WW2 themed tours of Poland or Russia

Morlar

Does anyone know of any WW2 battlefield themed tours around Poland or Russia ?

I am referring to battlefield tours primarily more than former camps. Locations such as Radom and Warsaw so on. Or in the case of Russia due to the scale it would probably be either Leningrad (St Petersburg) or Stalingrad (volvograd). Information on any other tour taking in more than one major Russian location would also be welcomed of course.

The information I am looking for does not have to be major operator package tours with travel and accomodation etc (though info on all sorts is welcomed) it could be right down to 'X local Guide in X city does tours on Sunday' sort of thing.

It seems to me there is a massive untapped market out there for this sort of thing but I can't seem to find much information on this.

jonniebgood1

There are battlefield type tours developing in Russia in the last 8-10 years in particular although any I have seen are very overpriced and targeted at a wealthy american audience. If you are searching for these you will usually need to refer to the great patriotic war as opposed to WW2 for a greater chance of success. I have visited some museums and open area parks in Moscow but they are full of memorial statues and large gold plated monuments/ fountains. I tryed unsuccessfully to have tour showing defence of moscow as it was advertised but did not have the finance to justify it on my own while there. I saw a program about modern day Volvograd recently which showed that some of the war damage is still visible in outskirts of that city, presumably left that way purposely. Ideas may come from these links:

http://www.theculturalexperience.com/battlefield_tours/the_great_patriotic_war.php

http://www.infohub.com/vacation_packages/4376.html

http://www.pbase.com/character/image/44097293/original

Morlar

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

There are battlefield type tours developing in Russia in the last 8-10 years in particular although any I have seen are very overpriced and targeted at a wealthy american audience. If you are searching for these you will usually need to refer to the great patriotic war as opposed to WW2 for a greater chance of success. I have visited some museums and open area parks in Moscow but they are full of memorial statues and large gold plated monuments/ fountains. I tryed unsuccessfully to have tour showing defence of moscow as it was advertised but did not have the finance to justify it on my own while there. I saw a program about modern day Volvograd recently which showed that some of the war damage is still visible in outskirts of that city, presumably left that way purposely. Ideas may come from these links:

http://www.theculturalexperience.com/battlefield_tours/the_great_patriotic_war.php

http://www.infohub.com/vacation_packages/4376.html

http://www.pbase.com/character/image/44097293/original

Cheers - I will go through them properly later.

BlaasForRafa

Morlar wrote: »

Cheers - I will go through them properly later.

It would be fascinating to see these battlefields (I plan on going to St. Petersburg this year or next but moreso for the Tsarist era architecture really). What I would be concerned about is whether the tour guides would give an objective view of the battles, especially when they use language like "follow the 'death ride' of the Fourth Panzer Army" which is a misrepresentation of the Battle of Prokhorovka.

Morlar

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

It would be fascinating to see these battlefields (I plan on going to St. Petersburg this year or next but moreso for the Tsarist era architecture really). What I would be concerned about is whether the tour guides would give an objective view of the battles, especially when they use language like "follow the 'death ride' of the Fourth Panzer Army" which is a misrepresentation of the Battle of Prokhorovka.

I'd love to do that too. I am currently researching a photo album from a 102 Reserve Polizei Battalion who fought ALL around leningrad (eventually in Kampfgruppe Jeckeln (inc SS Polizei). There are a lot of pictures of Gratchina and Catherine Palace etc

Here is the blurb I have put togehter so far for that album - though it's not complete yet it does show the locations in the vicinity (the wolchow pictures are pretty incredible - will post them back here when they are ready) :

Reserve Polizei Battalion 102 - Leningrad 1942

Photo album of a man from the Reserve Polizei Battalion 102. This battalion was raised in Hamburg in 1939 and deployed to Poland (I/2, II/2, III/3, later 101, 102, 103), within police group 2, under army high command 10 (AOK 10). Assembled on 1.09.1939 then transported to Poland on 6.09.1939. They were initially posted to Kielce, Tomaszow and Konskie and then by train to Breslau, and from there to Tschenstochau by Hamburg buses. It is said that. 'During this phase of the war the police battalions were active in the repressive measures taken against the civil population, including executions following drumhead court-martials held by the army, the SS or police, in combat against the Polish regular army, the guarding of prisoners of war, the support of units of the SS and SD (SS Security Service), the gathering of weapons, and in the 'resettlement' of the native population ('Umsiedlungsaktionen').' Police Battalion 102 was allegedly involved in the shooting of 'hostages' during the advance on Rawa. This album appears to begin in Slovenia, centring on Zirklach (DE Name) Cerklje na Gorenjskem and Krainburg. On 10th March 1942 Reserve-Polizei-Bataillon 102 reinforced Polizei-Kampfgruppe 'Jeckeln' on 'combat operations' ('Kampfeinsatz') in front of Leningrad. The path to and vicinity of Leningrad is charted by pictures from Oranienbaum, Duderhof, Staryye Medushi, Peterhof (known as Petrodvorets), Tsarkoe Selo, Pushkin, The Catherin Palace (with troops of the Spanish Legion). Krasnogwardeisk, Krasnoje- Selo, Petersburg (Gatchina Imperial Palace), Djetskoje- Selo & 1942 Leningrad. There are many pictures of the aftermath of fighting in the areas around Leningrad from 1942 including downed YAK-3 and many showing the area of the Wolchow front which saw some of the heaviest fighting of the Eastern Front. There are several pictures of destroyed Russian Tanks, German PzKpfw 743(r) tractor and StuG III Ausf.D assault gun, trucks and field guns. This includes several photos showing knocked out German guns surrounded by multiple human skulls of the war dead on the nearby ground. The Wolchow front pictures also show evacuation of civilians and the narrow guage railway in action. There are several pictures of these men in the company of SS men and this Reserve Polizei Battalion was to become SS Polize Regiment 16 in 1943 (Please see furhter notes on the main page which do not fit here for space reasons).

I have also been reading up on this here ;

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70087924&postcount=127

& in a few other books.

jonniebgood1

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

It would be fascinating to see these battlefields (I plan on going to St. Petersburg this year or next but moreso for the Tsarist era architecture really). What I would be concerned about is whether the tour guides would give an objective view of the battles, especially when they use language like "follow the 'death ride' of the Fourth Panzer Army" which is a misrepresentation of the Battle of Prokhorovka.

I think it would be expected to get a tour with a local bias. Given the Russian losses in WW2 it would be difficult to get an un-biased view. My worry would be that you get some type of sanitised, westernised drivel that is aimed at tourists rather than an authentic view. Local bias should be expected, imagine getting a tour of pearl Harbour that shows you the Japanese point of view as well as the American.

130Kph

Given the World Cup in Russia next year, is anyone thinking of going to the tournament and visiting some of the battlefield sites &/or monuments at the same time.

That WC is probably too expensive for me (or a $4,000 WWII tour) although I’d like to visit Stalingrad (Vgd) at some point.

I’m sure an intrepid football fan could visit a selection of the sites or monuments in or near any of the Western/Southern cities with a bit of research and a few words of Russian.

Stovepipe

You would have to be careful going as an individual. You would be open to exploitation. You should look up some of the tour guides that advertise in the UK military media, such as Flypast and Britain at War.At the very least, you'd have to have a Russian native to stop you getting ripped off. One example I heard of was of people visiting Monino, to see the aircraft and the guide tried to charge them a fee to photograph each aircraft. It would have amounted to hundreds of dollars, so they declined and left.