Dublin West General Election 2011 [Mod note post #218]

chucknorris

Sharrow wrote: »

honestly such nit picking yet high handed posts are the reason I don't post in the politics forum, is hobbism and soapboxing.

Really they were invovled in the 'youth' parties, for how long? what did they do?
You can make all manner of claims but can you back them up?

Who are you quoting? I never made any claims, I gave opinion and in some case's I gave fact's about age, timing and context.

groovy train

I heard some posters are getting removed whilst other candidates are going up. It looks like the younger candidates are the targets. Somebody i know saw this going on when she was out jogging on Monday night.

Morag

chucknorris wrote: »

Nulty and McGuinness were new to the electoral scene in 09 but were active members in their own youth parties.

This is what I was looking for citations for and more information on.

BostonB

chucknorris wrote: »

...My point is - Why would you, he or anyone for that matter associate ones self with the past if you were not in any way responsible for it or involved in it?

An association with FF is an association with the past. Its being led by someone who is part of the govt for last x years. His running mate is Brian Lennihan. You couldn't be associated closer to the Govt if you tried.

I can't understand that mindset at all. Its like some alternate world you've created to ignore reality. Its the emperors new clothes. Whats amazing is FF will probably fool many people with it.

chucknorris

Sharrow wrote: »

This is what I was looking for citations for and more information on.

Write to them and ask them. I don't know the answer.

Oh, presumably they were at the time of election - both of them advertised that they were but never stated from when!

chucknorris

BostonB wrote: »

I can't understand that mindset at all. Its like some alternate world you've created to ignore reality.

The reality is they were both in school when this c**p started. Everyone has a right to run for election and so so as a party member or independent as they so choose.

In your eyes there will never be a good time for this young man to ever run for FF I presume? So much for democracy and free will.

Neither of them come from the political establishment in terms of community, family, dynasty etc. They are a different breed.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

BostonB wrote: »

How on earth can anyone break from the past. Especially a FF candidate?

Maybe hes got one of those Men In Black mind erasers. He must have, I've never heard of him.

The fact of the matter is that none of the parties can break from the past at this point because the country is in a bad way and they all have to stick to the IMF bail out and make cuts to bring down the deficit. Unless of course you're Sinn Fein, who live in a magical land of make believe as far as economic policy goes.

If you think voting for Labor, FG or anybody else for that matter, is going to magically fix everything, you're wrong. Even if one of the parties had and ingenious plan to do so, they're tied by this years budget until next December, so there will be no change straight away anyway.

As far as the candidates go, and not knowing them, I can honestly say I know nothing about Leo Varadkar despite the fact that he's been an elected representative of this constituency since the last general election, but the only reason I know this is because he seems to spend all his time running between the RTE news room and TV3, where they flash up "Dublin West" under his name every time he's on. Other than that I wouldn't have a clue who he was. It's understandable that the younger first time candidates would be unknown to many, but one of the TD's who's supposed to be representing us is a virtual unknown to me, and I'm sure to many more. Joan Burton may be a bit of a head case at times, no offence Joan, but at least she makes herself known and has a presence in the dail.

I know others said they know Leo and haven't heard of the younger candidates, but common sense tells you that depending on where abouts you live you will know some better than others. Also, there is this magic thing called the internet, you're on it now, where you can look up the candidates and find out about them for yourself, rather than expecting others to do it for you. The boards.ie vote page has a link to them all to make it nice and easy for you.

As far as FF go, I've seen plenty of posts stating that we must not vote for them, but I'm yet to see any valid reasons why I should vote for FG or Labor? Also, I am yet to even see a FG candidate canvass my area, where as FF and Labor have both been around, and it was both their younger candidates.

Just to point out that this wasn't all aimed at the poster I quoted, I was just using your post because you brought up the point about breaking from the past, and about not being aware of the candidates.

groovy train

David MC Guinness would be better going as an independent. But good luck to him and Nulty. They are young and want change. The more young people the better.

BostonB

I think you are missing the point. The past to break from is not the country in crisis. No one can avoid that short of emigrating beyond Europe. The past is the people who made such bad policies as a group. Which is FF. There's no credible reason to believe the culture in FF will change considering its the same people in it. (in the main).

As for candidates profile. All I can say is that, over the years, I've get updates on issues that effect me, from different candidates in the door. Even if this is just forwarding on information, as least it shows they informed and trying to do something. OK some of them are media whores. Some candidates have never done, this, only appearing at election time.

For me DMcG is the latter.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

BostonB wrote: »

I think you are missing the point. The past to break from is not the country in crisis. No one can avoid that short of emigrating beyond Europe. The past is the people who made such bad policies as a group. Which is FF. There's no credible reason to believe the culture in FF will change considering its the same people in it. (in the main).

As for candidates profile. All I can say is that, over the years, I've get updates on issues that effect me, from different candidates in the door. Even if this is just forwarding on information, as least it shows they informed and trying to do something. OK some of them are media whores. Some candidates have never done, this, only appearing at election time.

For me DMcG is the latter.

It's his first time running for election so how would you have heard from him before? He's a county counselor representing a certain area since summer of last year. The fact you've never heard of him would imply you don't live in that area, so there is no reason he should have been anywhere near you before this. As that Irish Times extract points out, the people in the area he represents all know him well. As I'm sure you know whoever represents your area at county council level.

As for FF policies, none of them have been that bad. People are making out like they destroyed the country for the whole time they've been in government. This banking thing was a disaster, we can all agree on that, but glossing over all the good aspects of their time in power with the bank guarantee seems a bit unfair.

I'm trying to keep an open mind and look at which parties policies are the best ones to get us out of this mess as quickly and as painlessly as possible. At the moment FG's plans seem overly harsh on certain areas, areas I'm sure some people won't care about, but they affect me personally and I can't in good conscience vote them into power. Labor I'm yet to make up my mind about, but it seems at the moment that FF have the better policies for going forward.

I completely understand that people want to punish them for what's happening now, but I fear it's a case of cutting off your own nose to spite your face with some people.

godscop

I would never vote FF again. People seem to forget what they have done to this country. FG hammer public servants every time they are in the media. Not every public servant is on a big salary..Joe Higgins ? Never in a million years would i vote for him. Sinn Fein, the less said the better. That leaves Labour, Gilmore is ok and Nulty is the only one to canvass my area.

BostonB

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

./...As for FF policies, none of them have been that bad. People are making out like they destroyed the country for the whole time they've been in government. This banking thing was a disaster, we can all agree on that, but glossing over all the good aspects of their time in power with the bank guarantee seems a bit unfair....

Sorry what. What about the HSE. Lurching form one health crisis to another. The explosion of public sector workers, quangos, with all these buddies, directors, being paid, crazy wages. paying yourself more than the president of the USA, then giving yourself a wage increase while telling people to tighten their belts. Vast amounts spent on decentralization, without it being costed. Building the M50 with no interchanges,m then having to go back and add them. The M50 toll bridge fiasco. The PRTB. Its endless. For every good thing, its destroyed by 10 bad things.

How short are people memories.

BostonB

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

It's his first time running for election so how would you have heard from him before? ....

Other than people here talking about him,. and the odd poster in the area. I've still heard nothing from him. I have no reason to vote for him at all.

chucknorris

godscop wrote: »

I would never vote FF again. People seem to forget what they have done to this country. FG hammer public servants every time they are in the media. Not every public servant is on a big salary..Joe Higgins ? Never in a million years would i vote for him. Sinn Fein, the less said the better. That leaves Labour, Gilmore is ok and Nulty is the only one to canvass my area.

Did you see Varadkar on Vincent Browne last night? Absolute shocker!!!

BostonB

Perhaps you could be more specific. I only saw a snippet he was being very blunt about big tax increases.

Morag

chucknorris wrote: »

Write to them and ask them. I don't know the answer.

Oh, presumably they were at the time of election - both of them advertised that they were but never stated from when!

So you dont' know and are just regurgitating something you read somewhere but cant' link back to?

Morag

They can't break from the past when they have the same party machines behing them and back benchers and suppoters and all rest of the priveleges and encumberances with goes with being a candidate for a large mainstream party.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

BostonB wrote: »

Sorry what. What about the HSE. Lurching form one health crisis to another. The explosion of public sector workers, quangos, with all these buddies, directors, being paid, crazy wages. paying yourself more than the president of the USA, then giving yourself a wage increase while telling people to tighten their belts. Vast amounts spent on decentralization, without it being costed. Building the M50 with no interchanges,m then having to go back and add them. The M50 toll bridge fiasco. The PRTB. Its endless. For every good thing, its destroyed by 10 bad things.

How short are people memories.

Yes of course not everything they did was right, but it's the same for any party in power. The point I was trying to make was that FF will forever be tarnished with the banking crisis, and rightly so, but a lot of people aren't even aware of all those things you mentioned, and a lot of people are going into this with the mantra of "anyone but FF" without actually looking at what these other parties are going to do.

As was pointed out by someone else a few posts ago, FG will destroy the civil service if they get in. Hundreds, probably thousands of people will lose their jobs, which ok will lower the wage bill, but where's all the redundancy money going to come from? And when half of them have to sign on to support themselves, where's that money going to come from, and the younger ones all have to emigrate to find work. It's making three problems out of one.

Anyway, my point remains, I'm seeing lots of reasons why I shouldn't vote FF, but I'm not seeing any reasons why I should vote for anyone else.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Sharrow wrote: »

So you dont' know and are just regurgitating something you read somewhere but cant' link back to?

What exactly is it you want proof of? I'm a bit confused?

I don't think anyone has been throwing around any figures or crazy statements, everything that's been said about all the candidates is readily available on their own websites.

BostonB

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

...a lot of people aren't even aware of all those things you mentioned,...

That seems to be FF tactics alright. Hope people forget, make noise about other things. They have no other choice.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

As was pointed out by someone else a few posts ago, FG will destroy the civil service if they get in. Hundreds, probably thousands of people will lose their jobs, which ok will lower the wage bill, but where's all the redundancy money going to come from? And when half of them have to sign on to support themselves, where's that money going to come from, and the younger ones all have to emigrate to find work. It's making three problems out of one.

Thats going to happen regardless. Theres no money to do anything else.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Anyway, my point remains, I'm seeing lots of reasons why I shouldn't vote FF, but I'm not seeing any reasons why I should vote for anyone else.

I agree with you. Theres no reasons to vote for this time. Only reasons not to. FF doesn't get out of the starting gate under those criteria.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

BostonB wrote: »

That seems to be FF tactics alright. Hope people forget, make noise about other things. They have no other choice.

Thats going to happen regardless. Theres no money to do anything else.

I agree with you. Theres no reasons to vote for this time. Only reasons not to. FF doesn't get out of the starting gate under those criteria.

FG have had it in for the civil service for a long time. They've proven that in the past and are being very vocal about it this time too. None of the other parties have made it one of their main election points like they have. I'd almost go so far as to say they have a vendetta on this matter.

And I didn't once say that FF were making people forget, or hoping people forget. My point is that an awful lot of people in this country pay no attention to politics until something major happens like the banks, and then they get their information from the sensational headlines in the tabloids and never bother to educate themselves on the actual facts of the situation. Everyone is shouting don't vote FF, but for every one that can name another reason other than the banks, there's a much bigger amount that will just regurgitate the headlines from the Evening Herald.

godscop

chucknorris wrote: »

Did you see Varadkar on Vincent Browne last night? Absolute shocker!!!

Yeah i saw Varadkar on Vincent Browne last night. Car crash tv. Delighted he was so bad. Having met him a few times he is so smug and arrogant. I am a publc servant so he wont be getting any vote from me.

chucknorris

godscop wrote: »

Yeah i saw Varadkar on Vincent Browne last night. Car crash tv. Delighted he was so bad. Having met him a few times he is so smug and arrogant. I am a publc servant so he wont be getting any vote from me.

I don't think there is enough time for individuals such as himself to be exposed.

I believe he regards himself as almost statesman like.

godscop

I dont think anyone has a problem with David Mc Guinness the person. I think its to do with Fianna Fail to be honest.

BostonB

gerryhorse wrote: »

...I hate politics but I cannot allow people to knock this young man. He is trying his best and that’s what I want....

I'm not knocking them. I'm pointing out, the politics of the situation. How can I vote for him, when I've heard nothing from him. Perhaps the suggestion is I should vote for people who've done things for my area. I'm not in Mulhuddart, or Corduff. So that kinda rules him out for me then? Not that I think this election should be about local issues.

chucknorris

BostonB wrote: »

I'm not knocking them. I'm pointing out, the politics of the situation. How can I vote for him, when I've heard nothing from him. Perhaps the suggestion is I should vote for people who've done things for my area. I'm not in Mulhuddart, or Corduff. So that kinda rules him out for me then? Not that I think this election should be about local issues.

It's a fair point. I don't know Gerry personally BTW. Well i don't think I do.

I feel it's fair to say the candidate is building up a profile and working hard but Dublinwest is a large area and unless your getting the national coverage like the big four; then you need to help the people on every level you can.
It's good to see some proper discussion here - From all your replies lately it seems everyone and I mean absolutely everyone is P****d off with the establishment.

BostonB

I believe a lot of problems stem from a lack of hard decisions by the Govt. Public sector being a prime example. Obviously a turkey won't vote for Christmas. I don't like Varadkar either, and I can't disagree with the comments about the self serving nature of his appearances. But I do think hard decisions have to be made. I not sure who is able to take them though.

BostonB

I think it comes back to what was said earlier, and I agreed with.

BostonB wrote: »

...
I agree with you. Theres no reasons to vote for this time. Only reasons not to. FF doesn't get out of the starting gate under those criteria.

People are voting for change. Simply that. I think.

chucknorris

I suppose you do what your elected to do. Local or national.

Let's hope the winners on this occasion do what their asked to do. Looking at the media lately it seems their still doing what they have always done. Abuse each other for party political gain. How labour and FG will work together from recent media outings is beyond me.:(

Morag

gerryhorse wrote: »

Yeah I certainly understand your point, but this is an opportunity to support a young man from a working class background regardless of the area, I know him and he is hard working & honest, he needs a chance to make a difference and we need more like him. I'm gonna help give him that chance.

Fair enough but what difference does he intend to make and how?