Cowen to issue Statement at 2pm

Brimmy

ArtSmart wrote: »

sigh. so they're voting for a leaderless govt. stop. stop it now.

The government still have a leader. FF don't.

The one man sarcastic clap was brilliant.

Headshot

Eamo coming on newstalk now

Happyman42

ArtSmart wrote: »

sigh. so they're voting for a leaderless govt. stop. stop it now.

sigh.....They will be voting for or against the motion of 'confidence in the government'.
Gormley, Martin, Healy Rae et all will have to vote in favour...whereas if it was a vote of confidence in Cowen that might not necessarily be the case.
Labour ****ed up the motion.

RachaelVO

I have a question for anyone who can answer. He has officially stepped down as leader of FF, but staying on as Taoiseach until the election. How can he do that? I know the election isn't too far away, but surely if in the next week FF elect a new leader he/she (I guess Micheal Martin) will on a technicality be Taoiseach.

I'm a bit confused, if you anyone can help me clear it up I'd appreciate it.

mgmt

Actually he had to step down now. He would have lost the confidance motion on Wednesday and that would have brought down the government.

Biggins

mgmt wrote: »

What a focking insult to this country. Not good enough for FF but good enough for us it seems.

Of course - once again, party first mentality by FF!

Heathen

Brimmy wrote: »

The one man sarcastic clap was brilliant.

haha i enjoyed that alright haha..

This announcement is no magic wand.. country is still bunched.. im still poor..

ArtSmart

Brimmy wrote: »

The government still have a leader. FF don't.

The one man sarcastic clap was brilliant.

anyway, my point is this.

he now has his own people voting confidence in a govt whose leader has no confidence in himself as their leader.

am i the only one who sees the insanity of this?

Biggins

ArtSmart wrote: »

anyway, my point is this.

he now has his own people voting confidence in a govt whose leader has no confidence in himself as their leader.

am i the only one who sees the insanity of this?

Welcome to antiquated methodology of Irish politics.

Judgement Day

gandalf wrote: »

Yikes you are right Cowen is the 2nd worst

Getting carried away with myself here.

What about Haughey?

heybaby

It doesnt matter if what leader FF have now they are staring political oblivion in the face, cannot wait for march 11th.

sceptre

RachaelVO wrote: »

I have a question for anyone who can answer. He has officially stepped down as leader of FF, but staying on as Taoiseach until the election. How can he do that? I know the election isn't too far away, but surely if in the next week FF elect a new leader he/she (I guess Micheal Martin) will on a technicality be Taoiseach.

I'm a bit confused, if you anyone can help me clear it up I'd appreciate it.

They're two separate jobs - one elected by a political party, one elected by the Dáil. Perfectly possible, though unusual, for someone to hold one and not the other - or to resign from one and not the other.

(of course it's perfectly usual for someone to be a party leader and not Taoiseach, mind you - most of the current leaders are in this situation)

ArtSmart

Biggins wrote: »

Welcome to antiquated methodology of Irish politics.

i dont mind the complexity of Irish politics so much, incl the PR voting system, but i think Cowen is putting his own party in a crazy position by hanging on as Taoiseach. big fail

BlaasForRafa

heybaby wrote: »

It doesnt matter if what leader FF have now they are staring political oblivion in the face, cannot wait for march 11th.

Indeed but I hope people won't be more inclined to vote FF because Cowen has gone.

steelcityblues

The TDs who voted in confidence for Cowen only five days ago should be put on the spot by interviewers as to who they voted for, and then let the electorate decide their fate.

mgmt

sceptre wrote: »

They're two separate jobs - one elected by a political party, one elected by the Dáil. Perfectly possible, though unusual, for someone to hold one and not the other - or to resign from one and not the other.

The members of his party don't support him, the people of Ireland don't support him.

ArtSmart

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Indeed but I hope people won't be more inclined to vote FF because Cowen has gone.

some may, hence his resignation,. but not to resign as Taoiseach dont help.

which is grand i suppose in that FF will suffer. but it's craziville.

Kazujo

Never ceases to amaze me how many way's our government can sidestep.

Between Bertie resigning just before everything completely exploded and now Cowen steps down from FF but stay as Taoiseach, does this technically make him an independent?

How does this affect all the no confidence movements which were going to be discussed this week?

koura

Would love to know are the People controlling FF.
I'd say Cowan got a Phone call yesterday to go.
These faceless people are the same ones who were running
the country for the last 12yrs.
I think everybody knows who owns Micael Martin

hinault

RachaelVO wrote: »

I have a question for anyone who can answer. He has officially stepped down as leader of FF, but staying on as Taoiseach until the election. How can he do that? I know the election isn't too far away, but surely if in the next week FF elect a new leader he/she (I guess Micheal Martin) will on a technicality be Taoiseach.

I'm a bit confused, if you anyone can help me clear it up I'd appreciate it.

Taoiseach is elected by the Dail.
FF party leader is elected by the FF political party.

It's an anomaly of the Irish political system that a politician can stand down as a party leader but can retain a separate role as an elected leader of the country.

As others have pointed out though, if he's not good enough to be leader of his political party why should he be deemed good enough to be leader of this country?

Cynical exercise in preserving power for him and his party.

Jayob10

probably a silly simple question but why is he always flanked by that gobsh*te Mary Coughlan and the chief whip??

That image will be definitive of this wild west regime.

ArtSmart

so FG putting no confidence motion in Taoiseach.

inevitable

you've made a big boob Cowen

Biggins

hinault wrote: »

...Cynical exercise in preserving power for him and his party.

As we have seen previously, dragging things out to the last possible moment!

BlaasForRafa

sceptre wrote: »

They're two separate jobs - one elected by a political party, one elected by the Dáil. Perfectly possible, though unusual, for someone to hold one and not the other - or to resign from one and not the other.

(of course it's perfectly usual for someone to be a party leader and not Taoiseach, mind you - most of the current leaders are in this situation)

I think the only Irish precedent was Richard Mulcahy (then leader of FG) stepping aside to let John A. Costello become Taoiseach in 1948 due to Mulcahy being unacceptable to the more strident republican parts of that coalition. Very different circumstances of course but close enough.

Happyman42

Artsmart....breaking news....FG see the difference in 'Taoiseach' and 'Government'.

*Fine Gael to propose vote of No Confidence in Taoiseach

hinault

ArtSmart wrote: »

so FG putting no confidence motion in Taoiseach.

inevitable

you've made a big boob Cowen

Exactly.

Cowen is not good enough to lead FF but he's good enough to lead this country?:rolleyes:

Feck them : he should have resigned as Taoiseach months ago.

sceptre

mgmt wrote: »

The members of his party don't support him, the people of Ireland don't support him.

Sure, but that's beside the point on the separate and electoral procedural nature of the two positions (or in other words, how one can hold one and not the other).

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I think the only Irish precedent was Richard Mulcahy (then leader of FG) stepping aside to let John A. Costello become Taoiseach in 1948 due to Mulcahy being unacceptable to the more strident republican parts of that coalition. Very different circumstances of course but close enough.

Indeed. They also did the same thing in 1954. However, if you look back a bit you'll find a few people who resigned as party leader on day 1 and stayed on as Taoiseach for a short period in between a new party leader being elected and the Dáil convening to elect a new Taoiseach - which in this case will obviously happen after the GE (which makes it slightly different again but not massively so).

Di0genes

Cowen is the only man who would fail the IQ test for being a zombie.

hinault

Biggins wrote: »

As we have seen previously, dragging things out to the last possible moment!

Party before country, don't you know.

I hope people will remember all of these FF shenanigans when voting on 11th March 2011.

lugha

hinault wrote: »

Taoiseach is elected by the Dail.
FF party leader is elected by the FF political party.

It's an anomaly of the Irish political system that a politician can stand down as a party leader but can retain a separate role as an elected leader of the country.

As others have pointed out though, if he's not good enough to be leader of his political party why should he be deemed good enough to be leader of this country?

There is no obvious reason why the leader of a party should necessarily take the highest public office once elected. Both Sinn Fein and the SDLP in the North offered somebody other than party leader as deputy first minister in the past.
And there is a flawed logic in arguing, that to be deficient in one job does not mean that they are deficient in another. They are entirely different jobs with mandates from different cohorts. Party leader requires the confidence of the parliamentary party. Being Taoiseach requires the confidence of the electorate. Cowen lost the former only in the last few days, he lost the latter a long time ago.