Your 1000m row time!

Orla K

The Guvnor wrote: »

Any update Orla?

You have enough power to go back at the necessary speed.

We are not trying to go back as fast as possible - hard to explain really but everything should be fluid - one smooth continuous movement.

I too am a fan of numbers but the newer C2's take the fun away what with their predicted time/distance etc.

Going to keep this short, I'm tired.

Didn't get a good start to the day so only got to the gym at about 7 tonight and while there before I went on the rower I was doing something were the front of my legs cramped up, not for long. Then when it came to the rowing machines I couldn't use the one I always use and I had to use the one that seems to give me different times. It wasn't a good start and the person beside me was distracting but I tried slowing down the entire action and observing myself as much as I could.

I did 3 lots of 5mins the first one set at 5 which didn't feel right(I'm blaming the different erg) so I moved it up to 7 for the last two

(this is from memory, I wrote it down but its in another room, I'm in bed and the cat has settled on top of me, it's staying in the other room)
28spm 3.21
27spm 3.19
28 spm 2.31 I got so distracted by everything with that last one that I decided to stop there.

Going to try again tomorrow on my machine, hopefully no one else there will decide to use it when I'm around.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Jak - I think at 35-40 guys would hit 1m15 splits so would be around 15 seconds dead.

On 25 spm you can forget a decent 100m time. Perhaps 17 seconds etc.

Key thing here is you can get splits less than 1m20 (very good really) so in theory you can get a good bit under 16 seconds.

Bear in mind Rob Smith who set the world record was averaging 1m09.5

Just to give you extra motivation - when I did 14.9 I won the commercial rowing club 100m erg challenge and top class rowers from the UK and Ireland were there.

I did 15.4, 15.4, 15.3 & 14.9 IIRC nobody else went less than 15.4 so your 16 dead is very tasty!

Of course now I have to go and beat 16 seconds!:D

Basically on your first attempt at 100m's you nailed it! One final thing is the C2 does fail us here though as perhaps you did a 15.99 but it only goes to one decimal place so to get 15.9 you need to be doing a good bit quicker etc.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Well done Orla - you wanted to get into the 20's stroke wise and you did!

Jak

Less than 2 minutes

Yah well watched the Rob Smith clip a few times there and think I will follow his lead in terms of starting position (I was right in at the wheel) - and trying to adopt to a much shorter leg drive. Might be tricky as it is not 'normal'...

Reckon that will let it under 16 for now. Then I just need a machine bolted to the floor and to work on speed a bit.

JAK

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

I 'tried' and failed to work with his technique - he is rating 70 but it looks controlled whereas my 65 spm did not feel controlled at all!

I think for 100m no point being in at the wheel as you 'waste' a few tenths getting back etc. best to get going to full power as fast as possible.

If you take your 25 spm strokes for the 500m piece and think I'll shorten these by 40% then you will get the rate up to about 40 which is spot on imo.

You did mention longer pieces - I'd do 250m never 200m.

I will give the 100m a go again soon when a bit fresher and hope to get 15.9 but I don't know, muscle memory has yet to kick in fully!:)

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Today I did another 30mins on the erg. I moved the damper setting from 3.5 to 4-4.5 and the Drag Factor was 110.

I set the paceboat to a comfortable 1m57.5.

Well the start was excellent:

1. 1st 5 minutes = 1316m = 7896m/30mins = 1m53.9/500m
2. 2nd 5 minutes = 1303m =7818m/30mins = 1m55.1/500m
3. 3rd 5 minutes = 1287m = 7722m/30mins = 1m56.5/500m
4. 4th 5 minutes = 1281m = 7686m/30mins = 1m57.1/500m
5. 5th 5 minutes = 1289m = 7734m/30mins = 1m56.4/500m
6. 6th 5 minutes = 1320m = 7920m/30mins = 1m53.6/500m

My stroke rate was nice and easy at 18-22 - however mostly I was sitting at 20 and the average for the piece was 20 spm.

After a bit of a cool down I did just one 250m piece.

I was rating about 28 and did a relatively comfortable 46.5s which would equate to a 3m06 for 1000m!

It's definitely harder doing the erg than the cross trainers etc!:D

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Best of luck to the boards.ie members competing down in Trinity today.

Killme00

Between 2 and 3 minutes

5000m in 20:55.1 @ 2:05/500avg

SPM was 25
Really happy with the improvement in the stroke rate. I studied the technique at the weekend and it looks to have paid off. It along with the 500 avg was what i kepy my eye on today. Need to be consistent and carry that through to the 30mins now.


500m 1k 2k 5k 30' 10k 60' HM
01:56.3 03:37.5 00:00.0 20:55.1 6852 00:00.0 0 0:00:00.0

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Well done K!

How did the 5k feel?

Based on your 5k time a 7k+ 30mins is definitely on the cards and I can see you breaking the 20min barrier for 5k which is a significant milestone in the not so distant future.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Today I was doing chest in the gym but now the erg is part of my warm-up and cool-down.

3 minutes as a warm-up and I did an easy 784m/1m54.8/18spm

After a suitably manly chest session - 50kg incline db's felt easy etc.:D I finished off with a gentle(ish):

3 x 1 minutes / rest 40 seconds:

1. 292m - 1m42.7/500m - 24spm
2. 300m - 1m40/500m - 24spm
3. 308m - 1m37.4/500m - 25spm

I find it funny how neat the splits are going up by 8m per interval - none of this is/was/or ever will be planned but it seems to happen a lot.

One thing - add up the intervals above and it should be 900m with a split of 1m40 average but the erg records 901m and a split of 1m39.8m - this links back to my post about accuracy - it's pretty close but on a 100m piece it'd be nice to see 15.99 instead of 16 etc.

Killme00

Between 2 and 3 minutes

It felt like i could do more, but i didnt want to speed up and blow up with 1000m to go so i just kept consistent. Arms were burning at 3000m, but lungs were never a problem throughout. Someone sat down on the rower beside me at about 3500m and the did a few mins at about 50spm, it was really distracting.

Now i just need to make each stroke even longer (ie pull harder) thus reducing my 1000m time and increasing my 30min distance.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

The results from Sunday are available here:
http://concept2.co.uk/nationals/results?race_name=irish

Killme00

Between 2 and 3 minutes

The Guvnor wrote: »

The results from Sunday are available here:
http://concept2.co.uk/nationals/results?race_name=irish

I used to train with Damian, he's a beast. Paul Buchanan's time is something else!

AntiVirus

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Killme00 wrote: »

It felt like i could do more, but i didnt want to speed up and blow up with 1000m to go so i just kept consistent. Arms were burning at 3000m, but lungs were never a problem throughout. Someone sat down on the rower beside me at about 3500m and the did a few mins at about 50spm, it was really distracting.

Now i just need to make each stroke even longer (ie pull harder) thus reducing my 1000m time and increasing my 30min distance.

I get a problem of my legs starting to burn. I think if you push harder with your legs you'll getting a better time than pulling harder with you arms.

Then again I've never done more than 3000 metres

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

I was reading a thread on the concept 2 forum.

The world record for 500m is 1m10.5 - now this was set way back in 1991.

Anyway the interesting thing - the Aussie Guy who set it Leo ? could hit 1m22 on his first stroke and be at 1m07 or so after 3 strokes.

Two things:

1. You will get a lower first stroke with less drag so 1 is better than 10 for this.
2. However your overall lowest split would be lower at 10 than at 1.

What does this mean?

Well - if we assume the speed of the flywheel is all important then perhaps the lower drag/level is what is important if you can maintain the speed of the flywheel.

Leo did all his work on the model B - a great machine and the one on which I did my 14.9s 100m.

He said that to do a fast 500m piece you needed to work at a drag above and below your race pace drag - this means doing intervals at 1 and taking the case off to get more drag on the flywheel for longer pieces.

Leo also had a 300kg deadlift and 7.6l vo2 max and an 87cm vertical jump at 6ft6 and was 102kg for the 500m world record -he said he was doing sets of 8 at 200kg for stiff legged deads!

Good news for those that are more power than cv - for a quick 500m piece don't overdo the long distance stuff and do 3 explosive sessions per week be it weights or erging.

There is a clip of Pudz doing a 1m18.2 in a comp and Svend Karlsen did a 1m16.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Killme00 wrote: »

It felt like i could do more, but i didnt want to speed up and blow up with 1000m to go so i just kept consistent. Arms were burning at 3000m, but lungs were never a problem throughout. Someone sat down on the rower beside me at about 3500m and the did a few mins at about 50spm, it was really distracting.

Now i just need to make each stroke even longer (ie pull harder) thus reducing my 1000m time and increasing my 30min distance.

Now try and relax your hands when next erging - extend the fingers on the recovery (bit going forward) - this helps to release the pressure in the forearms.

You want distracting my last 30min piece was done on the 12th and they had a re-run of the EMA's with Bieber and Gomez on the big screen a mere 4 ft away from me - the only saving grace was King of the Ging Shaemus on for a minute or two.

I'm sure my splits improved when Shaemus was on stage and suffered when Bieber arrived!:D

The fact that you were CV comfortable is great - the forearms can be rectified quite easily!

Hold the handle lightly and little finger over the ends of the handle.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

AntiVirus wrote: »

I get a problem of my legs starting to burn. I think if you push harder with your legs you'll getting a better time than pulling harder with you arms.

Then again I've never done more than 3000 metres

I see a 5000m or 30minute session in your future and the prediction is pain!:D

NB rate 26 or less.

Mellor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

The Guvnor wrote: »

Two things:

1. You will get a lower first stroke with less drag so 1 is better than 10 for this.
2. However your overall lowest split would be lower at 10 than at 1.

What does this mean?

The solution, have a mate adjust the drag.

First stroke at 6. 2nd at 8, 3rd at 10.
The exact numbers might need tweeking, but I'd say the prinipal is sound. It might not produces anythign of note, but its worth trying imo
Basically using a forms gears to get above the interia of the wheel

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Concept 2 banned this - some guy won a world indoor race and he started out at say 5/6 and when he was getting seriously tired he hit the damper down to 1 and got a second wind so to speak!:D

Just so you know - Leo is talking about intervals with a drag as low as 25!

He was doing crazy times 8 x 250m pieces with 5 minutes gentle rowing in between and his 250's were iirc all in the 35 second range!:eek:

His peak power on the model b concept 2 was 1416 watts!

Orla K

I did 1000m today, I was fairly tired starting it but I did it in about 6min. The machine ended on 1022m in 6:12. The spm was between 26-30, didn't see it going over 30 and I had a pretty steady 3:01 it seemed to be within 10sec of that. I'm happy enough with that, it was the last thing I did and I was barely able to cycle home, it was a wobbly crawl:o

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Well done Orla!
Excellent work getting the stroke rate nice and low!

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

A great resource with all the calculations you'd ever need for working out the theory of what you need to do to achieve that time etc.

http://www.machars.net/

Was doing start and 5 strokes at the end of my session today.

Highest wattage was 815w which equates to 1m15

Did a 26 second burn at the end as well - did 163m which equates to about 1m19.7/500m pace.

Obviously the faster you can get down to the low splits the better.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Other things you can try is:

Start and 5 strokes and measure max wattage which will usually be the 5th stroke!

100m as fast as possible.

250m burn - a nice workout to get the speed necessary for a fast 500m!

Jak

Less than 2 minutes

Well still carrying a forearm (and now shoulder issue) but they are more annoyances than anything and not really affecting rowing. Anyway as I wanted to limit weights for a few weeks I did a core and row sprint session today.

Changes were to start away from wheel (this works well for getting to low splits), and also rating higher.

Opened with 3 x 100m at 10 warm ups - roughly 1.35s

4th: 16.0 - low pull 1.13 which was good
5th: 16.0 - similar
6th: 16.1 - low pull 1.14 should have gone under 16, but struggling to get timing right on short strokes.
7th: 16.3 - Should have gone under 16, but fkin right foot strap broke

*Change Machine*

8th: 16.5 - Getting tired...
9th 16.5 - Time to stop...

Anyway what have I learned ....


1. Start pull a bit away from flywheel to get to sub 1.20s quick
2. Putting a pair of 20kg plates on the front does not stop C2 moving
3. The timing, pacing, form for 100m are very different to any erging I have done in that past, and will need a fair bit of practice.
4. Maybe mixing 10x100m sprints into a session with core is not a bad session
5. There is only one machine in the gym that i trust to use anymore

JAK

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Why did you change machine?

OK - just read that the foot strap broke!

I shouldn't laugh but I can imagine you were getting just a touch fired up at this stage! LOL

I'll bet the 16 seconds dead are getting annoying?:)

I was doing my start and 5's yesterday at level 8.

Start - be halfway up the slide, drive as hard as possible but come back in fast and then fast again and then lengthen just a bit.

I think if you can see 1m13 then you should be there. One thing I was thinking of was about making sure (not sure how) to finish the piece on a stroke.

^ Two options your final stroke sends the screen to 0m or your final stroke leaves 5m left and it goes to 0m as you come up for your next stroke.

I reckon this alone will take .2second off your time.

1m13 is according to the calculator site - 900 watts.

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

One other thing that I saw on the pics:

Both pieces were 16 seconds dead but one finished on 1m14 and the other 1m20 and both said the average 500m was 1m20.9.

I think you can definitely get under the 16 - one thing to try would be to see what time you do for say 150m.

The slightly longer piece will see if the start is what is screwing the time or is your power dropping off during the 100m piece?

Just remembered that yesterday as I said I did a third of a 500m piece roughly and I did 163m in the 26 seconds.

I set the paceboat to 600 watts and beat it as I was over 700 all the time and the average pace was 1m19.75 which would have been a 15.95s 100m.

However did I slow down or get faster over the length of the piece - I don't know?

I'll do some 100m pieces this week and see what gives!

Next time use the watts function not the metres and set the paceboat to say 700 watts and you will surprise yourself!

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

Today I did the erg again.

3 Minute Warm-Up was 809m

4 x 1000m with 3m40 rest

1. 3m32.9 // Level 5
2. 3m26.0 // Level 4
3. 3m31.9 // Level 6
4. 3m30.4 // Level 4.5

I was using the watts and aim was minimum over 270w which is 1m49.

Average for all 4 pieces was 301 watts and 22spm and 3m30.2 - not bad considering I was debating whether or not to do them as I was a bit tired! I did however tell myself to cop on and get on with it!:D

Then I did 3 x 200m pieces with 1 minute rest:

1. 36.5
2. 36.2
3. 36.3

These were all at level 5 iirc and equals just over 1m30 pace - once again I was on watts! 450ish.

3 minute cool down at the end was 765m.

Paul91

Less than 2 minutes

Killme00 wrote: »

The Guvnor wrote: »

The results from Sunday are available here:
http://concept2.co.uk/nationals/results?race_name=irish

I used to train with Damian, he's a beast. Paul Buchanan's time is something else!

I met Damian on Sunday - huge potential and will go far

I manage 6:11.8 for the 2k - slower than I wanted - but happy with Gold - the link below is a vid of my race - note my technique is awful - the guy to the left (Ryan) is very good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhH3NdsHeOM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Lapsed Catholic

Hi, just saw this thread today.

I'm a 46 year old ex rugby player and started to use an erg (concept 2) recently to lose weight and get fit.

I usually do a 30 min session 3 - 4 times per week. My usual is 7km at a time of between 30m 27s and 30m 52s depending on how tired I feel. My SPM is usually mid 20s, 24 - 27. My split times average about 2.12 for 500m.

I feel good after the workout, when I can walk and talk. Am I doing ok and can I improve?

Thanks

The Guvnor

Between 2 and 3 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhH3NdsHeOM

Ryan obviously rows for Neptune hence the good technique.

Your technique is not awful but it is not textbook either.

One thing which stands out a mile is you break your legs before your hands are over the knees.

This forces you to lift your arms to clear the knees - for the erg this is just inefficeint but on the water if you did this you would bury the oars into the water on the way forward to your next stroke.

So the stroke even on the machine is:

1. Drive with the legs
2. Finish with the arms
3. Down and away which means arms move down.
4. Hands over knees then move forward.

Your times are excellent mate but you might not be getting as much rest between strokes as you could etc.

The one caveat is that if you change technique and times suffer go back to what works!

You set the 3 fastest time of the day?