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Why do you think the league of Ireland declined in popularity ?
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Gavin shels wrote: »
Kilkenny never were going to stay afloat, I remember my first trip down there in 2007 and we were driving down, asked a bunch of kids in football jerseys and kicking football where Buckley Park was, they'd never even heard of it, sums up why Kilkenny died.
Outside of Tallaght and Cabra most Dublin kids wouldnt know where their nearest team plays. Fcuk I remember asking my dad when I was about 11 why werent there such a thing as Irish clubs (told me he went a bit in they heyday but the standard just became too sh1te by the 80s). They dont promote themselves. On the flipside fans do put more importance on the national team than probably most countries, which is a good thing (per head of population we had one of the highest average turnouits worldwide for the WC qualifiers). Arent too many other countries that can get 1% of their population into a stadium to watch us whacking Andorra or the like
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I'm not sure the bad facilities and management can be totally blamed. The LOI was in very rude health (attendance-wise) - despite the shit facilities - before the advent of televised English football here. Also pivotal was LOI teams meeting big teams in Europe, for example, United and Rovers in the European Cup (where Rovers were wellied over here) and Irish people being exposed to a higher level of football on their doorstep and also the weirdly/close cultural relationship and exchange between our two countries.
A lot of blame has to be squarely laid at the foot of the clubs and authorities though for not building facilities here when the league was flourishing. I think the poor facilities and management are to blame for Ireland not having a local football situation like Scotland and England though: for example, in places in England that fall equally under the gravitational pull of your Liverpools and Uniteds, you still have loads of support for the big clubs but smaller football teams still have far better support and facilities despite not being much better than LOI standard-wise. As somebody pointed out here before, LOI probably offers the best level of football in Europe for the amount of people that actually attend.
Also as pointed out earlier in the thread: TV viewing - especially in the undoubtedly enjoyable social/pub context and in tandem with the prohibitive cost of attending big games with your kids - is becoming the de-facto ways to view the very top-level of football. I think it's a generational sea-change. I like watching TV football but nothing can compare for me to live football: the camaraderie of the terrace and the social aspect but more and more people purely watch football on the box and obviously the LOI is going to suffer because of that.Father Damo wrote: »Fcuk I remember asking my dad when I was about 11 why werent there such a thing as Irish clubs (told me he went a bit in they heyday but the standard just became too sh1te by the 80s).
The standard was arguably at one of its highest points then. My first LOI game was in 1986(I think) - a friendly where Rovers beat United and I remember Atkinson buying Liam O Brien from Rovers around that time. Not sure you'd see that nowadays. The 'quality' argument is also pretty bogus considering the style of the English game (and the facilities) in the 80s. That said, I think people here often confuse quality and shite football. LOI teams are not better than EPL or Championship teams but it doesn't mean they play bad football. 0 -
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Again, have you been to a game or even watch a game? Watched MNS even?
What constitutes good football? Clearly the likes of Barcelona or Arsenal play at a different level but is Scunthorpe and Doncaster considered attractive football given they play in the same league as your chosen club?
Good gravy! Poor Scrunthorpe get mentioned more than any other English clubs in these LOI threads. It's like the LOI rallying cry: "but Scrunthorpe, but Scrunthorpe!!"
First off, Scrunthorpe would skull **** the LOI, and walk away with it at a canter given their current squad. Many won't like that, but it's the truth. Moreover, Leeds play in a league with Sheffield Utd, Leicester, Nottingham Forest, Reading, Norwich, Coventry City, Ipswich, Cardiff, Swansea, Derby, QPR, Middlesborough, Hull, etc, etc...
Then in the next tier down there are clubs like Southampton, Charlton, Sheffield Wednesday and Huddersfield.
These are quite simply better supported leagues, with bigger clubs with bigger budgets and a much higher mean quality of football than has ever been sustained in the LOI.Why fight it? The standard is awful. It is league 2 standard at the very best, while Division 1 is not even conference level for the most part.
I say all this as someone who renewed his season ticket for CCFC today as well.
Like you, I'll be a regular at UCD home games this year (watching a lot more losses than wins no doubt
), and I can't understand the need to fight the good fight on this forum all the time. 0 -
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Look, the thing is most football fans aren't real football junkies. I have some friends who are ardent Utd / Liverpool fans or whatever, but they've never pushed themselves to play football consistently and struggle to get out and watch their mates playing their important park football matches a couple of times a season.
I love going to watch friends of mine playing UCFL on a Saturday afternoon - a mate of mine coaches some Cherry Orchard youth teams so I might head and watch a game of that on a Saturday morning; when it comes to football on TV I watch a lot more than simply the premiership (because you can do that with the likes of ESPN showing Seria A, Bundesliga, Dutch League and Russian Leagues); so when I live a short walk from UCD obviously I will stroll down and watch them playing at home on a Friday night.
But I'm utterly consumed by football, I admit it. I spend far too much of my life in general watching sport of all types. What you people need to start accepting is that most people who like football aren't:
A) Football addicts, i.e. obsessed with football on a simple level;
In need of a sense of community or belonging that a lot of you guys hold dear from supporting your LOI team;
Most people who like football spend no more than a few hours a week actually watching it. Their lives are filled with other things, and supporting a premiership club through their TV is just another entertainment commodity for them. They are lost causes as far as the LOI is concerned.
What the LOI should be concentrating on is survival and living within its means, and turning its attention to youth setups. Of the top 10 or so Dublin Schoolboy programs, only two are LOI (Rovers and Shels). Get the strongest youth setups and you'll have the best youth players at your clubs from an early age. More than that, you'll have hundreds of kids and their extended families feeling a connection to LOI senior teams from an early age. And eventually tens of kids a year who consider their club to be the LOI club that they played for all the way through their youth.0 -
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LuckyLloyd wrote: »Look, the thing is most football fans aren't real football junkies. I have some friends who are ardent Utd / Liverpool fans or whatever, but they've never pushed themselves to play football consistently and struggle to get out and watch their mates playing their important park football matches a couple of times a season.
I love going to watch friends of mine playing UCFL on a Saturday afternoon - a mate of mine coaches some Cherry Orchard youth teams so I might head and watch a game of that on a Saturday morning; when it comes to football on TV I watch a lot more than simply the premiership (because you can do that with the likes of ESPN showing Seria A, Bundesliga, Dutch League and Russian Leagues); so when I live a short walk from UCD obviously I will stroll down and watch them playing at home on a Friday night.
But I'm utterly consumed by football, I admit it. I spend far too much of my life in general watching sport of all types. What you people need to start accepting is that most people who like football aren't:
A) Football addicts, i.e. obsessed with football on a simple level; In need of a sense of community or belonging that a lot of you guys hold dear from supporting your LOI team;
Most people who like football spend no more than a few hours a week actually watching it. Their lives are filled with other things, and supporting a premiership club through their TV is just another entertainment commodity for them. They are lost causes as far as the LOI is concerned.
What the LOI should be concentrating on is survival and living within its means, and turning its attention to youth setups. Of the top 10 or so Dublin Schoolboy programs, only two are LOI (Rovers and Shels). Get the strongest youth setups and you'll have the best youth players at your clubs from an early age. More than that, you'll have hundreds of kids and their extended families feeling a connection to LOI senior teams from an early age. And eventually tens of kids a year who consider their club to be the LOI club that they played for all the way through their youth.
pretty much spot on LL
life gets in the way for most people. Jesus even for just watching football on TV nowadays I find I don't watch half as much as I used to. I'm not as obsessed as yourself, but I'm not that far off. I've noticed that with friends a lot, people who call themselves football fans, and in fairness they are, but its on a relatively shallow level. They aren't particularly interested in the detail, or appreciate some of the German performances in the WC, but rant and rave about Barca or the latest "wunderkid", or will claim that this is better than that without actually having any notion of the stats.
I didn't grow up down here, so tbh I've no affinity for any of the LOI clubs, hasn't stopped me going to a few games every season though. Nothing beats going to a game with a few mates. Having a pint or two after and then a big durty burger on the way home in my book. Whether the game is played on the pitches in Swords between the under 10s or Dalyer or Anfield I've always enjoyed the social aspect nearly as much as the football. That goes for barstooling as well.
One thing I think has a lot to do with it though, is how you are brought up and your parental influence. My dad has no more interest in sports, and actually none of the rest of my brothers/sisters have more than a passing interest in anything sporty. He had no team, so therefore none was passed onto me. Round that time as young kid, King Kenny, was knocking them in so i picked Liverpool and so began the relationship. It was despite the lack of parental input that I grew to love sports. These generation things in sports play a huge role, and I'd say we're seeing the impact of the 80's on attendances today.0 -
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