Montessori keeps sending 3yr old home for misbehaving

cynder

metrovelvet wrote: »

Maybe she just doesnt like the creche she is in.

What happens in the future if she doesn't like the teacher she has or the school that she is in or the girl who sits next to her?

Will she act up?
Will she expect to be moved to a different school, class or seat?



My Morning:

My guy kicked and screamed from the moment he woke up today he did not want to go to preschool, i forced him to get dressed (pinned him down while i dressed him) i carried him into the pre school kicking and screaming and had to hold him for 20 min's while in the pre school all the time he was kicking and screaming and he also lost his shoe at one point, i was saying shush and stroking him and hugging him really tight until he went into a whimper (ive been told to do this by the early intervention educator). I then started interacting with another girl in his class I talked to her and took turns with the shape sorter, he then had a turn of the shape sorter. He then pointed to a different table, i found his shoe and i carried him over to the other table as he was still glued to me. I sat down and played with him for 5 mins and during this time the pre school leader came over and started playing with him, he was distracted so i then legged it. During this time all the other kids were staring at him, except the little girl who came over. He is probably know as the bold child by the other kids.

I could of just gave in this morning and said his not going to pre school today ( i would of avoided a lot of temper tantrums if i had of done) but what would happen when he starts school in September and has to go every day? I would be setting a bad record if i gave into his every whim. He would expect me to do the same in big school, thinking i would let him have a day off if he didn't feel like going.

How guilty do i feel? VERY VERY GUILTY. He only gets the preschool assistant for 2 days a week (and today is her day off) and he puts extra pressure on the teachers but they handle it and never complain. They think he is an adorable child and know he has issues and they deal with it. He doesn't go in kicking and screaming every day just here and there.


MY guy hates speech therapy he still has to go and he has to behave while he is in there. Some days we get great work done other days we don't. He threw an almighty temper tantrum the one day and cracked a tooth off a chair that he smashed into. Every week at the early intervention playgroup he will kick up stink (testing the limits) but he aways comes round and knows bad behaviour will get him nowhere.

metrovelvet

It depends on the child and depends on the school.

I was playing hookie very young because I already knew how to read, write and do arithmetics up to long division and was bored out of my mind. Yes my mother should have changed school.

upinthesky

ratio is 1:10 children for pre school and 1:8 for all day care this can be two many for the staff to handle

cynder

lisar816 wrote: »

ratio is 1:10 children for pre school and 1:8 for all day care this can be two many for the staff to handle

You can have kids starting school at 4 with the ratio of up to 1:35 in the case of my son in J.Infants 1:28

When my daughter started school it was a ratio of 1:30 and she was the youngest in the class at age 3, she turned 4, 2 weeks later.

If 2 are finding it hard to handle goodness knows how 1 teacher is going to handle her, unless she does what my brothers teacher did and have her sitting on her lap all day

Kildrought

OP - is she in the creche for the full day? or just till lunch time (as at playschool?) Is the 2year old there for the full day?

carwash_2006

I have to say one thing that stood out for me is the fact that they are upset that she is trying to learn ahead of what they are doing :eek: They should be happy to encourage her if she is bored with what they are doing. I would talk to them about this and if they are not happy with encouraging her to forge ahead of what they normally do (assuming that she is not just doing it to be bold and really is not challenged by what she is being offered) I would look at taking her out of the place either for a part of the day or moving her somewhere else that they will be happy to challenge her.

upinthesky

op never said they didn't allow her to do other things he said that she always wants to!

now i can understand during free play maybe they can do what ever they want but when it comes to story time or a different activity that the whole class is doing she should be able to sit down with them.

Not getting up and saying i want to do such and such now i think the staff wont say no but they will encourage her to sit down and maybe do it the next day during free play after all montessori is about getting the child ready for school

sounds like she is doing this on a daily basses which would get annoying if you ask me

Elle Collins

Bill2673 wrote: »

In relation to the final comment, the OP is clearly not turning a blind eye to it so I don't see any need to make that comment.

We'll have to agree to disagree there Bill2673. The OP outlined the situation and then asked for opinions on whether or not he should look around for an alternative creche, rather than solicit any advice on tackling the behaviour that is actually causing the problem.

Bill2673 wrote: »

What was mentioned by the OP - Shouting, kicking a gate, disobeying - don't sound to me like red alert signals.....they don't particularly warrant sending a child home in my view. The only reason I think it would be reasonable to send a child home is if he/she is hitting another kid to be honest.

I disagree with this also. No responsible creche would ignore that level of agression until it had escalated into violence against other children.

Bill2673

Elle Collins wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree there Bill2673. The OP outlined the situation and then asked for opinions on whether or not he should look around for an alternative creche, rather than solicit any advice on tackling the behaviour that is actually causing the problem.



I disagree with this also. No responsible creche would ignore that level of agression until it had escalated into violence against other children.

(a) yes in the first post he asked should he look for another creche and whether the creche's policy was normal.

Thats doesn't mean that he is ignoring discipline, or that he isn't considering it as a factor; he has made quite clear in later posts that he is making an effort to discpline.

(b) the very first response was from someone with work experience in a montessori who said they would never have sent a child home.

My point ultimately is concerning your approach. I know a lot of parents, and pretty much all of them try very hard to the right thing for their kids. They put in a big effort and a lot of thought. And I'd also say that parents can be sensitive to comments how about well or not well they parent.

and that basis, I would not make a comment like your one that an approach they are taking could be the 'greatest disservice you can do for your kids'. There was a lot of judgement and opinion in that comment, yet you are presenting it as an absolute.

Similarly, your second comment above on 'no responsible creche'....I personally wouldn't profess to be the arbiter on what is or isnt a responsible creche, except in extreme situations. Again, personally, I don't see shouting or kicking a gate as being an extreme situation. As mentioned above, the very first post is from a former creche employee who has the exact opposite view to you. Do we take your opinion, do we take their opinion .....at the end of the day, they are both just opinions and shouldnt be presented as definitive.

Everyone's child is different. Everyone's situation is different. What worked for one person in the past mightn't work for another person in the future. The OP's situation is complicated; it might be about the creche, it might be about the child, it might be about both.

Elle Collins

Bill2673 wrote: »

I know a lot of parents...

I am a parent, and I would not expect a creche to tolerate that sort of behaviour from my child. Nor would I have my child attending a creche where that sort of behaviour was tolerated from other children.

The OP has said he will enquire into the matter to uncover whether or not it is 'rascalism'. :rolleyes: If we're going to put an 'ism' on the end of that behaviour let's call a spade a spade and call it bratism. If that's fine for you that's fine for you; it wouldn't be fine for me and it's clearly not fine for the creche in question.

That's all I have to say about the matter.

Bill2673

Grand, tks.

I'm going to agree and disagree with a few of the posters here, and I apologise in advance if I jump back and forth.

Firstly, comparing a creche to a Montessori isn't like for like, you pay a creche to "mind" your children, you pay a Montessori to "teach" your children. This means that while the creche may have had issues with your child, they may have dealt with them themselves as this is what you are paying them for. The Montessori on the other hand may not feel it is their responsibility to babysit and discipline your daughter. I’m not saying this is correct by the way, just giving an opinion on what the difference may be.

While is it is not normal for a Montessori to send a child home for misbehaving, I would have to wonder if it is a case of it being too extreme for them to handle. It would appear that your daughter has caused so much disruption that they feel that the only way to tackle this is by removing her from the situation. However, this creates two problems, the first being that they may now have her “red carded” and send her home and the drop of a hat because it is an option, and the second being your daughter’s control over this situation, if she wants to go home all she has to do is be bold. I agree with Elle that it is unfair on other children to be disrupted in this way, whether by the teachers, or by your daughter.

The bottom line is that the situation cannot continue, your daughter needs to really understand the consequences of her actions long term, punishments need to be carried through, praise needs to be given where it is due, methods that are not working need to be revised. In addition, the Montessori need to either agree to work with you to get through this, or tell you here and now that they are not willing to give any more time to your daughter and allow her to start over in another Montessori (this, for me, would be the last resort).

You need to explain to your daughter that the only person who this will hurt in the long run is her, explain to her that it is much easier to be good and noone will ever get upset or angry with a good girl, that nobody has time for a bold girl, that people get a lot more when they ask nicely, when they are good. This is ultimately what needs to be drilled into her, it’s the only way, I believe, to make her see sense. Give her nothing if she demands it, take away toys little by little and only return them when she has earned it.

One thing that struck me is that you deny her milk in the evening as punishment. Is this a cup of milk or a bottle of milk? If it’s a cup of milk then I see no reason to take this away from her, as it should not be seen as a treat. However, if it’s a bottle, then she should not be having bottles at all at her age, and by denying her them when she is bold you are really going to do her damage when you finally make her give them up for good as she will not for the life of her understand what she did wrong to have her bottles taken away.

Sorry for the long post, and good luck OP.

cynder

Well said whoopsadaisydoodles,

LegacyUser

My eldest child had similar issues at creche and at school. I recall his Junior Infant teacher telling us that he couldn't be bored. Of course Juniors isnt a great place if you're an outlier.

As it turned out he was classed as gifted, diagnosed as suffering from dyspraxia and got support from an SNA. After a few years he started mixing better and being less impulsive. He attended CTYI sessions from an early age and they gave him great help. The school (once it was recognised) gave him help too and gladly let him study beyond the class level.

implausible

smelltheglove wrote: »

Maybe this montessori just isnt a good enough fit. A larger group with a better dynamic may suit your child better.

I am very surprised by two things - that a montessori would ever send a young child home and that they would send her home for anything less than physical violence. When you enrolled her, was it specified in the forms or in any literature that this was a form of discipline?

It sounds like your child is simply bored and clever enough to have figured out a way to get out of this situation. You need to find a compromise here, between teaching her that she can't get her way through misbehaving and finding a way to challenge her more, be that through reward and punishment, half-days or part-time at the creche or moving her altogether.

bmarley

OP ask for a copy of facilities policies and procedures and look in particular at behavioural management/ways of dealing with a disruptive child. Ensure they keep a record of your child's behaviour and keep you informed on a daily/weekly basis. Most places do not recommend using naughty chairs or time outs. The punishment of refusing milk for misbehaviour may not be a good choice either. Your child may find the montessori environment restrictive and may benefit more from community group pre-school which can offer more variety in their learning programme. This is not a good start to your young child's education or confidence (being sent home) and will not benefit her in any way.

Big Bag of Chips

How does your wife deal with her when she goes home?

petergdub

Ok, after several days of relative paradise I believe we've cracked it.

In a nutshell the 3.5 yr old was being essentially rewarded for her bad behaviour by getting to spend exclusive (the key word here) time with her mother when she was sent home.
(Or in fact me who was also called a couple of times if wife was unavailable).

Looking at it from the 3.5 yr olds point now it appears obvious.
She spends virtually her entire day with the 2 yr old sister.
While they get on quite well, there is a huge difference developmentally between a 2 and 3.5 yr old.
e.g. the 2 yr old who idolises her sister is at the stage where she repeats almost everything the 3.5yr old says. Also she was beginning to repeat her bad behaviour.

It's difficult to give every detail but when we initially started at the montessori the 3.5 yr old had started there exclusively
ie the 2 yr old didn't get to start until 1 month later.
That kind of coincided with the bad behaviour the 3.5 yr old had been fine the first month.
Another detail that seems important now after the fact is that in the previous creche they had shared a spot - in other words one was in some days the other in other days.


What we've been doing is trying to individualise (where possible).
i.e even if its running a quick errand taking one and not the other.
The 3.5 yr old now gets to stay up a bit longer (even if only 5 minutes).
Just emphasizing that kind of thing.
The creche for their part I think realised when the 3.5 yr old was asking to be sent home (and as they said appeared to be observing their reaction to her bad behaviour - doing it for effect) that this was not working as intended.
They had in fact suggested giving the 3.5yr old more responsibility / maybe do a weekly visit to a library with just her and a parent.

Thank you for all your considered replies.

Big Bag of Chips

Makes perfect sense!

We had 3 under 2.5, so no real personal time for any of them. One day I was in town with eldest (now 5), for some reason it was just the two of us. He's not the most affectionate or expressive child in the world (!) But as we were walking along he caught my hand and said "I love being in town with just the two of us".

Thinking of it now, it's been a while since any of them had their own time! Might be time to re-introduce it!

Hope it works out for you OP... there's nearly always "a reason".