Aerlingus Cabin Crew want the best of both worlds

cabincrew

mandy30 wrote: »

Oh yes they can, and I do :-)

Pilots, crew, ground staff, trainers, airplanes.....all can be drafted in from elsewhere. You are not special in any way that the operations of an airline grounds to a halt if any of you are not there.

oh my god,you say you worked in the airline industry for years!! you have no clue girl...eu ops (the law) any new entrant cabincrew must fly with experienced crew for 3 months(didnt you know that?? they must also do their check flights ...who will do that???you cant have anymore than 1 new crew member on a flight at any one time...that is the law under eu ops and the iaa

mandy30

cabincrew wrote: »

oh my god,you say you worked in the airline industry for years!! you have no clue girl...eu ops (the law) any new entrant cabincrew must fly with experienced crew for 3 months(didnt you know that?? they must also do their check flights ...who will do that???you cant have anymore than 1 new crew member on a flight at any one time...that is the law under eu ops and the iaa

And how many flights go in one day? With 1 new crew member on each?
Dont be so silly. The ones who rightfully get the boot over this dispute will be easily replaced.
There are ways and means with everything in EI. As you will soon realise.

cabincrew

kevinmcc wrote: »

So your salary is approx 25k plus commission?

You have access to flights on Aer Lingus, ZED and ID90's on other airlines. Don't you think your lucky? You do realise Ryanair crew based at DUB earn likely half of that amount and have no pension, healthcare, ZED or ID90 tickets. Aer Lingus has been making a loss the past 2-3 years as you will know from working there. Don't you rather accept these new conditions rather than run the risk of the airline going bust and having no job and no perks?

we made profit last year and don't get healthcare(im not complaining about that either) we have reduced our salary's ..not a problem,giving them more productivity (13 percent) what they are doing with our roster does not increase productivity it is designed to make our work/life balance so hard that we leave..that's what they want,they want temp staff and not people on a salary scale.he admitted this..how does the right to request a weekend off every 8 weeks result in less productivity?? we gave so so so much..enough is enough.

cabincrew

mandy30 wrote: »

And how many flights go in one day? With 1 new crew member on each?
Dont be so silly. The ones who rightfully get the boot over this dispute will be easily replaced.
There are ways and means with everything in EI. As you will soon realise.

that will be 97percent of us so.

kevinmcc

cabincrew wrote: »

we made profit last year and don't get healthcare(im not complaining about that either) we have reduced our salary's ..not a problem,giving them more productivity (13 percent) what they are doing with our roster does not increase productivity it is designed to make our work/life balance so hard that we leave..that's what they want,they want temp staff and not people on a salary scale.he admitted this..how does the right to request a weekend off every 8 weeks result in less productivity?? we gave so so so much..enough is enough.

You obviously don't know enough about your company. EI made a loss last year, not a profit. You never answered my question, would you rather see the company go bust or accept the new terms?

Aviation is a forever changing industry and unfortunately EI seems to have hired people who do not realise this.

I worked for a major airline in the U.S. We had forever changing conditions and lost our benefits. Did we make a fuss, no. We were happy to still have a job in the difficult times the aviation sector has had to go through. The way I seen it was if you weren't happy, go elsewhere.

Look at other airlines, even Virgin Atlantic, their salary for their Heathrow and Gatwick crew are approx 14,000. How is Aer Lingus ever going to stay competitive unless it adopts what other airlines have done.

I have regularly flown ex Belfast recently with EI where crew are on the contract you DUB guys won't accept and in my opinion having flown out of both are a damn site better and more enthusiastic.

kevinmcc

And you say how the new conditions are impossible to work and will result in staff having to leave? Well then explain how EI crew on the new contract in Belfast have been there three years now, and they haven't recruited since they opened their base there. Seems like EI crew at DUB arent suited to be crew members then, perhaps they should be going for jobs where they don't have to be flexible.

cabincrew

kevinmcc wrote: »

You obviously don't know enough about your company. EI made a loss last year, not a profit. You never answered my question, would you rather see the company go bust or accept the new terms?

Aviation is a forever changing industry and unfortunately EI seems to have hired people who do not realise this.

I worked for a major airline in the U.S. We had forever changing conditions and lost our benefits. Did we make a fuss, no. We were happy to still have a job in the difficult times the aviation sector has had to go through. The way I seen it was if you weren't happy, go elsewhere.

Look at other airlines, even Virgin Atlantic, their salary for their Heathrow and Gatwick crew are approx 14,000. How is Aer Lingus ever going to stay competitive unless it adopts what other airlines have done.

I have regularly flown ex Belfast recently with EI where crew are on the contract you DUB guys won't accept and in my opinion having flown out of both are a damn site better and more enthusiastic.

that is where you are wrong,we made profit in the last half of the year,we have 900m in reserves..the lgw and bfs work very hard to i agree,but the dont work to the min eu ops flight hours as the baa have more restricted hours..and as they are based within the uk they can only operate to baa guidelines...Yes of course i want to see my company do well now and in the future but as i said before what they are doing with our rosters etc DOES NOT INCREASE PRODUCTIVITY what part of that dont you get?

cabincrew

kevinmcc wrote: »

And you say how the new conditions are impossible to work and will result in staff having to leave? Well then explain how EI crew on the new contract in Belfast have been there three years now, and they haven't recruited since they opened their base there. Seems like EI crew at DUB arent suited to be crew members then, perhaps they should be going for jobs where they don't have to be flexible.

we are flexible..
i missed my dads 60th birthday party because my duty was changed,i didnt moan about it i just accepted it, i base my life around my roster ie hosp appointments etc not the other way around like most people..how is asking for the right to request a weekend off every 8 weeks not being flexible,how is increasing our flying hours not being flexible,how is giving up a/l days not being flexible, how is doing them favors working days off etc not being flexible??it seems you are just ignorant to the fact that we can only give so much.

kevinmcc

cabincrew wrote: »

that is where you are wrong,we made profit in the last half of the year,we have 900m in reserves..the lgw and bfs work very hard to i agree,but the dont work to the min eu ops flight hours as the baa have more restricted hours..and as they are based within the uk they can only operate to baa guidelines...Yes of course i want to see my company do well now and in the future but as i said before what they are doing with our rosters etc DOES NOT INCREASE PRODUCTIVITY what part of that dont you get?

Are you sure you made a profit taking into account the disruption in the run up to Christmas? Yes 900m in reserves perhaps, but that's down quite a bit? First off it's the CAA, and no they can work up to 900 hours as outlined in their handbook so your incorrect. http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP371.PDF

kevinmcc

cabincrew wrote: »

we are flexible..
i missed my dads 60th birthday party because my duty was changed,i didnt moan about it i just accepted it, i base my life around my roster ie hosp appointments etc not the other way around like most people..how is asking for the right to request a weekend off every 8 weeks not being flexible,how is increasing our flying hours not being flexible,how is giving up a/l days not being flexible, how is doing them favors working days off etc not being flexible??it seems you are just ignorant to the fact that we can only give so much.

And these are the conditions!

All meal breaks removed from European flights. This means cabin crew can work shifts of up to 11 hours with no meal break. There was formerly an entitlement to a half-hour break after six hours duties.

(OK and we learned that this is untrue, but you do have to take staggered breaks, completely acceptable given it's due to being on a aircraft, see nothing wrong with this)

Double’: shifts where staff must work on flights out and back from a destination twice in a day. (eg: Dublin-London-Dublin-London-Dublin. These ‘doubles’ can also include other destinations of similar distance, eg, Paris; Amsterdam; Hamburg. The doubles mean a working day of up to 11 hours – and more if there are delays for any reason.

(So you can't fly DUB-LHR return twice why? It's still less than flying to New York, PLUS easyJet, Ryanair etc all send their crews on at least doubles if not 3 or 4 times)

Duties can be changed by 3 hours on the day of duty. Eg, you could come in to do a 7am flight to be told you are on a different flight departing up to three hours later – and can finish work three hours later than rostered. A nightmare if you have kids or other caring responsibilities.

("A nightmare if you have kids", so what do you guys do when the plane breaks down in Rome, or your rostered to go to the US? This condition again is acceptable, incase a colleague calls out sick and therefore they can insure that a plane does indeed leave, again industry standard, even for pilots, I once had pilots coming inbound to New York from London who were given two hours notice that they had to come to the airport to do a flight, they said this was industry standard. I'd seriously doubt it means they will indeed delay all crew every day by 3 hours :rolleyes:)

Similarly, duties can be changed by up to four hours the day before the rostered shift.

(What exactly does IMPACT mean by this?)

The existing right to request one weekend off duty every eight weeks is abolished under the new rosters.

(So your saying at the moment you only have one weekend off every 8 weeks, you've never had sometimes been rostered off more? I'd imagine they're not going to roster every single crew member on for the weekend)

The minimum of 8 rostered days off per month is reduced to 7.

(Probably the first thing which I can see as a condition, however this I'm sure you will agree is not a big deal for someone who is paid up to 38K plus 5K commission)

Cabin crew can be sent to work away from base for 26 days at a stretch. No such duty has yet been rostered, but there are big fears about how this would work in practice, particularly for those with childcare and other caring responsibilities.

(Yes you guys have answered this yourself, "no such duty has yet been rostered".)

The rest period on transatlantic flights has been halved from 24 to 12 hours. This means that staff can do the outward flight to, say, New York and then work the flight back to Ireland that evening.

(No you will not be doing the return flight, what it means is you may come in at like 6pm at night and have to fly out at 8am in the morning, if such flights existed, again this is standard. All my crews coming in from London to the East Coast have to do this. And anyway doesn't that mean you can all get home earlier to see to your childcare duties!)

kevinmcc

cabincrew wrote: »

it seems you are just ignorant to the fact that we can only give so much.

Really you can? Care to elaborate on how many times EI cabin crew have striked since you joined five years ago and for what reason every time? It's not like this is a one off. Sorry but you ain't got sympathy from anyone. Perhaps if you were living off the dole around 180 euro a week it would put those conditions into perspective for you.

!MAVERICK!

SIX PACK wrote: »

I should of flew Ryanair

Thats what everyone should consider doing.

jdivision

Seems one of the problems is they don't get to stay in New York for as long as they'd like

cabincrew

kevinmcc wrote: »

Really you can? Care to elaborate on how many times EI cabin crew have striked since you joined five years ago and for what reason every time? It's not like this is a one off. Sorry but you ain't got sympathy from anyone. Perhaps if you were living off the dole around 180 euro a week it would put those conditions into perspective for you.

Actually none! in my six years at EI i have never had a strike,we have however had numerous wage cuts just like the rest.and what?yes i am lucky to have a job but i am also entitled to have a work/life balance..most of the people on the dole where the very ones who wouldn't take a job in the public sector because all the money was to be made in the private sector..even when public sector was crying out for staff.greed got the better of people and as soon as their jobs are gone they send an army of hatred out to everyone that has a job.it was the same on the public sector when they were against some of their cuts...bunch of moaners etc etc..the people who are still in jobs are still entitled to reasonable terms of employment

cabincrew

kevinmcc wrote: »

And these are the conditions!

How can we take a staggered break on a 4 sector lhr? a flight that lasts 50 mins.we rarely get the time to even do duty free on those flights as its time to secure for landing as soon as u finish the service let alone sit down and digest a meal.

we rarely get a weekend off unless it was requested.i am entitled to attend a family event like the rest of the planet if i give my company two months
notice....how is that unreasonable?

don't compare eu carriers to that of us carriers..there safety record says it all...i agree look at how us crew are treated? maybe that is why most of their customer service skills don't exist.

most of the crew with young children work the eu flights so that they are home for their kids they are not jet setting off to nyc as you like to put it.

When flights get delayed yes we have to except we,ll be home late and we do.they are once in a blue moon..not every day of the week.

OPENROAD

cabincrew wrote: »

How can we take a staggered break on a 4 sector lhr? a flight that lasts 50 mins.we rarely get the time to even do duty free on those flights as its time to secure for landing as soon as u finish the service let alone sit down and digest a meal.

we rarely get a weekend off unless it was requested.i am entitled to attend a family event like the rest of the planet if i give my company two months
notice....how is that unreasonable?

don't compare eu carriers to that of us carriers..there safety record says it all...i agree look at how us crew are treated? maybe that is why most of their customer service skills don't exist.

most of the crew with young children work the eu flights so that they are home for their kids they are not jet setting off to nyc as you like to put it.

When flights get delayed yes we have to except we,ll be home late and we do.they are once in a blue moon..not every day of the week.

Are Aer Lingus doing duty free/shopping now on LHR :eek:

kevinmcc

cabincrew wrote: »

Actually none! in my six years at EI i have never had a strike,we have however had numerous wage cuts just like the rest.and what?yes i am lucky to have a job but i am also entitled to have a work/life balance..most of the people on the dole where the very ones who wouldn't take a job in the public sector because all the money was to be made in the private sector..even when public sector was crying out for staff.greed got the better of people and as soon as their jobs are gone they send an army of hatred out to everyone that has a job.it was the same on the public sector when they were against some of their cuts...bunch of moaners etc etc..the people who are still in jobs are still entitled to reasonable terms of employment

So you've never had a strike or threatened any strikes? Plenty of people would take a job at Aer Lingus, there was no shortage of applicants for CC. I agree reasonable terms of employment, and as I said your colleagues at Gatwick and Belfast are doing well on the new terms of employment, where they can work 850 hours on revised terms.

So tell me why can't an Aer Lingus crew member do a double run to LHR, which say they left at 9am on the EI156, all going to schedule would be back at DUB at 4.35pm from their second round trip. That's what no longer than what it takes to go to New York, so what's so unfair about this?

cabincrew

jdivision wrote: »

Seems one of the problems is they don't get to stay in New York for as long as they'd like

We are entiltled to rest just like everyone else.if we were to operate with 12hrs gap betwwen a return nyc leg we would be lucky to get 6hrs sleep and that would mean us we would be going across the atlantic during our wocl(window of circadian low) defo not a good idea for your captain and first officer.

FlutterinBantam

Lot of 'one hit wonders' on this thread.


Doing yourselves no favours lads and lassies.

kevinmcc

cabincrew wrote: »

don't compare eu carriers to that of us carriers..there safety record says it all...i agree look at how us crew are treated? maybe that is why most of their customer service skills don't exist.

Perhaps but I didn't say it was a US airline, I worked in the US for them, but infact they are an EU airline. However US carriers safety record, not sure who your talking about? All the majors, Continental, United, Delta, US Airways, American, JetBlue, Southwest, Virgin America all have excellent safety.

kevinmcc

cabincrew wrote: »

How can we take a staggered break on a 4 sector lhr? a flight that lasts 50 mins.we rarely get the time to even do duty free on those flights as its time to secure for landing as soon as u finish the service let alone sit down and digest a meal.

So you need a huge meal between 9am and 4.35pm? Funny how when I taken the BFS-LHR routes I see crew having time to grab something quickly.

Don't even talk to me about crew. Everyday in New York when the crew would arrive from their hotel, before they would board they would have a cup of tea and sandwich on board, during their time for doing security checks! I'd doubt EI staff would be any different!

kevinmcc

OPENROAD wrote: »

Are Aer Lingus doing duty free/shopping now on LHR :eek:

Not cigarettes or alcohol. Just gifts which no-one buys. Basically the crew just have to push the cart up and down, takes on average 2 minutes on any flight i've been on.

cabincrew

kevinmcc wrote: »

So you've never had a strike or threatened any strikes? Plenty of people would take a job at Aer Lingus, there was no shortage of applicants for CC. I agree reasonable terms of employment, and as I said your colleagues at Gatwick and Belfast are doing well on the new terms of employment, where they can work 850 hours on revised terms.

So tell me why can't an Aer Lingus crew member do a double run to LHR, which say they left at 9am on the EI156, all going to schedule would be back at DUB at 4.35pm from their second round trip. That's what no longer than what it takes to go to New York, so what's so unfair about this?

WE have always done the double shifts,you see,you really dont know what you are talking about and that is a 9 and half hour day(you have to account for taxi time and turnaround time..it makes up a nine and a half hour day min.we have always done the 4sector lhrs but we took our meal break on 3rd sector as the flts so busy you wouldn't get the chance for your meal in the the air on a 50min flight.the problem is the company want us to take our breaks in the air and not have the 30min meal break on 3sector...but how the hell can we do that on a 50 min flight when we have safety and customers obligations to carry out.WE have no problem doing the doubles we've always done them we have a problem with them taking away our official break..30mins isnt much considering someone on 9-5 gets an hour and a half.

OPENROAD

cabincrew wrote: »

look at how us crew are treated? maybe that is why most of their customer service skills don't exist.

.

Surprised to hear that, want to expand?

OPENROAD

kevinmcc wrote: »

Not cigarettes or alcohol. Just gifts which no-one buys. Basically the crew just have to push the cart up and down, takes on average 2 minutes on any flight i've been on.

Had a feeling it was that, on British Midland, have heard them making the rare announcement that gifts are available to purchase and to check in your Voyager magazine for a list of items and prices and if you want something press the bell.

cabincrew

kevinmcc wrote: »

So you need a huge meal between 9am and 4.35pm? Funny how when I taken the BFS-LHR routes I see crew having time to grab something quickly.

Don't even talk to me about crew. Everyday in New York when the crew would arrive from their hotel, before they would board they would have a cup of tea and sandwich on board, during their time for doing security checks! I'd doubt EI staff would be any different!

We are entitled to a break clear of all duty at some point in our working day.

we board aircraft in nyc 1hr before departure,our briefing is tens mins,pdi and security check and meal count 10mins and we board the aircraft with passengers minus 40...I don't doubt for a second that some airlines get to have a cup of tea and a sandwich before they need to board the aircraft but our thankfully our customers come before a sandwich and cup of tea.Hard to believe for you no doubt.

kevinmcc

cabincrew wrote: »

WE have always done the double shifts,you see,you really dont know what you are talking about and that is a 9 and half hour day(you have to account for taxi time and turnaround time..it makes up a nine and a half hour day min.we have always done the 4sector lhrs but we took our meal break on 3rd sector as the flts so busy you wouldn't get the chance for your meal in the the air on a 50min flight.the problem is the company want us to take our breaks in the air and not have the 30min meal break on 3sector...but how the hell can we do that on a 50 min flight when we have safety and customers obligations to carry out.WE have no problem doing the doubles we've always done them we have a problem with them taking away our official break..30mins isnt much considering someone on 9-5 gets an hour and a half.

9 and a half hours! Can't you count, let me explain:

EI 156 Departs DUB 9.00 Arrives LHR 10:20
EI 157 Departs LHR 11:05 Arrives DUB 12:25
EI 164 Departs DUB 13:15 Arrives LHR 14:35
EI 165 Departs LHR 15:20 Arrives DUB 16:35

SO how does this equate to 9 and a half hours seeing as it includes taxiing and turnaround? Just another lie from you.

OK well the double shifts was given as one of the new conditions by your union IMPACT so perhaps take it up with them rather than telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about as this is the condition which they gave below:

Double’: shifts where staff must work on flights out and back from a destination twice in a day. (eg: Dublin-London-Dublin-London-Dublin. These ‘doubles’ can also include other destinations of similar distance, eg, Paris; Amsterdam; Hamburg. The doubles mean a working day of up to 11 hours – and more if there are delays for any reason.

Anyway I don't know what your problem is but your feeding wrong information into this thread constantly.

cabincrew

kevinmcc wrote: »

Perhaps but I didn't say it was a US airline, I worked in the US for them, but infact they are an EU airline. However US carriers safety record, not sure who your talking about? All the majors, Continental, United, Delta, US Airways, American, JetBlue, Southwest, Virgin America all have excellent safety.

ALL but one have had at least two fatal crashes...that at eu standards does not warrant an excellent safety record..and to be eating a sandwich while doing a security check is a disgrace.

kevinmcc

cabincrew wrote: »

ALL but one have had at least two fatal crashes...that at eu standards does not warrant an excellent safety record..and to be eating a sandwich while doing a security check is a disgrace.

No they done their security check, but still had time to have a sandwich and drink tea during the 10-15 min briefing. But then you guys are so good you wouldn't do such a thing during your briefing.

All but one have had a fatal crash? Care to elaborate? Virgin America haven't had any. jetBlue haven't either. Continental involved Colgan Air, so it wasn't them. OK should I go on with the rest or do you agree your WRONG with counting it as one?

cabincrew

kevinmcc wrote: »

9 and a half hours! Can't you count, let me explain:

EI 156 Departs DUB 9.00 Arrives LHR 10:20
EI 157 Departs LHR 11:05 Arrives DUB 12:25
EI 164 Departs DUB 13:15 Arrives LHR 14:35
EI 165 Departs LHR 15:20 Arrives DUB 16:35

SO how does this equate to 9 and a half hours seeing as it includes taxiing and turnaround? Just another lie from you.

OK well the double shifts was given as one of the new conditions by your union IMPACT so perhaps take it up with them rather than telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about as this is the condition which they gave below:


Anyway I don't know what your problem is but your feeding wrong information into this thread constantly.

the flights u gave that time are over nights and we dont double up on them..they usually start at midday landing home at 840 plus custom clearence 9pm just because we operate lets say 167 doesnt mean its going to be the 168 home it could be the flight after etc etc.

the doubles we have the problem with is the new eu one they brought in..they are dub-paris-dub-ams-dub they check in at 5 or 6am and land home between 4 and 5 pm..they are only just a legal duty because they removed our 30min meal break on the 3rd sector..had they of left it in then it would be breaking eu law.we never agreed to that.

cabincrew

kevinmcc wrote: »

No they done their security check, but still had time to have a sandwich and drink tea during the 10-15 min briefing. But then you guys are so good you wouldn't do such a thing during your briefing.

All but one have had a fatal crash? Care to elaborate? Virgin America haven't had any. jetBlue haven't either. Continental involved Colgan Air, so it wasn't them. OK should I go on with the rest or do you agree your WRONG with counting
it as one?

Are you serious? eat a sandwich while having your briefing?i,d quit while your ahead,i am horrified that crew would do that.we would be in serious breach of our contracts if we did that so again that must come as a surprise for you.

don't you watch air crash investigation? that program wouldn't exist if it weren't for us carriers

kevinmcc

cabincrew wrote: »

the flights u gave that time are over nights and we dont double up on them..they usually start at midday landing home at 840 plus custom clearence 9pm just because we operate lets say 167 doesnt mean its going to be the 168 home it could be the flight after etc etc.

the doubles we have the problem with is the new eu one they brought in..they are dub-paris-dub-ams-dub they check in at 5 or 6am and land home between 4 and 5 pm..they are only just a legal duty because they removed our 30min meal break on the 3rd sector..had they of left it in then it would be breaking eu law.we never agreed to that.

Yes you do operate the 168 right after the 167, there's a 45 minute turnaround at LHR on EI, can't believe you don't even know this. And those flights aren't overnight. What are you talking about custom clearance for LHR flights?

OK so you complain that you can't have time to eat on a double LHR, so plenty of time to have a sandwich and a cup of tea on an EU route, so what's your problem? EI Management have said countless times that you will not be working 11 hours without a break so stop with the bull.

kevinmcc

cabincrew wrote: »

We are entiltled to rest just like everyone else.if we were to operate with 12hrs gap betwwen a return nyc leg we would be lucky to get 6hrs sleep and that would mean us we would be going across the atlantic during our wocl(window of circadian low) defo not a good idea for your captain and first officer.

Yes Pilots have different rest times from crew, that's not the issue. And furthermore your rest time begins from the moment you get to the hotel. 12 hours in a hotel is plenty. Don't you have childcare responsibilites to get back to anyway, like your colleagues?

kevinmcc

OPENROAD wrote: »

Surprised to hear that, want to expand?

The poster can't expand, they're making it up as they go along :rolleyes:

Micky Dolenz

Careful now.

cabincrew

kevinmcc wrote: »

Yes you do operate the 168 right after the 167, there's a 45 minute turnaround at LHR on EI, can't believe you don't even know this. And those flights aren't overnight. What are you talking about custom clearance for LHR flights?

OK so you complain that you can't have time to eat on a double LHR, so plenty of time to have a sandwich and a cup of tea on an EU route, so what's your problem? EI Management have said countless times that you will not be working 11 hours without a break so stop with the bull.

that was an 'example' our double lhr are at miday..custom clearance happens every time you land and are going home for god sake...your thinking immigration clearance..just because u may only have been to lhr u still have to clear customs!!!!!!there is no bull...we don't get a break anymore..get it...i am entitled to eat my food in peace just like everyone else.we agreed to 850hours but not everything else.

cabincrew

kevinmcc wrote: »

Yes Pilots have different rest times from crew, that's not the issue. And furthermore your rest time begins from the moment you get to the hotel. 12 hours in a hotel is plenty. Don't you have childcare responsibilites to get back to anyway, like your colleagues?

IF We are only getting 12 hours then thats all the pilots would get..what ..u think they will find 2 other pilots to fly us home??get a grip...and no you are wrong yet again..our rest begins 20mins after the aircraft shuts engines down...no matter what.even if there is a big delay getting passengers off.i may not have childcare responsibilities but i have a life.

kevinmcc

cabincrew wrote: »

that was an 'example' our double lhr are at miday..custom clearance happens every time you land and are going home for god sake...your thinking immigration clearance..just because u may only have been to lhr u still have to clear customs!!!!!!there is no bull...we don't get a break anymore..get it...i am entitled to eat my food in peace just like everyone else.we agreed to 850hours but not everything else.

I know what customs are but I don't understand what you mean about landing at 8.40 and customs being 9pm. Are you saying it takes you 20 minutes to clear customs?

You don't get a break, but you do get to eat? What about the down time whilst taxiing and take off, it's not like your busy then? What about a longer EU flight which is 3-4 hours in duration opposed to just 1 to LHR, do you do the food service over and over or what is it you do for the extra 2-3 hours each way?

cabincrew

OPENROAD wrote: »

Surprised to hear that, want to expand?

I am sorry i will not expand because this is not a cat fight like some people seem to think on this forum,i just wanted to point out that you cannot compare an eu carrier to a us carrier,they are under the faa and we are under eu ops

kevinmcc

cabincrew wrote: »

I am sorry i will not expand because this is not a cat fight like some people seem to think on this forum,i just wanted to point out that you cannot compare an eu carrier to a us carrier,they are under the faa and we are under eu ops

Not true, any US carrier who flies into europe will have to abide by eu also.

cabincrew

kevinmcc wrote: »

I know what customs are but I don't understand what you mean about landing at 8.40 and customs being 9pm. Are you saying it takes you 20 minutes to clear customs?

You don't get a break, but you do get to eat? What about the down time whilst taxiing and take off, it's not like your busy then? What about a longer EU flight which is 3-4 hours in duration opposed to just 1 to LHR, do you do the food service over and over or what is it you do for the extra 2-3 hours each way?

we land at 840 it takes 10 mins to disembark people and ten mins to customs

a flight to ace or tfs you are flat out and any amount of sitting down on them is short lived.and 100 percent not for 30mins,they are duty free flights and they do be so busy.what harm is it to take 30mins on the ground anyway?the aircraft is being cleaned and refueled at that stage anyway.

kevinmcc

cabincrew wrote: »

we land at 840 it takes 10 mins to disembark people and ten mins to customs

a flight to ace or tfs you are flat out and any amount of sitting down on them is short lived.and 100 percent not for 30mins,they are duty free flights and they do be so busy.what harm is it to take 30mins on the ground anyway?the aircraft is being cleaned and refueled at that stage anyway.

I wouldn't have thought duty free would be busy both segments. sure even if you get 15 mins over and 15 mins back it ain't bad.

cabincrew

kevinmcc wrote: »

Not true, any US carrier who flies into europe will have to abide by eu also.

NO AGAIN YOU ARE WRONG,us carriers do not have to comply with eu ops flight time limitations and likewise...

cabincrew

kevinmcc wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought duty free would be busy both segments. sure even if you get 15 mins over and 15 mins back it ain't bad.

again you cant compare everything to your experience,any irish person who has gone to either destination would agree.

kevinmcc

cabincrew wrote: »

NO AGAIN YOU ARE WRONG,us carriers do not have to comply with eu ops flight time limitations and likewise...

I didn't mention flight time limitations, in regards to passengers they have to comply with EU Passenger Rights.

ilovebiccies

guys....have been reading the last thirty pages of comments because i cannot sleep and basically have nothing better to do.:o
i am not in the airline/aviation industry but am def beginning to side with the cabin crew. they dont seem to be getting too much media coverage with all the governmental issues at the mo but from what i am gathering this is sooo much more than people saying its all about a break for a sandwich. i am sure unless we are cabin crew at the moment we have no idea what the fight is really about. a girl in my estate works for them and i heard her chatting in the shop the other day. she took her meal break....met by her managers to be told she was taken off rosters and the following night at 10 o clock there was a courier knocking on her door to deliver the first of two letters telling her she was suspended and taken off the payroll.(god i sound really nosy!) i know there are two sides to every story and am sure its difficult fight any management but in fairness surely they have to stand up for themselves. if aer lingus get away with treating staff like this surely as someone else has already stated that it paves the way for other large companies to follow suit. i know there is a recession...lord god i know...both myself and my husband have been victims of it....but companies def seem to be taking total advantage and bullying the employers into so many different paycuts and working conditions. anyhow...i was not going to comment on this topic as i really dont know enough aboout the situation but mandy.......seriously..were you let go from the company or did you leave?..you sound so terribly angry and bitter and just cant let up on the conversation. whats the job so perfect and brill that you went and go yourself?...every job is honourable no matter what it is and nobody should put anyone down..its just wrong. i doubt ou do still have friends in the company...or if you do your not a very good friend as you should be backing them and supporting them....do they know all the horrible negative comments yu have put on this...i would imagine the answer is no. this has been going on since last monday........getting dragged out by now..which makes me think the crew or union may just be right....surely if the company were right they wouldn have let it continue this long? sorry for the rant.......

kevinmcc

Impact has asked the Data Protection Commissioner to carry out an investigation into Aer Lingus on the basis that the company had provided personal details, including mobile phone numbers, to a courier company it hired to deliver the letters to its staff

This just goes to show the pettyness of IMPACT. Does this mean I should contact the Data Commissioner because my employer sent me a letter and included a number so the courier could call me if they needed directions?

EI Management seem to be not backing down, and I do hope they win this. Totally fed up seeing Aer Lingus being ruined by staff threatening strikes every single year.

ilovebiccies

not getting involved in tit for tat....was sitting on the fence really until i just couldn get over the mandy30 comments. i know everyone entitled to opinions but she just was coming across bitter and twisted. anyhow...we both are lucky enough to be in jobs in this household and i am ashamed to say i am not very familiar with all these employment and equality laws and whatever else there seems to be. the thing with the data protection too....surely you cannot give out an employees detials without them giving the go ahead. i know for one i would be very angry if my employer gave my number out. howeer i hope i never have to get letters like those ones from him!! what ever happened to an post....can they not just use that service?

kevinmcc

ilovebiccies wrote: »

not getting involved in tit for tat....was sitting on the fence really until i just couldn get over the mandy30 comments. i know everyone entitled to opinions but she just was coming across bitter and twisted. anyhow...we both are lucky enough to be in jobs in this household and i am ashamed to say i am not very familiar with all these employment and equality laws and whatever else there seems to be. the thing with the data protection too....surely you cannot give out an employees detials without them giving the go ahead. i know for one i would be very angry if my employer gave my number out. howeer i hope i never have to get letters like those ones from him!! what ever happened to an post....can they not just use that service?

As far as I'm aware they used courier as it was going to staff who had been taken off the payroll and was urgent. They didn't give out employee details. Of course the letter had the persons address like any mail does and a contact number.

It's not like they gave the courier the letter without it being sealed!

cabincrew

ilovebiccies wrote: »

guys....have been reading the last thirty pages of comments because i cannot sleep and basically have nothing better to do.:o
i am not in the airline/aviation industry but am def beginning to side with the cabin crew. they dont seem to be getting too much media coverage with all the governmental issues at the mo but from what i am gathering this is sooo much more than people saying its all about a break for a sandwich. i am sure unless we are cabin crew at the moment we have no idea what the fight is really about. a girl in my estate works for them and i heard her chatting in the shop the other day. she took her meal break....met by her managers to be told she was taken off rosters and the following night at 10 o clock there was a courier knocking on her door to deliver the first of two letters telling her she was suspended and taken off the payroll.(god i sound really nosy!) i know there are two sides to every story and am sure its difficult fight any management but in fairness surely they have to stand up for themselves. if aer lingus get away with treating staff like this surely as someone else has already stated that it paves the way for other large companies to follow suit. i know there is a recession...lord god i know...both myself and my husband have been victims of it....but companies def seem to be taking total advantage and bullying the employers into so many different paycuts and working conditions. anyhow...i was not going to comment on this topic as i really dont know enough aboout the situation but mandy.......seriously..were you let go from the company or did you leave?..you sound so terribly angry and bitter and just cant let up on the conversation. whats the job so perfect and brill that you went and go yourself?...every job is honourable no matter what it is and nobody should put anyone down..its just wrong. i doubt ou do still have friends in the company...or if you do your not a very good friend as you should be backing them and supporting them....do they know all the horrible negative comments yu have put on this...i would imagine the answer is no. this has been going on since last monday........getting dragged out by now..which makes me think the crew or union may just be right....surely if the company were right they wouldn have let it continue this long? sorry for the rant.......

Thank you very much for your support,i cant even begin to argue the point with these people and as my boyfriend says..i shouldn't even try..you are right in saying cabin crew took their meal break that they were entitled to and then got suspended(even thou the flight landed on time or early).Mr muller said last year that he didn't want anyone making a career out of this.an insult to the many with 20 or more years dedicated to aerlingus..it is clear that what he is trying to do is make our jobs so unbearable that we will leave.then he can get the temps in and let them go after 9months for a day and continue that trend..so to all those who want to see that happen guess what...it wont..we are stronger than ever before because of the way we have been treated and we will do everything possible to secure reasonable terms and conditions of employment for ourselves and our colleagues