Solicitor cost good or bad????

Munster_Munch

Hi,

Just got a bill\quote from family solicitor for €2,900, this covers site transfer to my name and the mortgage stage payments.

Is this expensive or good value???
What should I be looking to pay?

I was thinking about the 2000 mark would be about right.

What are your thought?

mmc2010

I was originally quoted 1900e for the same service about 6mths ago. My husband recently reverted to same solicitor and has now been quoted 1000e for same service. Granted he did some serious haggling!

muffler

If the conveyancing was straight forward then the fee quoted is waaaay over the top.

Munster_Munch

The conveyancing, i'd say it couldn't be any more simple and straight forward.
Looks like some serious haggling to be done.

Thanks for the replies.

bikerboy_ie

We €1400 for same services a few months ago.

Leaving2010

Hi just wondering does anyone know how long it would take to transfer a site into your name from your parent and is the transfer cost all you have to pay (capital gains tax /stamp duty fees?) ..I know there was something in budget 2011 but i don't understand it, any help would be really appreciated.

uptowngirly

Leaving2010 - make sure that the site is no bigger than 1 acre and then the transfer from a parent to a child of the site is not liable for capital gains tax.
(I'm open to correction but I think that the 1 acre rule does not include the size of the house you intend to build - so if you're building a 250sqm house and one acre is 4046.82sqm, the entire size of the site that a parent can transfer to a child to build a house on is 4296.82sqm without incurring tax implications.)

Here's the important bit from revenue.ie

Section 83A of the Stamp Duty Consolidation Act 1999 provides for an exemption from stamp duty on the transfer of a site from a parent to a child for the purposes of that child building his/her principal place of residence.
Transfer of Site to Child Section 83A of the Stamp Duty Consolidation Act 1999 provides for an exemption from stamp duty on the transfer of a site from a parent to a child for the purposes of that child building his/her principal place of residence. The site must be less than .4047 hectare (1 acre), exclusive of the area occupied by the house itself, and the value of the site must not exceed €500,000



You will obviously need to pay the solicitor fees for the transfer of the land though - these vary between 1000 - 2000 euro afaik.

I'm sure you know this already - but just in case - there is no need to transfer the site from the parent to the child for the purpose of applying for planning permission. All that is needed to apply for planning permission is a letter from the owner of the land (it's not technically a site until there is pp ) giving you permission to apply for planning permission!

Hope that helps

JuniorB

what uptowngirly said was before the budget. from dec 7th or so the exemption for parent to child site transfer was removed. all transfers now up to half a million or so is 1%. 1 acre site restriction not in place anymore then either.
computer acting up so can't post links. goggle 'budget 2010 stamp duty' and there'll be loads of info.
ref timelines .... we're in house 2 months, site transfer started 16 months ago, actually signed the final form today!! could be done in a few weeks i'd guess but solicitors are generally very slow

uptowngirly

Ah flip JuniorB - we haven't transferred the site yet as we are just applying for PP and was full sure that all was ok after the budget as it's still on the revenue.ie website. :eek::eek:

Thanks for the info though - at least we can be a bit prepared! (and we don't need to stick to an acre - that's super news!)

uptowngirly

JuniorB - any idea on who values the site?

Just thinking that it would be much cheaper to have the land transferred pre-planning as a site with planning permission is worth more surely?

Any ideas?

muffler

uptowngirly wrote: »

any idea on who values the site?

A valuer - seriously though it is a valuer. Most auctioneers are recognised valuers for this purpose and generally speaking they have a minimum and maximum value they can apply to the site. In your case it is obviously the minimum you will be looking for.

uptowngirly wrote: »

Just thinking that it would be much cheaper to have the land transferred pre-planning as a site with planning permission is worth more surely?

Im not aware of the precise changes imposed in the budget but in theory you are correct in saying that the site will be more valuable with permission. As with most rural sites there will most likely be restrictions in relation to the occupancy of any house built on the site and that in turn reduces the value a bit.

Just bear in mind that if you transfer the site before applying for planning and end up getting refused then you are out a good bit of money in legal fees (and CGT if applicable) for a piece of ground that is of no use to you then.

Talk to the local auctioneer first as they will be aware of all the tax implications also.

JuniorB

At the end of the day it's only 1% - so for most sites in the 30-50k bracket you're talking €300/500 -not a huge amount in the whole scheme of things. Better to go the traditional route and get the planning etc sorted first.
Not being restricted to the 1 acre max is a big bonus - esp when you have a long driveway like we have that takes up half an acre!
Best of luck anyway. Talk to your solicitor for the official version of all this. Let them earn their big fee !

mmc2010

Hi there, just wondering if the CGT postings are correct. I was under the impression that the 1 acre limit was still in place after the budget. Actually a solicitor told me last week that it was. Am abit confused about the stamp duty side of it too. I was under the impression that all stamp duty was being charged at 1%, but the solicitor told me that this was only on residences, not land. Property being transferred is at a higher rate. She is verifying her info and reverting.
Does anybody have a definitive answer to this?

JuniorB

Tis a bit confusing alright. That's what the solicitor is paid for so they will give you the 'definitive answer'

From here .....http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/buying_a_home/stamp_duty.html


Looks like stamp duty on sites depends on the value and is as follows:
Non-residential property

Rates of stamp duty on land/housing sites without residential buildings have not changed:

Property value Rate
Up to €10,000 Exempt
€10,001 - €20,000 1%
€20,001 - €30,000 2%
€30,001 - €40,000 3%
€40,001 - €70,000 4%
€70,001 - €80,000 5%
Over €80,000 6%


As ever open to correction on this..

Macker91

Hi All

Am in the same boat am buying a house and solicitor is related to me - I have asked for cost and have been told to allow a total of 3K and I should get change !!

Purchase price of the house is under 300K and should be very straight forward as no house to sell.

I have found the following on a solicitors website as approximate calculation of costs

Land Reg fees 500
Search fees 150
Commissioner fees 40
Given that this totals €690 am I missing someing big or can I expect over 2K for professional fees - seem extremely high

Any advice would be great please ?

Thanks

martinn123

Macker91 wrote: »

Hi All

Am in the same boat am buying a house and solicitor is related to me - I have asked for cost and have been told to allow a total of 3K and I should get change !!

Purchase price of the house is under 300K and should be very straight forward as no house to sell.

I have found the following on a solicitors website as approximate calculation of costs

Land Reg fees 500
Search fees 150
Commissioner fees 40
Given that this totals €690 am I missing someing big or can I expect over 2K for professional fees - seem extremely high

Any advice would be great please ?

Thanks

During the Tiger Years, the one body who probably did so well, were the legal profession due to their habit of charging fees on a percentage basis. There is little difference in conveyancing a house at 300K or 600K but they will seek a higher fee. I suggest agreeing a flat fee for the transaction, and while you are at it get your will's done for free at the same time.

Macker91

martinn123 wrote: »

During the Tiger Years, the one body who probably did so well, were the legal profession due to their habit of charging fees on a percentage basis. There is little difference in conveyancing a house at 300K or 600K but they will seek a higher fee. I suggest agreeing a flat fee for the transaction, and while you are at it get your will's done for free at the same time.

Thanks for your quick response - I have asked for a price from solicitor and was told couldnt put a figure on it but to allow 3k to be safe and i should get change - good point about the will's will definately mention this.

martinn123

Macker91 wrote: »

Thanks for your quick response - I have asked for a price from solicitor and was told couldnt put a figure on it but to allow 3k to be safe and i should get change - good point about the will's will definately mention this.

Can't understand why a cost cannot be arrived at, you have listed the fixed costs, only variable is the Professional Fee, dont forget the VAT at 21% on the Fee.

Macker91

martinn123 wrote: »

Can't understand why a cost cannot be arrived at, you have listed the fixed costs, only variable is the Professional Fee, dont forget the VAT at 21% on the Fee.

Cant understand myself and thats what is worrying me - its very hard to question fees after the event particulary when solicitor is related, and yet my gut feeling is that I am going to be ripped off here.

Even allowing for VAT @ 21% to get 500 change (which I dont think I will get) the fee would be 1500 which seems to be way higher that I would have thought. I have seen numerous adverts on the web ranging from 799 - 999 plus outlay.

martinn123

Macker91 wrote: »

Cant understand myself and thats what is worrying me - its very hard to question fees after the event particulary when solicitor is related, and yet my gut feeling is that I am going to be ripped off here.

Even allowing for VAT @ 21% to get 500 change (which I dont think I will get) the fee would be 1500 which seems to be way higher that I would have thought. I have seen numerous adverts on the web ranging from 799 - 999 plus outlay.

Well, now that the tiger is dead, many solicitors have realised that they can no longer charge percentage fees, hence the adds you see for conveyance at 799-999 ( excluding VAT ), plus outlay.

Suppose it comes down to how close a relation of yours this solicitor is, I would pick up the phone and ask for a figure, it's too late when they give you a cheque for the '' change'' and the fees have been deducted.

Macker91

martinn123 wrote: »

Well, now that the tiger is dead, many solicitors have realised that they can no longer charge percentage fees, hence the adds you see for conveyance at 799-999 ( excluding VAT ), plus outlay.

Suppose it comes down to how close a relation of yours this solicitor is, I would pick up the phone and ask for a figure, it's too late when they give you a cheque for the '' change'' and the fees have been deducted.

Thanks for your reply - Unfortunately, I feel the relationship its close enough that if I didn't use them would probably cause bad feeling anyway given the current climate and the amount of business out there.

I will be giving a cheque after I receive the bill so they wont be able to deduct anything until I see a full breakdown. Hopefully I am wrong on this and that I wont be ripped off but will see - I will know one way or the other in a few weeks.

martinn123

Macker91 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply - Unfortunately, I feel the relationship its close enough that if I didn't use them would probably cause bad feeling anyway given the current climate and the amount of business out there.

I will be giving a cheque after I receive the bill so they wont be able to deduct anything until I see a full breakdown. Hopefully I am wrong on this and that I wont be ripped off but will see - I will know one way or the other in a few weeks.

Maybe/ maybe not. Depends on how the purchase is being funded.
You mentioned 300K purchase price, so if you have paid 75K deposit and mortgage ( if any ) is 225K then you would expect a bill to be presented for your consideration. If however the deposit and mortgage added together means the solicitor has some funds left over, then costs/fees will be deducted from that.
When you mentioned '' change '' I assumed the solicitor would have excess funds, if I am incorrect, you can peruse bill before paying, if not you can't. Or you may get a call a few days before closing asking for the 3K as outlay will have to be paid on the day.......cunning lot these solicitors........good luck with the new house........keep us informed;)

muffler

Macker91 wrote: »

Land Reg fees 500
Search fees 150
Commissioner fees 40
Given that this totals €690 am I missing someing big or can I expect over 2K for professional fees - seem extremely high

If its a reasonably straight forward job then the quoted fee is on the high side. Being a relation isn't obviously getting you any discounts and you are just another customer at the end of the day. That being the case then you should adopt the same stance and ring round a couple of other solicitor for quotes and I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised.

The solicitors are now obliged to give you, upon request, a detailed estimate of fees prior to commencing any work on your behalf.

Macker91

martinn123 wrote: »

Maybe/ maybe not. Depends on how the purchase is being funded.
You mentioned 300K purchase price, so if you have paid 75K deposit and mortgage ( if any ) is 225K then you would expect a bill to be presented for your consideration. If however the deposit and mortgage added together means the solicitor has some funds left over, then costs/fees will be deducted from that.
When you mentioned '' change '' I assumed the solicitor would have excess funds, if I am incorrect, you can peruse bill before paying, if not you can't. Or you may get a call a few days before closing asking for the 3K as outlay will have to be paid on the day.......cunning lot these solicitors........good luck with the new house........keep us informed

I have not paid anything to solicitor yet and intend on money paid been deposit plus mortgage to equal purchase price in order to ensure a bill is given to me. Hopefully it will work out that way anyway - thanks again and will keep you informed

Macker91

muffler wrote: »

If its a reasonably straight forward job then the quoted fee is on the high side. Being a relation isn't obviously getting you any discounts and you are just another customer at the end of the day. That being the case then you should adopt the same stance and ring round a couple of other solicitor for quotes and I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised.

The solicitors are now obliged to give you, upon request, a detailed estimate of fees prior to commencing any work on your behalf.

You are probably right I am probably just another customer at the end of the day and not getting any discounts . I didnt realise solicitors are obliged to give a detailed estimate - good idea will ring around and get a few quotes, at least when I am given the bill I will have something to compare it to. Thank you

muffler

Macker91 wrote: »

You are probably right I am probably just another customer at the end of the day and not getting any discounts . I didnt realise solicitors are obliged to give a detailed estimate - good idea will ring around and get a few quotes, at least when I am given the bill I will have something to compare it to. Thank you

I was actually suggesting that you get other quotes with a view to engaging a different solicitor.

Just as an example - you get another quote for €2200 but you still retain your relation who at the end of the day gives you €100 "change" from €3000 thereby fulfilling their commitment. You have then paid €700 more and lets face it there's going to be a falling out of some sort. No doubt your relation will be in a position to blind you with legal jargon and point out that the other quotes didn't include this, that and the other.

If I went to your relation and asked for a breakdown of costs in advance Im sure I would get it. If I didnt Id be off to other solicitors like a shot. So why is this relation so determined not to give you the estimate of costs now when he/she is most likely doing this for other clients?

Im not a solicitor but Im fairly sure that they (solicitors) have been instructed by their governing body, the Incorporated Law Society of Ireland, to issue detailed breakdown of estimated costs in advance. Someone else may be able to confirm this or indeed you could ask this question in the Legal Discussion forum.

In any event it's your call so I'll wish you well with it.