Aerlingus Cabin Crew want the best of both worlds

AfterDusk

Firstly, how exactly do my comments, or the comments of anybody else here lead you to conclude that they are employed by Ryanair?!

Also, your method of posting is rather annoying. Instead of making 10 posts in a row, why not condense them into ONE?

FreudianSlippers

thebullkf wrote: »

so its not the government/bankers et al?

et al... exactly. Unions and the types like the CC at EI at the moment are responsible as much as anyone else for the problems

AL is a business, profitable.... you are mistaken if you think they give aflying fiddlers about people on the dole...

Profitable? I don't think so.

thebullkf

OisinT wrote: »

Everyone seems to be evading the point I made earlier about the decision being made already in arbitration and the unions attempting to usurp the decision by relying on a loophole in implementation.

If EI CC are so damaged by this deal then isn't it really your union's fault for entering into arbitration?

is that directed @ me i'm unemployed:mad:


As to your question, it was answered already....

Some posters seem to be coming on,lashing out @ Al staff,mocking people outta work,being bitter,jealous, and basically being a bit of a cunt,then fecking off.... this thread is a plane crash.

thebullkf

neil2304 wrote: »

Firstly, how exactly do my comments, or the comments of anybody else here lead you to conclude that they are employed by Ryanair?!

Also, your method of posting is rather annoying. Instead of making 10 posts in a row, why not condense them into ONE?

because unlike certain posters, i read the thread-and reply to certain posts?

my method of posting annoying you?... ah well-someit else for you to pontificate on so:rolleyes:

FreudianSlippers

thebullkf wrote: »

is that directed @ me i'm unemployed:mad:

No, I'd have quoted your post in question. Bunch of people are talking a load of shíte and I'm curious as to what the position is on the fact that it's not really EI's fault that the CC aren't happy with the decision reached in arbitration.

As to your question, it was answered already....

Some posters seem to be coming on,lashing out @ Al staff,mocking people outta work,being bitter,jealous, and basically being a bit of a cunt,then fecking off.... this thread is a plane crash.

Maybe I'm just tired, but that in no way answers my question.

macbrada

Ah poor bull....tryin to defend a viewpoint that is so transparent and irrelevant...lol.. No more hiding behind the union driven inefficiencies that once were supported by the government wallet..I.e the taxpayer.

No more handouts...aer lingus for sale...it's obvious to the educated! Mueller prepping for sale but putting on this sideshow to distract the clueless unions...It's working too.

Share prices more than doubled in recent times...accepting the roster change would actually mess up his plans......yee can't see the wood for the trees ......

thebullkf

OisinT wrote: »

et al... exactly. Unions and the types like the CC at EI at the moment are responsible as much as anyone else for the problems[

ffs... LOL!

Profitable? I don't think so.

you think so if you like mate:)

FreudianSlippers

thebullkf wrote: »

because unlike certain posters, i read the thread-and reply to certain posts?

my method of posting annoying you?... ah well-someit else for you to pontificate on so:rolleyes:

In fairness, the multi-quote option is much better and makes the pages easier to read.

It's this button btw: http://b-static.net/vbulletin/images/buttons/multiquote_off.gif

vintac34

Well as i see it ,if they dont like their t&c just leave,let those that accept get on with the job!!
Too many companies have been shut down by unions already.
From what ive heard its mostly a number of old Grannies that are behind all this who really dont like being inconvenienced picking up their grandchildren from school/music lessons etc.
As ive said before Aer Lingus should(for the sake of the companys future) sack the lot and rehire those that want to work!!!
BTW if its not alredy clear,,,,,I Hate unions and shop stewards.Outdated, as pleny of protection out there for the willing worker.Great to see good management in Aer Lingus at last..

thebullkf

macbrada wrote: »

Ah poor bull....tryin to defend a viewpoint that is so transparent and irrelevant...lol.. No more hiding behind the union driven inefficiencies that once were supported by the government wallet..I.e the taxpayer.

No more handouts...aer lingus for sale...it's obvious to the educated! Mueller prepping for sale but putting on this sideshow to distract the clueless unions...It's working too.

Share prices more than doubled in recent times...accepting the roster change would actually mess up his plans......yee can't see the wood for the trees ......

ah poor macbrada....12 posts...most of em here bashing workers...if its not this thread,its bashing OTIS lift staff for striking....

nuff said.

AfterDusk

thebullkf wrote: »

because unlike certain posters, i read the thread-and reply to certain posts?

my method of posting annoying you?... ah well-someit else for you to pontificate on so:rolleyes:

Didn't manage to answer my first question there..... Or do I have to wait to get a separate post because I asked 2 questions?

FreudianSlippers

thebullkf wrote: »

ffs... LOL!

Good job making a coherent and logical rebuttal :rolleyes:

you think so if you like mate:)

EI made a €94 million loss in the first six months of 2010 and a minor profit in the second six months, with an overall loss of over €70mil for the year.
There is the possibility it may return profit this year, but it will be minuscule.

So, I'm the one with facts while you're the one "thinking". :rolleyes:

thebullkf

OisinT wrote: »

No,

Maybe I'm just tired, but that in no way answers my question.

i'm not here to answer your question,it was answered already- in thread.

you're doing what i said others where doing-dipping in and out and throwing in the odd comment.


re-read the thread;)

thebullkf

OisinT wrote: »

In fairness, the multi-quote option is much better and makes the pages easier to read.

It's this button btw: http://b-static.net/vbulletin/images/buttons/multiquote_off.gif

i agree, i am also well aware of which button it is. no need to be smart.

thebullkf

neil2304 wrote: »

Didn't manage to answer my first question there..... Or do I have to wait to get a separate post because I asked 2 questions?

another smart arse reply- *ignores*

FreudianSlippers

thebullkf wrote: »

i'm not here to answer your question,it was answered already- in thread.

you're doing what i said others where doing-dipping in and out and throwing in the odd comment.


re-read the thread;)

It was not answered already, I have read the thread and I don't post all day every day because I have a life and a job.

Also, I think you'll find that I've posted much more in this thread than you have even considering you are incapable of using the multi-quote function.

thebullkf wrote: »

i agree, i am also well aware of which button it is. no need to be smart.

So use it then?

thebullkf

OisinT wrote: »

Good job making a coherent and logical rebuttal :rolleyes:



EI made a €94 million loss in the first six months of 2010 and a minor profit in the second six months, with an overall loss of over €70mil for the year.
There is the possibility it may return profit this year, but it will be minuscule.

So, I'm the one with facts while you're the one "thinking". :rolleyes:

what facts??? ... oh you mean your posts with no links?

oh i see...

AfterDusk

thebullkf wrote: »

another smart arse reply- *ignores*

Grand so. Maybe don't make your own smart arse comments regarding who you think I work for in future, and I won't respond in such a manner!

FreudianSlippers

thebullkf wrote: »

what facts??? ... oh you mean your posts with no links?

oh i see...

http://www.aerlingus.com/media/aerlinguscom/content/pdfs/corporate/H12010ResultsPresentation.pdf

thebullkf

OisinT wrote: »

It was not answered already, I have read the thread and I don't post all day every day because I have a life and a job.

thanks, way to go,seeing as how i'm on the dole:rolleyes:

So use it then?

eh ... on your say so?... don't think so pal.

kevinmcc

thebullkf wrote: »

thanks, way to go,seeing as how i'm on the dole:rolleyes:




eh ... on your say so?... don't think so pal.

thebull do you actually have anything to contribute or are you just here to have a go at other users?

thebullkf

OisinT wrote: »

http://www.aerlingus.com/media/aerlinguscom/content/pdfs/corporate/H12010ResultsPresentation.pdf

up 36 million from oct 2009-2010.... despite volcanic ash closures... if not exactly profitable..healthy is a better word:)

thebullkf

kevinmcc wrote: »

thebull do you actually have anything to contribute or are you just here to have a go at other users?

i contribute support,and som realism to the debate- i only criticise certain posts, (yours among others i might add) just because i disagree with you doesn't mean i don't contribute.

Fact remains streamlining is reqquired in AL, no doubt- they're not the behemoth they once were- but the strong arm approachis wrong imo.

don't forget, oleary only wants what he despises... AL,.

FreudianSlippers

thebullkf wrote: »

up 36 million from oct 2009-2010.... despite volcanic ash closures... if not exactly profitable..healthy is a better word:)

They made €97+ million in cuts between 2009 and 2010. So it's false "profit" IMO.

Sure, operating profits are going to go down when you make the same amount and slash your expenses.
EI needed to be either a low-cost carrier akin to RyanAir or operate a successful model of tiered cabins in an alliance (I'd recommend OneWorld because of the existing United ties) but they went half-assed in both directions and as a result we have an airline that has no brand identity and has profits and expenditure jumping from one extreme to the other.

IMO EI should be the slightly more expensive but more luxurious way to travel around Europe and to the US with FR being dirt cheap with no frills and charge even more for checked baggage to cheap airports.

thebullkf

OisinT wrote: »

http://www.aerlingus.com/media/aerlinguscom/content/pdfs/corporate/H12010ResultsPresentation.pdf

why didn't you use the multi quote button ...:P:P:P

FreudianSlippers

thebullkf wrote: »

i contribute support,and som realism to the debate- i only criticise certain posts, (yours among others i might add) just because i disagree with you doesn't mean i don't contribute.

Fact remains streamlining is reqquired in AL, no doubt- they're not the behemoth they once were- but the strong arm approachis wrong imo.

don't forget, oleary only wants what he despises... AL,.

That's my point. There has been no strong arm approach. EI went to arbitration with the CC and a decision was reached.

Now the CC and their unions are attempting to circumvent the decision by relying on a loophole in implementation.

thebullkf wrote: »

why didn't you use the multi quote button ...:P:P:P

Because I was replying to one post.

thebullkf

OisinT wrote: »

That's my point. There has been no strong arm approach. EI went to arbitration with the CC and a decision was reached.

Now the CC and their unions are attempting to circumvent the decision by relying on a loophole in implementation.

its not a loophole @(from my understanding) i think it was Cabincrew who gave the lowdown.. check her posts out.;)

you must admit some of the posting has been borderline abuse,uncalled for and unnecessary... uncanny how its still open...in AH!

I'm just sick of the sniping, i'd love half their wages for christ sakes,but i don't begrudge them a penny.

we bailed out the banks-they're still giving out bonuses!!..the government on its knees,employers currently raping employees all over the country.....wheres the outrage??? ... on an AL CC forum..

Because I was replying to one post.

with two of your own:pac:

i was buzzing btw:D

rorybro

I unequivically blame the Cabin Crew. If the union is telling you to strike against your will, and against, your moral judgement, then, I'm sure EI doesn't have a closed shop agreement with them. Quit the union, and get back to work.

If you object to what EI is paying you, or how they're treating you, and after discussing the matter, you can't agree on a suitable salary/conditions package, then quit, find someone else who'll pay you what you're worth, and give you the conditions you deserve, and let EI's loss of someone of your calibre be their loss. If you can't get someone to improve on EI's offer, then maybe you're not worth that much in the first place.

In the current situation, these unjustified, nay, these unprovoked strikers are a cancer, and I think the only chemotherapist on hand, might be Michael O'Leary.

Calhoun

thebullkf wrote: »

its not a loophole @(from my understanding) i think it was Cabincrew who gave the lowdown.. check her posts out.;)

you must admit some of the posting has been borderline abuse,uncalled for and unnecessary... uncanny how its still open...in AH!

I'm just sick of the sniping, i'd love half their wages for christ sakes,but i don't begrudge them a penny.

we bailed out the banks-they're still giving out bonuses!!..the government on its knees,employers currently raping employees all over the country.....wheres the outrage??? ... on an AL CC forum..



with two of your own:pac:

i was buzzing btw:D

Following this thread and haven't posted on it for ages but i hope by the borderline abuse you are talking about that you mean it came from both sides because from what i have seen from both gave as good as they got.

I don't begrudge them anything but they would want to be careful as this could end like Lufthansa tecknic with no jobs for anyone.

There is no outrage because unfortunately for these folks like taxi drivers ect they have found themselves operating in a free market economy and the life they have become accustomed to no longer exists, for an airliner to survive it has to be competitive and change how it operates and that may mean in the end they have to lose some of the long term staff who cant make this change.

culdaffguy

I find IMPACT Facebook page rather funny. Taken over by AL crew.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/IMPACT-Trade-Union/147094071028?v=wall

FlutterinBantam

thebullkf wrote: »

your posts are worse, your appearance of rationale now doesn't change the fact,you were initially trolling (imo) on this thread.

The usual washed out rhetoric, accuse someone of trolling when the post something you don't like.

I don't troll, so how about you get away from that worn out response and actually say something sensible.

JustinDee

This 'IMPACT' union has admitted that the re-negotiations have come as far as 830 hours to the Aer Lingus model of 850.

Thats 20 hours difference per year. Not even a half hour per week. This is what this is over. Its good enough for the majority who have accepted it.
For the sake of a union's 'belief' that this makes all the difference, a minority of employees are prepared to cripple the company even further. Never mind the Icelandic volcano or the Arctic conditions, a deluded excuse of 'unionism' is much more a threat to the airline.

Typically Irish.

Diddler1977

http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-do-you-support-the-actions-of-aer-lingus-cabin-crew-2011-01/?voted=1

Do you support the actions of CC?
Here's a poll.

Peanut2011

cabincrew wrote: »

At what cost should we have to put up or shut up.if EI get what they want then wait and see what other employers are going to do..then we will see the moaners!

we are realistic about our expectations,we have even more than any other department in the last 5years...they keep coming back at us..not because we are cabincrew its because our department is mostly female and they think we are weak.well enough is enough,if they win then i will leave because it would be impossible to have a work/life balance.but im not going without a fight ,i love my job,im lucky to have a job but im afraid slave labour was abolished many years ago.

OH C'mon PLEASE!!!! What you have just written here is the exact bull that many unions are feeding their members!!! Do you think your actions are making your job safer??? What if they decide to close the company as they can no longer survive???

Or do you think cos AL is a national carrier the government will have to intervene???

ALSO, since you brought it up, do you think women should be treated differently??? So many years women have fought to get equal status but every time there is something yous disagree on, you pull that card out. Do you think that is fair to all the women who fought for so long?

When you say slave labour was abolished, yes you are right, but you would not know the first thing about it.

How many people in this country would be more than happy to have a job and how many more have more than one job to support their families. Do you think their work / life balance is right?? Do you think they can strike and get better deal?

If you think what you do id slave labour, than get out of it and go try and find a better one.

Also, just to point out, I would have been one of the passengers who would exclusivity look to book with AL due to the service and friendly attitude, but your actions and actions of your co-workers is not winning you any sympathy at all. It's doing quite opposite in my eyes.

Peanut2011

cabincrew wrote: »

What would that solve?? just another 1000 people on the dole que.

You honestly think that they would offer the positions tp irish people???i think not.

THE CEO IS GERMAN
THE OPERATIONS MANAGER IS AUSTRALIAN
THE CABIN CREW MANAGER IS ENGLISH

THEY SAID DURING THE SUMMER THEY WERE TAKING ON STUDENTS TO TRAVEL TO AND FROM OUR OUTSTATIONS FOR RESEARCH..GUESS WHAT..THEY WERE GERMAN STUDENTS.

Sooooo?????? What has that got to do with anything???? It is your action that will inevitably have the company close the doors and move to the country where they can operate without the MAFIA, oh sorry UNION, calling the shots!

RasTa

thebullkf wrote: »

#


no need for that, petty+small minded....you just marred any sensble post you might contribute.

lol why don't you try and debate with the poster instead of making outlandish statements and generally ignoring all points that have being put forward. The user said herself she would refuse to sign up to the new roster so she will be removed from the payroll no?

Peanut2011

chalkitdown wrote: »

Wow, I've just noticed that most of the posters that are supporting management in this are new to boards....Hmmm....

And what's that got to do with anything??

kate74

JustinDee wrote: »

This 'IMPACT' union has admitted that the re-negotiations have come as far as 830 hours to the Aer Lingus model of 850.

Thats 20 hours difference per year. Not even a half hour per week. This is what this is over. Its good enough for the majority who have accepted it.
For the sake of a union's 'belief' that this makes all the difference, a minority of employees are prepared to cripple the company even further. Never mind the Icelandic volcano or the Arctic conditions, a deluded excuse of 'unionism' is much more a threat to the airline.

Typically Irish.

Any you could look at it if the dispute is over only 20 hours a year then why are Aer Lingus refusing to sort this out and wasting up to 400k a day hiring in other aircraft, bullying staff and causing the public grief with cancelling flights.

FlutterinBantam

kate74 wrote: »

Any you could look at it if the dispute is over only 20 hours a year then why are Aer Lingus refusing to sort this out and wasting up to 400k a day hiring in other aircraft, bullying staff and causing the public grief with cancelling flights.

20 hrs per year per staff member = 1000 x 20 = 20,000 hrs = 5000 Dub-Lhr rtn per year... thats why

Cochore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gk8zzmmsPY

EI cabin crew need to realise that it is just a job and not a career.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypar-aVN_lo

ixoy

kate74 wrote: »

Any you could look at it if the dispute is over only 20 hours a year then why are Aer Lingus refusing to sort this out

By refusing to sort out, you mean "by not agreeing with the union's demands" right?

And it's getting a little tiring by some posters who think that, if you don't back the CC in this dispute it means that you're advocating a race to the bottom, and that you condone slave wages (and an insult to those who suffered genuine slavery). It seems that they just can't wrap your head around the fact that you just don't agree.

JustinDee

kate74 wrote: »

Any you could look at it if the dispute is over only 20 hours a year then why are Aer Lingus refusing to sort this out and wasting up to 400k a day hiring in other aircraft, bullying staff and causing the public grief with cancelling flights.

Why do you say its only Aer Lingus refusing? It isn't.
It also involves a small number of the IMPACT members on its payroll refusing to participate in cost-cutting measures of which similar has been taken by other airlines in the industry.

pocketvenus

thebullkf wrote: »

so its not the government/bankers et al?




AL is a business, profitable.... you are mistaken if you think they give aflying fiddlers about people on the dole...



AT LAST!....the truth behind your posts.... Bitterness,and Jealousy.... if you and your colleagus chose to do it. its your business... enough of the begrudgery please.

I never said the Gov / bankers weren't to blame what I said that workers like the EI CC also play a part. Workers who refuse to face reality and accept that people have to do more for same or less to keep their company going.

Secondly if you had read my post correctly I also never said AL cared about people on the dole, what I did say was that EI was trying to bring in measures to ensure no more jobs would be lost, thus preventing their CC ending up on the dole.

And of course to address the final point that is the standard fluff spouted out when people know they are fighting a losing battle. How sad.
I am def not bittter or jealous, of what EI CC and the likes you must be joking. What the hell do I have to be jealous about.
No what I am is amazed their are so far removed from reality that they cannot accept what has to be done to keep company alive.
People are not begrudging them a job or wages, what people are sick of is EI and their CC consistently striking, working to rule or moanaing. I mean the workers and their union must spend more time at the LC then the staff there. The airline industry is no longer what it was, in order to survive you have to streamline, keep cost efficient and that is what EI is trying to do.

The vested intrest you must have is blinding you.

Ruu_Old

Jaysus, what else can go wrong? I have been home for a week and so far Cowen resigned, most of the government quit and falling apart and bombs in Russia. Not to mention poor Richard Keys and Andy Gray. I might not get back to the states.

Source: rte.ie

Aer Lingus has been forced to cancel dozens of flights over the coming week due to the ongoing dispute with cabin crew over new rostering arrangements.

Travel agents have been told that 16 flights have been cancelled today, with a further 62 cancellations over the coming week.

Affected destinations include Manchester, Amsterdam, Prague, Heathrow, Madrid and Lisbon, amongst others.

Aer Lingus has confirmed that at least 12 flights will be cancelled today, and that there will be further disruption for as long as the dispute continues.

A spokesperson for the company said they did not know at this stage just how many flights will have to be cancelled.

The cancelled flights were due to operate on British and European routes, but Aer Lingus said all passengers have been contacted and accommodated on alternative flights.

Aer Lingus is continuing to hire in outside aircraft and crews to service its flight schedule as the second week of the dispute with cabin crew continues.

So far, almost 200 cabin crew have been removed from the company's payroll for refusing to operate the new rosters.

Disciplinary proceedings with three staff, due to take place this morning, have been postponed until later in the day due to a procedural matter.

Red Hand

Ruu wrote: »

Jaysus, what else can go wrong? I have been home for a week and so far Cowen resigned, most of the government quit and falling apart and bombs in Russia. Not to mention poor Richard Keys and Andy Gray. I might not get back to the states.

Source: rte.ie

Ruu for Taoiseach. He's in the country right now!

Give him full admin powers and he'll turn the country round like he did boards.:pac:

Skadoosh

kate74 wrote: »

Any you could look at it if the dispute is over only 20 hours a year then why are Aer Lingus refusing to sort this out and wasting up to 400k a day hiring in other aircraft, bullying staff and causing the public grief with cancelling flights.

I would think it's because the cabin crew have historically refused to make concessions without a long drawn out fight and without conceding much less than other sections, and if they win on this, the company might as well just hand them the keys. And what happens if they need some changes at some other point from cabin crew or another section? Do they go through the arbitration process and keep their fingers crossed that the union will accept what they've signed up to? And why should any other section sign up to changes in work practices if cabin crew get away with this? And then what?

I'm not normally pro-management but in the last few years I've seen the unions feck the company over for the sake of their own jobs, not their members jobs. The discontent with Siptu a few years ago where they were following their own agenda was unreal, and now Impact are doing the same thing.

I hate seeing the "hand it to Michael O'Leary" posts because lets face it, if he takes over my husband will be out of there and so will a lot of other staff. Who would want to work for him? It's not that my husband has it in any way handy (and I'll be honest and say "any more") but do we all really want to be working for the Michael O'Leary school of industrial relations? I know four people who've left Ryanair because their situation was untenable. No thanks. If this is what cabin crew are driving the public towards, a wish that O'Leary would take over the airline, then thanks lads.

Do you think it's worth jeopardising thousands of jobs in the company for the sake of 20 flying hours a year per cabin crew member? Thousands of jobs where other workers have already made much more significant concessions to keep the airline afloat? This sort of intransigence is what will shut the airline if they don't cop on themselves.

rorybro

Skadoosh wrote: »

I hate seeing the "hand it to Michael O'Leary" posts because lets face it, if he takes over my husband will be out of there and so will a lot of other staff. Who would want to work for him?

Don't know - maybe the 7 odd thousand people that work for Ryanair?

There are two types of people in this world. People who want to work, and people who want to protest. The former gravitate towards Ryanair, and the latter gravitate towards Aer Lingus.

It's important that Aer Lingus resist the pressure these spoilt brats are exerting now, and like the phoenix rise from the ashes, and leave any notion that such extortion tactics ( from the cabin crew ) are acceptable.

Skadoosh

rorybro wrote: »

Don't know - maybe the 7 odd thousand people that work for Ryanair?

There are two types of people in this world. People who want to work, and people who want to protest. The former gravitate towards Ryanair, and the latter gravitate towards Aer Lingus.

It's important that Aer Lingus resist the pressure these spoilt brats are exerting now, and like the phoenix rise from the ashes, and leave any notion that such extortion tactics ( from the cabin crew ) are acceptable.

I know several people in Ryanair and I don't know one who's happy. There's productivity and there's bullheadedness. Horrible attitude to staff and I know 3 (not Aer Lingus or ex EI I hasten to add) who've left in the last couple of years because of the treatment meted out to staff. It's nothing to do with not wanting to work, it's to do with safety issues and lack of support. Anyway, that's a whole other thread.

rorybro

Skadoosh wrote: »

I know several people in Ryanair and I don't know one who's happy.

I used to work there. I was quite happy ( until a better opportunity came along careerwise ). I will however freely admit that you do have to be a little thick-skinned. If you're afraid to tell someone to sod-off you won't get very far in Ryanair.

On the other hand, if you know someone who isn't happy at Ryanair, they why are they still there?

There's productivity and there's bullheadedness.

and theres proof that if you stand up to union bullies that you can emerge with a successful, streamlined, efficient company.

Skadoosh

rorybro wrote: »

I used to work there. I was quite happy ( until a better opportunity came along careerwise ). I will however freely admit that you do have to be a little thick-skinned. If you're afraid to tell someone to sod-off you won't get very far in Ryanair.

On the other hand, if you know someone who isn't happy at Ryanair, they why are they still there?


and theres proof that if you stand up to union bullies that you can emerge with a successful, streamlined, efficient company.

In a word, recession. As I said, 3 have left, the others are looking.

And in case you didn't notice, I'm against what Impact are doing.