Rural Broadband Scheme - When?

culdaffguy

What is the hold up with the Rural Broadband Scheme, Eamon Ryan was quoted as saying last year that it would be announced before the end of the year, now the New Year, now the coming weeks, when, when, when will it be?!

trekkypj

Won't be Eamon. My guess is that you'll have to wait for his successor.. After the 11th March, I guess.

clohamon

culdaffguy wrote: »

What is the hold up with the Rural Broadband Scheme, Eamon Ryan was quoted as saying last year that it would be announced before the end of the year, now the New Year, now the coming weeks, when, when, when will it be?!

The scheme is not due to start installations until the end of this year and is not due for completion until the end of 2012. Its already a mess.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69559263&postcount=36

bealtine

culdaffguy wrote: »

What is the hold up with the Rural Broadband Scheme, Eamon Ryan was quoted as saying last year that it would be announced before the end of the year, now the New Year, now the coming weeks, when, when, when will it be?!

I'd guess it will be shelved as it was badly conceived, as usual it was just an excuse to roll out satellite service across the country.
So hopefully an incoming government will dump the scheme and replace it with something more realistic.

cpio

It wasn't shelved. See http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/rbs for more details.

clohamon

cpio wrote: »

It wasn't shelved. See http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/rbs for more details.

There are still unanswered questions; principally who decides whether any existing service is acceptable.The department's view of broadband includes all 3G MNOs. Their networks will have developed a bit since 2008 when the NBS area was scoped out, so anybody who can get a 3G signal at their home from any of the mobile providers could be excluded and left with one option - paying full whack on satellite.


Beware!
The department liberally uses the word "broadband" in the scheme document but describes its own offer in phase 3 as a "basic internet service". On past form that could mean absolutely anything. The press release says this:-

While the details of the service and the level of infrastructure subsidy will be established in the procurement process, it is intended that the service provided under the scheme will be at least comparable to the service provided under the NBS.

In just money terms the NBS has to be better for satellite, as it subsidizes installation and caps monthly charges until July 2014. The RBS offers a subsidy for installation only and may also require a connection fee.

The data protection section will bring a smile to the face of "Bird & Fortune" fans.

Data Protection

In order to (sic) for the Scheme to operate successfully, it will be necessary to give
an applicant’s details (Name, address and phone number) to service providers
to assess whether they can offer you a service. You will not be contacted by
service providers participating in the scheme unless you give your prior written permission.

It will not be possible to accept an application under the scheme without
being able to allow service providers to contact you.

As if that wasn't silly enough, the application form does not even give permission for providers to contact you, it only gives permission for your details to be passed to them.

The overall effect of this scheme is that since it was announced in mid 2009 rural residents have been encouraged to postpone either community broadband action or acting on their own initiative, on the promise of a scheme that has still not been technically specified, will not be subsidized beyond installation, and will not be delivered until the end of 2012.

watty

This new Rural Broadband scheme is a Con.

It will not provide a single BB connection. It's only to sell a few Satellite terminals.

Shame on Rabbitte simply filling Ryan's shoes.

clohamon

http://www.inishowennews.com/011Broadband210.htm

Broadband blackspots could miss out.
INISHOWEN homes with poor internet connections could be left out of the national Rural Broadband Scheme, according to Charlie McConalogue TD.
He said the new initiative appears to apply only to homes and businesses with no internet access whatsoever. However, the local deputy, who lives in the broadband blackspot of Gleneely-Culdaff, said many families here will lose out.
"There appears to be a gaping hole in this initiative as it looks like it only applies to homes and businesses which currently have no internet access whatsoever. That means that people with extremely limited broadband coverage are not eligible to upgrade to a minimum level under the scheme.
“There are many homes and local businesses in Donegal that technically have access to broadband at the moment, but the service is so slow that it’s not usable. I find it incredulous and unacceptable that these people seem to be left out of the Rural Broadband Scheme," said Deputy MacConalogue.
He called on the Minister for Communications, Pat Rabbitte, to clarify the position for those who currently poor broadband.
"My concern is that this scheme will be last of its kind, as the Government will feel it has given the impression that the job is done. But I will not let this issue lie.
"There is an urgent need for every single person here in Donegal and across the country to have access to a reasonable and useable broadband service, and those who currently don’t have this must be included in the current initiative," he added.

watty

Like maybe 25% or more of 3G users nationwide?

culdaffguy

Broadband blackspots could miss out.
INISHOWEN homes with poor internet connections could be left out of the national Rural Broadband Scheme, according to Charlie McConalogue TD.
He said the new initiative appears to apply only to homes and businesses with no internet access whatsoever. However, the local deputy, who lives in the broadband blackspot of Gleneely-Culdaff, said many families here will lose out.
"There appears to be a gaping hole in this initiative as it looks like it only applies to homes and businesses which currently have no internet access whatsoever. That means that people with extremely limited broadband coverage are not eligible to upgrade to a minimum level under the scheme.
“There are many homes and local businesses in Donegal that technically have access to broadband at the moment, but the service is so slow that it’s not usable. I find it incredulous and unacceptable that these people seem to be left out of the Rural Broadband Scheme," said Deputy MacConalogue.
He called on the Minister for Communications, Pat Rabbitte, to clarify the position for those who currently poor broadband.
"My concern is that this scheme will be last of its kind, as the Government will feel it has given the impression that the job is done. But I will not let this issue lie.
"There is an urgent need for every single person here in Donegal and across the country to have access to a reasonable and useable broadband service, and those who currently don’t have this must be included in the current initiative," he added.

A bit rich of Charlie McConalogue to be coming out with such statements about the broadband situation here, seeing as he is part of the Fianna Fail party who implemented the NBS and set out the RBS.

lucernarian

culdaffguy wrote: »

A bit rich of Charlie McConalogue to be coming out with such statements about the broadband situation here, seeing as he is part of the Fianna Fail party who implemented the NBS and set out the RBS.

It's also a bit rich to single out any one party when the Green minister's boots of failure look like they're being filled quite admirably by a Labour minister who is even less interested in his brief and more interested in talking about financial policy matters than his predecessor. Until the media start roundly castigating the civil service for their incompetent actions, most politicians will think it's okay and indeed will feel compelled to follow the guidance of their "advisors".

That aside, Mr. McConalogue is certainly changing his tune since FF left office. It's not long ago when he was praising the NBS and it's supposed provision of broadband to Inishowen, primarily the northwestern half. This recent statement of his is essentially correct by itself, but he's a hypocrite for saying it. It's easy for him to criticise what he previously supported when he says yes sir, no sir and three bags full sir to FF HQ up to and including making an ass of himself just to criticise the current govt while not also criticising FF's previous actions.

bealtine

[QUOTE=To_be_confirmed;72245163he says yes sir, no sir and three bags full sir to FF HQ up to and including making an ass of himself just to criticise the current govt while not also criticising FF's previous actions.[/QUOTE]

This Minister has released statements that are word for word the same as Ryans statements so there's no change in policy just different names on the nonsense.

FF can't be taken seriously (but then can any of them?) if they can't see that this is their own policy they are criticising now.

clohamon

It is important to point out that the eventual total cost of the Scheme will be determined by the final number of eligible applicants. Whatever portion of the allocation that remains unspent following the completion of the Scheme will be returned to the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food for expenditure on its rural development programmes.

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2011-06-08.1097.0&s=%22Telecommunications+Services.%22

Assuming they get a reasonable deal on the installs (say 20% discount; thats €400 each) and take out say €500k to run the scheme, that leaves enough money to do 43,460 homes and businesses. ((17.884M - 0.5M) / 400)

The big question is the number of applications actually received and how many of those that will be met by existing services. The highest estimate so far is 25,000* - that is the number that DCENR gave to the European Commission - so it looks like nearly half of the money earmarked for broadband will be handed back to DAFF for other rural programs.

Given the low level of overall subsidy, the connection fee, and the hoops and delays that applicants have to go through, the actual take-up might be very low. A cynic might say that this scheme was designed primarily to screw free cash out of the EU.


* 25,000 this was the number that DCENR gave to the EU Commission. The figure that they gave to the public and TDs in the Dail was 12,000.

watty

There is only enough new Satellite capacity for about 1,500 (or 5,000) users at 50:1 contention adding Hylas1 and Ka-Sat, assuming a 10Mbps (or 3Mbps) connection.

Older satellite capacity is near exhausted and close to 500:1 contention in many cases. So yes this scheme is garbage.

clohamon

Only three weeks to go.

“To-date, we have had over 2000 applications under the Scheme and my Department will be accepting further applications until the 29th of July, when the application phase of the Scheme will close. I would encourage people to apply under the Scheme if they cannot currently obtain a service”.

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/Rural+Broadband+Scheme+Progress+Update.htm

Has anyone seen any advertising for this scheme?

clohamon

Charlie McConalogue TD asks some more questions.

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2011-07-12.1502.0&s=%22Telecommunications+Services.%22

• No advertising for this scheme has been carried out.
• A user receiving, or capable of receiving an existing service, no matter how bad in practice (<0.3Mb/s download), will be excluded from the RBS scheme and any complaint/disappointment about the existing service will have to be taken up with the provider first and then Comreg.

Given that there's nearly €18M in the budget for this scheme, it should be possible (even now) to organise a mailshot to contact potential applicants. As it is, it looks like most (80% +) of this EU grant will be going back to the Department of Agriculture Fisheries and Food for other programs.

watty

Why bother advertising it when it doesn't give anyone Broadband?

It's a stupid scheme. Just as NBS is/was.

clohamon

watty wrote: »

Why bother advertising it when it doesn't give anyone Broadband?

It's a stupid scheme. Just as NBS is/was.

Sure, but it might get some people something, even if its just very expensive entry level satellite.

I was really pointing to how odd it was to get €18M together for a scheme - mostly EU money - and then do nearly everything possible to make sure no one applies for it.

watty

Satellite Internet is a very limited resource. The fewer people that have it the better it works.

2,000 real users would just about use the entire capacity. If the number of people that really need Broadband and can't get it signed up then the performance would be worse than basic ISDN.

One street cabinet has more capacity than the entire combined capacity of all Satellites available to Irish customers.

clohamon

Seamus Boland of Irish Rural Link was quoted by RTE Morning Ireland (05/07/2011) as having said that the RBS "was one of the department's best kept secrets". He then came on the line to explain the scheme.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0705/morningireland.html (audio)

Later that day Pat Rabbitte was talking to a Dail Committee about privatising postal services and the Minister took time out to have lash at RTE.

I accept, as Deputy Ó Cuív says, that some of the people we are talking about may be of advanced years and may not be familiar with computers. In that regard, I heard “Morning Ireland” this morning accusing me of keeping the rural broadband scheme, which I announced in May, a secret. Putting something on one’s website and issuing a press release is an unusual way to keep a secret. It was obviously a secret from RTE.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/AG1/2011/07/05/00004.asp


Using the internet to promote a scheme to people who, by definition, have non-existent or bad internet connections is strange indeed. As for the press release, it is essentially a passive exercise and relies entirely on the media to show an interest in the issue and give it prominence.

thebman

clohamon wrote: »

Using the internet to promote a scheme to people who, by definition, have non-existent or bad internet connections is strange indeed. As for the press release, it is essentially a passive exercise and relies entirely on the media to show an interest in the issue and give it prominence.

Or for the Minister's department to let the news sources know they have released a press release... and preferably not do so on a day with more juicy news about the Euro/IMF etc...

The Minister has been quite quiet since taking over his brief (yet was quite vocal in opposition). One might wonder if he holds a new world record for becoming institutionalized into his new surroundings.

It would be worthwhile for IO to do such a survey to calculate the top 10 Irish websites average page weights from sample pages and calculate how long it is taking the average broadband connection, the worst and the best in the country to access the most commonly accessed websites.

cgarvey

thebman wrote: »

It would be worthwhile for IO to do such a survey

Very subjective though, and wouldn't hold up to any sort of meaningful analysis. For example, a logged out / new visitor to Google.ie is about 138KB, but a logged in user with some sort of background photo set is ~400KB. But then, take in to account that most of the assets will be cached.

Then, decide what's the average URL visited on Facebook (and the additional page size for those with a higher than average friend count). Should an average visitor to RTE.ie include some video download?

Finally, what's an average broadband connection / speed?! All very subjective (even if you can agree on what should be considered average).

Meaningful surveys, in my opinion, would be user satisfaction and technical performance. The former IO could do; the latter doesn't sound very feasible. The former is no small undertaking, and would need thousands of respondents across various groupings (technical ones such as connection type & speed, and demographic ones alike).

clohamon

MCCONALOGUE SLAMS MINISTER’S REFUSAL TO EXTEND RURAL BROADBAND SCHEME August 31, 2011

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2011/08/31/mcconalogue-slams-ministers-refusal-to-extend-rural-broadband-scheme/

Donegal TD Charlie McConalogue has expressed his disappointment with Minister for Communication’s refusal to extend the deadline of the Rural Broadband Scheme.
Deputy McConalogue said the Minister is completely underestimating the importance of broadband for counties like Donegal.
"It is very disappointing that Minister Pat Rabbitte is not willing to extend the deadline for the Rural Broadband Scheme. I believe he is underestimating the importance of broadband services to those living in rural areas.
“The Rural Broadband Scheme was poorly advertised and as a result, many people living in rural communities had no idea if they were entitled to apply or when the deadline was.
“I outlined these concerns in full to Minister Rabbitte. I suggested that the Minister extend the scheme to facilitate further applications while continuing to process existing applications.
“However when I put this solution to the Minister, he refused to make any move to extend the deadline," he revealed.
The Inishowen TD said he was now asking the Minister to outline how the scheme will work in practice and to confirm that there will be a minimum standard of broadband speed for all users of the scheme.
“I believe that there will still be several households that remain without access to broadband after the scheme is implemented. In this event, I am asking Minister Rabbitte to clarify what measures he will be put in place to address this problem.
“In order to achieve true nationwide broadband, we should have an ongoing broadband scheme that people can continue to apply for. In a digital age, it is important that all households regardless of their location have access to reliable broadband services.”