Who to Vote for in Laois????

sydthebeat

Is mise le key wrote: »

Well firstly, even the major hedge fund operator george Soros has said making Private debt sovreign debt was totally wrong & should never have happened.
.

completely agree, and if you read my previous post youll see that i said that.

Is mise le key wrote: »

So if we eliminate the €50B allocated to the banks that leaves us retaining €17B of the pension reserve fund for the states use, the fact that sinn fein have advocated using this to get the state back on its feet is shocking to you, is not as shocking to me that you think it is OK to go to the private losses of the bondholders.

AGAIN, read my post, i said the complete opposite.

Is mise le key wrote: »

Now if we raised our Corporation tax by 2.5% as Dr. Michael Smurfit advocated for 4 years only by a few percent still leaving a huge incentive for companies to stay here as we would revert back to the 12.5% after the four years we would increase our CORP Tax intake by approx 3 billion extra a year given the projections on our exports going up to over €170B this year.
.

rubbish, lets be clear here, we actually have international firms washing their profits through our tax system precisely due to the fact of our 12.5% corp tax rate. Raise this even a little and you run the risk of these companies leaving to carry out similar practises in lower tax countries such as cyprus or the new european eastern states. Raising the corporation tax rate will also hinder the attractiveness of ireland for foreign direct investment.... we are already starting from behind when trying to be attractive due to our higher utility rates, wage structures and our dropping education levels.

raising corporation tax rates is another MASSIVE gamble i personally do not want our next government taking.....

Is mise le key wrote: »

Private losses are not sovreign debt, if we ditched this private debt we could solve our problems a lot easier & faster.

completely agree!!!!

we need to deal with this issue with our eyes open however, in a manner that puts as LITTLE risk onto the citizens of this country as possible.. not with a high risk strategy like SF are proposing.

Breoithepaul

Have you seen the list of the bond holders, one name that sticks out is Goldman Sachs.

sydthebeat

two major points here:

1. under IRISH LAW senior bondholders are treated in the same manner as depositors. If the the bank fails, they are entitled to be paid out. Im not saying this is just or right.... i for one think they should have to take a significant hit.... but lets just accept that its not a simple case of "let them eat cake".
There is as yet NO attempt to change this law!!!!!!
And as far as i can see no political party is proposing it either...

burning the bondholders is a catchy sound bite, but to achieve this is a whole other difficult story!!

I want this to happen, but i can see the difficulties present... SF doent seem to.

Another gamble in SFs policy is that, after the default, and they have to go back to the markets again for funding, they are completely open to whatever interest rate the markets wish to impose.... 10% anyone?? 15%? 20%??? who can control this??

2. a lot of irish investment is included in both the senior and subordinated debt.. either way irish taxpayers are going to be hit.. for example through their already flaccid pension funds


anyway, theres a strong feeling out there that this is a phony war anyway and that the senior bond holders are already paid off. This could be a major trojan horse!

Is mise le key

sydthebeat wrote: »

two major points here:

1. under IRISH LAW senior bondholders are treated in the same manner as depositors. If the the bank fails, they are entitled to be paid out. Im not saying this is just or right.... i for one think they should have to take a significant hit.... but lets just accept that its not a simple case of "let them eat cake".
There is as yet NO attempt to change this law!!!!!!
And as far as i can see no political party is proposing it either...

Will you provide the link to this on the statute books please?

Not doubting you just want to understand this law & how old it is etc.

sydthebeat wrote: »

burning the bondholders is a catchy sound bite, but to achieve this is a whole other difficult story!!

I never use soundbites, the bondholders should lose out if they play by capitalist rules, i.e. if your business is insolvent you go bust.

sydthebeat wrote: »

I want this to happen, but i can see the difficulties present... SF doent seem to.

Another gamble in SFs policy is that, after the default, and they have to go back to the markets again for funding, they are completely open to whatever interest rate the markets wish to impose.... 10% anyone?? 15%? 20%??? who can control this??

Just so we are clear here, i will be voting Socialist party,

Now as for this tripe you posted above, if this is the calibre of businesses that would start jacking up price to make us pay then by god then they should be hit for 100% of what THEY lost.

Add to this that that did not happen when russia deafulted on its debts, there are so many ways of the state borrowing money after we tell the bondholders to get stuffed that do you not think in a ruthless capitalist market if prices were going as high as 10 - 15% that you wouldnt then be getting offers from another source at 8-7-6-5-4-3%?

Of course you would because the 'investors' would recognise that rates as high as the scare tactic ones you spewed out are not repayable & would never materialise anyway.

Why else do you think you have the IMF now saying that some negotiation might be possible, & guys like soros publicly stating that it is wrond to pass private debt to sovreign debt?

Answer: they know that the interests rates as they stand are not sustainable & are getting rattled that it will lead to a real social backlash leaving their only source of reaping wealth potentially out of their reach.....the people of the nation in its entirety!!!

Change is coming, not just for ireland but for the entire EU, the writing is on the wall.

I for one will never advocate in any way that the state capitulate to private business that goes bankrupt & cover their losses.

New politics & business with new ethics & integrity is the only way forward, not a return to the same system that has brought us here & has so many people suffering & yes people are suffering!!!!

A vote for Ray Fitzpatrick is a vote for real a change that does not buy into the system that has ruined us and many other countries. I know that is what you here off all politicians but the facts are that all the establishment parties have bought into the rules & systems that got us here & intend to return us to that very same system which by its very nature will fail again bringin more misery in the future.

When your son, daughter, brother, sister has to leave this country because of the state we are in due to this fu.cked up international bookies system of gambling that is covered by entire states people if the bets are lost you will be kicking yourself if you give your vote to FF, FG, LP. Vote for a real alternative that will challenge the system that is cutting rates, services & pay in order to 'correct' itself.

A sustainable system that grows over time based on production & Labour & state controlled finacial institutions.

Vote for the United Left Alliance, Ray Fitzpatrick.

sydthebeat

and thus concludes the party political broadcast for...... :rolleyes:


to conclude, i will NOT be voting for any party who is proposing such a high risk stragety in a time where we need stabilisation and ressurance. Its just swapping the gambling of bankers for the gambling of politicians..... neither of whom i trust anymore!

Is mise le key

sydthebeat wrote: »

and thus concludes the party political broadcast for...... :rolleyes:


to conclude, i will NOT be voting for any party who is proposing such a high risk stragety in a time where we need stabilisation and ressurance. Its just swapping the gambling of bankers for the gambling of politicians..... neither of whom i trust anymore!

What gamble?

Dont cover €50B in Private losses, keep the €17B of the €24B pension reserve fund & raise the CORP Tax by 4% for four years & we would be in a far far far better position to actually create employment in Ireland.

The interest on the IMF' Bailout' will be heading towards €10B by 2014 should we draw it down fully by then........thats €10,000,000,000 in interest alone!!!!

You really do have to take a fresh look at this honestly, the recession will deepen if we cover the private banks losses, if we cut them loose we will get investment from other sources without a doubt at more favorable rates without a MASSIVE LOAN with INTEREST on our backs.

Evolution Enter

I can just picture this discussion taking place on doorways around Laois.

sydthebeat

Is mise le key wrote: »

if we cut them loose we will get investment from other sources without a doubt at more favorable rates without a MASSIVE LOAN with INTEREST on our backs.

glad you have so much confidence in international markets...

ill choose the devil i know, thanks...

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Is mise le key

sydthebeat wrote: »

glad you have so much confidence in international markets...

ill choose the devil i know, thanks...

Ahh now you assume i am suggesting borrowing from private lenders,

Once we axe the private debt we have been saddlled with,
Raise CORP tax for 4 years or so,
Tax 5% on wealth exceeding 1 million in deposits,
We would need a minor amount of Sovreign borrowing from Sovreign nations in order to put the private financial sharks out in the cold & eventually in a few short years break free from the mess we have been handed & 'bonded' into for decades if we allow the course of events to unfold the way they are.

People need to start thinking of other ways of getting us out of this swamp other than what is being propagated by the 'financial markets' & 'private lenders' as it is in their interest that we do not get out of it to quickly if at all.

I mean how much of a conflict of interest was it to have Brian lenihan negotaiting with the IMF when he works for them?

Lets be clear here also, the IMF is a private company & its polcies are not decided by any governments but by the company itself.

I mean how can we trust & go along with a man & government together with the IMF were denying there were any negotiations on Nov 17th,

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1117/economy.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1117/breaking26.html

While he was giving speeches to the IMF in the IMF building on 8th Oct 2010,

brian lenihan wrote:

The most pressing issue for Ireland now is the need to correct the mismatch between
what the Government spends and what it takes in by way of taxation revenue each year.
In setting the Budget for this year, my priority was to stabilise the deficit, and – excluding
one-off issues related to the banking sector – that is what is happening. The next step is
to put the deficit on a declining path so as to be below 3 per cent of GDP in 2014. I plan
to publish a four-year budgetary plan next month detailing the consolidation measures
necessary to achieve this. I have also reiterated to my European colleagues the
Government’s determination to reach the agreed deficit threshold within the agree
timeframe, and I want to stress this point again today.

Now if thats not indicating to you that the 'bailout' & our options for getting out of this have been contrived then it is a lost cause on some folks.

sydthebeat

Is mise le key wrote: »

Once we axe the private debt we have been saddlled with,
[/FONT]

illegal in the case of senior bond holders

Is mise le key wrote: »

Raise CORP tax for 4 years or so,
[/FONT]

absolute lunacy!!! could cause so much damage.. the risks of which are real and sever

Is mise le key wrote: »

Tax 5% on wealth exceeding 1 million in deposits,
[/FONT]

laughable. we already have a very high tax rate for our "wealthy"... and if you start taxing extra on deposits, the deposits will simply be moved to a better source.

we live in a world where wealth is so flexible and moveable.

you view that we can become some autonomous state with closed financial borders is simply so far outlandishly simplistic that its just plain incorrect. we cannot restrict movement of wealth around the EU or the wider financial world, thus we cannot simply say.. that money there is going to get taxed ever higher....

everything you propose simply cannot happen in view of the current legal status quo in ireland, EU and wider....

are you proposing to change european law??

Im afraid your policies are simply panderning to the masses... there hasnt been indepth investigation done...

can you assure the public that by "burning the bondholders" that that move would not impact their pensions, their life assurance policies.. even their own cash in deposit accounts????? ill answer that for you, no you cannot!.

I do belive they need to take a hit, i believe the debt needs to be restructured.... but in agreeable terms..... but not to the extent that you are saying, you simply saying proposing to default on the whole figure.... that is a hugely high risk stragety.

Is mise le key

sydthebeat wrote: »

illegal in the case of senior bond holders

Link?

sydthebeat wrote: »

absolute lunacy!!! could cause so much damage

So lets continue with damaging the lives of the people at the bottom instead of making the people that earn billions pay more, when you have one of irelands most successful business men Michael Smurfit telling you that the major companies shared in the great times when there profits were soaring then it is onlt right they should, to use his own words,
"ease the strain on the irish purse"

sydthebeat wrote: »

laughable. we already have a very high tax rate for our "wealthy"... and if you start taxing extra on deposits, the deposits will simply be moved to a better source.

we live in a world where wealth is so flexible and moveable.

Ahh i see so its blackmail is the order of the day, my reply above also reffers to this, huge wealth made when it was all good but dont even dare suggest that some should be given back when we are in the pits.

sydthebeat wrote: »

you view that we can become some autonomous state with closed financial borders is simply so far outlandishly simplistic that its just plain incorrect. we cannot restrict movement of wealth around the EU or the wider financial world, thus we cannot simply say.. that money there is going to get taxed ever higher....

everything you propose simply cannot happen in view of the current legal status quo in ireland, EU and wider....

are you proposing to change european law??

We would only be controlling our lending institutions so they are not so influenced by external factors.

One last point i forgot to mention is that we should be taxing shell up to 90% on all gas it takes from the west coast once works are complete, they did after all receive it for nothing.

sydthebeat

Is mise le key wrote: »

Link?
.

are you disputing this??????
its a commonly know fact.

Theres no point trying to convience me otherwise.. ive made my decision. I wont be voting SF, or ULA, because i am of the opinion that their economic policy is dangerous. i wont be voting FF for obvious reasons.

Is mise le key

sydthebeat wrote: »

are you disputing this??????
its a commonly know fact.
.

Is there much point in continuing this conversation if you cannot recall the first response i gave to you when you posted that,

Is mise le key wrote: »

Will you provide the link to this on the statute books please?

Not doubting you just want to understand this law & how old it is etc.

sydthebeat wrote: »

Theres no point trying to convience me otherwise.. ive made my decision. I wont be voting SF, or ULA, because i am of the opinion that their economic policy is dangerous. i wont be voting FF for obvious reasons.

So that means it Labour, FG or an independent, good man, because the economic policies that got us here wernt dangerous!!!!!

sydthebeat

Is mise le key wrote: »

Is there much point in continuing this conversation if you cannot recall the first response i gave to you when you posted that,

So that means it Labour, FG or an independent, good man, because the economic policies that got us here wernt dangerous!!!!!

you expect me to thrawl through statutory instruments to find something which is commonly held as law??? not happening!!!

perhaps you could read this

and ive already said that im not voting FF

joe_dunne

Atheist Ireland have written up six questions to ask all candidates, hey can be read here

Joe Dunne
Authentic Samurai martial Arts in Laois

mr. vain

Mr. Stanley for me, As a Dublin man living in Portlaoise he has welcomed me and my family to the town.

He also calls to our house in between elections. I will give my first preferance.

I could,nt pass him by.

Shazanne

Yes, he seems very popular locally. Just still very unsure about the Sinn Fein policies in general though. The party seems to have some really excellent candidates around the country but what would happen if they got into power?

elvis jones

I won't be voting Sinn Fein thats for sure, policies are the stuff of dreams.....not the good dreams either.

FF..........not a chance

FG.........kenny is a lemon and i really don't trust some of the waffle they have come out with

Labour..........Any vote that will help have Joan Bruton on the tv and radio more isn't a good one.

Green.......eh no, nuff said

Some of the ind i've looked at are members or former members or political parties so in my book not really indi.

The list is getting rather short rather quickly.

I am leaning towards Romiti as he hasn't been around the Irish political system that long and that can't be a bad thing really !

mr. vain

Shazanne wrote: »

Yes, he seems very popular locally. Just still very unsure about the Sinn Fein policies in general though. The party seems to have some really excellent candidates around the country but what would happen if they got into power?

One of the things that appeals to me about Mr. Stanley is his promise to live on the average industrial wage if elected, We are all feeling the pinch and its good to see a positive example beig set.

A few facts:
John Moloney Fianna Fail, not a bad guy and in politics a long time most likley to lose his seat this time.

Charlie Flanagan Fine Gael, holding the seat once held by his father the late Oliver J.

John Whelan Labour, once part of the Fianna Fail machine and a Journalist by trade.

John Moran Fine Gael, An absolute gentleman and a hard worker, A County Council member from south Laois.

Sean Fleming Fianna Fail, An accountant and former national director of Finance for the party.

Dont know Much about the offaly candidates but would follow the Laois scene in the local papers.

Shazanne

Thank you for that Mr Vain - it's exactly the type of feedback I have been looking for since I started this thread:)
Must say your descriptions sound very fair an unbiased - fair play to you.
I quite like the sound of John Moran (FG). I will endeavour to get further information about him.
Thanks again.

elvis jones

mr. vain wrote: »

One of the things that appeals to me about Mr. Stanley is his promise to live on the average industrial wage if elected, We are all feeling the pinch and its good to see a positive example beig set.

A few facts:
John Moloney Fianna Fail, not a bad guy and in politics a long time most likley to lose his seat this time.

Charlie Flanagan Fine Gael, holding the seat once held by his father the late Oliver J.

John Whelan Labour, once part of the Fianna Fail machine and a Journalist by trade.

John Moran Fine Gael, An absolute gentleman and a hard worker, A County Council member from south Laois.

Sean Fleming Fianna Fail, An accountant and former national director of Finance for the party.

Dont know Much about the offaly candidates but would follow the Laois scene in the local papers.

Yes but thats a party agreement where the rest of his wage is given over to Sinn Fein, so we still pay the money out as tax payers but instead of it going to the person it goes to a political party.

maccored

elvis jones wrote: »

Yes but thats a party agreement where the rest of his wage is given over to Sinn Fein, so we still pay the money out as tax payers but instead of it going to the person it goes to a political party.

... to employ an extra worker.

elvis jones

Wow good wages if the AIW is 39 K and a TD gets a basic of 92 K, thats 53k of tax payers money to employ someone in Sinn Fein ? Do they not get donations like any other political party to run it or do they have to use tax payers money to do so.

If mr stanley was to give the money to local charities i would respect it but to have it over to a political party is not something i like or agree with.

As a man i believe he is very good BUT i can't vote for him once he attached to the party he is.

maccored

elvis jones wrote: »

Wow good wages if the AIW is 39 K and a TD gets a basic of 92 K, thats 53k of tax payers money to employ someone in Sinn Fein ? Do they not get donations like any other political party to run it or do they have to use tax payers money to do so.

If mr stanley was to give the money to local charities i would respect it but to have it over to a political party is not something i like or agree with.

As a man i believe he is very good BUT i can't vote for him once he attached to the party he is.

then obviously they could employ 2 more people - thats three people employed for the price of one. Whats your problem with that exactly - other than your very obvious anti SF attitude? You know what - dont bother with an answer. Im sure its going to be just as silly. For the record - SF operate on a very tiny budget compared to other parties.

elvis jones

maccored wrote: »

then obviously they could employ 2 more people - thats three people employed for the price of one. Whats your problem with that exactly - other than your very obvious anti SF attitude? You know what - dont bother with an answer. Im sure its going to be just as silly. For the record - SF operate on a very tiny budget compared to other parties.

My problem is that its quoted that he only gets paid the AIW, but he gets the full 92k. He doesn't just hand it back, he gives it to his political party. Not to a charity or worthy cause. Thats my problem if you would think its a problem.

I have nothing against Sinn Fein, i do have a problem with their policies or lack of. From what i have seen so far its you say black and we'll take the position of white just to be different.

I do believe they are great community workers but that is not the job of a TD, that is what the council is for. TD's are there to legislate ( not that they do much of it ) and all parties spend too much time at funerals and collecting passports !

Is mise le key

elvis jones wrote: »

My problem is that its quoted that he only gets paid the AIW, but he gets the full 92k. He doesn't just hand it back, he gives it to his political party. Not to a charity or worthy cause. Thats my problem if you would think its a problem.

!

I think your being a little bit pedantic really,

He will only take the AIW.

Now is that worded better?

If the rest of the money goes to building the party, and you beleive that it is a worthwhile party, (which you dont but that aside), and that party works for the people then your view is kind if contradicting itself.

Stanley has proven himself with the people of laois offaly, & if the voters that give him a number one because of his work for them know that the rest of the money paid to him will go into building the party they have received so much work from on their behalf, then it really justifys itself if he gets elected and said party becomes stronger to work on their behalf even more.

If they gave it to charity it would be very admirable also but why not build the party stronger in order to give back more of what the people have democratically voted for.

The Socialist party/United Left Alliance have always had this as one of their party foundations, joe higgins has never taken any more than the AIW & built the Socialist party to what it is today.

Ray Fitz has also vowed to only take the AIW & put the rest back into the party that the people who give him their vote for.

I find it hard to understand how you can find anything wrong in this really.

Is mise le key

I see Ray is coming up very popular on journal.ie,

152 views when you Click most popular on website

laois gael

Brian stanley for mee don't agree with all things sinn féin but he is the best local man and will do the most for this area...

John Moran of fine gael is also a good man aswell.

Is mise le key

laois gael wrote: »

Brian stanley for mee don't agree with all things sinn féin but he is the best local man and will do the most for this area...

John Moran of fine gael is also a good man aswell.

I have to say that ray is a genuine guy & 100% will fight for what is in the interest of the most needy in society.
I see the FF'ers arent doing to well on the vote:eek::D;)