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Dublin West General Election 2011 [Mod note post #218]
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. In fairness, there is at least one longer-term poster campaigning steadily on this thread for him posting again this morning (futile in the long run if you ask me).
I can do/think/say/argue what ever I like as long as it's balanced and fair and not completely one sided and the mod's have surely checked back on me and they too agreed.
I can have any view I like.
Your problem is this - you hate that someone express's an alternative view to you. I know Fianna Fail are largely responsible for the mess this country is in, only a fool would say otherwise. Specifically the parliamentary party, cabinet etc. The majority of which haven't the bottle to face the electorate again and good riddance to them.
DAVID MCGUINNESS has had not hand, act or part but perhaps his running mate cannot say as much. I can think for myself and I am no sheep; I don't need to follow the consensus, narrative or opinion many people have.
PS: I hate RTE but I don't hate Charlie Bird
Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. YYYEEEEESSSSSS 
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chucknorris wrote: »I can do/think/say/argue what ever I like as long as it's balanced and fair and not completely one sided and the mod's have surely checked back on me and they too agreed.
I can have any view I like.
Your problem is this - you hate that someone express's an alternative view to you. I know Fianna Fail are largely responsible for the mess this country is in, only a fool would say otherwise. Specifically the parliamentary party, cabinet etc. The majority of which haven't the bottle to face the electorate again and good riddance to them.
DAVID MCGUINNESS has had not hand, act or part but perhaps his running mate cannot say as much. I can think for myself and I am no sheep; I don't need to follow the consensus, narrative or opinion many people have.
PS: I hate RTE but I don't hate Charlie Bird Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. YYYEEEEESSSSSS
Don't have a problem with you at all. You are entitled to have any view you like. The issue I was raising was the sudden rush of support from the new posters. I mentioned you as an exception. I am entitled to my view that you are a bit like don quixote tilting at windmills but off you go.
As for the argument that David McGuinnes is not Brian Lenihan or a cabinet minister and therefore the rest of FF should be let off I would only say this:
Haughey, Burke, Flynn, Reynolds, Ahern, Cooper-Flynn, Lawlor, O'Dea, Cowen, Lenihan (and the father before him), numerous councillors, at what point do we draw the conclusion that it was the party that is responsible for producing these individuals who were either liars, incompetent or corrupt rather than just saying it was only that one or this one and one bad apple. In my opinion, the time has come to say enough of FF and no more letting the party off for the failings of so many of its individual components. Imagine saying that a car has no proper engine, no doors, steering wheel, seats or windows but has a really nice wing mirror so you should buy it. That is the same as saying FF is to blame for destroying the country but you should vote for David McGuinness as he is only young and new.0 -
That is the same as saying FF is to blame for destroying the country but you should vote for David McGuinness as he is only young and new.
It is true, do you not agree that he had no part in this? I mean really?
OK the party are largely responsible for lack of governance and WILL NOT get back in to power of the foreseeable future; that we can both agree on.
Out of the whole of Dublin west we only have really two new candidates in to politics and no one on the radar following them (The new independent maybe another if he is around after the election). We should dismiss one of them so easily unless you have something on him other than the fact he is a member of FF. Being a member of FF is not illegal.
DmcG is not only young and new, but he has an exemplary reputation in Mulhuddart and Corduff without no political dynastic links at-all.
With that last point in mind, you mention (Haughey, Burke, Flynn, Reynolds, Ahern, Cooper-Flynn, Lawlor, O'Dea, Cowen, Lenihan (and the father before him), numerous councillors,)
They have all had the opposite back ground than that of David McGuinness.
In summary: Can a new breed of individual not have a genuine and positive contribution to politics? Must they be prejudged? Could you be wrong?
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If McGuinness is such a good man - what the hell is he doing in FF? Standing for the Party means he must be proud of his party. And how anyone can be proud of the legacy of last 11 years of FF led government is beyond me.
Great question.
Many people asked it. The answer was simple.
In 2008 there was only one opening and that was FF - Independent's in Dublin 15 never have and most likely never will get a foot hold.
FG, Labour and Sinn fein already had candidates and in most case's they had second individuals in place. FF did not when Margaret Richardson retired. This was an opportunity.
Why is this so important? Well, Joe Higgins and Joan Burton were both born in 1949 and will most likely not run in five years time, nor too will BL in my opinion. The two aforementioned have successors lined up in Ruth Coppinger and Patrick Nulty respectively while Dennison is there in case Varadkar decides to become a Doctor again
So, if you want in to politics and you want to be considered for election by the people, this was the strongest option no doubt.
ps: good discussion now thanks god.0 -
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If McGuinness is such a good man - what the hell is he doing in FF? Standing for the Party means he must be proud of his party. And how anyone can be proud of the legacy of last 11 years of FF led government is beyond me.chucknorris wrote: »Great question.
Many people asked it. The answer was simple.
In 2008 there was only one opening and that was FF - Independent's in Dublin 15 never have and most likely never will get a foot hold.
FG, Labour and Sinn fein already had candidates and in most case's they had second individuals in place. FF did not when Margaret Richardson retired. This was an opportunity.
Why is this so important? Well, Joe Higgins and Joan Burton were both born in 1949 and will most likely not run in five years time, nor too will BL in my opinion. The two aforementioned have successors lined up in Ruth Coppinger and Patrick Nulty respectively while Dennison is there in case Varadkar decides to become a Doctor again
So, if you want in to politics and you want to be considered for election by the people, this was the strongest option no doubt.
ps: good discussion now thanks god.
That is a very strange answer to the question.
In effect what you are saying is that if you are in politics to promote yourself you look for where the vacancy is regardless of the policies or ideas.
However, most of those who get involved in politics are there for the ideas or the policies and therefore don't take into consideration who is ahead of them in the line or where the opportunity is. There are plenty of other ways to help the community, the country or your political party of choice if there are already excellent candidates from your party in place in your constituency.
It goes without saying that the person who is in politics to advance themselves is more likely to change with the wind and forget where they came from. Maybe McGuinness is well suited to FF. Remember Bertie Ahern had one aspiration in life - to become Taoiseach. He had no idea or vision of what he wanted to do when he got there. One thing that makes me very wary of those who look like they would run for any party.
P.S. You have probably moved Lenihan ahead of McGuinness in my bottom two preferences now. Lenihan might have been the most incompetent finance minister ever but I think his health problems show he wasn't in politics just for the power or the opportunity to run for office.0 -
(Meanwhile back on planet earth.......)That is a very strange answer to the question.
In effect what you are saying is that if you are in politics to promote yourself you look for where the vacancy is regardless of the policies or ideas (No you said that, I stated it may be as simple as that).
However, most of those who get involved in politics are there for the ideas or the policies and therefore don't take into consideration who is ahead of them in the line or where the opportunity is. There are plenty of other ways to help the community, the country or your political party of choice if there are already excellent candidates from your party in place in your constituency (What if someone simple want's to run for election and put their name forward to the public? Yes there are many ways to contribute but there is also running for election).
It goes without saying that the person who is in politics to advance themselves is more likely to change with the wind and forget where they came from (I doubt he will ever forget he is from Corduff :P). Maybe McGuinness is well suited to FF (maybe maybe's). Remember Bertie Ahern had one aspiration in life - to become Taoiseach. He had no idea or vision of what he wanted to do when he got there (Bertie Ahern was always a creep in my book). One thing that makes me very wary of those who look like they would run for any party (That's your assumption based on my answer and has no basis in fact, however the community voice has it on record as to how he actually got in to politics, you took the hook line and sink).
P.S. You have probably moved Lenihan ahead of McGuinness in my bottom two preferences now. Lenihan might have been the most incompetent finance minister ever but I think his health problems show he wasn't in politics just for the power or the opportunity to run for office.
IN EFFECT in your little head.
Godge you interpret every answer in to your single minded and narrow minded way way of thinking. I simply gave an answer based on logic and not on principal, policy or any other motive.
One of the most effective means that an individual can serve their country is to put them selves forward for election. Perhap dmcg fully supports the policy set out by FF? Listening on Phantom FM today he certainly does subscribe to his party leaders position totally.
Did you read the community voice during the local elections? If so, research on google. You will find dmcg got in to politics whilst working as a volunteer at election time under local and long time councillor Margaret Richardson, but you would not know that because you are ill informed or not informed at all, in fact you must not have paid much attention in the locals at-all, while I did
What I stated in my previous post was my personal opinion from the outside in, keeping in mind I am aligned with no party what so ever.
You on the other hand see the negative in every situation/opportunity. You are a knocker and you will knock anything that does not sit right with you.
Any answer provided to you will result in more questions and more assumptions until it fits your pre-set opinion.
Here is a tip for you that I have recommended to others. Phone the candidate or candidates that you have issue with. It really is that simple.
PEACE OUT. :P XXXXXXX0 -
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WoodVale, Whitestown, Sheepmore and WillowWood have not had any canvasser or candidates so far.
You are wrong about this area as I myself live here and those two have been and so too has Whitechapel. Yes, by DMCG (his girlfirend lives in whitestown).
You must have been out or hiding,
I can tell you too that Donnelly has also covered here.0 -
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tenandtracer wrote: »All we got is David Norris, will that do?
I think the christian solidarity party may take issue with him, but yeah, he'll do 0 -
Kiwi_knock wrote: »Moment of the night has to be the Joan and Joe mix up. Joan showing she has a sense of humour.
All candidates performed reasonably well, felt sorry for the Patrick, David and Kieran for getting left out at the start. Leo looked out in front at the start but really did not push on from there and let the others catch up to him. The independent Clemtine had a good start but then went fairly down hill from there (oil refinery in Dublin). Joe Higgins was typically well spoken without saying very much, always critical. Paul Donnelly comes across well as the man of the people, economics is not his strong point though. Roderic is ok but lacks a bit of personality, he made some valid points though. Lenihan looked tired at the start but gradually came into. Joan was tolerable to listen to and felt she expressed herself well. David and Paddy came into with a lot of energy and did well with only having a minute to speak. Kieran looks out of place and did not really seem that enthusiastic. While David and Patrick can distinguish themselves from their more senior party member, I do not think Kieran tries at all to be any different to Leo. He seems satisfied to be the number 2 candidate.
Was surprised by the quite anti FG feeling in the room, a lot of attacks from the audience and the other candidates used that to their advantage.
A good debate in all, some great questions from the audience. Felt a bit rushed, some of the questions should have got longer responses than 15 seconds. Cleared some things up for me, and feel I have better idea of how I will vote.
He nailed the economics. Donnelly and Higgins both agreed on the economy and both got it right. All the other believe we can actually pay the debt and are forcing us to borrow more to pay it. The main rule of economics is that you can only pay out what you get in. You can not reduce your debt by borrowing more. It's against the very basic of economic rules. Donnelly and Higgins are the only two who apply this rule. The others think that 1.5m workers (many of which are in huge personal debt) can pay hundreds of Billions of Banking debt. Untill Labour, Fine Gael and Fianna Fail accept this rule they will be wrong on every aspect of the economy they care to mention. The fact that they all agree to ignore this rule doesn't make the rule go away.0 -
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This discussion has been closed.
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