Aerlingus Cabin Crew want the best of both worlds

SIX PACK

I was meant to fly with AerLingus today but flight is cancelled, Why the hell cant the Airline operate & replace the crew with emergency staff so the customers can get to & from their destination, Im so angry Knew i should of flew Ryanair

outandabout

I know someone who works in the company (not cabin crew) who says the company are reneging on a deal already agreed.

There's fault on both sides here but unfortunately there's nobody who seems able to sort it out.

It would be good if we had a Taoiseach or government to resolve this mess, but unfortunately that's too much to ask for.

jdivision

The airline has hired in some replacement planes just not enough

SIX PACK

Does anyone know if the Pilots are on Strike ? Also how come we never hear of Ryanair staff going on Strike

jdivision

Because they're not unionised and are incentivised to meet certain goals. Less than 70 staff are causing all the disruption at AL

FlutterinBantam

outandabout wrote: »

I know someone who works in the company (not cabin crew) who says the company are reneging on a deal already agreed.

There's fault on both sides here but unfortunately there's nobody who seems able to sort it out.

It would be good if we had a Taoiseach or government to resolve this mess, but unfortunately that's too much to ask for.

You shouldn't need the Prime Minister of a country to sort this stuff out.


That's what happened in the past and one of the reasons EI is in the mess it is.

twowheelsonly

There's two sides to every coin but my tuppence worth...

I was speaking to a guy last night- his Mrs was one of four suspended on monday or tuesday for refusing to 'Act-Up' as a Cabin Manager in the absence of anybody of that grade being available for a transatlantic flight. She is a senior cabin crew member but is not trained as a Cabin Manager. (AFAIK Cabin Managers are the only cabin staff trained in the use of defibrillators amongst other things). As 4 of them refused to do it they were all suspended on the spot.
What's the problem????
Aer Lingus had already cancelled that flight and had brought in a Monarch Airline plane and crew to manage it. IMO they were putting the gun to their heads over a non existent situation in that instance.
Also heard of a couple of staff being suspended for taking a meal break during an 11 hr shift.

daithi2011

I heard a few stories from some a couple of the staff too. They are being bullied.

Are these staff on their own against the company?
How come the union isnt getting all the other members to support them. Isnt that the point of a union.

FlutterinBantam

daithi2011 wrote: »

I heard a few stories from some a couple of the staff too. They are being bullied.

Are these staff on their own against the company?
How come the union isnt getting all the other members to support them. Isnt that the point of a union.

:rolleyes:

They are hardly going to say they are in the wrong are they?

Strikes me a strange that the country is in an unemployment crisis and the only unrest of any consequence is Aer Lingus. As has been the case for the last decade.

Company are dead right to say enough of the endless talks and negotiations.

Do the job or get the fcuk out and let others do it.

There would be plenty of takers.

Joey the lips

I love the work class attitude that exists in this country.

f@ck your strike if i cannot get to where i want

It explains why

We have unions with no power.

People on crap wages.

a goverment who plays golf with manageing directors rather than look after us

Ryanair are very unethical in this dispute imo. They have given aer lingus plays at below market rate and these are most likely staffed by people who are more delighted they are in a plane than in there own country.

I just wish for once we could all sit down and look at these situtations and realise that while is making our travel plans difficult

It has the real effect of totally screwing up our kids chances of decent employment as it will become the standard in jobs.

But not to worry you can get where your going so screw everyone else i imagine.

oh well

OutlawPete

Joey the lips wrote: »

I love the work class attitude that exists in this country.

f@ck your strike if i cannot get to where i want

It explains why

We have unions with no power.

People on crap wages.

a goverment who plays golf with manageing directors rather than look after us

Ryanair are very unethical in this dispute imo. They have given aer lingus plays at below market rate and these are most likely staffed by people who are more delighted they are in a plane than in there own country.

I just wish for once we could all sit down and look at these situtations and realise that while is making our travel plans difficult

It has the real effect of totally screwing up our kids chances of decent employment as it will become the standard in jobs.

But not to worry you can get where your going so screw everyone else i imagine.

oh well

Well said.

This country has become a nation of people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

FreudianSlippers

EI cabin crew are being spoilt brats. The arbitration has concluded and an agreement was reached.
The working terms and conditions are very fair and in line with industry standards.

Now the unions (the biggest hypocritical bullies in this country - and up there with bankers and developers for the troubles) are attempting to rely on a loophole in the wording for implementation of the decision in the arbitration to get their own way.

This is one of the main reasons why I'm dreading a large Labour presence in any new government. This type of bullyboy tactics is wrong.

MarkR

I don't see how this can be the cause of a seemingly corrupt government.

A lot of this seems to be about a sense of entitlement that the unions seem to have. The staff are on the tv saying that all they want to do is work, and what can they do? They can work, that's what they can do.

If I'm in work, and am asked to do something, and I can do it, I will. Next week I'll be travelling all over the country. I can guarantee I'll be home late for a couple of those days. Not going to tell the boss I won't go because I won't be home at my normal time. I'll do the job because my contract does mention reasonable flexibility in my work time arrangements.

I doubt that the staff were sacked for going to dinner. I would guess ( and I may well be wrong) that they wanted it at a particular time or place. Or with a certain desert.

If you have a job, you should do it to the best of your ability.

I think it is bad form on Aer Lingus to be forcing the issue as they seem to be, and they should certainly have a back up for any flights they suspect will not be able to fly.

Ryanair are probably delighted with this. Surely shares in Aer Lingus will be affected by this. Only a matter of time before we have another take over bid. Then if that does go through, the pay and conditions will be way worse for the Aer Lingus staff.

syklops

Joey the lips wrote: »

I love the work class attitude that exists in this country.

f@ck your strike if i cannot get to where i want

It explains why

We have unions with no power.

People on crap wages.

a goverment who plays golf with manageing directors rather than look after us

Ryanair are very unethical in this dispute imo. They have given aer lingus plays at below market rate and these are most likely staffed by people who are more delighted they are in a plane than in there own country.

I just wish for once we could all sit down and look at these situtations and realise that while is making our travel plans difficult

It has the real effect of totally screwing up our kids chances of decent employment as it will become the standard in jobs.

But not to worry you can get where your going so screw everyone else i imagine.

oh well

Utter rubbish.

Since when do our unions have no power? Flights are being cancelled across Europe because 4 cabin crew members had a tantrum. Sounds pretty powerful to me.

Crap wages? Who is on crap wages? AL cabin crew? I think you will find they are on pretty decent wages, in fairly secure jobs, with a decent pension, all negotiated by their 'powerless' union.


I don't understand your Ryanair comments can you explain further?

FlutterinBantam

Joey the lips wrote: »

I love the work class attitude that exists in this country.

f@ck your strike if i cannot get to where i want

It explains why

We have unions with no power.

People on crap wages.

a goverment who plays golf with manageing directors rather than look after us

Ryanair are very unethical in this dispute imo. They have given aer lingus plays at below market rate and these are most likely staffed by people who are more delighted they are in a plane than in there own country.

I just wish for once we could all sit down and look at these situtations and realise that while is making our travel plans difficult

It has the real effect of totally screwing up our kids chances of decent employment as it will become the standard in jobs.

But not to worry you can get where your going so screw everyone else i imagine.

oh well

Load of socialist codswallop.

Best way to ensure our kids have decent employment is to get off our arses and work to earn revenue.

Not hide behind a group of misguided idiots who think the world owes us a living.

bonerm

OutlawPete wrote: »

This country has become a nation of people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

That's a Wilde accusation.

sellerbarry

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Load of socialist codswallop.

Best way to ensure our kids have decent employment is to get off our arses and work to earn revenue.

Not hide behind a group of misguided idiots who think the world owes us a living.

Couldn't have said it better myself........................;)

amiable

IMHO unions can be very dangerous as i've seen more than one company effectively closed because of the unions reluctance to compromise any bit. Everybody lost out in the end except the actual union as they still had their cushy jobs

eoinbn

Unions and AerLingus agree the Greenfield deal. As part of that the staff agree to fly 850 hours a year. Company draws up new rosters that have staff flying 850 and some of the cabin crew strike as they claim they haven't voted on it.

Missed anything?

phill106

Heard on some form of radio show last night that unions were lodging numerous claims of sexual discrimination due to roster changes impacting on family life. Calling it sexual discrimation is the lowest of the low if that is the case, what has it got to do with that? Do the roster changes not affect the male stewards?

outandabout

The sexual discrimination claim seems like a stunt to me. Why wasn't it raised as an issue when the rosters were originally being drawn up?

u140acro3xs7dm

phill106 wrote: »

Heard on some form of radio show last night that unions were lodging numerous claims of sexual discrimination due to roster changes impacting on family life. Calling it sexual discrimation is the lowest of the low if that is the case, what has it got to do with that? Do the roster changes not affect the male stewards?

So is this because the wimmins have to do more hours than men? or do they want to do less hours than the men?

If they want to do less hours than men surely that is sexual discrimination towards men.

They should be doing the same hours otherwise it could be sexual discrimination one way or another.

Joey the lips

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Load of socialist codswallop.

Best way to ensure our kids have decent employment is to get off our arses and work to earn revenue.

Not hide behind a group of misguided idiots who think the world owes us a living.

Interesting.... That will explain the difference in wages between terminal 1 and 2 in the airport i imagine...... Not

The fact of the matter is we are being screwed because we are not standing up for our rights...

Although you tar it with socialist nonsense...I see it as capitalist reality...

God help your kids....granted they prob will be in canada.

phill106

Felix Many Drizzle wrote: »

So is this because the wimmins have to do more hours than men? or do they want to do less hours than the men?

If they want to do less hours than men surely that is sexual discrimination towards men.

They should be doing the same hours otherwise it could be sexual discrimination one way or another.

My point exactly, unless the rule specifically says, OI! WOMEN! YOU DO THIS!
Lads? Ah sure your grand, keep on as you were, it is blatant discrimination claiming that woman have more rights.

u140acro3xs7dm

phill106 wrote: »

My point exactly, unless the rule specifically says, OI! WOMEN! YOU DO THIS!
Lads? Ah sure your grand, keep on as you were, it is blatant discrimination claiming that woman have more rights.

its only an hour a week too, 12 mins a day if they do a 5 day week, how can this effect family life so bad

jimmmy

The Aer Lingus cabin crew should be glad to have a job. I would give my right arm to have the half the salary, security, travel opportunities, perks, and pension they do. Wish they would wake up as they are doing great damage to the image of the country as a place to do business in.

OutlawPete

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Load of socialist codswallop.

Best way to ensure our kids have decent employment is to get off our arses and work to earn revenue.

Not hide behind a group of misguided idiots who think the world owes us a living.

Quite a sweeping statement and if all unions did was act like the world owed them a living, their members would not tolerate it.

Why would they? For one - it would get them nowhere in the longrun.

Also, someone doesn't have to be a socialist to see the value in unions. It has become fashionable to deride them in this day an age, for whatever reason I don't know. You seem to be blind to how destructive capitalism would be without them.

I'm not saying that they can be whiter than snow and are always acting from a position of genuine grievance, but without them this country would go to shit if it hasn't already that is.

Unions are (or should be) just there to balance the power that management has over them. The potential for abuse of that power is massive the moral rights of workers need a voice and unions have to be it.

You simply cannot have a fair and democratic capitalist society without them.

cornbb

Seems to me that the unions are acting up for the sake of acting up. They tend to assert justification for their existence by creating illusionary issues. There was a time when unions were vital to protecting workers' rights, these days they spend so much time crying wolf that they'll get zero public sympathy next time there is actually a valid abuse of worker's rights.

Management in companies like AL need to rid themselves of this culture. The staff need to come to terms with the fact that if they want their employer to survive, they need to go the extra mile. The company should incentivise them to do so: If they get rid of this culture, and if the company thrives because of it, then they should share in the rewards (bonuses, stock options, overtime etc).

saywhatyousee

OutlawPete wrote: »

Quite a sweeping statement and if all unions did was act like the world owed them a living, their members would not tolerate it.

Why would they? For one - it would get them nowhere in the longrun.

Also, someone doesn't have to be a socialist to see the value in unions. It has become fashionable to deride them in this day an age, for whatever reason I don't know. You seem to be blind to how destructive capitalism would be without them.

I'm not saying that they can be whiter than snow and are always acting from a position of genuine grievance, but without them this country would go to shit if it hasn't already that is.

Unions are (or should be) just there to balance the power that management has over them. The potential for abusive of that power is massive the moral rights of workers need a voice and unions have to be it.

You simply cannot have a fair and democratic capitalist society without them.

great post seems since the recession started people are not allowed complain anymore.if you complain you will get the same statements over and over
"head in the sand"
"sense of entitlement"
and all the other bull crap that is sprouted around here

sellerbarry

Cabin crew will probably end up with half an hour off to change their cheques on Fridays.;)

Orando Broom

Joey the lips wrote: »

I love the work class attitude that exists in this country.

f@ck your strike if i cannot get to where i want

It explains why

We have unions with no power.

People on crap wages.

a goverment who plays golf with manageing directors rather than look after us

Ryanair are very unethical in this dispute imo. They have given aer lingus plays at below market rate and these are most likely staffed by people who are more delighted they are in a plane than in there own country.

I just wish for once we could all sit down and look at these situtations and realise that while is making our travel plans difficult

It has the real effect of totally screwing up our kids chances of decent employment as it will become the standard in jobs.

But not to worry you can get where your going so screw everyone else i imagine.

oh well

The Unions in this country were only too happy to jump into bed with the government and IBEC and any other group that was going for a slice of the Celtic Tiger pie. It's time to smash the unions in Ireland. They've ruined this country and made the workforce uncompetitive.

the unions heads know their way round the back nine of Druids Glen too may I remind you. These guys were getting six figure salaries for being Fianna Fail's lapdogs.

There are no Ceasar Chavezs in Ireland let me tell you.

**** the Unions and **** their agendas.

ILA

Support the Workers!

bada_bing

850 hours a year for CC????? that's less than half of what the average 9 to 5 person works in a year. I used my employment as an example e.g. 365 - 102 ( weekends) - 10 ( bank holidays) - 20 (annual leave) = 233 * 7.5 hours a day gives you 1747.5 hours a year for me. and that's all before you add in overtime & travelling abroad on the job.
Seems they are indeed pampered , spoilt and out of touch with reality!!!!

kevinmcc

Sack them all I say! I'd take their job if they paid me half what they are on! I'll work 12 hours without a break, seeing as I'll have a day in New York or Orlando to rest right after it I seen on someone who works for EI's facebook page that they were on the Orlando route recently and stayed there for 3 days before having to fly back, and they think they have it tough :rolleyes:

And what's this about crew having family commitments, ****s sake your in the airline industry, flexibility will be required!

Wibbs

Joey the lips wrote: »

I love the work class attitude that exists in this country.

"Work class"? sorry don't follow you.

We have unions with no power.

ha.. ha..hahahhahhahahahhahahahhahahahhaha Ah jesus stop Joey, I'm squirting my elevenses out of my nose here. Croke park agreement anyone. Heads of unions being directors on various banks etc. You have got to be effin joking. Try the self employed who have absolutely zero power and are entitled to eff all. Now there you may have a point. But unions and unionised workers? Eh no. Just no.

People on crap wages.

Less hilarious, but kinda mirth worthy. We have high wages in this country. We're pricing ourselves out of the international markets in a few areas. And no I'm not talking the two bowls of rice a day jobs either.

a goverment who plays golf with manageing directors rather than look after us

True but unrelated. Well... not if we go back to the same union leaders with "interesting" connections.

saywhatyousee

bada_bing wrote: »

850 hours a year for CC????? that's less than half of what the average 9 to 5 person works in a year. I used my employment as an example e.g. 365 - 102 ( weekends) - 10 ( bank holidays) - 20 (annual leave) = 233 * 7.5 hours a day gives you 1747.5 hours a year for me. and that's all before you add in overtime & travelling abroad on the job.
Seems they are indeed pampered , spoilt and out of touch with reality!!!!

850 is just flying hours i presume they do hours on the ground unless they all work part time

Wibbs

ILA wrote: »

Support the Workers!

Buy bras!

SeaFields

I'm not too familiar with the whole thing but I wonder is there significance in that at the moment its only the Dublin staff involved in this dispute?

Seems like the Cork and Shannon crews are just getting on with it as per the agreement. Or is it likely to spread?

I'm flying out of Cork next Saturday. Will be a very, very angry man if my holiday is cancelled because of this.

cock robin

Sack the lot of em. Sure all they do is serve tea in the sky FFS. Hardly rocket science.

LittleBook

Journal.ie

The discrimination claims centre on the question of whether the airline had breached equality laws, as the new rosters had a greater impact on female staff by making it impossible for them to handle their family responsibilities.

Oh I see, because only women can handle their family responsibilities.

I wonder how those of us who find it necessary to work more than an average of 20 hours per week manage? :rolleyes:

Keep digging that hole ladies.

saywhatyousee

SeaFields wrote: »

I'm not too familiar with the whole thing but I wonder is there significance in that at the moment its only the Dublin staff involved in this dispute?

Seems like the Cork and Shannon crews are just getting on with it as per the agreement. Or is it likely to spread?

I'm flying out of Cork next Saturday. Will be a very, very angry man if my holiday is cancelled because of this.

could be worse i am flying from dublin tomorrow with them:eek::eek:

Tipp Man

Unions - the ruination of many a good company and some bad ones as well

Lord Trollington

bada_bing wrote: »

850 hours a year for CC????? that's less than half of what the average 9 to 5 person works in a year. I used my employment as an example e.g. 365 - 102 ( weekends) - 10 ( bank holidays) - 20 (annual leave) = 233 * 7.5 hours a day gives you 1747.5 hours a year for me. and that's all before you add in overtime & travelling abroad on the job.
Seems they are indeed pampered , spoilt and out of touch with reality!!!!

Don't comment on something you know nothing about. The 850 hours is 850 hours flight time, not actual working hours. So its basically from the time the aircraft takes of until it lands and reaches its gate.

Having worked in Aerlingus in the past i know how it goes.

As Cabin Crew you check in an hour before a flight, and 2 hours before an Transatlantic flight.

Cabin Crew work unsocialble hours 7 days a week, bank holiday, easter, christmas all year round.

Its not all the glitz and glam that some people would make it out to be.

You fly to a destination, turn around and come back.

If you do happen to do a Transatlantic flight, You fly out for up to a 14 hour duty, and then stay one night away from your family/friends and fly back the following day through the night Irish Time.
You get home and your not worth a sh*t for 2 days because your body clock is all over the place.

There are many different aspects to this dispute. One of which is Aerlingus do not wish to grant a half hour meal break during a duty. A duty could last anything up to a 10 hour day. In what other job would someone not get a half hour break during a 9 hour day?

In saying that, there are plenty of people in Aerlingus that should be glad they have a job.

I'm neither siding with the Union or the Company, but people should know all the facts.

FlutterinBantam

OutlawPete wrote: »

Quite a sweeping statement and if all unions did was act like the world owed them a living, their members would not tolerate it.

Why would they? For one - it would get them nowhere in the longrun.

Also, someone doesn't have to be a socialist to see the value in unions. It has become fashionable to deride them in this day an age, for whatever reason I don't know. You seem to be blind to how destructive capitalism would be without them.

I'm not saying that they can be whiter than snow and are always acting from a position of genuine grievance, but without them this country would go to shit if it hasn't already that is.

Unions are (or should be) just there to balance the power that management has over them. The potential for abuse of that power is massive the moral rights of workers need a voice and unions have to be it.

You simply cannot have a fair and democratic capitalist society without them.

Why is it in a company (Aer Lingus) which never has had forced redundancies,has conditions ,perks, pay and a career path which many can only look enviously at, have such an appalling industrial relations history?

Why?

Because over the years the Unions held a stranglehold over the Company, because a certain coterie in the workforce saw the advantage of this and using the strength behind them succeeded in binding Aer Lingus in a skein of rules regulations conditions which would take a constitutional lawyer to unravel.

This would wear in the 'old days' when a nod and a wink and a years discussion with plenty of working lunches and drinks and 'fact finding missions'

Then the chairs would be re-arranged, nothing would change and everyone would carry on until someone felt 'put upon' and needed a bit of disruption,totally confident that a few weeks later there would be no recriminations, no hard feelings and the same old bandwagon would rumble on to next dispute.


Those days are well gone , time you realised it.

Lord Trollington

saywhatyousee wrote: »

could be worse i am flying from dublin tomorrow with them:eek::eek:

Where are you flying to, I could guess if you will be effected or not.

will1977

whycliff wrote: »

Don't comment on something you know nothing about. The 850 hours is 850 hours flight time, not actual working hours. So its basically from the time the aircraft takes of until it lands and reaches its gate.

Having worked in Aerlingus in the past i know how it goes.

As Cabin Crew you check in an hour before a flight, and 2 hours before an Transatlantic flight.

Cabin Crew work unsocialble hours 7 days a week, bank holiday, easter, christmas all year round.

Its not all the glitz and glam that some people would make it out to be.

You fly to a destination, turn around and come back.

If you do happen to do a Transatlantic flight, You fly out for up to a 14 hour duty, and then stay one night away from your family/friends and fly back the following day through the night Irish Time.
You get home and your not worth a sh*t for 2 days because your body clock is all over the place.

There are many different aspects to this dispute. One of which is Aerlingus do not wish to grant a half hour meal break during a duty. A duty could last anything up to a 10 hour day. In what other job would someone not get a half hour break during a 9 hour day?

In saying that, there are plenty of people in Aerlingus that should be glad they have a job.

I'm neither siding with the Union or the Company, but people should know all the facts.

Correct me if Im wrong but do they not spend 3 nights when they are in the US in 4/5 star hotels before they fly back and then get another 2/3 days off after they come back ??

Beaucoupfish

OisinT wrote: »

This is one of the main reasons why I'm dreading a large Labour presence in any new government. This type of bullyboy tactics is wrong.

Vote FF

Tipp Man

whycliff wrote: »

As Cabin Crew you check in an hour before a flight, and 2 hours before an Transatlantic flight.

Cabin Crew work unsocialble hours 7 days a week, bank holiday, easter, christmas all year round.

Its not all the glitz and glam that some people would make it out to be.

You fly to a destination, turn around and come back.

If you do happen to do a Transatlantic flight, You fly out for up to a 14 hour duty, and then stay one night away from your family/friends and fly back the following day through the night Irish Time.
You get home and your not worth a sh*t for 2 days because your body clock is all over the place.

Isn't this known to everybody BEFORE they start working as an air steward??

Plenty of people work long and anti social hours in other jobs

there is a huge culture problem at AER Lingus - between pilots on strike, cabin crew on strike, ground staff on strike. in the long run it would probably be better for the company if they made every staff member redunant - banned unions ala Ryanair - and started again

The company would be better and the customers better served

FlutterinBantam

will1977 wrote: »

Correct me if Im wrong but do they not spend 3 nights when they are in the US in 4/5 star hotels before they fly back and then get another 2/3 days off after they come back ??

Not strictly correct.

Typical Dub-JFK Monday arr JFK circa 1430.... return Tue about 1900 in at 0600.

Some destinations may not have a daily flight hence the three night scenario.

kevinmcc

I worked my ass of on an outsourced ground role at the airport whilst cabin crew have it handy. They have **** all to do. When it snows they stand there and say how they hope it's cancelled so they can stay in New York another day, and get extra allowance. They avoid having to deal with passengers roaring in your face when the flight is delayed or cancelled. I got 0 benefits, not much more than a minimum wage, unsociable hours yet I got on with it. They cry about not having a break, well I worked sometime from 5pm right through to 8am the next morning dealing with cancellations through the time of the ash..where were the crew? sitting in a hotel in new york getting extra daily allowances for nothing!

solerina

After having read all this..much of it not actually realted to the issue (just sniping at unions/the government/anyone at all)...I have yet to learn what exactly this dispute is about....surely there is more to it than an arguemant over a short lunch/coffee break.....has anyone got any real facts on this issue. If it is all over a short lunch break god help us !!