The Bus to keep or not to keep?

MyPerfectCousin

People who resent the cost will be happy, so that's good.

Prepare for more vehicles on the road in Greystones during rush hour.

BeidhArLaLinn

it would be frustrating to see it go alright....

I wonder, how long has the service been in place? would the majority of home owners in Charlesland been aware of the extra bus service fee when purchasing their property? asuming it would ad extra value to it?

dr ro

it's a shame to lose it. It cuts out the need for a car. Handy too on mornings like this to get dropped to the door rather than getting soaked walking from the park and ride.

cavemeister

This means of course that the park and ride in Greystones will be chocka-Block every morning now... I will give you 5-1 that the council introduce parking fees in April

Personally its a disgrace that this wan't voted on at the residents AGM!

Again, I have to say that homeowners were aware of the shuttle fees before they bought in Charlesland!

Good luck renting houses to people without cars in future!

hamstervision

I was under the impression that since the bus was part of the planning permission it wasn't possible to get rid of it without a vast majority of residents (and not just attendees at a meeting) voting to get rid of it. I could be wrong though. I'll be very interested to read the letter.

matt-dublin

Well if you look at it this way,

Of the 200 or so residents that use it and vote for it, there's another 1300 votes there for people who don't use it and see it as an extra expense on their fees for something they don't use/need.

and when you put the figures in front of the people who own the properties and pay the management fees there's a potential saving of anywhere between 40 and 200 euros on fees depending what percentage fees you pay.

I was on it today, i also noticed its schools mid term and the bus was empty.

Also if you look a the amount of people who won't and can't pay their management fees it means that services do have to be cut back.

I know of one person in one of the estates that is in excess of 20k in debt due to management fees. There's not much that can be done about it because he's paying something towards them.

As we are all aware, in times of austerity cutbacks are required. The bus, landscaping and electricity are possibly the most expensive things in the estate.

mikedragon32

Don't forget Matt, chances are that the 200 people who use it aren't necessarily from 200 properties (or even from the development!).

I don't buy this nonsense that it's a selling point. As many potential buyers may be put of by having to pay for a bus they might not use. It's a moot point now anyway.

matt-dublin

I agree, i think it was an expensive nicety to the estate, i use it myself but can't really justify it. It was a real sign of the times when the wicklow co co would stipluate something like this in the planning conditions but realistically something that couldn't be kept forever.

It was always going to go at some point.

especially coming into the warmer months i might even get up off my lazy a$$ and start walking to the dart (or even cycling!)

judy1

The Driver told me that he knew nothing about the bus service finishing up. He has been told nothing from his boss or our management committee.
He told me a few weeks ago that some of the passengers approched him and told/ask him about the rumour.
I ask sean about it again last friday and he still knows nothing about it.

I think myself that it would be mad to get rid of the service, as it has been the best its ever been. The Driver Sean and Tony Doyle Coaches has done a great job since it took over the run in feb 2010. Its now a very reliable service. You wont get this with Dublin Bus or even the Dart.
Think about it... where else are you going to get a bus to run at a cost of less than €1 a day per housr hold. Some of these houses/appartment have 5 persons or more living in them. Whats that then 20 cent a person?

I know that not ever person uses the service but at the price what else do you's want? A Taxi to your door? (€8 to the Dart station in a Taxi). Get a taxi 6 times in the year and there's you coast of the Bus for a whole year.... :eek:

But if people dont want to keep the bus service, thats their choice. But at least they have a choice. If the car breaks down or they cant drive due to bad snow and ice on the roads. The bus will still go. And when we had that bad winter conditions last November where was Dublin Bus? Gone for 2 days and only every 2nd train ran. But the Bus that you's dont want to pay for was there every day. :rolleyes:

I know I will be voting to keep the bus. But if we do lose the shuttle bus, we all know who will be the first people to complain. The one's who didnt want to pay or use it in the first place. :mad:

But this is only a rumour at the moment, but like some people already said they have this from a good source. So are we going to lose our Bus?

A happy but not happy Charleslander J.

matt-dublin

judy1 wrote: »

So are we going to lose our Bus?

Yes. Notifications to be sent out over the coming week. Tony Doyle has also been notified. (from a very reputable source)

judy1

So when can we expect the service to finnish up?
It'll be missed by some of us at least. The thougts of getting back into the car again has me a little pee'd .

mikedragon32

judy1 wrote:

But if we do lose the shuttle bus, we all know who will be the first people to complain. The one's who didnt want to pay or use it in the first place.

Why on earth would people who don't use it complain that it's gone?

Cranipea

Ok, i rang Katie Wright at the management company & she confirmed a letter is going out to all residents by the end of the week advising re management fees & also re the bus. She wouldnt confirm the bus is going as she wants all residents to receive the letter together but doesnt sound good.

judy1

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Why on earth would people who don't use it complain that it's gone?

Because people who complain about something, complain about the same things when there gone.....:rolleyes:

like not wanting to pay for the bus service. When its gone the same people will complain about there been no bus service... But like its been said already a lot of people dont use the bus... or do they?

cavemeister

From my experience of using the bus service, I would hazzard a guess and say that aprox 150 people use it each day. so each way, that's 300 passengers. Each week is 1,500 and each month is 6,000.

Now if every passenger had to pay 50c per day to use the bus (seperate from the management fees - possibly a ticketing system) that works out at €1,500 to keep the account with the current company.

For a few hours a day, it would seem to be enough.

Thats my thoughts anyway

matt-dublin

That requires a licence to be issued by wicklow county council. who won't issue one because dublin bus and bus eirinn already operate a fare service.

that was looked at already

and by that math, thats 300 * 5 * 50(two weeks off around xmas) * €0.50 = 37,500. you're short another 35,700 to make up the 75k costs for the bus. and thats if they pay 50c per trip, not per day.

if it was per day, you can safely assume 200 out of those 300 people do a return journey. so lets say that its 200 * 5* 50 * .50 = 25000, now you're short by 50k

dubjackeen

I live in Seabourne View. We received a circular today saying that the shuttle bus will cease on 31st March!

Rasmus

Well it's a shame to see it go from my point of view as I get it every morning. Irish rail will lose my business! However I am very glad that we have it until 31st March, at least it's springtime!

Plastik

Got the leaflet aswell. To say I'm disgusted is an understatement. It will be very interesting to see how this pans out following the termination of the service with regard to the needs of people to use the park'n'ride 'at' the train station and the increased traffic in the mornings with parents dropping kids to school. I would have liked to hear what other solutions were proposed as opposed to simple termination, the lazy option. A smaller bus to reduce costs, an 'opt-in/-out' system etc.

So now the search begins to firstly, find an alternative and secondly, sell up and move on.

LMC

I dont use it often but think its a great service. It was great during the snow & this morning my car wouldnt start :eek: and without the bus id Ive miss the dart. Shame to see it go, I cant imagine my fees being reduced enough to make a that big a difference just because its being removed, considering im paying them already for this year, i'll be V interested to see if/when i get the refund!!!

Again i dont see how they can just stop it without asking the residents what they think, I thought the Mgtmt Co worked for us??

loyatemu

even though I don't live in Charlesland anymore, I used it for 3 years and I'm sorry to see it go.

It was a progressive idea, getting people out of their cars on onto public transport and greatly reducing traffic in the village - expect to see the so called "transport interchange" greatly congested around the rush hours as people are dropped off and picked up.

The P&R will also fill up, affecting people who come in from further away and don't have the option of getting a bus or cycling/walking - many of these people (and many from Charlesland) will abandon the Dart altogether and drive into town.

The enlightened approach would be to expand the shuttle into a paid-for service serving the whole SAR from Kilpedder via Eden Gate and Charlesland, but still matching the Dart schedule (like a better version of Finnegan's service in Bray), but no doubt Dublin Bus would object to this and Wicklow Co Co wouldn't sanction it.

Annasopra

loyatemu wrote: »

The enlightened approach would be to expand the shuttle into a paid-for service serving the whole SAR from Kilpedder via Eden Gate and Charlesland, but still matching the Dart schedule (like a better version of Finnegan's service in Bray), but no doubt Dublin Bus would object to this and Wicklow Co Co wouldn't sanction it.

They'd have to get a licence for that

MyPerfectCousin

mikedragon32 wrote: »

I don't buy this nonsense that it's a selling point.

You don't look at what your commute will be like and what the public transport options are when you are looking to move somewhere?

It's not nonsense. It may not make a sale, but it may sway someone or get them interested in the first place.

Like you said, I guess it's moot now.

mikedragon32

If public transport was that big a deal when I bought here I wouldn't have moved! There were no busses at all and the shuttle hadn't commenced either. The shuttle is not public transport.

I agree with Loya that it was a progressive plan, but it was only ever put in as a condition until there was a public transport option, which there is.

Langerland

Was completely taken aback by that bombshell yesterday. The public bus service is unreliable and untimely at best. I don't fancy standing outside at 6 or 7am on a wet morning waiting for a Dublin Bus. However, I was also very surprised when I saw the annual cost of a bus service. 80k a year for what is a part time service??? They mentioned some surveys on the notice. I hadn't seen or taken part in any of these, but maybe I was out of the country when they took place. It shouldn't have to take a survey to see that the majority of residents don't use the service. However, that argument could be taken further in relation to fees....people on ground floors shouldn't have to pay lift maintenance....people on ground floors shouldn't have to pay Window cleaning maintenance fees, people without kids shouldn't have to pay so much in cleaing and landscaping !! etc. etc. Nit picking I know, but at the end of the day, it was a service for residents and used by many.

matt-dublin

Langerland wrote: »

Was completely taken aback by that bombshell yesterday. The public bus service is unreliable and untimely at best. I don't fancy standing outside at 6 or 7am on a wet morning waiting for a Dublin Bus. However, I was also very surprised when I saw the annual cost of a bus service. 80k a year for what is a part time service??? They mentioned some surveys on the notice. I hadn't seen or taken part in any of these, but maybe I was out of the country when they took place. It shouldn't have to take a survey to see that the majority of residents don't use the service. However, that argument could be taken further in relation to fees....people on ground floors shouldn't have to pay lift maintenance....people on ground floors shouldn't have to pay Window cleaning maintenance fees, people without kids shouldn't have to pay so much in cleaing and landscaping !! etc. etc. Nit picking I know, but at the end of the day, it was a service for residents and used by many.

People on ground floors should pay more for landscaping for direct usage of the gardens.

Landscaping, probably now the highest cost of the estate.

That arguement doesn't stand

cavemeister

What will most likely happen is the bus will be removed, management fees will be adjusted to reflect savings, in 12 months time a letter will be sent to all households advising that due to increased costs management fees will need to be increased and Bobs your uncle, back to the way they are now.

Thats the Irish way don't you know

Langerland

matt-dublin wrote: »

People on ground floors should pay more for landscaping for direct usage of the gardens.

Landscaping, probably now the highest cost of the estate.

That arguement doesn't stand

I suppose I could agree with you. Not all people on ground or any floor use gardens....so maybe people who make direct usage of the gardens...i.e. walks, kids playing, etc. should have to pay this fee. And people who look at the gardens should pay some discounted rate.

Ridiculous argument I know. It's all part of the estate, the residential area and services provided for us. We may not all use them, but they are part of the agreement we all signed up to when we bought there. Similar to the bus in my opinion. For the record, I don' t use it. Used to a few years ago until I changed job and it was no longer convenient.

Plastik

It stands as much as the argument presented for getting rid of the bus, which is that it is a service not used by all, so lets bin it.

threetrouts

It all boils down to paying for .If people arent paying their fees then the management co had no choice
with a reduced cash flow what can they do.
Reduce other things- landscaping is far more important as it impacts on the overall look value of estates.Do we cut insurance and if someone has an accident we all pay thousands for it .Or do we not pay electricity bills and. Leave Charlesland in darkness
-I gather from the letter that this is the case.We cant afford to have what we cant pay for.Obviously things have to be prioritised
.