and they praised her alot.
She started playing up and then suggested they ring her mother so that she would come and be collected.

Maybe she just doesnt like the creche she is in.

LegacyUser

People won't agree here but I think you should move her to another creche/playschool.

I was a "bold" child.

I was "too young" going to Playschool, I was smart for my age, a bit hyper at times, liked blue instead of pink,
One of the other little girls GLARED at me on the first day "for no reason" so then I "didn't like any of them" either.

This was despite the fact that the lady who ran the playschool was a family friend and neighbour and if I was down at her house outside playschool hours I was a complete angel!!!

My mother refused to take me out of there despite me screaming every morning I didn't want to go in.
Could I remember what terrible injustice was inflicted on me the day before? NO!
All I knew was Playschool = BAD!
This pattern continued into primary school as I was already labelled as a "troublesome" child, mostly in my own head. (I came out of it in the end )

I remember wanting to "be good" but then the slightest thing would upset me because I already knew I was "bold".
(Discipline wasn't a problem I was always being sent to my room, given out to, smacked, toys taken away and also praised and rewarded when I was good!!!)

She now says she wished she'd just stopped sending me in. That it was stupid to fight with me over it and it wouldn't have been the end of the world.

She says it's one of her regrets as a mother.
When my much younger sister was miserable at her childminders, she moved her to another one. (she wasn't bold like me, the lady was just older and had too many kids to mind)
She is fine, she didn't see it as "getting her own way" it was more "you're older now so you're going somewhere else".

I think it might be good to get your child into a different creche, if she kicks off there, you have a bigger problem.
You will still need to discipline her as people have suggested but it might be easier for her if she has a clean slate.
At 3 it's not too late to have a fresh start for her where she is not "the bold one no one likes".


Does she have friends outside of that place,
Does she play with neighbour children or cousins regularly?
How does she interact with her sister?

I would seriously limit the amount of time she spends on the internet also, it could be making her impatient.
Good luck