The Bus to keep or not to keep?

matt-dublin

Judy, the harsh reality is that less than 30% of the estate use it, and that 30% is based on 1 person living on each house, if youbreally want to get technical aboutnit we could say theres an average of 2 adults per household in charlesland (the average if you take int account let properties comes up to 2.4 I believe).

Theres a total of 1349 residential dwellings in charlesland with the taken 2 adults per dwelling brings a total of 2698 adults potentially that are eligible to use the bus.

Assuming that there are 400 individual users of the bus on a daily basis however unlikely it is, that's about 15% usage.

This doesn't take into account the school children who use it during shool term which I've seen on the later buses to be between 10-12 kids.

This also doesn't take into account the non charlesland residents using the bus which I would reckon to be another 10 a day.

In 2007 we had a total population of about 2500 with the estate not complete, I would expect the population to be at around the 3000 Mark with children over the age of 3 which brings usage down to 13%

The argument to remove the bus is a very valid one.

matt-dublin

MyPerfectCousin wrote: »

What's the percentage usage of the "Charlesland Community Centre"?

Where is the Charlesland Community Centre?

It's above puroga childcare. I think it was only officially handed over last year. You can request access for non commercial things via wise but I think that commercial users have to lease it. I also believe there's a nominal usage charge for it to cover electricity, heating etc. (am not 100% about it though)

MyPerfectCousin

matt-dublin wrote: »

It's above puroga childcare. I think it was only officially handed over last year. You can request access for non commercial things via wise but I think that commercial users have to lease it. I also believe there's a nominal usage charge for it to cover electricity, heating etc. (am not 100% about it though)

Thanks. Just wanted to know where my management fees, that I pay on time, were going. Maybe I'll need this "centre" (what is it, an empty room?) at some point during my Charlesland residency.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic, because I found that letter from the Charlesland Overall Residents’ Committee just a wee bit insulting and disingenuous. And I had no idea I was paying for a community centre that also requires a fee if I want to use it.

sysconp1

This does pose an opportunity for some enterprising person to set up a business. Perhaps selling a prepaid weekly card in the local superquin that will allow a minibus operator to provide the service instead. No card no journey. This would mean that only the people that use the service pay for it and the minibus owner/driver gets a good income. If it doesn't prove feasible then its fair enough, but at least folks have a choice.
Charlesland cabs would probably jump at this opportunity! As for a full minibus, well that would just mean more frequent journies to service the volumes of passengers.

threetrouts

Just reading posts and bored tonight went on cso website to find the exact population of charlesland in 06 census. Finally after half an hour I found we were not in the Greystones area of 20000 at all we are in with Kilcoole.I broke it down and wait for it in 2006 with the estate almost complete on census night there were 3920 in residence in 1035 units in Charlesland.
I believe some of the stats above are way off.
I double checked and cross referenced with an electoral register and there are currently 2434 registered to vote here in our 3 boxes
.Not having full occupany in 06 and over 200 more units occupied since and a baby boom we must have close to 5000 here.So that would mean bus usage would be half what committee claims 6 to 10% or if we go on Mikes stats which are closest capacity if full 360 about 7% this morning 20 of us on it tonight 9 on way home feeling guilty about using it now knowing how much 90% of residents are paying for us..

matt-dublin

threetrouts wrote: »

Just reading posts and bored tonight went on cso website to find the exact population of charlesland in 06 census. Finally after half an hour I found we were not in the Greystones area of 20000 at all we are in with Kilcoole.I broke it down and wait for it in 2006 with the estate almost complete on census night there were 3920 in residence in 1035 units in Charlesland.
I believe some of the stats above are way off.
I double checked and cross referenced with an electoral register and there are currently 2434 registered to vote here in our 3 boxes
.Not having full occupany in 06 and over 200 more units occupied since and a baby boom we must have close to 5000 here.So that would mean bus usage would be half what committee claims 6 to 10% or if we go on Mikes stats which are closest capacity if full 360 about 7% this morning 20 of us on it tonight 9 on way home feeling guilty about using it now knowing how much 90% of residents are paying for us..

So what you're saying is that my estimates are wrong and the population is nearly double the amount I had suggested then bringing the usage stats to near on 7-10%

Further argument that it's not used,...

Walkingto the dart station this evening i saw it pass twice (yes I'm a slow walker) and both times there were no more than 10 people on it

skelly22

More like 6% - 7% Judy1, and lets not forget also that this service is heavily used by people from The Fairways, I presume at our expense.....doesn't seem right that I pay an inflated mgmt fee of €940.00 annually to accomodate this service while their contribution is zero.

matt-dublin

skelly22 wrote: »

More like 6% - 7% Judy1, and lets not forget also that this service is heavily used by people from The Fairways, I presume at our expense.....doesn't seem right that I pay an inflated mgmt fee of €940.00 annually to accomodate this service while their contribution is zero.

Skelly, they pay towards it actually.

The fairways/seaborne view is part of charlesland

Langerland

It is interesting that Skelly is not the first person on this thread (and other threads) to make that point. Correct, Matt, Seabourne View residents contribute as much as anybody else in the Charlesland area (I was going to say community, but I don't think that word applies here) but many people seem to think they don't. It's very much a matter of "Im not paying for them" and maybe that is one of many factors in the massive number of people in arrears in management fee's throughout the development.

matt-dublin

I would think the same, if you look at it actually SV pay about 20% of the bus charges

There is an attitude in the estate of why should I bother, what do I get out of it.

Might be just time to start removing services from the people who dont pay up.

audreyp

I totally agree, I don't mind paying management fees if I have a nice estate to live in. Its unfair that some people pay and some don't! There are plenty of payment plans to make the fees more affordable! (Which we actually use ourselves)

judy1

I came across this letter on the bus this morning that one of our good residents left on it. It goes as follows....

Dear Residents of Charlesland

As you are undoubtedly aware this shuttle bus service will be terminating it's services on the 31st of March 2011. The reason for this is simply down to costs. I have been in contact with the management company who have advised that a number of residents have not been paying the fee for the bus. The earliest bus to the dart station is the 184 which stops at charlesland at 06:30. The only other alternative is the 84 which goes via kilcoole and does not presently list charlesland as a stop.

Please be aware of the minimum fair from charlesland to the dart station €1.85 and frequency does not necessarily reflect the time table of the dart.

Suggested Action:
1 Have the bus company operate a private service for which an amount is payed weekly entitling an individual to pick up and drop off over the 5 days.

2 send a email to Wyse asking them to explain why this service which many residents have paid for is been removed, please cc charleslandbus@gmail.com when emailing Wyse so we can get an idea of how many people are affected by thie issue.

3 please email charleslandbus@gmail.com advising how many in your house hold use this bus and where possible approximate time so I can create an effective analysis/business plan for the coach/driver should it come down to that.

The management company is:

WYSE Property Management
South City Centre,
Head Office:
94 Lr Baggot Street
Dublin2

Tel: 01 6470600

Info@wyse.ie

Please cc: charleslandbus@gmail.com

Please note I do not need names or addresses, simple times and number so as to work out how many people are affected by this issue. I am simply doing this because this is an essential service that we all as a community need.

Please surport this service your service...


Well folks this is as I said left on the bus seats this morning... I don't know if we can do much now, but let's fight for our bus. What's the worse that can happen? Lose or bus:mad:

matt-dublin

Judy,

it was nothing to do with wyse, they're not in a position to remove or add the service, It was a decision of the overall committee.

If you have an issue with this you should take it up with your local committee chairperson who will be a member of the overall committee.

markest

From Dublin Bus website:

Fares
Adult Fares
Stages 1 – 3
€1.20

Stages 4 – 7
€1.65

Stages 8 – 13
€1.85

Over 13 Stages
€2.30

Outer Suburban 1
€2.30

Outer Suburban 2
€3.60

Outer Suburban 3
€4.60


Children’s Fares (Under 16)
Stages 1 – 7
€0.80

Over 7 Stages
€1.00


Schoolchild Fare (Under 16)
All Stages
€0.65*


Scholar Fares (16-18 years)
Normal adult cash fares apply

Shopper’s Fare
City Centre Fare
€0.50


Xpresso Fares
Adult Fares
Travel within 1 Zone
€2.60

Travel between 2 Zones
€3.60

Children’s Fares
Travel within 1 Zone
€1.70

Travel between 2 Zones
€2.00








* Schoolchild Cash Fares apply only during normal school terms, for travel between home and school Monday to Friday up to 17:00hrs and on Saturday up to 13:30hrs

hamstervision

matt-dublin wrote: »

If you have an issue with this you should take it up with your local committee chairperson who will be a member of the overall committee.

Out of curiosity, where can one find contact details for their local chairperson?

matt-dublin

I think a lot of the fares have been discussed before whereby if you're paying individual fares on a daily basis you're hemmoragin money.

have a look at http://www.taxsavers.ie/Ticket-Calculator/Ticket-Calculator/

Paying daily would average at about €220 a month using the bus (3 stops between charlesland/greystones station)

a monthly unlimited use bus and rail ticket is €119, if you buy it via your employer its €82 if you're on the lower tax band and €57 if you're on the higher band.

matt-dublin

hamstervision wrote: »

Out of curiosity, where can one find contact details for their local chairperson?

should be in the minutes of your AGM letters, or contact your management agents for contact details.

judy1

matt-dublin wrote: »

Judy,

it was nothing to do with wyse, they're not in a position to remove or add the service, It was a decision of the overall committee.

If you have an issue with this you should take it up with your local committee chairperson who will be a member of the overall committee.

Matt, as I've already said some where in these post, I do have a slight problem with the way this was handled. And I've already come to the fact we have lost our service. And as I clearly stated that the letter I copied on to this was one that was handed out on the bus this morning. And if I'd done that letter there would have been a lot of F-ing and Blinding in it.

J

mikedragon32

judy1 wrote: »

Matt, as I've already said some where in these post, I do have a slight problem with the way this was handled. And I've already come to the fact we have lost our service. And as I clearly stated that the letter I copied on to this was one that was handed out on the bus this morning. And if I'd done that letter there would have been a lot of F-ing and Blinding in it.

J

... and one or two emoticons, I would have thought!

Annasopra

hamstervision wrote: »

Out of curiosity, where can one find contact details for their local chairperson?

In the Useful numbers and local services [updated 06-02-11] thread

Charlesland Court O'Farrell Property Managers 01-2360094 - Res. Committee: charleslandcourt@hotmail.com

Charlesland Crescent Res. Committee: thecrescentcharlesland@gmail.com

Charlesland Wood Res. Committee: charleslandcommittee4U@gmail.com

Charlesland Grove & Park Kennedy Wright
District Unit 1, Charlesland Retail Estate, Greystones, Wicklow
Tel: 01 2871905 info@kennedywright.ie

Charlesland Shopping Center CBRE

Charlesland Wood Wyse Property Management 01 647 0600 info@wyse.ie www.wyse.ie Res. Committee: charleslandwood@gmail.com

Seabourne View Res. Committee: seabourneview@gmail.com

hamstervision

Johnnymcg wrote: »

In the Useful numbers and local services [updated 06-02-11] thread

Thanks, but the Charlesland Wood email address doesn't seem to work if you're looking for a reply...

skelly22

matt-dublin wrote: »

Skelly, they pay towards it actually.

The fairways/seaborne view is part of charlesland

My apologies so Matt-Dublin, thought it was only paid for by court/grove/park/wood residents.

LMC

Received letter from mgmt co, they say we'll save E50 to E85 per year depending on unit you live in, not much when you think about it.

threetrouts

What part are you living in-- I got my bill in wood and have saved 185 already they have handed it on immediately-off this years bill and thats counting having to pay the first quarter for the bus if you add another 25% next year its a hell of a saving.I am a user of the bus but I can see why my neighbours who dont use it have to subsidise me and 7% of others who live here to the tune of 200 euros a year to go 2 miles down the road to the DART .I walked it this morning and from the wood it took me exactly 16 mins -10 to the mill rd roundabout and 6 to the station.I cycled it in 6 mins on Monday.The bus is gone and wont return the decision was made ultimately by the directors of the company who were entitled legally under the lease agreements and articles of association not by the committes which are all ad hoc and have no legal or other standing according to the lease and articles of association of the associated companies.I would suggest that this thread be closed as the issue is now final as when getting my property assessed by a local estate agent he said the fact that the bus is gone has no real impact as most buyers will drive this being a dormitory town, but prospective buyers googling charlesland for info are being turned off by this thread as we look like a community at war over this. PERCEPTION

darter

threetrouts wrote: »

What part are you living in-- I got my bill in wood and have saved 185 already they have handed it on immediately-off this years bill and thats counting having to pay the first quarter for the bus if you add another 25% next year its a hell of a saving.I am a user of the bus but I can see why my neighbours who dont use it have to subsidise me and 7% of others who live here to the tune of 200 euros a year to go 2 miles down the road to the DART .I walked it this morning and from the wood it took me exactly 16 mins -10 to the mill rd roundabout and 6 to the station.I cycled it in 6 mins on Monday.The bus is gone and wont return the decision was made ultimately by the directors of the company who were entitled legally under the lease agreements and articles of association not by the committes which are all ad hoc and have no legal or other standing according to the lease and articles of association of the associated companies.I would suggest that this thread be closed as the issue is now final as when getting my property assessed by a local estate agent he said the fact that the bus is gone has no real impact as most buyers will drive this being a dormitory town, but prospective buyers googling charlesland for info are being turned off by this thread as we look like a community at war over this. PERCEPTION

Surprisingly you are dead right with your distance - it is exactly 2.0 km from the Charlesland roundabout to the DART station. I thought it was more.

But doing 2 km in 16 min is a fast walking pace - 7.5 km/h. Average walking pace is 120 paces/min, which is 5.6 kph for the averaged sized man and 4.8 kph for women (are you tall?). This translates to 21.5 mins for men and 25 mins for women. Yes, you can do it faster, but want to arrive to the DART hot and sweaty? Every day? Also, want to do that every morning and every evening every day? Fine in Summer, but through the cold and the rain in the dark in Winter?

Yes, the community is at war over this, and rightly so from the way it has been totally mishandled.

LMC

WOW - I am just passing on information that people had been asking. Its the Court btw.

loyatemu

re: cycling as an option: I expect cycle parking at the station will become fairly chaotic after the bus finishes - its pretty much at capacity now, a few extra Charlesland residents switching to bikes will push it over the top

threetrouts

darter wrote: »

Surprisingly you are dead right with your distance - it is exactly 2.0 km from the Charlesland roundabout to the DART station. I thought it was more.

But doing 2 km in 16 min is a fast walking pace - 7.5 km/h. Average walking pace is 120 paces/min, which is 5.6 kph for the averaged sized man and 4.8 kph for women (are you tall?). This translates to 21.5 mins for men and 25 mins for women. Yes, you can do it faster, but want to arrive to the DART hot and sweaty? Every day? Also, want to do that every morning and every evening every day? Fine in Summer, but through the cold and the rain in the dark in Winter?

Yes, the community is at war over this, and rightly so from the way it has been totally mishandled.

Wow a mathematician I did it again today 17 mins despite the 4 pints I drank last night:P Either there's something wrong with your maths or my watch:pac:. I 'm not tall. I'm 51 and I've walked and cycled every day this week bar one --- on the bus

---

and now feel about 21 years younger:P.Mind you it did take me 21.5 mins for a woman at 120paces / min which was 5.6kph for an over average sized woman top heavy):cool: I arrived home 3 hours after I left the Dart station tonight 2.1 paces per hour- a hell of an uphill trip via the Burnaby-Get a life darter:mad::mad::mad::mad:

threetrouts

darter wrote: »

. This translates to 21.5 mins for men and 25 mins for women..

Anyone that takes 25 minutes to walk to Greystones from Charlesland must be pushing a bus 2km i.e. 2000m in 25 mins thats 80m per minute or one very slow :rolleyes: giant step per second.Yeah Darter you must have been pushing a bus also how dare you say as afemale I walk slower than a male :pac:

darter

threetrouts wrote: »

Wow a mathematician I did it again today 17 mins despite the 4 pints I drank last night:P Either there's something wrong with your maths or my watch:pac:. I 'm not tall. I'm 51 and I've walked and cycled every day this week bar one --- on the bus

---

and now feel about 21 years younger:P.Mind you it did take me 21.5 mins for a woman at 120paces / min which was 5.6kph for an over average sized woman top heavy):cool: I arrived home 3 hours after I left the Dart station tonight 2.1 paces per hour- a hell of an uphill trip via the Burnaby-Get a life darter:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Stop personalizing this - I am giving you facts, not fiction, about the statistics of average adult walking pace that are easily available using any google search "average adult walking pace".

You walk 50% faster than the average, so you are fitter than the average. Well done, I congratulate you, but this is not about you. I wanted to point out that your excellent time should not be used as the benchmark as average. Perhaps everyone in Charlesland is fitter than average? Everyone who takes the DART certainly will become fitter walking it in 16 mins from April 1st onwards... One way to work off the calories from those 4 pints in the Burnaby. Perhaps this is a nefarious Government plan to combat obesity?