Your 1000m row time!

Barry.Oglesby

AntiVirus wrote: »

Ah ok, I thought this was your first time using the rower. 1:26 is an great time too. If that's your time after 3 years without rowing I'm sure you'll get down to a 1:20.

You should put up a leader board in the gym. It would be good for some competitive fun.

Way ahead of you. Put a 500 time up last night. Though "fun" probably isn't the first word that springs to mind! Hedley posted the best time last night, 1.23 which is actually my previous PB. I have cunning plans to oust him though involving spiking his drinks.

I think i can shave a few seconds off by just improving my technique slightly. I felt a bit jerky in the seat last night and I did have okay technique before as one of my old training partners was an erg freak. (he had his name on the C2 website leaderboard at one stage) My plan would be to keep 1.16/7 pace for the first 250m and then try to sustain 1.20 for 100m, then as you know it's all just balls and tears for the final 150m. Balls and tears.

I'm not sure what my 1000m time will be and I won't get a chance to do it today. Based on last night I'd say it will be sub 3min pace for 600m and then just fall off and DNF.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Hanley wrote: »

Hands up who owns a C2??

Myself and Barry just got our hands on a Model E C2 w/ PM4 monitor today. Don't hate!!



Christened it with a 500m for time test and 2 of the gym's fighters did 30sec on/30sec off x10.

I pulled a 1m 23.8s - shocked and delighted with that!

1m23.8 is a very good time H. Thankfully not quite as good as my historic best which was 1m23.1 or 1m22.9 cannot remember precisely.

What level were you at, out of interest?

Now for fun please do a 1k and suffer...:D

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

When I said we should do a 500m it took him about 23.8 seconds to cover the last metre to the rower alright. 500s are horrific. Might do a 1000 tomorrow if I have some time in the afternoon.

It will only take 3-4 mins Barry - you should defo do one.

I was only talking to my dentist yesterday about my quest for a sub 3min 1k.

He thinks it's very doable if one trains everyday and does endurance weights.

I asked about training and he said get the speed work in with minute on minute off pieces two seconds less than race pace so 1m28 and at least 10 min on min off pieces!:eek:

Fair enough - going to get back on this.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Sub 1m20 500m can be trained for BUT the technique that works for this is not normal rowing technique - more stress on the lower back.

This is good to give you guys a good example of what the actual rowers are doing - very few do less than 1m12 even for a stroke of or two!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi-kOcmAwiY

Barry.Oglesby

The Guvnor wrote: »

It will only take 3-4 mins Barry - you should defo do one.

I was only talking to my dentist yesterday about my quest for a sub 3min 1k.

He thinks it's very doable if one trains everyday and does endurance weights.

I asked about training and he said get the speed work in with minute on minute off pieces two seconds less than race pace so 1m28 and at least 10 min on min off pieces!:eek:

Fair enough - going to get back on this.

I think he's wrong. I ain't no rower but I know things about physicalnesitude. If I were interested in doing a sub 3 minutes, I'd build my power base first (strength and power) and work on my endurance on the rower.

Hanley

Between 2 and 3 minutes

The Guvnor wrote: »

1m23.8 is a very good time H. Thankfully not quite as good as my historic best which was 1m23.1 or 1m22.9 cannot remember precisely.

What level were you at, out of interest?

Now for fun please do a 1k and suffer...:D

I think it was on 10... Does it matter?

I'll do a 1km next time I'm in the gym with someone to give me some stick. No way am I interested in suffering that much in solitude!!

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I have cunning plans to oust him though involving spiking his drinks.

Spike me with roidzz please.

The Guvnor wrote: »

I was only talking to my dentist yesterday about my quest for a sub 3min 1k.

He thinks it's very doable if one trains everyday and does endurance weights.

I was talking to my mechanic about my investment strategies last night... :D

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

I did ask for that.


In all fairness he did win a few national titles in an eight and came second a while back in the BIRC posting 6m10 for a 2k in his mid 40's.

I think at his best he did a 7m35 for 2.5k which was the distance at the time for the erg.

I am with you on the power Barry but as an ex-rower myself I know what he means and do agree with him.

The stroke in theory is always the same except for distance you do 20 strokes a minute and at pace you do 28-32. The lower splits yielded purely by the extra speed.

Level 10 - I cannot row at level 10. Were you rating high or low? I would do a 500m piece at level 4-5.

100m are fun on the erg - anything sub 16 seconds is good and under 15 seconds is very good.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Good to get a bit of comp on the erg back again - Transform might even program in a 1k sometime this year...:D

Hanley

Between 2 and 3 minutes

The Guvnor wrote: »

I did ask for that.


In all fairness he did win a few national titles in an eight and came second a while back in the BIRC posting 6m10 for a 2k in his mid 40's.

I think at his best he did a 7m35 for 2.5k which was the distance at the time for the erg.

I am with you on the power Barry but as an ex-rower myself I know what he means and do agree with him.

The stroke in theory is always the same except for distance you do 20 strokes a minute and at pace you do 28-32. The lower splits yielded purely by the extra speed.

Level 10 - I cannot row at level 10. Were you rating high or low? I would do a 500m piece at level 4-5.

100m are fun on the erg - anything sub 16 seconds is good and under 15 seconds is very good.

Why don't you go at level 10? My rowing knowledge is limited and still don't get how 10 and 4 don't offer different levels of resistance.

Not sure what my rate was tbh. I think Barry's ended up around 36.

All things being equal, if I pull a 500m at the same stroke rate on L4 and L10, which should be quicker?

With strokes, you should generally always aim to rate 28-32, the extra "speed"/faster times being pulled by virtue of a higher power output per stroke, by pulling harder?

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Hanley wrote: »

Why don't you go at level 10? My rowing knowledge is limited and still don't get how 10 and 4 don't offer different levels of resistance.

Not sure what my rate was tbh. I think Barry's ended up around 36.

All things being equal, if I pull a 500m at the same stroke rate on L4 and L10, which should be quicker?

With strokes, you should generally always aim to rate 28-32, the extra "speed"/faster times being pulled by virtue of a higher power output per stroke, by pulling harder?

I cannot row with good technique at level 10.

Levels 1-10 let more air into the flywheel and therefore the drag coefficeint will vary on the machine from about 90-130 or so IIRC.

Level 4 will be about 105. Now perhaps level 6 is a fair compromise this is about 115 or so.

On the power - in theory the power per stroke is always the same - this does go out the window a bit but if it makes any sense...

When rating 20 or 40 the only difference should be the speed of the recovery which is the time spent coming forward for the next stroke.

As Pinsent said they would do 1m40 or a 1m39.something for 30 minutes at a stroke rate of just 20.

He then goes and does 1m25.6 for 2k but at a stroke rate of 29-32 average. The power per stroke could in fact be more at the lower rate.

The low times come from getting more strokes in. 500m is the limit for muscling the machine IMO - throw in another 500m and perhaps the arms and back get tired but the legs are still freshish but without your arms and back it just gets disjointed etc.

They reckon a competitive stroke in the Ox-Cam boat race is roughly equivalent to lifting 50kg from floor to shoulder 36 times a minute.

You still did 1m23 for 500m and for this distance my advice would probably slow you down but would result in a better time over 1k or 2k and a more comfortable experience for say 30 minutes.:D

AntiVirus

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Hanley wrote: »

I think it was on 10... Does it matter?

No, unless you're training to row on water in which case they suggest a setting of 3-4 to simulate rowing on water.

It doesn't matter what setting you're on, you'll still need to use the same amount of energy to cover the same distance.

AntiVirus

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Hanley wrote: »

Why don't you go at level 10? My rowing knowledge is limited and still don't get how 10 and 4 don't offer different levels of resistance.

10 is like rowing a big heavy boat and 4 would be like rowing a small light boat.
The benefit of rowing the larger boat is that each stroke maybe harder to pull but the size and weight of the boat will allow it to travel further before slowing down. Where as the smaller lighter boat will slow down much quicker after each stroke.

Hanley wrote: »

All things being equal, if I pull a 500m at the same stroke rate on L4 and L10, which should be quicker??

L10, but all things are not equal, you have to cover a set distance. It's a bit like saying there's a ton of weights you need to move, which would be quicker, moving them in sets of 100kg or sets of 40kg. It's all depends on the person.

Hanley wrote: »

With strokes, you should generally always aim to rate 28-32, the extra "speed"/faster times being pulled by virtue of a higher power output per stroke, by pulling harder?

Pushing harder. Blast out with all the power your legs can give is the answer!

Try rowing by just pulling and try rowing by just pushing. Pushing will win all the time.

Barry.Oglesby

Just to note that the 500 we do is just a test and the standard for the test is level 10.

For anything longer than that you'd just burn your arms out!

Hanley

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Did a 3m 20.8s 1km tonight after coaching. Damper set to 6. Rated at 30 s/m. About a 6 out of 10 difficulty. How's that put me in the running so far?

AntiVirus

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Hanley wrote: »

Did a 3m 20.8s 1km tonight after coaching. Damper set to 6. Rated at 30 s/m. About a 6 out of 10 difficulty. How's that put me in the running so far?

Even for only a 6 out of 10 effort thats still a good 1km time! You've still got another 4 gears to go

AntiVirus

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Just to note that the 500 we do is just a test and the standard for the test is level 10.

For anything longer than that you'd just burn your arms out!

Level 10 isn't any hard than level 4. You can't cheat on the rower

Barry.Oglesby

AntiVirus wrote: »

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Just to note that the 500 we do is just a test and the standard for the test is level 10.

For anything longer than that you'd just burn your arms out!

Level 10 isn't any hard than level 4. You can't cheat on the rower

Not for covering distance but when you're talking about fatigue of the arms, the additional resistance does make you burn out is what I mean.

I have to say I didn't think I'd ever say i missed the erg but I definitely did.

AntiVirus

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Not for covering distance but when you're talking about fatigue of the arms, the additional resistance does make you burn out is what I mean.

I have to say I didn't think I'd ever say i missed the erg but I definitely did.

I'd aggree that 10 does give a better all over burn than any other setting would.

I've not been on the C2 for a few months now but I'll be going back to it tomorrow. In a strange way, I'm looking forward to it! :pac:

Hanley

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Now to fill my days idly reading about C2 training...

Best resources anyone?

Barry.Oglesby

No kidding here...

Crossfit.

The forum there has probably the best resource on using the C2 as a general conditioning tool (ie. not for getting better at rowing)

Hanley

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

No kidding here...

Crossfit.

The forum there has probably the best resource on using the C2 as a general conditioning tool (ie. not for getting better at rowing)

Should I snatch it??

Barry.Oglesby

You don't need to you own it already?

Hanley

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

You don't need to you own it already?

Hmmm... should probably clean it so.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Hanley wrote: »

Did a 3m 20.8s 1km tonight after coaching. Damper set to 6. Rated at 30 s/m. About a 6 out of 10 difficulty. How's that put me in the running so far?

Pretty good actually!

3m10 is a very good time and anything under 3 minutes is very, very good.

How was it btw?

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

No kidding here...

Crossfit.

The forum there has probably the best resource on using the C2 as a general conditioning tool (ie. not for getting better at rowing)

But some of the technique is shocking - times are good but technique shocking.

This thread has some decent tips and clips.

Hanley

Between 2 and 3 minutes

The Guvnor wrote: »

Pretty good actually!

3m10 is a very good time and anything under 3 minutes is very, very good.

How was it btw?

hah really? class!! Bringing some leg drive in made a huge difference.

It was honestly fine. Stood up after, walked it off. No death at all. Was ready to go again in about 4 or 5 minutes and then deicded since there's a big seminar in Kyuzo today and had already done my rehab work I'd be sensible. I'll give a 2km time trial ago tomorrow. I'd like to say I'll see if I can get in under 7 minutes, but that could be pie in the sky stuff.

Just watching some rowing tekkers vids atm. I'm doing it so wrong!!

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

• http://concept2.co.uk/records/1000_irish
• http://concept2.co.uk/records/1000_british

• http://concept2.co.uk/records/500_irish
• http://concept2.co.uk/records/500_british

Gives you something to guage the times on.

Hanley

Between 2 and 3 minutes

The Guvnor wrote: »

• http://concept2.co.uk/records/1000_irish
• http://concept2.co.uk/records/1000_british

• http://concept2.co.uk/records/500_irish
• http://concept2.co.uk/records/500_british

Gives you something to guage the times on.

Looks like that Irish 20-29yo 500m record's up for grabs!

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

The big advantage you have is going into this blind so to speak no previous hatred of the machine etc.:)

Technique becomes more important the longer the distance.

2k it is very important - 100m does not matter at all, in fact the technique to row a good 2k would decrease your 100m time.

I am going for a sub 3 mins 1k this year.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

It does look like that for the 500m BUT 2 seconds is a lifetime at the sharp end.

Before I had to take a break pre-xmas I was doing sub 1m20 for 300m.

I tweaked something which was annoying.

I would like to do a 1m19.5 for 500m but not sure which I would be more capable of doing without hurting myself!:D

Hanley

Between 2 and 3 minutes

The Guvnor wrote: »

The big advantage you have is going into this blind so to speak no previous hatred of the machine etc.:)

Brute force and pig ignorance FTW!!

I'm guessing with 1km and up, aerobic base becomes very important?

The Guvnor wrote: »

It does look like that for the 500m BUT 2 seconds is a lifetime at the sharp end.

Before I had to take a break pre-xmas I was doing sub 1m20 for 300m.

I tweaked something which was annoying.

I would like to do a 1m19.5 for 500m but not sure which I would be more capable of doing without hurting myself!:D

Yeah I can well imagine. I'd have to check, but I think I had a 1m 20s split up to the first 250m. Then I just died....

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

A rowing coach will break every piece into 4 segments.

1st is below race pace. 2nd and 3rd you stick it to race pace and 4th if anything left go for it.

Try and think of it like this - inside the c2 is a spinning metal flywheel and we are trying to keep it spinning as fast as possible whilst expending the least amount of effort.

Once at speed it's just keep tapping it to keep the speed up etc.

One thing you could do is see where you go doing say 1 minute at:

20spm
22spm
24spm
26spm
28spm
30spm

Really drive hard on 20 and you will be mid 1m30's at a guess and then you think - well surely I can do three of these?

My best 1k since this thread was started is 3m17.6 and a few lads were sub 3m10.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

1k you defo need endurance!

brownej

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Hanley wrote: »

Looks like that Irish 20-29yo 500m record's up for grabs!

It looks like a few of those records are up for grabs.
I pulled a 1m 38.9s last night and I'm completly rubbish. The record for 30-39 lwt is only 1m 37.7s. If I'm getting close then its very achievable.

UL_heart_throb

how to you officially submit a score for the records? does it need to be done in a test centre or official meet up? can you just take a photo of the concept2's screen?

Hanley

Between 2 and 3 minutes

brownej wrote: »

It looks like a few of those records are up for grabs.
I pulled a 1m 38.9s last night and I'm completly rubbish. The record for 30-39 lwt is only 1m 37.7s. If I'm getting close then its very achievable.

This is so one of those deals where a real rower looks at it and goes "who gives a **** about a C2 record?"

Mellor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Hanley wrote: »

This is so one of those deals where a real rower looks at it and goes "who gives a **** about a C2 record?"

Yeah, pretty much.
I posted earlier that I was a few seconds and lbs off the lightweight record.
Might give it a go for the sake of a target.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

I don't know lads.

Rowers by and large will be good on most distances but on 500m and below it is up for grabs.

Pinsent said when they were doing 10 bursts of 10 strokes the best UK olympians might hit 1m12 or 1m11 or maybe 1m09 based on the machine and where they were altitude etc. he also said he was by no means anywhere near the best.

Therefore we can assume he might hit 1m14 or so for a stroke or two but can maintain 1m25.6 for 5m42 seconds and can maintain 1m31.1 for 15 minutes!

I think Cracknell maintained 1m30.9 for the 15mins or 5k.

Loz Shalalei - UK strongman has done a sub 1m20 for 500m as has Pudz and Karlsen did 1m16 or so.

They are exceptional times. Darren Sadler a sub 105kg UK strongman has also done sub 1m20 which is excellent.

I think the machine can be muscled for 500m and maybe a bit more but 1k and up the smooth technique is an advantage.

To get a record for C2:

• Either do it at an indoor event sanctioned by C2.
• Video the whole event.
• Use the latest machine with a PM4 which gives a code for every time.

They don't really care to be honest on the above unless it's a really good time.

Machines do vary as well IMO not by much but a bit so find a machine you like and keep using the same one all the time!:D

Hanley

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Played some more on the C2 tonight

-15 minutes of rehab/prehab
-5 minute block on the C2 - rated at 26 with an average split of about 1m 43s and covered over 1,400m
-did about 45 minutes of BJJ drilling
-coached for an hour
-15 minutes of rehab/prehab
-5 minute block on the C2 - rated at 27 with an average split of about 1m 42.5s and covered 1,450m

Wonder if I'd have the nutzz to hold that pace for another 2 minutes and go sub 7m for 2km...

AntiVirus

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Hanley wrote: »

Wonder if I'd have the nutzz to hold that pace for another 2 minutes and go sub 7m for 2km...

I'd be very impressed if you got under 7 minutes on your first 2k row! Just have some where nice ready where you can collapse afterwards

Hanley

Between 2 and 3 minutes

AntiVirus wrote: »

I'd be very impressed if you got under 7 minutes on your first 2k row! Just have some where nice ready where you can collapse afterwards

It wouldn't be very hard to just sandbag and wait until I knew I had to actually give it a shot

I'll try for sure before May is out assuming I manage to do something I haven't done in 6 months and get thru a month injury free.

EDIT: and I'd be correct in saying a < 7min 2k is a decent enough time?

AntiVirus

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Hanley wrote: »

AntiVirus wrote: »

I'd be very impressed if you got under 7 minutes on your first 2k row! Just have some where nice ready where you can collapse afterwards

It wouldn't be very hard to just sandbag and wait until I knew I had to actually give it a shot

I'll try for sure before May is out assuming I manage to do something I haven't done in 6 months and get thru a month injury free.

I managed to convince myself not to try the C2 today, I didn't want it to affect my leg session

Good luck when you do try, sub 7mins are excellent times.

Hanley

Between 2 and 3 minutes

AntiVirus wrote: »

I managed to convince myself not to try the C2 today, I didn't want it to affect my leg session

Good luck when you do try, sub 7mins are excellent times.

Hmmm if my calcs are right and I've pulled 1,450 in 5 mins, I need to do the last 550m at a 1m 49.5s pace. Sounds doable right now knowing I did 5 min at a 1m 43.5s average. But practically, probably not so doable.

Mellor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

The Guvnor wrote: »

To get a record for C2:

• Either do it at an indoor event sanctioned by C2.
• Video the whole event.
• Use the latest machine with a PM4 which gives a code for every time.

Actually Guvnor, the PM3 will give you the code too as long as its running above verson 90, I think v.90 is pretty old too.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Sub 7 is good.

If you want my opinion good times for the erg for a non-rower but fit heavyweight male (11st+) would be:

• 500m under 1m30
• 1000m under 3m16
• 2000m under 6m40 / 7m00
• 5000m under 19m00 / 18m20
• 7500m in 30 minutes.

Longer pieces under 2 minutes - sprints under 1m40.

Bench mark for rowers back in the 90's was 2500m in sub 8 minutes which is 1m36 pace.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Mellor - I'm just happy some of the pm3 turn on in my gym and the batteries don't die mid piece!:D

AntiVirus

Between 2 and 3 minutes

I did a 2k row today in a time of 7:22 which I'm pretty pleased with. I just tried to blast my way through it but my technique was crap more pulling than pushing. You don't want to know my my SPM where

My PB is 7:19 but I'm pretty sure I'll beat that this month but trying to knock 22 seconds off is going to take a long long time. :pac:

UL_heart_throb

could an experienced rower do a quicker 2k than a complete novice with a much lower stroke rate?

for example, an experienced rower going at 18 spm beat a novice going 30spm?

like can the machine know a good rower with good technique would get more distance per stroke?

i tried to get faster by increasing my stroke rate but i think i just tired myself out

AntiVirus

Between 2 and 3 minutes

UL_heart_throb wrote: »

could an experienced rower do a quicker 2k than a complete novice with a much lower stroke rate?

for example, an experienced rower going at 18 spm beat a novice going 30spm?

like can the machine know a good rower with good technique would get more distance per stroke?

Yes they could. It's all about the power behind each stroke.

UL_heart_throb wrote:

i tried to get faster by increasing my stroke rate but i think i just tired myself out

What ever way you increase the speed is going to make that happen

If your stroke rate is high and your times are not that good, you're probably not pushing hard enough with your legs.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

The UK team have to do 30 mins at a rate of 20 and in the 30 mins they are expected to do 9000m.

This is a regular session every week - probably 2-4 times in the winter or more.

This equates to:

500m - 1m40
1000m - 3m20
2000m - 6m40
5000m - 16m40