The Bus to keep or not to keep?

loyatemu

matt-dublin wrote: »

Anyone here work for Dublin bus?

forget about that - DB are cutting services all over the city at the moment, even their busiest routes are not strictly speaking "profitable".

dubsgirl

In my opinion if you don't like or have enough knowledge about decisions being made on your behalf by voluntary committee members then get involved.

Everyone is free to attend an AGM and volunteer yourself as a director/committee member.

Everyone is very quick to knock people on these committee's without giving up their own time and energy :rolleyes:

I for one think they do a really good job and please do not forget they do this completely voluntarily because they care about their local community and basically if they weren't there the management companies could do as they pleased.

Having recently been made redundant I for one really value the reduction in my management fees this year.

threetrouts

Dublin bus are now looking at running a city imp dart commuter service from Redford park/Rathdown to Delgany Wood to Eden Gate and Charlesland to station.It wont meet every train as the time factor in pickups and run is about 40 mins They believe they can meet 3 Dart departures each morning from first dart and can depart 3 times in evening .Considering a fare of 1.20.Decision Friday

matt-dublin

That's somewhat good news threetrouts, where did u see that?

Langerland

On a side issue, but something I noticed in the service charge breakdown in the letter, does anybody know why The Cresent makes such a small percentage contribution? Is there really that many fewer people living up there?

matt-dublin

Theres only 48 apartments, 48 out of 1500 odd....

Annasopra

This is not a general election issue - it's about the lack of consultation by the residents committees

mikedragon32

Johnnymcg wrote: »

This is not a general election issue - it's about the lack of consultation by the residents committees

Agreed. I have to concede that it's been very poorly handled by the overall committee, but as has been pointed out, these are people who volunteer their time and efforts for the good of everyone and anyone can be involved. Problem is though, that a lot of decisions are made at the AGMs but relatively few people attend.

In the Woods

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Problem is though, that a lot of decisions are made at the AGMs but relatively few people attend.

Went to the last AGM for the Ch Wood, found that there were relatively few people in attendance and even fewer decisions made We were promised by developer rep and Management company that AGM for 2010 would be in April. Should be interesting.

judy1

I dont belive that Dublin Bus will ever bring back a city imp like service. This is not on the cards for them. (Fact).
Dublin Bus are trying to cut their costs just like everyone else.
So unless poeple go stright to the committees and demand a quility bus service, its not going to happen. No matter what company wants to run the service.

Poeple power thats what is needed. As for now the bus service in charlesland is going to be gone. The sad thing is that our committees have let us down by going behind our backs and not asking for our comments on this. I know who will not be on the committee next time they look for surpport.

I dont think the issue is the bus any more, but how we were back stabbed by the people who are meant to be supporting us...:mad:

LMC

I just spoke to my mgmt co and a letter is in the post, I asked how this decision was made, she said when it was brought to their attention, they had a meeting with all the residents comm and it was voted by them to cancel the service. Luckily my res comm went against it saying they would need to check with residences on such an issue that big and I thank them for that but we they were outnumbered as we have a small % vote in the grand scene of things.

Now I agree that people to volunteer to go on these comm are doing a great job and fair play to them but isnt the idea that they are respresenting the residents??? What other decisions can be made at these meetings without the residents being asked their opinion?? :eek:

I asked whether Wyse etc can make other decisions about the spine rd ie landscapping what if that gets to expensive for them, she assured me that they couldnt as there is a lease involved in that but we shall see.

As for AGM, Ive been to all mine and in fairness there is only ever about 20 max at them. So people if you want your voice heard you need to start going to these meetings.

mikedragon32

In the Woods wrote: »

Went to the last AGM for the Ch Wood, found that there were relatively few people in attendance and even fewer decisions made We were promised by developer rep and Management company that AGM for 2010 would be in April. Should be interesting.

They're a bit behind alright. Looking forward to it, should be a lively one!

hamstervision

judy1 wrote: »

So unless poeple go stright to the committees and demand a quility bus service, its not going to happen. No matter what company wants to run the service.

It would also help if the committees/management companies replied to emails sent to the email addresses given on the useful contacts page. No response yet from either.

Langerland

Indeed, my official request for more information from the committee also seems to be falling on deaf ears. For now, I'll analyze the management budget closely and then discount my annual fee to exclude services which I feel I do not use or do not use sufficiently to warrant the extra cost incurred to me. Hard times, hard measures.

phnyo

Apparently it will lead to almost anywhere from 80 to 220 reduction in fees depending on what type of unit you occupy and less than 20% of residents use it (some survey or poll done) and the bulk of these are renting ..:):)happy days at least one bill will be less this year.[/QUOTE]



The bus Is a big incentive for prople renting and moving to charlesland. when the renters move and the houses are empty house, how much will house prices drop. Only €5,000??? doubt it.

That will take you 25 years at your €200 year saving to make back. Nice thinking.


p.s first time using boards, so cheap joke about not be able to use as it a comeback, is pointless

cavemeister

Is there anything the residents can do to get the bus re-instated or is it now a case that once it's gone, its gone ?

matt-dublin

LMC wrote: »

I just spoke to my mgmt co and a letter is in the post, I asked how this decision was made, she said when it was brought to their attention, they had a meeting with all the residents comm and it was voted by them to cancel the service. Luckily my res comm went against it saying they would need to check with residences on such an issue that big and I thank them for that but we they were outnumbered as we have a small % vote in the grand scene of things.

Now I agree that people to volunteer to go on these comm are doing a great job and fair play to them but isnt the idea that they are respresenting the residents??? What other decisions can be made at these meetings without the residents being asked their opinion?? :eek:

I asked whether Wyse etc can make other decisions about the spine rd ie landscapping what if that gets to expensive for them, she assured me that they couldnt as there is a lease involved in that but we shall see.

As for AGM, Ive been to all mine and in fairness there is only ever about 20 max at them. So people if you want your voice heard you need to start going to these meetings.

Wyse can't make any decisions about anything big directly without approval from the corrosponding committee.

However, they can change a service provider without notification if they find a better service or better rate etc and if its in the interests of the company.

I agree the letter sent out wasn't great and there was a lacking of apologies in there alright.

The overall committee is set up from represtitaves from each committee in the estate.

This is how the vote went (yes to keep, no to remove):

Charlesland Wood (19.86%) : NO
The Crescent (3.45%) : YES
Seaborne View (17.57%) : NO
Charlesland Retail (3.56%) : NO VOTE
Charlesland Grove (14.47%) : NO
Charlesland Park (23.19%) : NO
Charlesland Court (17.8%) : YES

In favour to keep the Bus : 21.25%
In favour of removing: 75.09%
No Vote : 3.56%

I think to argue this further everyone would need to attend AGMs, with less than 10-20% showing up for meetings you're leaving the responsibility in the hands of your committee to make votes in what they feel to be your best interest.

an remember you all nominate and vote for residents in your areas to become members of your committee/board, again another reason to go to AGMs.

I've seen it countless times in the crescent whereby people come on board bitching and moaning like idiots, get themselves elected to the committee and and realise how much time and effort goed into it and the resign within weeks.

In this scenario there's no win according to everyone.

People complain about management fees being too high, so the committee take action to reduce overall financial footprint.

less than 10% of the population of charlesland are now directly affected by the action and now have 30 odd days to find another form of transport.

I think its the right decision to make for the overall estate, i think however in hindsight that it wasn't necessarily handled correctly

matt-dublin

Langerland, not paying your fees could potentially result in legal action and a judgement being taken out against you.

you as a resident and owner of a freehold/leasehold property in charlesland singed and agreed a contract whereby you agreed to pay an annual service charge contritbuting towards the cost of running your estate and common areas.

if you feel your paying for something that you shouldn't be the correct measure would be to voice your opinion at your AGM.

audreyp

I admit to not attending the AGMs but couldn't the commitee have included potential topics in the letters they send residents around notifiying them that there would be a vote on a bus?

Not everyone can attend these meetings but if important issues such as changing people's commutes are discussed surely we should be notified of the outcome of these meetings before the bus is removed?

Is there any chance of another vote where we notify the residents that there will be a vote on this and then take a real count. Obviously then the people who don't care and don't come can't complain and people who would like to voice an opinion have an opportunity to do so?

matt-dublin

Again audrey, what you will find is an overwhelming turnout of people who do use the bus, the people who don't use it won't probably show as it doesn't directly affect them.

even with the bus running at full capacity at 56 users per commute and 10 commutes a day thats 560 people out of 1500 odd votes.

That doesn't take into account non charlesland commuters and multiple users of a single dwelling who would only have one vote.

Either which way if you got 100% of the electorate i would think its not a very stong case, especially if you look at 93% of one of the larger estates voted against the bus previously and that would carry 20% of the vote alone.

mikedragon32

In fairness Matt, that's 93% of people who voted (ie attended the meeting), not 93% of the households. Highlights why it's important to go to AGMs.

audreyp

Surely people who want their management fees lowered or care enough about them would attend. So people who care could vote and it would be fair.

I have no problem with it, if the majority of people voted against it in a fair vote but the fact I wasn't even given a chance to vote is upsetting me. Would it be much extra work to print the agenda of the meeting on the meeting notifications we receive through the mail box? So if it's an issue we truly care about we can go and voice our opinion.

If you don't notify people about a potential vote then democracy is really not at work.

matt-dublin

People have wanted there management fees lowered since the beginning o management companies... They still don't show up.

audreyp

But surely that's their problem if it doesn't happen??
Would anyone have a phone number for the committee? I'm not having much luck with my emails. If I was looking to challenge the decision is it up to the Committee or Wyse?

Again I stress I don't use the bus, just like having the option when I'm relying on a very old car.

Plastik

A meeting to vote on the issue of the bus would be a start. At the very least it gives people the option to attend to have their say. The most galling thing about the removal of this service is the manner that it was implemented. It has come across as completely underhand and autocratic.

Finnegan Bray

Quick update - As a councillor & dail candidate I have contacted the management company (Wyse) and they have confirmed that this is a decision for the resident's association. I have also investigated the planning permission and the finer details are archived in Wicklow County Council and are being sourced for me- will confirm the details when I get them

From our bus company point of view, we have been trying to define what the budget was so that we could present a proposal at the right price so if anyone has any accurate relevant info please let me now.

I would happily attend a resident association EGM to find a viable solution.
<snip> - No online canvassing

matt-dublin

Finnegan Bray wrote: »

Quick update - As a councillor & dail candidate I have contacted the management company (Wyse) and they have confirmed that this is a decision for the resident's association. I have also investigated the planning permission and the finer details are archived in Wicklow County Council and are being sourced for me- will confirm the details when I get them

From our bus company point of view, we have been trying to define what the budget was so that we could present a proposal at the right price so if anyone has any accurate relevant info please let me now.

I would happily attend a resident association EGM to find a viable solution.

Finnegan,

i think you will find that there were no obligations/conditions set around a bus service but however there were observations made around the bus service by both an bord pleanala and wicklow planning authority

there's some references made to it here:
http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/126750.htm
http://www.wicklow.ie/ePlan41/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=014910&LASiteID=0

i thought you guys had a pay as you go license issued by wicklow co co, why don't you offer up a pay as you use service?

you've seen all of the information posted previously about how many people use it, how much money it potentially could turn over etc.

or are you just using this thread to get a local vote and a bit of business from us.

hamstervision

matt-dublin wrote: »

People have wanted there management fees lowered since the beginning o management companies... They still don't show up.

Right, so people should have turned up at the AGM to have been aware of the issue and had a vote. But people weren't told about this particular issue in case they turned up to vote?

I definitely agree that the AGM attendances should be higher, but with an issue like this that effects everyone in the estate (one way or another, be it the commute and/or the fees) it makes no sense to me that (a) it wasn't brought to everyone's attention before being voted upon and, so, (b) the deed was already done by the time people even knew about it, so it's pretty much too late to do anything about it (based on people saying their fees have already been reduced accordingly).

If most people want it gone, that's fair. But the basis of this decision doesn't seem to be based on having polled everyone, it's based on some vague polls that were apparently done. When were they done? How were they done? Volume could have been abnormally low that week (holidays or something) or, for that matter, abnormally high that week.

So I'm not angry at the decision itself if it's what people want. I am, however, very angry about how it was done. And I'm frustrated that it seems to be too late to do anything about it.

mikedragon32

Finnegan, if you want to help, help, but for the love of God, please stop canvassing on thread.

Annasopra

Matt-Dublin - Are you on the CORC?